Drezn Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 I would just let us replace what you have and go from there but we cannot change to another part# sorry. And there should not be any problems with these modules and this MB, I would check for the latest BIOS for you MB to be sure its not a BIOS issue and or test them in another MB to be sure. I am running the latest BIOS (0603), hoping for a new one to come out. I'm afraid I can't agree with you on the no problems with these modules and this motherboard statement. I have three of these systems built, and they're all showing the same symptoms. Also, the OP for this post seems to have the same problem, I wish he'd report back to tell us if he'd gotten it resolved though... I'm pretty convinced these modules will work in another motherboard, I can't believe that I have six faulty modules that run fine two at a time, but not four at a time. Hardware incompatibility I'd say. My friend bought and built the exact same system after I got him all tech horny talking about it, and for him it seems to be working without a hitch. I'll try sticking my modules in his machine to see how they perform in memtest86. Oh, and I found out we both have version 5.5 modules, so that's definately not it. Sorry about that little mixup. I'll be back here to post when a solution presents itself, regardless of people's interest ;) Once again, thanks a lot for all the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drezn Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Oh, just re-read your post and realized I might have missed something... Are you offering an exchange of the modules or am I misunderstanding you? If you are, I'd like to test them in my friends machine first to decrease the risk of ending up in the same situation with the exchanged modules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee RAM GUY Posted October 3, 2007 Corsair Employee Share Posted October 3, 2007 Yes I am suggesting that we replace the modules and go from there and I agree if you can test them in a known working system that would help isolate that from your System's. And you made a statement that you had three of these systems all showing problems, that too would suggest there might be some other issue not a memory problem. Can you tell me the complete system configuration for all three systems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drezn Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I'll have an opportunity to test them in my friends identical machine this weekend, I'll be able to report back my findings after that. The complete system specs are as follows: Asus P5K motherboard Q6600 2.4Ghz Core 2 Quad 4x1GB Corsair XMS2 DDR2 (TWIN2X2048-6400 version 5.5) MSI 8800GTS - 640MB (NX8800GTS-T2D640E-HD-OC) Seagate 7200.10 8MB cache - 320GB Corsair HX520W PSU To my mind, the components are all pretty much top quality. Problem put simply is that the machines are unstable at DDR2-800 even with a voltage as high as 2.2 and a north bridge voltage of 1.4, and seem to run fine at DDR2-667 with a voltage of 2.1. My friends system is the exact same as the above, apart from the graphics card which is a Sparkle GTS 640 MB. I can test in memtest86 with my graphics card in his machine this weekend too, not sure if memory addresses and ranges can be affected by graphics cards with identical memory sizes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Very likely replaced modules will not allow you to run your 4 X 1024 @ 800MHz modules with 800MHz speeds. Yes, your friend either got lucky or his system will sooner or later show instability. You are expecting that which is not usual. Good luck in your hunt to run 4 X 800MHz DRAM modules at 800Mhz speeds with complete stability on your system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drezn Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Very likely replaced modules will not allow you to run your 4 X 1024 @ 800MHz modules with 800MHz speeds. Which is why there's no point in considering replacing the modules before I've had the chance to test them on my friend's system. Yes, your friend either got lucky or his system will sooner or later show instability. You are expecting that which is not usual. I am expecting that which is promised on the motherboard box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I am expecting that which is promised on the motherboard box. Please show where any motherboard box shows support for all four DRAM banks populated to the maximum of the DRAM modules speed. The support is for 2 banks filled at the maximum DRAM modules speed. Failing my first request, please show where any documentation/website states support for any motherboard whereby the board is capable and supportive of all four banks filled to the maximum of the DRAM's stated speed capacity. Contact your motherboard manufacturer and see what they have to say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drezn Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Please show where any motherboard box shows support for all four DRAM banks populated to the maximum of the DRAM modules speed. The support is for 2 banks filled at the maximum DRAM modules speed. Failing that, please show where any documentation for any motherboard states that the board is capable and supportive of all four banks filled to the maximum of the DRAM's stated speed capacity. Please show me where it says that four modules at the full stated speed aren't an option. I haven't seen that anywhere. I'm saying "on the box" as a general term for what's in the marketing speak, it says DDR2-800, and even DDR2-1067. It doesn't say "DDR2-800, but only for a limited amount of modules". It's not in the manual I had handy here at least... If you know where it does state a limitation, can you please show me? That would help as I've obviously missed it then. I'm not being sarcastic either, I'm just afraid of getting into a pointless argument as is so easy on discussion boards. I'm very sorry if I'm reading you wrong and offending you mate, but I can't really tell from your tone if you're being constructive or fishing for an argument... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I'm certainly not looking for an argument. Look to my previous posts and see if I am argumentative. The issue here is that although the mainboard manufacturers state support for a certain DRAM speed, they do not support any and all configurations. No company does and you seem to expect that this support. I agreed with you previously that it is somewhat implied by the nature of the statement of support, but it is not written as such. Some do make that DRAM population and configuration with tweaking. The issue is the chipset, not the DRAM. You stated previously that the version must be the issue. This is NOT the issue. The issue is that the chipset can not normally run to the full speed of the dram (when 4 banks are populated) as it can when two banks are populated. There is twice as many dram IC modules so the memory controller (not the DRAM) must slow down to await refresh cycle times and the door often closes for refresh while DRAM data is being accessed and in the process of transfer. This will bring about errors and Memtest will show the errors even if they are minimal enough so that the OS's Error Correction Code deals with them. There are, of course, exceptions. Nvidia has a chipset that is more forgiving and upclocks itself a bit to allow this possibility, not always but more often than the less than forgiving Intel chipsets. I will just bow out of this thread since I am not here to create dissension or arguments. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drezn Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I'm certainly not looking for an argument. Look to my previous posts and see if I am argumentative. I will just bow out of this thread since I am not here to create dissension or arguments. Good luck! Phew, so glad to hear that. I sincerely apologize mate, it was just the last two messages that seemed to me to have changed in tone compared to the earlier ones. It turns out I was wrong, and I'm happy for that since you've provided me with so much good feedback! No need to bow out of the thread now that we've established who was misreading the situation and getting scared of things getting out of hand, at least not unless you've made up your mind already... About the memory, I do get what you're saying completely. I believe you to be right about the chipset having problems in my sort of configuration, and my being miffed about that fact being kept under wraps has nothing to do with it. The reason I'm not done with this is that first of all RAM GUY isn't saying that running four modules at 800 isn't intended to work, and secondly my mate's machine is running fine. About my mate's machine, there's no telling what will turn up when I go testing it this weekend. I will of course begin with testing if his machine is indeed stable, and then I'll see how it does with my modules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aarbie Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Andreas I have bene through the same pains as you. just to confirm, your part number is:CM2X1024-6400 G? The advised me on both the P5K board and RAM config (http://www.scan.co.uk) and are refusing to take back the redundant pair of 1GB modules. I am left with a matched pair of modules I cannot use ;o( RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drezn Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 I've come across a beta BIOS version 0701, the latest official one is 0603. This beta works wonders for the stability, although it doesn't eliminate the need for more voltage when attempting to run at DDR2-800. At DDR2-667 though, there's no need to change anything at all apart from manually setting the speed so the board doesn't auto-detect the memory as DDR2-800. Before the BIOS update, a lot of voltage tweaking on the memory modules, the north bridge, and the FSB termination was required. Even with that done, it wasn't 100% stable at DDR2-667. That's gone now, I've been testing memtest86+ for 12 hours now with no errors. It also runs flawlessly in 3DMark 2006 for hours at a time, that wasn't possible before either. I have yet to see a single problem at this speed since updating it this friday. I'll let the machine run like this the night over, and I'll call it 100% stable at DDR2-667 if I haven't been able to crash it within 24 hours of intensive testing. I'm optimistic as I haven't seen stability on this system like this before, but I won't be doing my victory dance before seeing it still running without errors tomorrow morning. At DDR2-800, there's still a lot of tweaking needed to make it "almost" work. I ran the machine for 10 hours with the DRAM voltage at 2.1, north bridge at 1.55, and the FSB termination voltage at 1.40. Then it did crash, but that's surviving for a LOT longer than it ever has before at DDR2-800. Something has definately been improved in this BIOS. I'm thinking it would probably run with the DRAM voltage set to 2.15 or 2.2, but I won't start testing that before I've seen the machine survive 24 hours of testing at DDR2-667 so I know it's actually possible to run it stable at that speed. Even if the machine does work at DDR2-800 at the higher voltages, I'm very much inclined to just settle for running at DDR2-667 anyway. At such a high over-volting percentage,the resulting heat and component wear doesn't seem like it's worth the small performance gain, if there is one at all. Seeing how much of a difference this beta BIOS makes, who know what the final version will do? Right now I'm happy to have what seems to be a stable system that's for sure. I've tried flashing back to the old 0603 BIOS to see for certain if it really did make a difference, and it sure did. All the problems returned, and the only medicine for that was flashing to 0701 again. That it's working now at DDR2-667 doesn't make it all OK. For Asus to market a board as supporting DDR2-800, and not mentioning the special cases where it doesn't is simply unacceptable. It may be common sense to the tech gurus on boards like these that the chipset in reality doesn't support four memory modules at once running at full speed, but it's stated otherwise in the marketing and documentation for the P5K board. That's called false advertising no matter where you come from, and it's in seriously bad style! Shame on Asus for that, bigtime!:wtfman: I have to say I feel very much vindicated at this point since it turns out it wasn't my fault that these systems weren't working. There was no way to make it run 100% stable, and then comes a BIOS update that makes it work stable with no messing about with advanced BIOS settings and voltages. When running at DDR2-667 at least... Thanks to everyone who's been helping out, much appreciated fellas!:biggrin: If anyone needs the beta bios, it can be found here: http://rapidshare.com/files/53754875/P5K-ASUS-0701.zip.html Don't forget, you are installing this at your own risk, and it is beta! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 I'm happy to hear that you have come to an understanding of the issue. I don't think that anyone thought you were the issue. It makes logical sense that double the DRAM capacity will lower the throughput for stability, even if people are not told that at the sales level. I agree that there should be some manufacturers education and you can imagine how many times a day I talk with people over this very issue. :( Some can be very angry and blame the DRAM, etc. Some blame me when I tell them that the DRAM is not the issue. One good thing about ASUS is that they have more design and BIOS engineers working for them than any other motherboard manufacturer bar none! There will be more fixes and BIOS updates from ASUS than any other company. This will not change the fact that 4 banks filled will require less throughput than 2 banks filled but as you have shown, timings, voltages and most of all, bridge chip latencies can be tweaked by the BIOS updates. So really, it is a plus, not a negative. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingRoLo Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Hi, Drezn and I have the same problem and have both posted the problem at the ASUS tech website. I understand this is a corsair support form and im using Crucial but i thought you might be interested in my woes. I have 4 x 1 Crucial Ballistix 8500 ram which is rated to run at 1066 default. In order for me to get a (roughly) 90% stable system i have to downclock my mem FSB to the next setting 889. At 1066 WinXP would freeze generally within 1-3 mins at the desktop. At 889 my system was ok for about 5 days then frooze which was quite annoying because i thought i had solved it. So i then went into the BIOS and changed FSB to 1066 and the voltage and timings to Crucials rated speed of 2.2V and 5-5-5-15 timmings, basicly everything default and to the manufacturers guidelines and my system was stable for a day and a half at 1066 which is a big improvement over 1-3 mins. However it froze again :mad: So now im at a loss. The only thing i havent tried yet is the 0701 beta BIOS drezn posted which seems to be going down well. I am quite annyied about this because the ASUS board says on the front and all their marketing material that the board will run 1066 and well beyond with its super duper memspeed technology........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingRoLo Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Just saw the forum removed 'other' branded ram, sorry didn't realise was bad to discuss this. Feel free to ignore that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drezn Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 The only thing i havent tried yet is the 0701 beta BIOS drezn posted which seems to be going down well. I am quite annyied about this because the ASUS board says on the front and all their marketing material that the board will run 1066 and well beyond with its super duper memspeed technology........ Hey mate How come you haven't tried the 0701 BIOS yet? I know it's beta and all, but I haven't been able to see any changes apart from the increased stability. It's not like you're committing to anything, you can always flash back to the original BIOS without a trace of ever having anything else flashed. Hearing how your machine is running for half a day at default settings, I'm thinking there's a really good chance this BIOS may be what'll make it stable. How are you testing to see if it's stable by the way? Memtest86+ is an awesome tool for the job, nothing better to spot memory problems. I don't think you have to worry too much about the blanking out of brand names. It is after all a Corsair forum, and I guess they just reserve the right to only promote their own products on the site ;): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I guess they just reserve the right to only promote their own products on the site ;): Actually, the reasoning for the blanking out is because there can be fanboyism and arguments on which company is . . . yada, yada, yada... And there are many forums out there where this can go on, just not here. :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drezn Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Actually, the reasoning for the blanking out is because there can be fanboyism and arguments on which company is . . . yada, yada, yada... And there are many forums out there where this can go on, just not here. :biggrin: Hehe, that makes sense. But that doesn't mean you can't post about other brands than Corsair does it? Just making sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Hehe, that makes sense. But that doesn't mean you can't post about other brands than Corsair does it? Just making sure... You can post, but you have to be circumspect, and not create the atmosphere of this vs that. If the brand is blanked out, and you post a word or phrase to circumvent the posting restraint, then you are in violation of the forum's rules. So it is altogether best not to do so at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee RAM GUY Posted October 12, 2007 Corsair Employee Share Posted October 12, 2007 Actually we blocked out other manufacturers because many other memory manufacturers had no readily viable means of support at that time and many user's who had other makers memory were coming here to get help with other memory. So to prevent that we just blocked them, there is no reason to be talking about other memory on our forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 there is no reason to be talking about other memory on our forum. Pretty much says it all. :werd: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingRoLo Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Hey mate How come you haven't tried the 0701 BIOS yet? I know it's beta and all, but I haven't been able to see any changes apart from the increased stability. It's not like you're committing to anything, you can always flash back to the original BIOS without a trace of ever having anything else flashed. Hearing how your machine is running for half a day at default settings, I'm thinking there's a really good chance this BIOS may be what'll make it stable. How are you testing to see if it's stable by the way? Memtest86+ is an awesome tool for the job, nothing better to spot memory problems. I don't think you have to worry too much about the blanking out of brand names. It is after all a Corsair forum, and I guess they just reserve the right to only promote their own products on the site ;): Well now i am completely at a loss, i am now using the Beta 0701 BIOS and within an hour the system froze again. So I restart and have been using the pc for a few hours after that, playing games, rendering out a hefty scene in studio max. then sisoft sandra benchmark, no freezing - nothing. I even ran memtest86 for a couple of hours, no errors. Then i watched a movie bang the system froze again. This is what i can't understand. When i stress my system it doesnt usually fall over but when i do something not very system intensive like surf the web, open some documents, even watch an avi, this system freezes on almost any task from what could be from an 1 minute to about 8 hours of usage. Anytime inbetween this time frame. So basicly ive had it, ive never had so many problems before. This board is going back. Could anyone recommend me another board? one which obviously is proven in terms of stability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drezn Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Could anyone recommend me another board? one which obviously is proven in terms of stability? I'm afraid the message from the other posters is that there's no help to get here. Makes sense though, it is after all a Corsair forum... I do want to help you in this strange uphill battle that is the P35 chipset, so let's continue this on the Asus forums after this post shall we? Before we leave this thread, read through the whole thread. I'm sure you'll notice DerekT stating us it's a chipset limitation more than anything. Another board may not solve anything for you if it's got the same chipset. Apparently, four sticks of memory on this chipset is a no go without some tweaking. This may even be an issue on other chipsets as well... I'll monitor the thread you had on the Asus board OK? I'll post my advice for you there: http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?id=20071001011427640&board_id=1&model=P5K&page=1&SLanguage=en-us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 I'm willing to help all I can regardless of the DRAM manufacturer. As long as you do not post manufacturers it doesn't matter. Keep in mind that the testing and packaging and programming of chips is the realm of the companies but often not the actual IC maker. So, Micron chips and their designation can be used at any time. D9GMH for example, or D9GCT, etc. I have found it far easier to just remove the issue of 4 X 1024 and move to 2 X 2048 and doubly so with the dramatic drop in DRAM prices. I would try the drop as you have KingRoLo. Drop to 889, increase your MCH Voltage +0.5 volts. If you have Messenger, I can very likely help you test and see if this is a viable solution or if an FSB <--> MCH upclock will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wired Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Couple of things here: Aside from what motherboard manufacturers state or don't state about how many sticks / slots / speed they will run at, don't forget to check how the memory manufacturers test and guarantee. Memtest86+ is the only one you should be running, as the older ones aren't updated for the newer memory controllers. As for blocking out the names of other memory manufactuers, pretty much what Ram Guy said. It's cross hardware posts like this that make me think about bringing back the houseofmobos.com though :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.