Inheritance Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 You do realise most class action lawsuits fail before they begin. Also NVIDIA law suit still has to be approved be a Judge so they havent been hit with anything, all they see is the bat they might or might not be smacked with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodilX Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 You do realise most class action lawsuits fail before they begin. Also NVIDIA law suit still has to be approved be a Judge so they havent been hit with anything, all they see is the bat they might or might not be smacked with.Sure, nitpick on that and ignore the fact that false/dishonest advertising is illegal in most if not all countries around the world. Edit: The US law in question - the Lanham Act http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/1125#a Any person who, on or in connection with any goods or services, or any container for goods, uses in commerce any word, term, name, symbol, or device, or any combination thereof, or any false designation of origin, false or misleading description of fact, or false or misleading representation of fact, which— ........ in commercial advertising or promotion, misrepresents the nature, characteristics, qualities, or geographic origin of his or her or another person’s goods, services, or commercial activities, shall be liable in a civil action by any person who believes that he or she is or is likely to be damaged by such act.In other words - any competitor such as Logitech could sue Corsair, under the pretense that Corsair with its false advertising are stealing customers away. Similar cases have gone to court not only in the US, and most of them were ruled in favor of the plaintiff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtGranda Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Can you prove that this keyboard is actually incapable of 16.8 million colors? You can't .. so why continue to stir the pot? A solution is being worked on, and when it's published your claims fall apart. At this time 16.8 mil isn't available but that doesn't mean it will always be such. Until such a time when Corsair throws up their hands in defeat ... there will exist reasonable doubt in a lawsuit claim. Nvidia is now hit with a class action lawsuit for not disclosing the fact that 500mb of the 4GB of VRAM on the 970 is slower than the rest. Technically the cards do have 4GB of VRAM as advertised, but the fact that ~12% of the VRAM is slower than the rest, is enough to justify going to court for false advertising and maybe unlawful business practices. No, the cards have 4GB, as advertised. The end user does not know why 500MB are a little slower but I assure you there is a perfectly good reason for it related to the operation of the card on the bus. That doesn't stop life-less busybodies violating the card maker's EULA launching pointless claims that they really know nothing about. KIA got hit with a ~$100 million settlement for advertising their cars with up to 10% more horsepower than they actually had. The list goes on, just look up "false advertising cases" and there are hundreds of such examples. ... and we wonder why the price of everything is going through the roof? What a bunch of crap launched by people not really intelligent enough to work a job much less have a case. The McDonalds lady who stupidly spilled hot coffee on herself and launched a case against them because there wasn't a warning on the coffee cup, won her case but in doing so self-labelled herself ignorant and without the slightest shred of common sense. People have FAR too much time on their hands. So how much of YOUR life is spent paging through false advertising claims looking for the "big strike"? Again ... First World Problems. :roll: Why not simply return the keyboard and get a good night's sleep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t3hlazy1 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I don't see how there is an argument here. What they are doing is illegal, the end. However Corsair is offerint to refund any of their RGB keyboards, so that's a decent start. Now they just need to change their advertising and all will be well. Right now they are tricking consumers. If you argue for Corsair, then you must have no respect for your fellow consumers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodilX Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Can you prove that this keyboard is actually incapable of 16.8 million colors? You can't .. so why continue to stir the pot?Well hey, it seems not only Corsair but you as well make false claims. Yes it's easy to test how many colors the LEDs can be produced when they can only produce 512 colors. Unless you find it difficult to count to 8, then I guess you're right, we can't prove it. Typical McDonalds hot coffee stuff (get it, hot coffee?)You are again, missing the point. The issue is FALSE ADVERTISING. I'm not talking about stupid people doing stupid things and blaming others for their low IQ. I'm talking about a company willingly advertising their product with false claims to gain an advantage over competitors and thus increasing sales. Do you understand, that manipulating product marketing material to sway consumers to think your product has added benefits is ILLEGAL? You just can't do that, but Corsair is doing just that. They are claiming in all of their marketing material I've seen, even the technical specs are listed with 16.8 million colors, yet 512 colors can only be produced. If you don't understand such a simple thing, well.. in a word .. education ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inheritance Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Well hey, it seems not only Corsair but you as well make false claims. Yes it's easy to test how many colors the LEDs can be produced when they can only produce 512 colors. Unless you find it difficult to count to 8, then I guess you're right, we can't prove it. You are again, missing the point. The issue is FALSE ADVERTISING. I'm not talking about stupid people doing stupid things and blaming others for their low IQ. I'm talking about a company willingly advertising their product with false claims to gain an advantage over competitors and thus increasing sales. Do you understand, that manipulating product marketing material to sway consumers to think your product has added benefits is ILLEGAL? You just can't do that, but Corsair is doing just that. They are claiming in all of their marketing material I've seen, even the technical specs are listed with 16.8 million colors, yet 512 colors can only be produced. If you don't understand such a simple thing, well.. in a word .. education ;) Look if you think your so smart then why dont you go and start a class action lawsuit and get a court to approve it. Also no where was i ignoring the false advertisement, Im pointing out that you were wrong about the law suit. You do realise that even if NVIDIA gets sued, and the class action wins, the consumers will get jack. They might even be hurt since NVIDIA is willing to refund GTX970 but after a class action suit they might not. And if you had any idea about the pay out of class action lawsuits you wouldnt feel so mighty. RedBull got sued for false advertisement about "giving you wings" i signed up to get some money back. I could get up to something around 10$ but in the end i got 2$. SO yea go class action all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtGranda Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Well hey, it seems not only Corsair but you as well make false claims. Yes it's easy to test how many colors the LEDs can be produced when they can only produce 512 colors. Unless you find it difficult to count to 8, then I guess you're right, we can't prove it. I asked if you could prove the keyboard is -and will be- unable to produce the stated colors, not whether it can do it now. It's obvious it cannot do it now, as Corsair (and even I) admit to. If Corsair decides to give up their quest to resolve the issue, at that time you can definitively state the keyboard is incapable of producing the stated color spectrum. Until then however, it IS possible and no judge will rule against it (thankfully). There are people who state they are champions of the consumer ... but what they actually are is under-employed ambulance chasers scanning fine print coast to coast looking for the BIG score. Right now the only redress you have available is a refund, so why don't you pursue it? You'll have every cent back you spent and then you can go about your life unencumbered by evil profit-generating corporations? No, you say ... you'd rather continue to b*&(^ and moan ... then be prepared to catch flak for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtGranda Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 RedBull got sued for false advertisement about "giving you wings" i signed up to get some money back. I could get up to something around 10$ but in the end i got 2$. Seriously ... are there people that actually expected to grow wings by drinking Red Bull? :bigeyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inheritance Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Seriously ... are there people that actually expected to grow wings by drinking Red Bull? :bigeyes: lol thats what i thought but hey some guy class actioned won and well yea. Article below lolz http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/10/red_bull_lawsuit_free_beverage.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogzNutz13 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I just be happy with the product I ordered 3 months ago with a full postage fees refund due to the massive delay and a nice big fat new mouse mat with a blue theme. PS. Hopefully REALLY DAMN SOON!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodilX Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 You guys seem to misunderstand what I'm saying. I just gave Nvidia and it's lawsuit as an example, but for some reason zheren159 won't stop blasting the obvious stupidity of most class action lawsuits. What you don't seem to get, is that a competitor can sue Corsair for illegal business practices from their perspective that Corsair is stealing customers away, NOT a class action lawsuit which for some reason is the only thing you refer to. I must admit, most people are oblivious to these things and don't take action, yet some do. You must understand, that providing false or misleading information is ILLEGAL. Nutella a few years back settled for $3 million with a person who sued them for advertising their product as healthy and balanced, yet the product contains so much sugar and fat, a.k.a. - false advertising. Technical aspects are harder to distinguish, Apple, Microsoft, a bunch of companies were and are still being sued for advertising a device with X storage, where in fact users don't receive that much free space. 16 GB advertised isn't actually true as 16 GB is actual ~14.9, also the OS for devices take space and so on. So this is a technical thing, and I believe all of these types of cases where dismissed. However the situation here is different. The difference between 512 colors and 16.8 million can't be blamed on unit conversion or whatever - it just isn't there. Yet Corsair is still advertising 16.8 million colors. So point your fingers at stupid class action lawsuits, talk about stupid people believing Redbull gives wings - whatever. Just remember that what Corsair is doing is considered illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proffo Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I asked if you could prove the keyboard is -and will be- unable to produce the stated colors, not whether it can do it now. It's obvious it cannot do it now, as Corsair (and even I) admit to. If Corsair decides to give up their quest to resolve the issue, at that time you can definitively state the keyboard is incapable of producing the stated color spectrum. Until then however, it IS possible THAT IT MAY BE ABLE TO IN THE FUTURE and no judge will rule against it (thankfully). There is no indication on the packaging or in the advertising that the stated colour range is not yet available. I think that a judge may not side with Corsair if this was taken to court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proffo Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 It just needs a few tweaks to bring it up to it's advertised self. Well, these "few tweaks" have taken 4 months so far, and they still haven't appeared. If you read the main thread about this matter there's some technical explanations why these "tweaks" are more like fairly major challenges to the software engineers. In fact, it seems to me that there's a chance that it may not be possible to implement a firmware update that will provide the claimed 16.8 million colour animation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inheritance Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 There is no indication on the packaging or in the advertising that the stated colour range is not yet available. I think that a judge may not side with Corsair if this was taken to court. Yea the lawsuit would most likely be approved. We've had class action for dumber things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terabyte Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I'm no lawyer but I don't think a lawsuit would get far. Corsair stated that they offer a full refund to those that don't want to wait for the fix, it's not like they're saying you have to wait and that's it. Hadn't they offered a full refund, well that would have been a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morris8809 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I wonder how long said refund is valid? IF we don't see anything materialize soon, I may just take that option..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terabyte Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I wonder how long said refund is valid? IF we don't see anything materialize soon, I may just take that option..... Well, considering that the refund is because of the color issue I guess it will be available until they fix it. That's going by logic at least. Once the color issue is fixed the reason for a full refund doesn't exist anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodilX Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I hope Corsair isn't dragged to court as well, I have nothing against this company, but it seems you're again missing the point. The fact that Corsair is offering refunds for customers that are unhappy with this situation and claiming that they are working on a fix, doesn't make this issue go away. Corsair is straight up lying by claiming their product can achieve 16.8 million colors out of the box. Having the product actually achieve 16.8 million colors, and having it capable of achieving that is two different things entirely. As I stated, Corsair is delivering only 0.003% of the color spectrum, that is a huge difference between what is advertised, specified in spec sheets and what customers actually get. Imagine if you bought a mouse that was advertised at 10 000 DPI, and only had 0.003% of that - 0.3 DPI, with a "promise" to fix this later on. I bet you wouldn't be happy ;) What seems to be a continuing trend, is Corsair not being transparent with their customers. If they even advertised 16.8 million colors but put it an asterisk on the packaging, promotional material, advertisements etc, that as of now, software limitations are limiting the spectrum to 512 colors - we would have a different situation. Right now the only official information about this issue is Corsair James post, and I bet you the majority of customers out there won't tread this forum and find this.. Personally I think somewhere someone screwed up big in Corsair. I've tinkered with a 24bit RGB LED strip and it was a challenge to achieve high refresh rates with the full color spectrum. I was limited by the Arduino processor for doing all the transitions by itself, and also by the serial protocol for just passing new values to the Arduino - nothing worked on a bigger scale, only when I had a handful of LEDs to control did it work flawlessly. Corsair doesn't have these issues - they're using a dedicated LED controller that's receiving data via USB which is far faster than an Arduino working off serial communication, yet for so long this issue hasn't been fixed at all. There might be some other limitations that Corsair isn't disclosing to us, and we can only hope that all of this can and will be fixed at some point. As of now, almost 4 months have passed since Corsair James stated that the fix will be implemented in a "few weeks", and yet the ETA for the fix still seems to be a long way away :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JalYt_Justin Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I hope Corsair isn't dragged to court as well, I have nothing against this company, but it seems you're again missing the point. The fact that Corsair is offering refunds for customers that are unhappy with this situation and claiming that they are working on a fix, doesn't make this issue go away. Corsair is straight up lying by claiming their product can achieve 16.8 million colors out of the box. Having the product actually achieve 16.8 million colors, and having it capable of achieving that is two different things entirely. As I stated, Corsair is delivering only 0.003% of the color spectrum, that is a huge difference between what is advertised, specified in spec sheets and what customers actually get. Imagine if you bought a mouse that was advertised at 10 000 DPI, and only had 0.003% of that - 0.3 DPI, with a "promise" to fix this later on. I bet you wouldn't be happy ;) What seems to be a continuing trend, is Corsair not being transparent with their customers. If they even advertised 16.8 million colors but put it an asterisk on the packaging, promotional material, advertisements etc, that as of now, software limitations are limiting the spectrum to 512 colors - we would have a different situation. Right now the only official information about this issue is Corsair James post, and I bet you the majority of customers out there won't tread this forum and find this.. Personally I think somewhere someone screwed up big in Corsair. I've tinkered with a 24bit RGB LED strip and it was a challenge to achieve high refresh rates with the full color spectrum. I was limited by the Arduino processor for doing all the transitions by itself, and also by the serial protocol for just passing new values to the Arduino - nothing worked on a bigger scale, only when I had a handful of LEDs to control did it work flawlessly. Corsair doesn't have these issues - they're using a dedicated LED controller that's receiving data via USB which is far faster than an Arduino working off serial communication, yet for so long this issue hasn't been fixed at all. There might be some other limitations that Corsair isn't disclosing to us, and we can only hope that all of this can and will be fixed at some point. As of now, almost 4 months have passed since Corsair James stated that the fix will be implemented in a "few weeks", and yet the ETA for the fix still seems to be a long way away :/ Here's the deal: Corsair was working on the keyboard for a long time. They even tried to extend its release date so they could have it up to form for when it was released. This is comparable to buying a game when it's in its Alpha or Beta stages, it's incomplete. Corsair worked for a long time to get it working up to par, but they were pressured by their consumers to release it early, because people couldn't wait. Now people are complaining about it not being complete. It's false advertising, yes, and I'm sure that's the main issue for being sent to court if anything, but if someone really class actioned for that reason, it wouldn't make it very far in court, for the sole reasons that 1. Corsair are offering refunds and 2. The keyboard was only released due to the demand of the consumers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proffo Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Here's the deal: Corsair was working on the keyboard for a long time. They even tried to extend its release date so they could have it up to form for when it was released. This is comparable to buying a game when it's in its Alpha or Beta stages, it's incomplete. Corsair worked for a long time to get it working up to par, but they were pressured by their consumers to release it early, because people couldn't wait. Now people are complaining about it not being complete. It's false advertising, yes, and I'm sure that's the main issue for being sent to court if anything, but if someone really class actioned for that reason, it wouldn't make it very far in court, for the sole reasons that 1. Corsair are offering refunds and 2. The keyboard was only released due to the demand of the consumers. Fair enough. What is rather "suspicious" is that given what you have explained, Corsair didn't clearly explain this to review sites, retailers and prospective customers ? OK, those customers who "pressured" Corsair to release the unfinished product may be happy to wait for the update, however long it takes. But what about the average Joe who walks into a store, or reads a review and decides to buy this fairly expensive keyboard with it's "16.8 million colours" ? I think that the only reason Corsair aren't being truly honest and open about this is that they don't want to lose sales to their competitors. I also think that they may have made a fundamental error in the hardware design of the keyboard which is making the development of the firmware update much more difficult than it should be. It's like a car manufacturer announcing impressive spec on their next model. During the designing of the car they discover they are not yet able to meet the spec they announced, but put it into production and start selling it. A few weeks later customers notice that the car does not meet the claimed spec, and the manufacturer says "well, due to demand, we decided to put it on sale and finish word on the design later". Is that fair to other car manufacturers who do make cars that perform as they claim ? Is it fair to customers who buy those cars without being told that the car will not perform as claimed until a later (not specified) date ? Is it a professional way to do business ? I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodilX Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Here's the deal: Corsair was working on the keyboard for a long time. They even tried to extend its release date so they could have it up to form for when it was released. This is comparable to buying a game when it's in its Alpha or Beta stages, it's incomplete. Corsair worked for a long time to get it working up to par, but they were pressured by their consumers to release it early, because people couldn't wait. Now people are complaining about it not being complete. It's false advertising, yes, and I'm sure that's the main issue for being sent to court if anything, but if someone really class actioned for that reason, it wouldn't make it very far in court, for the sole reasons that 1. Corsair are offering refunds and 2. The keyboard was only released due to the demand of the consumers.So.. where does it exactly say on the box or in Corsairs advertisements, that the RGB line of keyboards are "beta", incomplete, production samples or in some way indicate that not all features work as advertised? I haven't seen any indications on any marketing material or product placement ads that would imply that this is not a finished product. Maybe I'm blind or something? :bigeyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevvie Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 So.. where does it exactly say on the box or in Corsairs advertisements, that the RGB line of keyboards are "beta", incomplete, production samples or in some way indicate that not all features work as advertised? I haven't seen any indications on any marketing material or product placement ads that would imply that this is not a finished product. Maybe I'm blind or something? :bigeyes: Agreed, it says on my package 16.8 million color in a big box in the top right. It does NOT say maybe 16.8 million colors if we get the software working at a later date but 512 colors for now. and as for " 2. The keyboard was only released due to the demand of the consumers." that JalYt_Justin said, thats like saying we made this car but the breaks don't work but because customers demand it we released it without working breaks. I for one was NOT aware this was not a finished product before purchasing it. I only found that out when it wouldn't work and i started searching the problem online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inheritance Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 It's like a car manufacturer announcing impressive spec on their next model. During the designing of the car they discover they are not yet able to meet the spec they announced, but put it into production and start selling it. A few weeks later customers notice that the car does not meet the claimed spec, and the manufacturer says "well, due to demand, we decided to put it on sale and finish word on the design later". Is that fair to other car manufacturers who do make cars that perform as they claim ? Is it fair to customers who buy those cars without being told that the car will not perform as claimed until a later (not specified) date ? Is it a professional way to do business ? I don't think so. Actually it's the most professional way to do business. They make the most money, if they get sued the still make more than if they waited and didn't release the RGB keyboard first. and based on the fact that its still almost impossible to get one shows that demand is not down. Its not a moral way to do business but if you want to turn a large profit margin then you might have to make some customers mad as long as you can get enough new customers who like the product and will come back for other products in the future. Example: I doubt everyone at NVIDIA missed the GTX 970 issue, but they released it as a 4GB card, not a lie, they stomped AMD's card forced AMD to cut prices, and in the end even with the returns and lawsuits they will still be making more profit per card then their only rival AMD. So yes its the most professional way but not the most morally, or legally correct way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proffo Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Actually it's the most professional way to do business. Well your definition of "professional" must be different to mine. To me, a professional is someone who has a level of expertise in their field of work, sport etc. They carry out their work correctly, efficiently and properly. To act or work a professional manner is to do it properly, efficiently and honestly. Making as much money as possible, especially if it's done in a dishonest or immoral way can hardly be described as a professional act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevvie Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Well your definition of "professional" must be different to mine. To me, a professional is someone who has a level of expertise in their field of work, sport etc. They carry out their work correctly, efficiently and properly. To act or work a professional manner is to do it properly, efficiently and honestly. Making as much money as possible, especially if it's done in a dishonest or immoral way can hardly be described as a professional act. substitute professional for profitable ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.