H100i and i7 8700k

[alphadelta]

Hi all,

 

I am new here having just had a new video editing system built. I am technical to a point, but not confident enough to build or tune my system. I selected the parts based on a lot of research for Premiere Pro CC editing, gaming performance is simply a bonus! Anyway, that's me...

 

So I haven't overclocked my ststem at all, but notice that my video editing is causing the h100i v2 cooler to kick in (set to 70 degrees celcius) and try and cool the 8700k down. It's crashed a few times under load, when I am simply applying simple effects like stabilizers or colour effects. Nothing my old system couldn't handle, albeit slower! I am unsure if I need to tune my system or set something up differently. To me, I am surprised a processor would struggle to play back 4k footage with a few colour effects to the point of crashing the system.

 

I am wondering if I have a faulty cpu or the cooler just isn't doing the job it should be doing.

 

Yes, my studio is fairly small and stuffy, but not overly warm, plus the case isn't IDEAL in terms of airflow (some may say) as this one has open corners so maybe the flow isn't optimal... But still, is this normal?

 

I have nothing to compare to having come from a 5K iMac!

 

I've read a few threads on this chip but nothing that I can interpret as pertinent to my problem.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Andy

[DevBiker]

First ... you have the H100iv2 cooler set to kick in a 70C? What do you mean by this? Can you post the screen for your pump settings? It sounds like you've set the cooler's fans to be based on CPU temperature rather than coolant temperature. This is not ideal; you should have them based on the coolant temperature.

 

As for the playback performance, are you encoding using the CPU or are you encoding using either the integrated GPU (Intel QuickSync) or the NVidia GPU (NVEnc)? For preview in place, I would recommended using either QuickSync or NVEnc, which I would assume that Premiere supports. Use the CPU encoding for a final encoding ... it's higher quality and smaller file size. GPU encoding will be 2-3 times faster (at least) than CPU encoding. By the way, if you want to use Intel QuickSync, you'll need to enable the iGPU in the BIOS; by default, it will be disabled when a discrete GPU is present in the system.

 

As for normal temps ... it's hard to say because there just isn't enough information to evaluate. First, having the CPU hit 70C during a CPU-based encoding session is not unusual in the least. But what we don't know are the temps for your coolant, your ambient temperature, and, if your cooler is configured as exhaust, the internal case temperature. Note that using the GPU will increase the case internal temperature, which can be an issue if you have the radiator configured for exhaust. Cooling works based on deltas ... the delta between the CPU and the coolant, the delta between the coolant and the air flowing through the radiator. And the goal is to move the heat from the components producing it (the CPU and the GPU, primarily) to somewhere else outside the case. To do this, you need to have cooler air/liquid flowing over warmer components so that they can absorb the heat energy and take it elsewhere. If, however, the air flowing over the radiator is actually warmer than the radiator coolant, it will actually warm the coolant (not what you want). So you need to look at it as a interrelated thermal environment. It ain't magic, it's science b**ches!

[alphadelta]

Thanks very much for the quick reply! I have attached my settings plus what I see when playing back one 4k video file in Premiere CC. To me, whilst I appreciate there may be advanced settings that I can play with to tune the system, this PC should be able to rip through video up to about 2-3 simultaneous 4K streams without breaking a sweat. Premiere exploits NVidia CUDA cores so I know I have always had that set. Everything else is default and how it has always worked on previous systems.

 

At idle, now, the package is saying 27 degrees celsius which to me feels normal, but as soon as Premiere wants to playback video it will jump to 70 degrees and fluctuate between that and around 86. Load is around 70-76% during this time.

 

In terms of the science of airflow, I am relying completely on expertise from the team that built this, plus you and anyone else! The guys that built it would surely have installed my H100i v2 and the fans to be efficient?

 

This was my biggest fear jumping back from Mac - running into problems and needing engineer expertise just to be able to do my job! I never planned on needing to tweak the Bios or overclock anything. I'd be happy with stock settings and stability.

 

Thanks,

 

Andy

[alphadelta]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/noa5irl435muakj/h100iv2-settings.PNG?dl=0

[alphadelta]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/iv8nrmdeh2svkff/playback-4kLUT.PNG?dl=0

[DevBiker]

OK ... your cooler is configured properly; the fan speeds are based on the H100i v2 temp. Pump speeds look good also but more telling would be what they look like at idle. I don't know who put your system together but it's pretty common that the fan header that the cooler is connected to (by default the CPU Fan header) is not set to 100% in the BIOS. Hopefully, they did that.

 

If you are coming from Mac, "with previous systems" doesn't really apply. There's a HUGE difference between PC and Mac. For starters, Mac is a closed system. Adobe knows what they will have available and what the optimal settings will be on a Mac because there's no real variability in the hardware. On PC, it's exactly the opposite. There's a ton of variability and a ton of different potential combinations. So the defaults may not be the optimal settings. On the upside, that not only drives down costs but will also usually give better performance. That said, with the exception of the fan header and possibly enabling the integrated GPU, you shouldn't need to tweak anything in the BIOS.

 

The load on the CPU looks like it's using the CPU for encoding. 4K video is pretty taxing on the system ... no matter what you are using ... and CPU encoding is simply slower than GPU encoding. For example, when encoding HD video using Intel QuickSync on my system, I'll see 150 FPS ... not using QS but instead using my overclocked 7700K on the same source, I'll see 40 or so FPS. So the difference is significant. I don't know what the Adobe defaults are or what settings are available (I'm graphically challenged) but I do know a little about encoding as I rip BluRays pretty frequently with Handbrake. It also doesn't look like it's using all of the cores ... when I'm encoding, I'll see 100% CPU utilization. You aren't. So that's weird. Is there a limit to the number of cores or threads that it will use for encoding? Is there an option to select what is used for the encoding? On a single system, NVENC should be fine and will really push through encoding jobs; you just have a limit of, I think, 2 simultaneous streams.

[alphadelta]

OK good news re cooler settings... Idle looks like this:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6zvv5415yea3jd6/idle.PNG?dl=0

 

Yes I hear you re Mac - I guess I just need time to learn a few things. My worry at the moment is my client projects and the fact that it's not just maxing out and looking hot, but crashing and corrupting files (common with Adobe Premiere if it's playing back during crash)... I am now on edge all the time and I've sacrificed a limited, slow system, for a fast, but unstable one!

 

Premiere is not developed to utilise multiple cores (a huge common critisism), unlike DaVinci Resolve etc. It's the reason I backed out of the AMD 1950x Threadripper system for the Intel based 8700k, which is better on a single core than AMD's Ryzen, apparently. That may have sounded like I know my ******, but my knowledge stops there! :biggrin:

 

I need to find a way of stopping these crashes. I'm scared of Bios ever since I updated my last PC (using a legitimate updated BIOS file from ASUS web site) and it not restarting again due to a missing AIO.sys or something like that! Apparently, a reinstall was the only way...

 

So this header setting for the fan, is this easy for a paranoid BIOS-phobic person like me to check and/or update?

 

On the subject of BIOS - some times when I restart, it looks for an SSD on my system, when the M.2 drive is set in the boot menu as priority? I can't work this out - if I unplug the ssd it boots fine! I notice it looks like there are some Windows files on this SSD that maybe confusing Windows (possibly stored on the small boot partion?).. That's another story though ;-)

[DevBiker]

Sorry ... not good news on the cooler settings. That pump is definitely configured incorrectly. You should never see 0 RPM on that cooler and the pump speed actually doesn't change ... that should be about 1900 RPM. So you aren't getting the proper voltage going to the cooler. See http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=168801 for reference. Who built this system?

Fortunately, I can help you with the Asus BIOS.

First, open up the computer and make sure that the fan header connector from the cooler is connected to the CPU Fan Header. It likely is but it's good to be sure. The CPU Fan header is the top connector just to the left of your RAM. If it's not connected to the CPU Fan header, move it there.

Go into the BIOS at boot. From there, go to Advanced Mode. The easiest thing for you to do is to disable Q-Fan control for the CPU Fan Header.

Go to "Monitor" ... "Q-Fan Configuration" and set CPU Q-Fan Control to "Disabled". It'll look like this:

 

As for the crashes ... can you post some more details about it and we can try to help. Honestly, however, you may be better with an Adobe-focused board ... they'll have the experience and expertise in the Adobe products that we may not have around here. I have some experience with encoding but I have very limited experience with Adobe products. That said, we'll try and we can certainly help you get that cooler configured correctly (it's not).

[alphadelta]

Thanks very much indeed. This is a good sign as far as I'm concerned because it may explain the issue. Before I face BIOS, here is what I see on the motherboard..

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/de5wpvmqfsw8tjc/close.jpg?dl=0

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sffhewr7qjd5npm/wide.jpg?dl=0

[DevBiker]

Well, something is plugged in to the CPU Fan Header. I can't tell if it's the cooler but it's a likely bet. The instructions tell you to plug it in there. They don't tell you, however, to set the header to 100% ... which is a miss on Corsair's part.

Not sure if it'll explain the crashes but I guess we'll see! Head on over to the BIOS and get that header configured properly.

One note: you'll likely need to reset this if/when you flash the BIOS.

[alphadelta]

OK cool, so just to confirm, all I am doing at this stage is disabling Q-fan control?

[c-attack]

You need to disable Q-Fan. While you are in there, turn of the Asus Multi-Core Enhancement. It is as at the very top of the Extreme/Advanced Tweaking Section of the Advanced BIOS. It is a motherboard tool to make all the cores run at the single core turbo speed, however it can cause issues on Z370 with too much voltage when in the auto settings. I am seeing 1.34 Vcore in one of your Link shots and you should be a good tenth under that at stock settings. I am wondering if this is linked to the Adobe crashes.

[alphadelta]

OK wonderful, I successfully ventured into BIOS and emerged unharmed ;-) I disabled the fan control (Q-Fan) and multicore enhancement (I remember reading that somewhere actually - is there a reduction in performance as a result?)...

 

Well something seems to have worked because I ran the Cinebench stress/benchmark test after restarting and got this:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ymx37i9drl209c4/cinebench.JPG?dl=0

 

Look any better?

 

When playing back 4k video in Premiere I am getting a max load of 65/70% and package temp of around 68 degrees C.. What do you reckon?

[DevBiker]

Your temps look absolutely fine.

Question: at idle, do you see the same pump speeds? You'll want to wait about 5-10 minutes after a load for all of the temps to drop again. That will tell us for sure if the pump is getting the proper amount of voltage. You should be seeing the same pump speeds ... ~1900 RPM on Quiet mode ... and at least some amount of fan speed. This setting should be fine for the pump; I've not been able to divine any real difference in temps between Quiet and Performance mode on the pump.

And the bigger question ... did that resolve your crashes?

[c-attack]

OK wonderful, I successfully ventured into BIOS and emerged unharmed ;-) I disabled the fan control (Q-Fan) and multicore enhancement (I remember reading that somewhere actually - is there a reduction in performance as a result?)...

 

I would not phrase it that way. This brings you back to Intel CPU default behavior. You can always overclock it and the 8700K has headroom, but you don't want to "Auto overclock" this platform by letting the multiplier run wild and then the board adds as much voltage as it likes. The board makers came up with this feature (they all have a version) to help them win motherboard review comparisons. Instead of 1 core running at 4.7, it makes them all run 4.7 except the CPU won't allow it and your run 4.3 on 6 cores with enough voltage for a much higher frequency. You dropped from 1.34v to 1.22v on Vcore. Corresponding temperature reduction as well.

 

So did you reduce your performance? No, because you shouldn't crash now and the job gets completed. However, depending on how Adobe uses resources, you may see higher single core frequencies in this configuration while still getting the same multi-core performance.

 

I missed the zero pump speed part, but your current speeds look appropriate, as does that coolant temp (H100i v2 Temp) in Link. I am seeing around a +5-6C increase in coolant temperature for CPU loads with this one at 5.0/1.30v. For short duration loads (less than 20 minutes) you should not see more than that.

[alphadelta]

Your temps look absolutely fine.

Question: at idle, do you see the same pump speeds? You'll want to wait about 5-10 minutes after a load for all of the temps to drop again. That will tell us for sure if the pump is getting the proper amount of voltage. You should be seeing the same pump speeds ... ~1900 RPM on Quiet mode ... and at least some amount of fan speed. This setting should be fine for the pump; I've not been able to divine any real difference in temps between Quiet and Performance mode on the pump.

And the bigger question ... did that resolve your crashes?

 

Yes the pump speed is exactly as you suggested! And so far I have been in Premiere and After Effects simultaneously (as they were designed) and so far perfect!! Can't thank you enough.

[alphadelta]

I would not phrase it that way. This brings you back to Intel CPU default behavior. You can always overclock it and the 8700K has headroom, but you don't want to "Auto overclock" this platform by letting the multiplier run wild and then the board adds as much voltage as it likes. The board makers came up with this feature (they all have a version) to help them win motherboard review comparisons. Instead of 1 core running at 4.7, it makes them all run 4.7 except the CPU won't allow it and your run 4.3 on 6 cores with enough voltage for a much higher frequency. You dropped from 1.34v to 1.22v on Vcore. Corresponding temperature reduction as well.

 

So did you reduce your performance? No, because you shouldn't crash now and the job gets completed. However, depending on how Adobe uses resources, you may see higher single core frequencies in this configuration while still getting the same multi-core performance.

 

I missed the zero pump speed part, but your current speeds look appropriate, as does that coolant temp (H100i v2 Temp) in Link. I am seeing around a +5-6C increase in coolant temperature for CPU loads with this one at 5.0/1.30v. For short duration loads (less than 20 minutes) you should not see more than that.

 

Exactly - no issues as long as the job is getting done! Thanks very much for some excellent advice. I will definitely look for some help on overclocking (eventually) as I agree - I want to get the most out of this processor.