Proffo Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Earlier today I was having a think about how to get 16.8 million colour animation without flicker. Similarly, some users may notice flicker in some combination of effects. While reducing flicker is possible, this would have impacted the keyboard response time. Performance is top priority at Corsair and we made the decision to keep the advance lighting options available despite some side effects. I don't think that the ARM CPU in these keyboards costs a lot (just a few $ ?). So why not use two of them ? One for the LED lighting, and one for looking after the key presses. Obviously it will need modification of the PCB layout and re-writing of the firmware, but it might do the trick. Take your time Corsair, get it right, then make it available. And when it becomes available, offer existing Kxx RGB owners a decent part exchange deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terabyte Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Can't say I agree with that. The Steam/USB compatibility issue was massive and affected a lot of people. While those who bought this keyboard for 16.8M deserve a refund if they want it, I suspect that the number of people truly bothered by that are small and as long as they have an RGB keyboard with hundreds of colors that doesn't lock up on them repeatedly they will be very happy. Not really, we can't know how many peoples were actually affected unlike Corsair. On a forum you'll always see a larger majority of people complaining about issues than those who are using it without. Taking the complains on a forum as indicator is the worst point of comparison you can use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riekopo Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Yes, owners of RGB keyboards should definitely be offered a free exchange or large discount on the next (working) version of the RGB keyboards. Owners of this keyboard need to be compensated and rewarded for sticking with Corsair through this disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goomonster3 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 It's a good idea but I think they should just reduce the color count from 16.8 million to something less / optimize their code to work with 16.8 million colors... I don't want to have to spend more money for something I expected in the first place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee Corsair James Posted April 27, 2015 Corsair Employee Share Posted April 27, 2015 Earlier today I was having a think about how to get 16.8 million colour animation without flicker. I don't think that the ARM CPU in these keyboards costs a lot (just a few $ ?). So why not use two of them ? One for the LED lighting, and one for looking after the key presses. Obviously it will need modification of the PCB layout and re-writing of the firmware, but it might do the trick. Take your time Corsair, get it right, then make it available. And when it becomes available, offer existing Kxx RGB owners a decent part exchange deal. Its not the ARM CPU that's the limiting factor. It is the LED controller and there is more than one in the keyboard. @goon, this is an ideal solution but unfortunately not how the hardware works. This isn't like a CPU where you reduce the clock speed to reduce thermal load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delslow Posted April 27, 2015 Author Share Posted April 27, 2015 Not really, we can't know how many peoples were actually affected unlike Corsair. On a forum you'll always see a larger majority of people complaining about issues than those who are using it without. Taking the complains on a forum as indicator is the worst point of comparison you can use. /Quitely mumbles to himself as he prepares to return his K70. (pulling out my translucent keys and putting the Corsair ones back) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jong Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Not really, we can't know how many peoples were actually affected unlike Corsair. On a forum you'll always see a larger majority of people complaining about issues than those who are using it without. Taking the complains on a forum as indicator is the worst point of comparison you can use. Not quite sure what point you are making or what point you thought I was making! But mine was simply I think the USB rework, also included in the last update, was very important regardless of how effective the 16M fix turned out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terabyte Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Not quite sure what point you are making or what point you thought I was making! But mine was simply I think the USB rework, also included in the last update, was very important regardless of how effective the 16M fix turned out to be. I was referring to the first piece, I forgot to bold it: Can't say I agree with that. The Steam/USB compatibility issue was massive and affected a lot of people. We (forum users) can't really know exactly how many people were affected by it out of the total of keyboards sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proffo Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Its not the ARM CPU that's the limiting factor. It is the LED controller and there is more than one in the keyboard. You did state that reducing flicker is possible, but it would impact the reponse time of the keyboard. I therefore thought that giving the lighting it's own CPU would reduce, if not eliminate the flicker. Time to start looking for better LED controllers then ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proffo Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 It's a good idea but I think they should just reduce the color count from 16.8 million to something less / optimize their code to work with 16.8 million colors... I don't want to have to spend more money for something I expected in the first place! I doubt reducing the colour count will help much, I think that's already been mentioned. I don't want to sound like zheren :laughing:, but if you're not happy, request a refund and wait to see if something better becomes available in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimE11 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 What I would like to know is, what response time are we talking about here really. Would it be so bad that the keyboard becomes unusable or is the impact on the response time so small, that most users wouldn`t even care about unless when they are using the keyboard for gaming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proffo Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 What I would like to know is, what response time are we talking about here really. Would it be so bad that the keyboard becomes unusable or is the impact on the response time so small, that most users wouldn`t even care about unless when they are using the keyboard for gaming? I assumed that the CPU is struggling to cope with the load of getting the LED drivers to display 16.8million colours, and to scan for and deal with key presses. Both things must be fairly processor intensive, especially at the same time. That's why I thought that having 2 CPUs, one for each task, might be a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimE11 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 That is how I understand it aswell... in its current condition, we cannot have the best of both worlds, one side will always have to give. My question just is, how many miliseconds would the delay really be in that case? If we are talking about magnitudes that are still below 50 or even 100ms, would that be really so bad in scenarios where you are not reliant on ultra fast key response? I would like a real statement from somebody at corsair or somebody who knows about the hardware and software aspects of the keyboard, how many miliseconds the delay really would be, if we could exchange it for 16,8 mil colours with fluid animations. I just don`t know enough about these things, to understand in what magnitude we are talking about, regarding a statement like "less responsive". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee Corsair James Posted April 27, 2015 Corsair Employee Share Posted April 27, 2015 That is how I understand it aswell... in its current condition, we cannot have the best of both worlds, one side will always have to give. My question just is, how many miliseconds would the delay really be in that case? If we are talking about magnitudes that are still below 50 or even 100ms, would that be really so bad in scenarios where you are not reliant on ultra fast key response? I would like a real statement from somebody at corsair or somebody who knows about the hardware and software aspects of the keyboard, how many miliseconds the delay really would be, if we could exchange it for 16,8 mil colours with fluid animations. I just don`t know enough about these things, to understand in what magnitude we are talking about, regarding a statement like "less responsive". Going into the nitty gritty detail won't help you understand anymore than now honestly. For what it is worth, it's not a 1:1 tradeoff where lowering response time of a keyboard decreases the amount of flicker. Its a balance between all the components in the hardware working together as the data is constantly being streamed from the software to the keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proffo Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Its not the ARM CPU that's the limiting factor. It is the LED controller and there is more than one in the keyboard. If the LED controllers are the cause of flicker (no matter how much CPU power you've go to control them - I suggested using two CPUs to split the workload), then reducing the load on the single CPU by reducing responsiveness is not going to cure the flicker. Probably ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proffo Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 OK. Intel i5 CPU, 4GB RAM, R290X (or a GTX980), and an LCD display under transparent keys. :D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimE11 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Yes I red that post aswell and understand the issue with the led controllers. What I`m wondering about is the statement: "While reducing flicker is possible, this would have impacted the keyboard response time". To me this means that they found a way to make it better while internally testing, but they could not live with the decrease in response time, according to their own standards. I would just like to know more details about this solution where the keys would be less responsive. How bad it would really be, maybe most of us could totally live with that solution and use it while doing casual things with the keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proffo Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I would just like to know more details about this solution where the keys would be less responsive. How bad it would really be, maybe most of us could totally live with that solution and use it while doing casual things with the keyboard. I think Corsair engineers know the limitations of the hardware, and from what James is telling us, there's no way they can eliminate the flicker. We have to accept that. In a way, it's quite impressive what they've achieved in getting 16.8 million colours out of hardware that's obviously lacking. What's not so impressive is that they chose this hardware in the first place, and didn't realise it's limitations before putting into the "final" product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jong Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I think Corsair engineers know the limitations of the hardware, and from what James is telling us, there's no way they can eliminate the flicker. We have to accept that.Yep! It was worth checking that Jucko had not thought of something Corsair had missed, but clearly that's not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jong Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I was referring to the first piece, I forgot to bold it: We (forum users) can't really know exactly how many people were affected by it out of the total of keyboards sold.Ah! I think I know where the confusion crept in. zheren's post crossed with mine, I was talking to Morris, but didn't quote him - sorry zheren! I've updated my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remilton Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I like the current Corsair RGB keyboards even with their limitations. However I am not willing to spend another $200 in a year or so for the improved model. So, my K95 is going back today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delslow Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 I like the current Corsair RGB keyboards even with their limitations. However I am not willing to spend another $200 in a year or so for the improved model. So, my K95 is going back today. I've been trying, but their RMA system is slow/weird. I filled out some forms, and then the CS rep came back with "we fixed it on friday" and I responded with "no, you didn't." Haven't heard back from him since. /sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remilton Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I've been trying, but their RMA system is slow/weird. I filled out some forms, and then the CS rep came back with "we fixed it on friday" and I responded with "no, you didn't." Haven't heard back from him since. /sigh Sounds like their CSR's may be reluctant to issue a refund, but I am sure if you press them you will get it. After all, you have it in print on the forum that they have promised satisfaction or a full refund. Mine is going back to Amazon on an exception so I'll avoid the runaround. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee Corsair James Posted April 29, 2015 Corsair Employee Share Posted April 29, 2015 I've been trying, but their RMA system is slow/weird. I filled out some forms, and then the CS rep came back with "we fixed it on friday" and I responded with "no, you didn't." Haven't heard back from him since. /sigh Im checking the inbox and I see all emails have been replied to as of 4:00pm, the latest email. PM me your email address and I'll look for yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Technobeard Posted April 29, 2015 Administrators Share Posted April 29, 2015 I've been trying, but their RMA system is slow/weird. I filled out some forms, and then the CS rep came back with "we fixed it on friday" and I responded with "no, you didn't." Haven't heard back from him since. /sighIm checking the inbox and I see all emails have been replied to as of 4:00pm, the latest email. PM me your email address and I'll look for yours. James - he has a ticket. delsow - They responded to your ticket 30 min after your latest comment to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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