emiljensen2 Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Someone created a thread about this on reddit around 24 hours ago, since then it has been on top most of the day on /r/MechanicalKeyboards/ and as of this moment has 330 upvotes with 217 comments. This thread itself has gained at least 11k views in the last 24 hours, and we have 2/3 of the views the official statement on the sail logo thread has. At this current point in time it has been around 6 days since the last response from corsair on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyroknight Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 So the competition's keyboards colors are smoother? That's the first time I've read that. Are there any reviews that talk about that? If you look at LinusTechTips's review of a certain green snake-themed company's own RGB keyboard around the 4:25 mark, where he demonstrates the reactive typing, he mentions that it is very smooth at fading out, and from some other reviews I've seen online, as the few seconds he demonstrates isn't really enough to show the fade out, it is really smooth in comparison to what I can do in CUE, where the fade out effect of a gradient is really choppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morris8809 Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Corsair James, do we have any update on this? Last update was that dev was out on holiday. Its been a week, please let us know what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital.Zilla Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 Someone created a thread about this on reddit around 24 hours ago, since then it has been on top most of the day on /r/MechanicalKeyboards/ and as of this moment has 330 upvotes with 217 comments. This thread itself has gained at least 11k views in the last 24 hours, and we have 2/3 of the views the official statement on the sail logo thread has. At this current point in time it has been around 6 days since the last response from corsair on this matter. Can you cross-link this thread to reddit and vice versa? I'd love to get more views here, make sure this thread stays hot. Thanks everyone who's participating. Corsair's silence on a thread this active is pretty damming at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncanny1 Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Good suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatalfable Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 i think progress will be slow here. Taking these kinds of things to facebook and twitter has seen great results for other issues with other companies. waiting isnt effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirateguybrush Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 The reddit thread links directly to this one, and can be found here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trololol688 Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 http://i.imgur.com/boTmfd8.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emiljensen2 Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Can you cross-link this thread to reddit and vice versa? I'd love to get more views here, make sure this thread stays hot. Thanks everyone who's participating. Corsair's silence on a thread this active is pretty damming at this point. The creator of the reddit thread, Pirateguybrush linked it after your reply, but I'll quote it just in case. The reddit thread links directly to this one, and can be found here. It has been around 12hours since my last reply since then the thread has gained around 7,5~k views in that timespan, and we're 1,5~k views away from the views the official statement on the sail logo thread has. This thread has also been linked other places like overclock.net (Unconfirmed/Rumors subforum) overclockers.co.uk linustechtips.com sweclockers.com (And other forums with other languages than english.) It seems it has also been mentioned on amazon and newegg, though it seems to only be 1 review so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid Cobalt Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Can anyone tell me if the K95 RGB is having this "problem" too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piiman Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 So the competition's keyboards colors are smoother? That's the first time I've read that. Are there any reviews that talk about that? I had a Chroma and the colors change almost magically it's so smooth. You can stare at it and you will not see any steps it just seems to change color, it is indeed very smooth but its very limited as to what you could do color wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerpuncher Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 I had a Chroma and the colors change almost magically it's so smooth. You can stare at it and you will not see any steps it just seems to change color, it is indeed very smooth but its very limited as to what you could do color wise. I had a Logitech G510. It doesn't do individual keys, but it had the full 8 bit colors and was smooth like butter. Though, to make it fade you had to use LUA, which is a bit complicated to do in their software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalcProgrammer1 Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 It seems it has also been mentioned on amazon and newegg, though it seems to only be 1 review so far. I think that's my review lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emiljensen2 Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 I think that's my review lol I saw it was your name on amazon, but couldn't find who posted the newegg review. Was that yours too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalcProgrammer1 Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 I saw it was your name on amazon, but couldn't find who posted the newegg review. Was that yours too? Yeah, I copy pasted it from Amazon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital.Zilla Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 Thanks for the cross-link to reddit. I scanned through the thread and saw one thing that I think is still a misunderstanding of how light works, so I wanted to clarify. Most people on the reddit thread are agreeing that 512 colors is not enough but that 16.8 million is not necessary. The truth of the matter though, is that it really is... and here's why. The image below is the full color space. all 16.8ish million colors. When doing effects for keyboards and the like, it's very unlikely that we'll use the whole space, which is probably why people think we don't need all of it. However, the size of the entire space is simply a bi-product of the space that we actually will use. The common animations we're going to do on our keyboard are 1. Rainbow wipes 2. Fades to/from black 3. Fades to/from white 4. Rainbow wipes to/from black/white 16.8 million colors means you have 256 levels of brightness for any channel. That means that if you're doing a fade to/from white/black (2 or 3 in the image), you only have 256 steps of color. Assuming we want 60Hz (60 fps), that means the fade can't take any longer than 4.2 seconds (256/60). Sure, we're not using the whole colorspace, in fact, we're only using 256 colors, but if we had less than 16.8 million colors, then we'd have less than 256 steps for that fade. This would mean the fade would have to go faster or else it would be less smooth. This is why having 24 bit color is so important; not so we can use millions of different colors on a whim, but so fades have enough 'resolution' to transition smoothly. Here's another example, reversed. Imagine they somehow were able to double what the keyboard can currently do from 8 steps to 16 steps. we go from 512 colors to 4096. Seems like quite a few colors, right? It is... if you're not animating them. That's still only 16 steps for a channel though. In the above example of a fade to white/black at 60Hz would require the fade to be 0.26 seconds long (16/60). Any longer and you're less than 60Hz. Lets say you're alright with 30Hz (30 fps), that's still only going to allow you to go to 0.53 seconds. Make it a second long and you're at 15Hz (15 fps). You're definitely going to notice the stepping then if you haven't already. So in the end, we won't be using the whole 16.8 million point color space for static lighting, but we will be using it for the animations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital.Zilla Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 Here's the video of the WS2812 next to the keyboard. The thing is so bright that even covered by a key-cap it's blowing out the camera. I originally tried to capture it uncovered, but with the exposure high enough to see anything on the keyboard they were just pure white. Anyhow, this is a 50s rainbow which is about 60Hz for a 24bit colorspace. You can clearly see the popping on the keyboard and the smoothness on the left. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6685392/K70%20RGB/NeoPixel%20Vs%20kRGB%2050s%20Rainbow.mp4 Here are the WS2812 by themselves with the exposure cranked completely down. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6685392/K70%20RGB/NeoPixel%2050s%20Rainbow.mp4 Edit: p.s. for the makers out there, the breakouts are made by Adafruit. They're their NeoPixels line of products that have a bunch of different shapes and sizes, since dealing with SMD components usually require special tools and such. These are all breadboard friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerpuncher Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 I'm incredibly enraged by this. I was already put off by the tramp stamp and now this. So many delays and this product isn't even capable of delivering what Corsair is advertising. I'm a new customer of Corsair and I have to say that they don't live up to their reliability and quality reputation. I like the K95 I have, but my LED's are dying after just a few months. And that isn't an uncommon issue. That's not quality in my eyes. I was really excited for the RGB version as well. Not so much anymore, unless Corsair addresses this issue, I will skip buying it. 512 != 16.8 million, Corsair. I really hope this can be fixed by Firm/Software updates, but as it seems it is not and that is either an incredible, irresponsible oversight by the engineers, or Corsair wants to hoax their customers. And both are unacceptable. </rant> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emiljensen2 Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 I'm incredibly enraged by this. I was already put off by the tramp stamp and now this. So many delays and this product isn't even capable of delivering what Corsair is advertising. I'm a new customer of Corsair and I have to say that they don't live up to their reliability and quality reputation. I like the K95 I have, but my LED's are dying after just a few months. And that isn't an uncommon issue. That's not quality in my eyes. I was really excited for the RGB version as well. Not so much anymore, unless Corsair addresses this issue, I will skip buying it. 512 != 16.8 million, Corsair. I really hope this can be fixed by Firm/Software updates, but as it seems it is not and that is either an incredible, irresponsible oversight by the engineers, or Corsair wants to hoax their customers. And both are unacceptable. </rant> The way I'm thinking of it is that "GAMING" started getting put on the peripherals, and now the advertisement has gone "gaming" mode where the advertisement is over exaggerated like gaming peripherals normally are these days. It is sad to see that it has gone this way. (Yes that might be putting down conclusions too fast) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital.Zilla Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 The way I'm thinking of it is that "GAMING" started getting put on the peripherals, and now the advertisement has gone "gaming" mode where the advertisement is over exaggerated like gaming peripherals normally are these days. It is sad to see that it has gone this way. (Yes that might be putting down conclusions too fast) Statements like "The BEST gaming keyboard" and "mechanical keys that let you double tap faster than your opponent" are exaggerations and subjective. The issue here is that "16.8 million colors" is a mathematically provable fact. In this case its been proved to be incorrect so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emiljensen2 Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Statements like "The BEST gaming keyboard" and "mechanical keys that let you double tap faster than your opponent" are exaggerations and subjective. The issue here is that "16.8 million colors" is a mathematically provable fact. In this case its been proved to be incorrect so far. I was mainly just thinking about specs like the 16.8m colors, I wouldn't put weight on things like "This headset was manufactured with a pro 1.6 player!" and stuff like you mentioned. I consider that normal advertisement to make customers more interested. The 16.8m colors is one of the 4 main features listed for the rgb lines, and has been a very heavy point in the advertisement of this keyboard line. The things you mentioned are usually just sticked on the box, or even subtly named. And if we hit down now we might be able to stop companies from doing these things overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerpuncher Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 I was mainly just thinking about specs like the 16.8m colors, I wouldn't put weight on things like "This headset was manufactured with a pro 1.6 player!" and stuff like you mentioned. I consider that normal advertisement to make customers more interested. The 16.8m colors is one of the 4 main features listed for the rgb lines, and has been a very heavy point in the advertisement of this keyboard line. The things you mentioned are usually just sticked on the box, or even subtly named. And if we hit down now we might be able to stop companies from doing these things overall. Well as Digital.Zilla explained above, having all 16.8 million colors is really important for gradients and the like. So saying it has 16.8 million colors while not actually having them is a very big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfected Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Well as Digital.Zilla explained above, having all 16.8 million colors is really important for gradients and the like. So saying it has 16.8 million colors while not actually having them is a very big deal. Precisely, i hope a lawsuit comes to hand for this false advertising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncanny1 Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 @corsair - speak up already! Silence makes it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee Corsair James Posted October 19, 2014 Corsair Employee Share Posted October 19, 2014 During development of the keyboard and prior to the release of the RGB keyboard, we came across an issue regarding the possible color combinations. In an effort to get the product out to our customers as committed, we made the tough decision to resolve the issue in a future software release as we believe our customers would enjoy the product as-is. Here are the specifics that detail the issue: Due to USB stack size and performance issues, we had to reduce MCU processing overhead in the best and quickest manner. The LED controller gives us greater than 8 bits of color depth but we use the 8 bits that give us what we believe to be the best color granularity. Our controller architecture provides for over 100 million color combinations out of which we select 16.8 million to display. We devised a color palette scheme to encode and compress the RGB color data and the data to select and control the “current sources” that drive the LED array. An unfortunate side effect is that it prevented us from utilizing the full color depth available from the LED controller. We are in the process of making the necessary improvements so that we can send the uncompressed RGB data to the keyboard. Additionally, we are optimizing the data protocol and LED driver/display algorithms through the display control firmware to handle the uncompressed data, and to more efficiently program the “current sources” that drive the LED array. This should give our most “resourceful” customers an easy way to identify the data and be able to easily send standard RGB 8 bit values. This enhancement had already been planned and will be implemented in a few weeks by the release of a software update, which will be announced and be made available to download here and at Corsair.com. - Corsair Team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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