DerekT Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 I's cross hardware posts like this that make me think about bringing back the houseofmobos.com though :) Hmm... Now that's a great idea there Wired.... :biggrin: Now we just have to move you from the thinking state --> planning stage --> implementation stage :D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drezn Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Hmm... Now that's a great idea there Wired.... :biggrin: Now we just have to move you from the thinking state --> planning stage --> implementation stage :D: I second that motion :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingRoLo Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I'm willing to help all I can regardless of the DRAM manufacturer. As long as you do not post manufacturers it doesn't matter. Keep in mind that the testing and packaging and programming of chips is the realm of the companies but often not the actual IC maker. So, Micron chips and their designation can be used at any time. D9GMH for example, or D9GCT, etc. I have found it far easier to just remove the issue of 4 X 1024 and move to 2 X 2048 and doubly so with the dramatic drop in DRAM prices. I would try the drop as you have KingRoLo. Drop to 889, increase your MCH Voltage +0.5 volts. If you have Messenger, I can very likely help you test and see if this is a viable solution or if an FSB <--> MCH upclock will work. Thanks, Derek. If you could pm me your MSN i'll see if you're about tommorrow if thats ok, i would very much appreciate your help if poss. The reason I chose 4Gb is because i use my PC for work as i am a freelance designer and use memory and CPU intensive programs like Studio Max and After effects in tandem as well as video editing work. and because of this I absolutely must have a 100% stable PC. If you are 100% sure its a 4Gb specific problem then i can live without the other two but i am very annoyied and don't know when i can actually use all 4 DIMMS again. By the time i decide to upgrade my system again i suspect 1066 DDR2 would be old hat and i will have to start all over again anyway, which makes me wonder why i bought 4Gb in the first place. As of now it appears that it was a total waste of money. And 2ndly i bought that other makers 8500 RAM specifically because its rated to go much higher than 1066 and so i bought this configuration with the intention of overclocking from 2.4 to at least 2.8 and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 PM sent. We'll see what we can do. Certainly stability is primary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drezn Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I hope you post the results, I'll be curious ;): Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drezn Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I hope you post the results, I'll be curious ;): Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wired Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Hmm... Now that's a great idea there Wired.... :biggrin: Now we just have to move you from the thinking state --> planning stage --> implementation stage :D:I second that motion :biggrin: Wouldn't be hard, the DB still exists, just have to update the vBulletin license and see who wants to mod it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wired Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Hmm... Now that's a great idea there Wired.... :biggrin: Now we just have to move you from the thinking state --> planning stage --> implementation stage :D:I second that motion :biggrin: Wouldn't be hard, the DB still exists, just have to update the vBulletin license and see who wants to mod it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingRoLo Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Why did it get closed in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingRoLo Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Why did it get closed in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohntechUSA Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 There was no traffic as I remember and we all had other duties so we merged it with another site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lester Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 ... Asus P5K mobo and 2x Corsair TWIN2X 6400 DDR2 1024Mb memory modules (total 4Gb). My problem is that i get a lot of errors in Memtest86 if i run with default BIOS settings. I also tried changing timing and voltage to get the system stable, but the only thing that works seems to be to set the DRAM frequency to 667MHz... I too have the same configuration and same problem. I've read all the other 40 some posts and have just a little more information to add. I had followed the recommendations of another site to narrow down the problem by swapping out sticks. Each stick works perfectly alone, and in pairs. Memtest86+ only gives errors when all 4 are inserted (and stock auto MOBO settings). I thought maybe mixing sticks from different "runs" could be a problem, so I paired them up by serial number so that banks were filled with matched pairs (if there is such a thing). Still breaks with 4 inserted. So, I tested each pair in a different bank (A1B1 then A2B2). With 2, no problem; with 4, I get errors. BUT, here the errors definitely changed in nature. When swapping pairs between banks, the errors seem to show up earlier (lower memory and during test#3). The other way, errors show up above 2G and in Test #4 or later. Taking the advice of others in the forum, I have set my 800 memory speed to 667 and what was failing quickly before is now running fine. But, should I consider sending in the low bank (A1B1) of sticks under warranty given the results of my swapping sticks between banks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lester Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 ... Asus P5K mobo and 2x Corsair TWIN2X 6400 DDR2 1024Mb memory modules (total 4Gb). My problem is that i get a lot of errors in Memtest86 if i run with default BIOS settings. I also tried changing timing and voltage to get the system stable, but the only thing that works seems to be to set the DRAM frequency to 667MHz... I too have the same configuration and same problem. I've read all the other 40 some posts and have just a little more information to add. I had followed the recommendations of another site to narrow down the problem by swapping out sticks. Each stick works perfectly alone, and in pairs. Memtest86+ only gives errors when all 4 are inserted (and stock auto MOBO settings). I thought maybe mixing sticks from different "runs" could be a problem, so I paired them up by serial number so that banks were filled with matched pairs (if there is such a thing). Still breaks with 4 inserted. So, I tested each pair in a different bank (A1B1 then A2B2). With 2, no problem; with 4, I get errors. BUT, here the errors definitely changed in nature. When swapping pairs between banks, the errors seem to show up earlier (lower memory and during test#3). The other way, errors show up above 2G and in Test #4 or later. Taking the advice of others in the forum, I have set my 800 memory speed to 667 and what was failing quickly before is now running fine. But, should I consider sending in the low bank (A1B1) of sticks under warranty given the results of my swapping sticks between banks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lester Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Here's a follow-up. I just checked ASUS QVL list for the P5K Mobo. It says that they've verified CM2X1024-6400C4 with both banks filled. My sticks say CM2X1024-6400. What does the C4 mean and should that matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lester Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Here's a follow-up. I just checked ASUS QVL list for the P5K Mobo. It says that they've verified CM2X1024-6400C4 with both banks filled. My sticks say CM2X1024-6400. What does the C4 mean and should that matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drezn Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Taking the advice of others in the forum, I have set my 800 memory speed to 667 and what was failing quickly before is now running fine. But, should I consider sending in the low bank (A1B1) of sticks under warranty given the results of my swapping sticks between banks? Have you read through the thread here? It's not the memory at fault, it's a chipset issue that Asus neglects to tell us about. Exchanging the modules for other ones wouldn't help you any I'm afraid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drezn Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Taking the advice of others in the forum, I have set my 800 memory speed to 667 and what was failing quickly before is now running fine. But, should I consider sending in the low bank (A1B1) of sticks under warranty given the results of my swapping sticks between banks? Have you read through the thread here? It's not the memory at fault, it's a chipset issue that Asus neglects to tell us about. Exchanging the modules for other ones wouldn't help you any I'm afraid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee RAM GUY Posted October 18, 2007 Corsair Employee Share Posted October 18, 2007 Please start you own thread and list the complete system configuration and the exact settings you have set in the MB BIOS. However, with 4 modules you may have to set the memory frequency at DDR667 and setting the NB/MCH Voltage to +.05 Volts would be suggested as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee RAM GUY Posted October 18, 2007 Corsair Employee Share Posted October 18, 2007 Please start you own thread and list the complete system configuration and the exact settings you have set in the MB BIOS. However, with 4 modules you may have to set the memory frequency at DDR667 and setting the NB/MCH Voltage to +.05 Volts would be suggested as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lester Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Have you read through the thread here? It's not the memory at fault, it's a chipset issue that Asus neglects to tell us about. Exchanging the modules for other ones wouldn't help you any I'm afraid... Yes, I read all posts on this thread. I'd like to add to the knowledge base that swapping pairs of sticks between the two banks significantly changes the behavior of the error, but I get errors in either case. Yes, lowering frequency to 667 allows all 4 (800s) to work without error. ASUS does not say 4 800s will not work (or requires bios tweaks to work). On the contrary, they have a long QVL of those 800s by Corsair and others that DO work. Their QVL (qualified vendor list?) has CM2X1024-6400C4 on the list but not the CM2X1024-6400 (which is what I have). Would someone post and say that they have the CM2X1024-6400C4 sticks and whether or not it works on their ASUS P5K MOBO? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lester Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Please start you own thread and list the complete system configuration and the exact settings you have set in the MB BIOS. However, with 4 modules you may have to set the memory frequency at DDR667 and setting the NB/MCH Voltage to +.05 Volts would be suggested as well. I can do that, but my system looks amazingly similar to the system that the originator of the thread posted. I have the ASUS P5K Mobo, Intel Q6600 processor, 4 1G memory sticks (CM2X1024-6400), a couple SATA II 500G, an ATA 120G, a SATA II DVD, an ATA DVD, GeForce FX 8600 G-card, Linksys 100Tx pci lan card, 700w p/s. Errors occur with AI set to Auto. Goes away with AI set to N.O.S. and mem speed set to 667. Error occur above 2G or below 2G based upon swapping sticks between matched banks. Do I need to start a new thread for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Do I need to start a new thread for this? Yes, the issue is that the OP might get his own issue lost in his own created thread. You can create a thread of your own and link to this one if you wish. This way both posters can be individually worked with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drezn Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 ASUS does not say 4 800s will not work (or requires bios tweaks to work). On the contrary, they have a long QVL of those 800s by Corsair and others that DO work. Their QVL (qualified vendor list?) has CM2X1024-6400C4 on the list but not the CM2X1024-6400 (which is what I have). I seriously doubt having the C4's instead of the regular C5's would change anything. I have the C5's too. This is exactly what I'm objecting to. False advertising, or at the very least a complete misguiding of your customers when you say that your board runs at 800 and even 1067 mhz, without mentioning that it only applies when you don't use all four RAM banks. It's interesting how you're saying there's a definite change in behavior when you swap the modules around. All my three identical systems have been running completely identical, so I haven't messed around with swapping modules around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Without mentioning that it only applies when you don't use all four RAM banks. I agree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1z Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Hi, just interested... I'm on a 680i based board and got similar issues, as a lot of people do. This thread also identified the combination of 4 banks populated to be problematic with today's latest DDR2 memory controllers. No matter if its Intel or Nvidia based... is there any other alternative? What bothers me with all these 4 dimm related problems... for some people, it just works fine out of the box. (At least with actual BIOS releases and later board revisions) For other people, it only works while running eg. 800Mhz rated dual channel memory at 667mhz. For some people, like me, it works even at stock speeds (800Mhz) for a couple of days and suddenly stability problems occur, like DerekT mentioned. It's a try it - fix it game.. For others it doesn't work at all. Most of the posts you read on the net are just plain dumb, so you have to sort out really hard. (They are more related to software / bad drivers / operating system / wrong overclocking than hardware faults at all. And who cares if Windows has a BSOD, I don't think you can precisely identify any hardware located defunct with any OS and 50 drivers loaded. Like the memtest86+ people wrote in their docs, there's no way around booting a specific test system for just one specific task. And even then.. you're at the hardware level again with so many variants and layouts and possible errors, you'd have to own a whole lab to work through and test every single component on its own...) So I don't even know how I can classify most of the people / comments / posts out there. If you are an Overclocker and like to play around.. then join this game. But there are others out there who'd like / need to work on such a higher end system and aim for stability AND performance. Seems like this is not even possible today with the best and even priciest hardware available. Sort of lost the point here... finding qualified posts with technical background on this topic will cost you some days and at the end is someone realistic who's into this like DerekT.. and just says - forget it. Best example for this are memory subtimings like trrd, tr, twr, twtr, tref, trd, trfc... Ask the posters how they got their values and most of them just say its a trial and error game. I've searched for hours on sites that are trying to reengineer today's bioses / modify them to find out how all the Auto settings are calculated based on the system configuration the BIOS boots up... and came up with some things like trc=tras+trp and trfc=trc+3 and such - all based on the SPD timings read out. However, this are just starting points. You can't tell me there are people out there without real technical knowledge that put in some numbers and find a combination out of 30 settings with 10 possible values each and... whatever, this would be like winning the lottery. So leaving most of the settings on Auto seems to be a more realistic way to get it running since the engineers of the PCB and BIOS should know what they do and the BIOS should be able to react to different configurations by itself. Example: In a BIOS Changelog they write enhanced memory compatibility. What changes is eg. the BIOS sets Vdimm to 1,85 if 2 banks are populated and to 2,1V if 4 banks are populated. At least this is what the normal user can see. I'm sure there are other intern changes to react on specific timing combinations, density and so on. So the point of this is, if the engineers of a BIOS of a company with >10 years of experience are unable to get a system running stable with 1year old memory and an one year old PCB, I don't think there's a way for the end-user to do it "just by playing around with some settings". They are into it, they've designed it. So IMHO the limitations still existant are not related to the board designers anymore (there were so many BIOS versions and revisions), but directly related to chipset limtations. And theres not much the end-user nor the MB maker can do about it. My friend bought and built the exact same system after I got him all tech horny talking about it, and for him it seems to be working without a hitch. I'll try sticking my modules in his machine to see how they perform in memtest86. This is such a posting giving me some positive outlook, however I'm not sure if I can take it as valid. Did your friend test it with memtest86+ v1.70 for several passes after warm and cold starts? Did you try sticking your modules in and running memtest on them? I'd be interested if thats for real or if your friend is just another user who has actually never used more than 1/3 of his memory and then says its working stable..? (Sorry I really don't want to be offensive !) And even that is not a true indicator of "is it working stable".. I've even experienced this phenomen by myself! I had my system running memtest86+ with all 4 banks populated for around 16 hours with no errors at all! Then I waited around 8 hours and ran it again (cold start) and even then after another night no errors at all. 3 days after this stress test... I suddenly had a kernel oops which doesn't say nothing at first. It could be the buggy Nvidia graphics driver or whatever. So I've started memtest86+ again and was not yet in the BIOS anymore - guess what? Errors all over the place and I'm still in this situation. Now after it did run and tested out stable for several days I'm not 100% sure anymore if its just chipset related since initially I did not have this 2 bank * 800mhz limitation. Now it could also be wrong PCB design with a bad component anywhere. So... after days of reading, I'm not really more into it than I was before. I'm not the typical gaming end-user, I do have some good knowledge and am an IT professional. But this is just wicked... not even some experienced friends which are working with this hardware day for day were able to say me whats causing this precisely. The 20 forum accounts around the world I've just made to find a solution will certainly help feeding my spam filter :D: Now I'm waiting for Drezn's reply to see if there are lottery-style boards out there... Doubt it. Seems like the best way is to use 2*2GB, sell the second pair and buy a solid state disk to swap on it... or switch the platform.. :sigh!: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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