Corsair h60 flow? 990fxa-gd80 & fx-6100

Hi all

I have put together a new HTPC / SEMI GAMING system using an MSI 990FXA-GD80 & FX-6100 & just installed a Corsair H60 cooler

Similar to the system below in the links but Im not looking to break any world records>

 

http://hexus.net/tech/items/mainboard/35129-msi-990fxa-gd80-military-class-mainboard-sets-new-overclocking-world-record/

 

http://www.bjorn3d.com/news/MSI_990FXA-GD80_Military_Class_Mainboard_Sets_New_Overclocking_World_Record/1289.html

 

 

I dont have any current pics of my HTPC with the H60 installed, YET!>

 

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/HTPC_TEC/MSI%20990FXA-GD80%20SILVERSTONE%20LC13B-E%20BUILD/MSI990FXA-GD80550GTX-OCFX-61002.jpg

 

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/HTPC_TEC/MSI%20990FXA-GD80%20SILVERSTONE%20LC13B-E%20BUILD/MSI990FXA-GD80550GTX-OCFX-6100SIDE.jpg

 

I have removed the Silverstone NT06-E cooler which worked pretty good but is too bulky & does not help with the airflow within the case, Basically it just recirculates the air within the case, I installed the Corsair H60 and fit the radiator in the removed middle drive bay in the Silverstone LC13 HTPC case, Damn nice fit too, Like it was meant for a radiator

Basically cool air is sucked in through the front of the case via vents that are all thew way along the bottom of the front panel

This seems to help with the actual in/out air flow of the case by pushing air from the front to the rear exhaust fans rather than the previous cooler recirculating warm air

 

Now what I would like to know is the which way the H60 pump flows, In & out?

 

Also I would like to know what the best flow route would be for a system using a reservoir? Common sense would tell me that the warm liquid from the pump goes to the radiator then to the reservoir then back to the pump/CPU block but am I wrong?

 

I am about to add a reservoir & change the stock H60 hoses to something a little bit more flexible

 

I am looking at the XSPC single bay reservoir>

http://www.gammods.com.au/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2551

 

I have just installed a coolingworks 120mm mini-shroud from frozen CPU and it works it has dropped the temp down almost 5 degrees (celcuis)>

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/13805/ex-rad-29/Blue_UV_Reactive_Mini-CoolShroud_-_120mm.html?id=xZ43uquD&mv_pc=5969

 

Just like to add also that I used my Gelid 120mm Thermally controlled fan on the H60 radiator which spins much slower than the Corsair fan & speeds up if/when the temp probe gets warmer depending where it is placed (currently near the top of the radiator)

 

Also the pump did make some noise when I installed it but I dropped the volts/speed down to around 80% via the BIOS and it is basically silent now

 

If anyone can be bothered reading all this (& preferably has modded a H60) & can help out with some info in regards to the flow direction on the H60 I would greatly appreciate it, Much easier to plan the route of the hoses beforehand rather than having to connect it to power whilst modding to find out the hard way

Thanks

I can only ask why??!

One of the primary benefits of the H60 (or any other self-contained liquid cooling system) is that they don't require maintenance. Those stiff coolant lines are especially designed to prevent coolant loss through evaporation, so that the system may remain sealed, leaving it maintenance-free. Open them up, and you've defeated that feature (and voided a rather good warranty.)

 

A reservoir is not likely to lower your CPU temps. If the H60 is doing the job now, leave it alone. If not, sell it and get an H80... or build a liquid cooling system from parts that are designed for that purpose. (But with that case as crowded as it is, I think a self contained unit would probably be the better choice.)

 

As for your fan, again, why?? The fan you're using is rated at lower CFM and lower static pressure than the stock H60 fan. Plus the stock fan is a PWM fan. Its speed can be temperature-controlled through the CPU fan header on your MB.. which is designed for that exact purpose.

 

Connect the stock fan properly, and lower your CPU temperatures!

 

(And if your pump is making noise, why not just RMA for a new unit? An 80% reduction in pump speed is rather substantial. That won't help your cooling any.)

 

Unless I'm missing something, it seems as though you are putting energy into changing things that don't need to be changed, and not changing the things that do! Perhaps it's time to re-think your plans for this system.

Thanks for your input sickfiddydee, I appreciate you even taking the time to read all my rambling let alone replying

 

My pump only made noise at full speed & I said I dropped the speed/volts down to 80% not dropped by 80% sorry, The temps are reasonable considering it is crammed into a HTPC case, I know that it will drop the temperature even more with a reservoir as it is simply more area to dissipate heat, How much exactly I cant say but from what I have read it can reduce the temp by around 10 degrees c, Also from what I have read many people have RMA'd their H60's and other Hydro's also many times & end up with the same trouble each time

 

Having the water circulate faster is not necessarily a good thing as it does not have time to cool in the radiator if it is going too fast but that is totally different for each type of cooling system & enviroment / case & Ambient temp etc

 

I might give the Corsair fan a go though with a larger CFM it may bring the temp down a little too

 

Im not looking for a huge drop in temperature but just like to play around & get the most out of something, A slight drop in temps means I can run the fans slower which is less noise which is what is needed for a HTPC, I am very pleased with it now though, Sitting on the couch right now you would not know (or hear) if it is running if you could not see the power/HDD on the front of the case

This may be the stepping stone to an all out water cooled system later on, I dont mind experimenting with the H60 for now, I now Corsair may not approve & will void the warranty

Thanks for your input sickfiddydee, I appreciate you even taking the time to read all my rambling let alone replying

 

My pump only made noise at full speed & I said I dropped the speed/volts down to 80% not dropped by 80% sorry, The temps are reasonable considering it is crammed into a HTPC case, I know that it will drop the temperature even more with a reservoir as it is simply more area to dissipate heat, How much exactly I cant say but from what I have read it can reduce the temp by around 10 degrees c, Also from what I have read many people have RMA'd their H60's and other Hydro's also many times & end up with the same trouble each time

 

Having the water circulate faster is not necessarily a good thing as it does not have time to cool in the radiator if it is going too fast but that is totally different for each type of cooling system & enviroment / case & Ambient temp etc

 

I might give the Corsair fan a go though with a larger CFM it may bring the temp down a little too

 

Im not looking for a huge drop in temperature but just like to play around & get the most out of something, A slight drop in temps means I can run the fans slower which is less noise which is what is needed for a HTPC, I am very pleased with it now though, Sitting on the couch right now you would not know (or hear) if it is running if you could not see the power/HDD on the front of the case

This may be the stepping stone to an all out water cooled system later on, I dont mind experimenting with the H60 for now, I now Corsair may not approve & will void the warranty

 

Forgive me... I actually misspoke. I meant a reduction to 80% (which would be a 20% reduction.) Still substantial, though. I well know about the possibility of excessively rapid coolant circulation increasing temperatures, due to the coolant not spending enough time in the radiator. I would guess, also, that Corsair's engineers are aware of this phenomenon, and have taken it into account when spec.ing the pump speed.

 

Were it me, I'd contact Corsair about an RMA... and tell them that I'm concerned about the possibility of getting a replacement with the same issues. (I actually did contact them today about my H100, and told then exactly that, to which they replied that every unit is being tested before shipping now. I'll see when it arrives.)

 

That H60 of yours has a 5 year warranty. That's hard to touch! Also, in the couple of very rare instances where one of the H-series units has leaked, Corsair has evidently replaced all of the damaged components... not just their product. I doubt the thing will leak on you, but I like that kind of peace of mind. Are you sure you want to void that warranty?

 

I don't think you'll be able to fit a reservoir into that crowded (and hot) case that would have enough surface area to allow any appreciable additional cooling.

 

Re: the fan... If you're looking for quiet cooling, why not use 2 PWM fans in push-pull, controlled via the mobo header w/ a PWM splitter? There are quiet PWM fans w/ better CFM and static pressure than the one you're using. (The static pressure is an important factor when moving air through radiators.)

When I was running an H60, that is what I did, and it was much quieter than the stock fan, and temps were very good.

 

(Don't know whether the automatic censor will allow me to say the name of the fans I used, but suffice to say, they are named after a large cat. I also believe the company that makes the very ugly brown and tan fans may have a quiet 120mm PWM fan with decent specs... if you like spending money)

 

Keep the H60 stock, spend that mod-money that's burning a hole in your pocket on a pair of good, quiet PWM fans and a splitter, set it up, close the case and leave it closed... and use that system for what it's meant to do!

I just shut it down (which does not happen very often) and installed the still brand new Corsair stock H60 fan & I was not impressed with the noise it made so I quickly unplugged it & went back to the Gelid silent TC 120mm fan

 

At full speed (just under 1900rpm) the corsair fan dropped the temp down by 1c? & sounded like a tornado in my case which is certainly not what I need (NOISE)

 

I reduced the speed of the Corsair fan down to 1100rpm & it still sounded way too loud, Of course it is moving more air but airflow is certainly not an issue going by the 1 degree temp difference it made

My Gelid fan is running at just over 1000rpm, Silent & does the job

 

As mentioned the temp is not a major issue but it is just the tinkering bug really, Much like this thread I just found explains>

http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=219905

 

Also explains which is the output on the pump, (bottom pipe) Which works out great for my layout, I wanted to avoid having hoses crossed over each other and all over the place, The hoses should run nice & clean from each point

 

The reservoir I have in mind is the XSPC single bay with the (optional silver & black) aluminium front panels, It is 149mm x 104mm x 42.5mm>

http://www.gammods.com.au/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2551

 

I dont have a DVD or Blu-Ray drive in my HTPC so I have plenty of space for a 5.25" reservoir, I would go for a double bay but they are more expensive & I would like to leave a bay just in case I decide to install a Blu-ray drive later on, At this stage I have about 6TB of stuff to watch so I dont even bother with DVD's or disc's at all anymore

To each his own, I guess.

 

If I'm not mistaken, the mobo you list has a PWM controlled CPU fan header. If you connected the stock fan to it and the software was set up correctly, the fan wouldn't have run on high unless you were stressing the CPU or you intentionally put it that way.

 

As I mentioned previously, a pair of quiet PWM fans in push-pull, connected via PWM splitter to the CPU header w/ PWM control would give you silent-running, temperature-controlled cooling. That's a "mod" you could spend your time and money on that would actually yield benefits.

Yes the MSI 990FXA-GD80 Mobo has fan adjustments on all 4 headers, The CPU & 3 system fans can be slowed down in 10% increments using the MSI BIOS or Control Center software

 

As mentioned, When I installed the stock corsair H60 fan I slowed it down to around the same speed that the gelid fan was running at & it was noisier so I changed back, It seemed to start making a whirring noise also when I slowed it down, Maybe it needed running in as it was new but I just did not like the extra noise from the air flowing that only gained about 1 degree

 

Basically considering I want to keep it silent I can rule out more airflow helping to reduce temps, I will add more liquid capacity to the system and will certainly gain a few degrees less heat

 

2 fans would be a tight fit where the radiator is & as mentioned the extra airflow (stock H60 fan at full speed/1900rpm) did not gain any major temp drop at all

 

I also have some IC Diamond thermal paste to use when I do the mods so that will also help

Basically considering I want to keep it silent I can rule out more airflow helping to reduce temps,

Not necessarily, depending on the fans you use.

I will add more liquid capacity to the system and will certainly gain a few degrees less heat

There is no certainty to that at all.

I also have some IC Diamond thermal paste to use when I do the mods so that will also help

Possibly. Possibly not so much. The stock TIM used by Corsair is said to be Shin-Etsu: pretty good stuff. Most of the personal experience I've seen reported on that diamond stuff has said "more hype than performance." I cannot say myself, as I have never tried it.

 

Personally, I don't see much gain in what you're proposing, and possibly more potential loss. But do what makes you happy.

By the way, I'm sitting right next to a case that's filled with 4 CPU fans, 4 more case fans that are controlled by the CPU FAN header, 2 more case fans that are controlled by the CHASSIS FAN header, and 1 hard drive fan that runs at constant speed. That's 11 fans total. It's whisper quiet.

 

Choice of fans and how they're deployed makes a big difference in the noise factor.

 

With that cramped case of yours, I'd be more interested in getting air moving in and out, than doing a bunch of Franken-mods. Any heat given up by a reservoir (though I doubt there would be much, if any) is only going to be dumped into the case to be sucked up by your GPU fan.

I understand what you are saying about the extra heat in the case but the reservoir will be closer to the exhaust fans than the VGA, Any heat from the reservoir will leave quickly

Currently the radiator is exhausting heat into the case pretty much directly toward the VGA so adding a reservoir and reducing the radiator temp will actually do the opposite & reduce the VGA temp

 

I now have a XSPC 5.25" bay reservoir, Some clear tubing & 1L of Thermochill EC6 coolant on the way

With some lapping of the pump & CPU surface & some IC diamond paste in between I think a fair bit of a temp drop is expected

I installed the XS-PC 5.25" single bay reservoir, Managed to find some clear 1/4"/6mm OD x 12mm which is just under 1/2" OD

(Most 1/4" ID hose is 3/8"/10mm OD)

The hose works great cause it looks pretty fat & I dont have much room for bigger 1/2" or even 3/8" ID hose

 

bleeding it through now & going to put some IC diamond paste on & see how it goes

MSIINOZ, good luck with your cooler mod, that's not an easy thing to accomplish. About how much liquid are you using in your setup? Did you notice how much liquid is in the H60 as it comes from the factory? You know by now the H60's pump has a low flow rate relative to DIY liquid cooling pumps. That's not a bad thing necessarily, it's simply appropriate for it's application.

 

IMO, I would think a larger amount of liquid in the system would tend to result in lower temps, all else being equal. If the liquid leaving the radiator of a stock H60 was at ambient temp regardless of CPU temp, then extra liquid would make no difference. While I don't know if that is the case with a H60, I would tend to think it isn't, or more likely not at a high, sustained CPU temp. More liquid can contain more heat, that is basic chemistry/physics. Even if we lower the heat dissipation of the radiator by reducing fan speed (for noise reduction) it's logical that putting the same amount of heat into a larger amount of liquid over the same period of time will result in a lower temperature in the larger amount of liquid. That would be advantageous with a continuous heat source over a longer period of time, which is exactly the case when watching videos. But if the radiator at a given fan speed can cool the standard amount of liquid in the radiator to ambient temperature regardless of the liquids temperature coming into the radiator, then more liquid in the system is worthless. Time will tell, and you'll see.

 

 

sickfiddydee, I'm wondering if MSIINOZ experienced the issue that some AMD CPU mother board users seem to have, that PWM fans do not operate as they should on the CPU fan header. IMO, that is at least partially due to the stock AMD CPU coolers using three pin fans, in contrast to Intel's which use PWM fans. The description of his boards fan speed control for the CPU fan header sounded strange to me, given my experience with the CPU Fan header on Intel boards.

 

You know how easy and flexible the PWM CPU fan speed control on current ASUS boards is. Choose a pre-defined fan speed profile, or create your own. A simple line graph with multiple inflection points, with CPU temp on one axis, and fan speed (percentage) on the other axis. I wish the Chassis fan headers had the same flexibility.

 

I've never understood why some high performance CPU coolers have three pin fans, and use a manual fan speed control. IMO, I don't see the need for or advantage of the fan controller on the H-series coolers, given what already exists on mother boards for PWM fans. Most 120mm PWM fans have a top speed of ~2000 RPM, which is below the Corsair three pin fans speed. Is there some limit of a PWM fans maximum speed, due to the PWM speed control?

stock AMD CPU coolers using three pin fans

Stock AMD fans use 4 pins. check this

http://www.silentpcreview.com/amd-phenom-coolers

Persec, When I drained the stock H60 it had very very little liquid in it, Hard to say exactly as I used a large tub then tipped it all in to a measuring cup & I would say there was approx somewhere between 125ml to 200ml at the most, I know the stock setup does not have much room for much liquid but im sure there would have been a fair bit of air inside originally

 

Like you mentioned though more liquid capacity does not necessarily help though

So far I have managed to shave off a few degrees but due to the fact that I am using thermally controlled fans they have dropped there speed which makes for an even quieter system which is what I am really after

 

I managed to put just under half of a Thermochill EC6 1L bottle back into the system after it was bled so it has easily doubled if not tripled the capacity

 

The UEFI BIOS or MSI control center works great for controlling fan speeds, It does not have an adjustable graph type setup though

which would be nice The stock corsair fan was just simply too loud for a HTPC setup even when the speed/volts was dropped down by 50% it was no where near as quiet as my Gel!d TC fan, I know the CFM is higher on the corsair but at the same speed it made 1 degree difference in cooling which is not worth the extra noise, I like the idea of the fans speeding up by them selves if the temps rise and I dont have to muck around with software or fan controllers, Just a matter of finding a good spot for the sensors

 

Im seriously thinking about trying out a dual 80mm radiator on the exhaust fans & doing away with the stock H60 radiator, I know the little dual 80mm radiators are not the best option except for small cases like mine but im sure with the extra thickness it will work just as good as the rather thin stock 120mm radiator

 

Much like this one below I found searching through forums, This is the same case or near identical

 

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=93667&d=1233197267

I have given up with the dual 80mm radiator idea as it would not cool the system enough especially sitting inside the cramped HTPC case and would have to rely on exhaust warm air within the case to cool the radiator

 

I have moved the stock H60 radiator out the back of the case & managed to drop the temp down another few degrees with the extra tubing & cooler air for the radiator, I am planning on using a dual 120mm radiator out the back later on & im hoping it will drop the temp enough to where I will be happy with it? I dont plan on doing any major overclocking & dont really play many high spec games but just want a nice quiet & cool system with great performance as a bonus

 

Im very happy with the system so far & especially all 3 corsair products I currently have in this system, My other older system has a corsair PSU & RAM too

Great, thanks for the info. Actually, I said I thought more liquid would increase the cooling ability, someone else said it would not.

 

I understand about the different fans and their noise vs air movement capabilities, fans can be so different in those two aspects. The only way to really tell how a fan will perform it to actually use it, and so many fans I have tried have been disappointing, most quiet ones move no air, and truly high air movement fans are always noisy. The bottom line is the cooling results in a specific application/situation, and you've found yours, great!

 

IMO, the majority of 80mm or 92mm fans either move no air, or are to noisy for the amount of air they move. Not that a 120mm fan will always be better, some are no better than the smaller fans, or even worse. Recently, I was impressed by the Corsair case fans used in the 500R case. They are quiet case fans, but move a surprising amount of air, more than any stock case fan that I have seen.

 

While I am a low CPU temperature freak too, I try to remind myself that a CPU temp of 40C - 50C when it is doing some real work is not hurting it at all. IMO, we tend to become obsessed with low CPU temps when we really don't need to.

Stock AMD fans use 4 pins. check this

http://www.silentpcreview.com/amd-phenom-coolers

 

Yay, it's about time! Sorry, I must admit I was "fishing" there a bit, and I am not familiar with AMDs recent CPU coolers. I keep seeing some AMD mother board users in this forum having problems with PWM fans, so I wonder about that.

Been thinking about adding another 120mm radiator, I would really prefer another stock H60 radiator if possible but dont want to have to buy another whole H60 kit, Someone would surely have one laying round? Is it possible to buy them direct from Corsair?

 

I also want to go for an external reservoir so it is not sitting in the heat of the (cramped) HTPC case

 

From what I gather the more liquid that is outside the case the better it seems to work, Im even going to reverse/180 the pump so the fittings & hoses are closer to the rear of the case, Basically there will very little hose in the case going to & from the pump

Msiinoz

 

When you get the external reservoir try putting some ice cubes ;) and watch the temps plummet

Thought I would add some pics, I still need to tidy up the wiring and add an external reservoir, Later on it will just be the pump & 2 hoses going in & out of the case, With the reservoir sitting in the drive bay it may be soaking up some off the internal case heat & increasing the CPU temp slightly, I may be able to drop a few degrees by going to an external reservoir?

 

Not the best pics, Taken at night with a flash

 

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/HTPC_TEC/MSI%20990FXA-GD80%20SILVERSTONE%20LC13B-E%20BUILD/H60_COOLED_MSI_990FXAGD80.jpg

 

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/HTPC_TEC/MSI%20990FXA-GD80%20SILVERSTONE%20LC13B-E%20BUILD/P08-05-12_2131.jpg

Actually, I said I thought more liquid would increase the cooling ability, someone else said it would not.

 

The temps are reasonable considering it is crammed into a HTPC case, I know that it will drop the temperature even more with a reservoir as it is simply more area to dissipate heat, How much exactly I cant say but from what I have read it can reduce the temp by around 10 degrees c, Also from what I have read many people have RMA'd their H60's and other Hydro's also many times & end up with the same trouble each time

Hey Parsec and MSIINOZ , adding more fluid by itself is not going to add extra cooling. Basically if anything you are just prolonging the time it takes for that amount of liquid to reach the same temps as the stock amount. The only way to increase the cooling ability is to add more surface area that the fluid is flowing through. Like adding another or larger rad.

Adding a res is not really surface area , It may cool a few degrees degree or two better at first just from the amount of time it takes the fluid to go through the system, but it will eventually level out to where it was.

It is true what you are saying but it also depends on a few different things, Firstly there was very very little liquid in the H60 when I took it apart and I dont think there was enough liquid to cool EFFICIENTLY before it got back to the pump, Also where the extra liquid is positioned is another factor, I have my reservoir in my case which would not be helping, I am certain I will drop a few degrees when I remove the internal reservoir & run an external reservoir which as you mentioned will have some of that extra surface area outside the case being cooled in the ambient temp rather than being inside the warm case