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  #16  
Old 09-27-2011, 10:13 PM
Neutral_Eyes Neutral_Eyes is offline
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I wouldn't consider it a deal breaker, but I am left wondering why they hyped up the mechanical switches, and then decided to make the G keys rubber dome, when those are the ones most likely to be repeatedly pressed with neccessary precision like they explain in the promotional video. That just appears to be the trade off for a nice looking chassis and individually lit keys.
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  #17  
Old 09-28-2011, 06:50 PM
Kalec Kalec is offline
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Think about this while gaming. Your main keys your pressing constantly, and then switching all the time to dome keys.
The feeling would be confusing and problematic. You will notice the difference very easily.
Lets say to other companies that has mechanical keyboard, most of them cheaper, yet fully mechanical.

To me this is a bad choice on Corsair, and they need to fully announce this before release, so people knows. Also needs to be stated on there site, as this will cause a lot of people to be pissed.
If not, they need to decide if they really want to release the K60/K90 or change the design.

To pay the price that they are K60 $110 and K90 $130, others are cheaper, by almost $30-$50
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  #18  
Old 09-29-2011, 03:55 AM
Culverin Culverin is offline
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I'm researching this because a mechanical with aluminum body and macro keys really caught my interest.

But you're right, if I didn't look, bought it and found out later, I'd feel really pissed off. I think the price is ok as it's still kind of unique as none of the major peripheral competitors have come out with a mechanical board with as much function. But at that price, they should have been able to use full aluminum across the face of the K90 and all mechanical switches.


Look at it this way, what's the point of building a mechanical GAME oriented board if your GAME keys aren't even mechanical?


Also, I make a lot of mistakes in Starcraft 2.
Having at least the ESC key as mechanical just seems like a no brainer.
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  #19  
Old 09-29-2011, 04:35 AM
persentio persentio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapid7
Posted by a Corsair rep on the facebook page.

http://www.facebook.com/Corsair/posts/197821146953522


Corsair: The top row keys, ESC thru Pause/Break, and the Insert thru Page Down keys are dome-switch keys. The same for the G keys on the K90.



If this is really true, especially for the K90 Macro keys, it's a huge, HUGE mistake IMHO by Corsair. How do you expect people to actually like having to have 2 different feels when using both macro and regular keys?

A true mech keyboard pretty much needs to have EVERY SINGLE key mechanical regardless of if they are ever going to be pressed by users at all.

I can fully understand the rationale for them doing this; however they are in a sense degrading their product over competing mech keyboards! I don't think any other popular offerings are doing anything like this; making assumptions that those keys won't be pressed as much and hence people won't mind those keys being 'neglected' from being given a mech makeover. I mean, the standard has already been set, why 'downgrade' it?

If it is really because of an issue of cost, then they probably shouldn't have gone with just Red switches as a first offering (correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression of the Reds is that they are currently more expensive than the Browns Blues and Blacks because of its relative scarcity).


Now I'm sure there are people who don't mind as well; but Corsair's going to have to do something about making this information known publicly before those hit stores. I'm betting it's going to hugely piss many people off when they discover those mentioned keys are using domes only after they have bought it because I'm sure EVERYONE is assuming they are going to get a FULL mechanical keyboard with the K60/90.

Last edited by persentio; 09-29-2011 at 10:45 AM.
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  #20  
Old 09-29-2011, 11:35 AM
JustinHEMI JustinHEMI is offline
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It isn't too late to make a change Corsair. ;)

If you're not going to go full mechanical, then it needs to be made more clear than one random facebook post. I can't find mention of domes in the product literature at all.
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  #21  
Old 09-29-2011, 02:05 PM
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RAM GUY RAM GUY is offline
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This is from the Key Board Product Manager to address the concerns you all have expressed!

Quote:
Because of the lightness and sensitivity of the Cherry Reds (which is fantastic for gaming, and much better than people think for typing) we wanted a different switch pressure for some of the other keys – especially the macro keys – so you don’t actuate them if your hand brushes over them. So we decided to use the Cherry MX key switches on all the keys except the top row (Escape through F12 plus PrntScn/Scrl Lock/Pause) and for the “six pack” (ins/Home/Page up/dn, Del, End) where we have tuned a silicon dome keyswitch strip with a slightly firmer spring rate and more damping – thought the electrical response (1ms) is the same. These keys are not used for double taps or movement keys, so we preferred a firmer, less twitchy feel on these non-typing keys. These are keys you want to hit once, and need to nail solidly every time.

On the K90, we also used a separate silicon dome keyswitch matrix for the macro “G” keys because it allows us to put these keys on a lower plane than the main typing keys – again, so you can find them by feel, and so you don’t hit them accidentally (Logitech’s G15/G510 users have complained about hitting G1 when they really wanted “Escape” – which can have dire consequences!). These keys have a fully programmable repeat rate/multiple in the macro software, so you won’t be using these for double-taps or triple-taps anyway.

This is the type of design innovation you get when gaming enthusiasts engineer a keyboard from scratch - without the restriction of using a mass-produced office keyboard as a starting point.
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  #22  
Old 09-29-2011, 03:11 PM
JustinHEMI JustinHEMI is offline
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Yeah I have no real concerns, I'm still getting a K60 when available. :D

Still, this should be made clear in the literature to save YOU Ramguy, the aggravation of explaining this every time someone didn't know about this until AFTER they bought one and they come here to vent about it. Just sayin. :)
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  #23  
Old 09-29-2011, 04:13 PM
Neutral_Eyes Neutral_Eyes is offline
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While I use a mechanical keyboard currently, I don't really have anything against a decent rubber dome switch - they have their place, but they're also cheaper for a reason. I just prefer the feel of a mechanical switch.

What I don't like about this, is how it seems you were caught sweeping it under the rug. The product page makes no mention of the rubber dome switches included on the board, or the reasons mentioned above for doing so. The promotional video even kinda bashes on them saying "It allows you to build a keyboard with a low cost, but it has a spongy feel, without good tactile feedback." I know many of the mechanical keyboard's selling points are based on somewhat absurd scenarios where you survive a nuclear holocaust and are forced to use one keyboard for the rest of your life, but it just seems odd to have two types of switches that will wear and feel differently over the life of the keyboard.

If a lower plane for the G keys was desired, I can see how a membrane switch was necessary here. From looking at the layout though, I don't see how I'd have any problems accidentally pressing a G key instead of Esc or vice-versa, even if they were on the same plane with a different mechanical switch. It's been a long time since any game had my heart racing enough to induce a nervous twitch, and I'm not fueled by Mountain Dew or Red Bull during "gaming sessions." Maybe I'm just not the demographic for this type of product anymore.

But I do buy a lot of Corsair products (see specs) and this is the first time I've felt their marketing was a bit shady. Had I purchased either of these keyboards with the understanding that I'd have all Cherry MX Reds like the spec pages indicate, and found the rubber domes after the fact? It would be returned on principle alone. It still seems like a decent board that will serve many well, and I'll happily try one out if they see their way into my local Best Buy, but the situation reeks of lying by omission right now, and that really doesn't fly with me as a consumer.
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  #24  
Old 09-29-2011, 05:26 PM
Arundor Arundor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAM GUY View Post
This is from the Key Board Product Manager to address the concerns you all have expressed!
I appreciate the attempt to address our concerns.

Unfortunately I have to say that I'm not really satisfied with dome switches and that what I look for in a good keyboard is full use of mechanical switches across the board. As it is, I don't think I will be buying this Corsair product. I don't say that to be hurtful or subversive, just to let you know that there is a market for a different type of product.

If in the future you choose to address that market with a keyboard of a different design, I would very happily buy one.
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  #25  
Old 09-29-2011, 09:54 PM
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Arundor,
We are sorry that you feel that way but thank you for taking the time to explain your concerns and reasoning! I will pass them on to the Product Manager and your post was well with in your rights and no offense was or should be taken. We know there are some who have their reasons to take another path and that is your right 100%.
Thanks Again!
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  #26  
Old 09-29-2011, 10:05 PM
Culverin Culverin is offline
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You might want to tell your marketing guys that some of the market out there feels that this is borderline dishonest behavior. Not to say that it was intentional or anything, after all, it's their first keyboard to pass through their hands right?

At best, I think these should be called mechanical-hybrid boards in much the same way Seagate can't call their hybrid drives as SSD drives. I think it's only fair people know that not all the keys are Cherry Reds.



As for myself, coming from a Logitech G15 (1st gen), this is my top choice right now as a replacement. I've got spares so I'm not in a rush to "upgrade", but since NCIX will be putting out demo models, I'll be sure to give it a try.

I just hope that you guys make a big splash in the market, maybe move on to full mechanical w/ macro keys next time. I wouldn't even mind a more premium product than what you've got.
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  #27  
Old 09-30-2011, 02:15 PM
Rapid7 Rapid7 is offline
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As Culverin has said this needs changing on the product description as it is very misleading.I myself was going to purchase a K60 but after finding out that it's not a true mechanical keyboard i'm going to give it a miss.
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  #28  
Old 09-30-2011, 04:09 PM
OmniNegro OmniNegro is offline
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Hmmm. I think we may need to wait until the egg hatches before we say that the Chicken will be too small or whatever.

We have a good idea what it will be like. The details provided here and elsewhere have made it pretty clear and it is not all bad.

I do believe the reason that not all switches are mechanical is related to the expense, but that is a secondary objective.

I rather doubt they saved all that much by having a few rows different. I do not think that anyone seriously considered that some would think it was dishonest.

They made good keyboards. And we may find that it is not all doom and gloom when we actually get to try them.

Let it hatch first!
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  #29  
Old 10-03-2011, 02:42 PM
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Guy's thank you all for posting your concerns and comments, the product manager will be notified But as OmniNegro suggested I think we all would like to see some reviews and maybe some user who have them before we decide. And I think Our product manager explained the reasons for the design, so for now its up to you.
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  #30  
Old 10-04-2011, 06:19 AM
ApokalipseMeow ApokalipseMeow is offline
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If it's to prevent accidental pressing of the top keys, why not use, say, MX-black switches instead?

I think even the idea of having some membrane keys is something that will turn people away.
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