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  #16  
Old 08-06-2020, 02:46 PM
jonnyguru jonnyguru is offline
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Originally Posted by jayhall0315 View Post
Hey Jonny, I agree with you that Amazon and Newegg, etc... only represent a small sampling but I also believe that the return rate for several models of Corsair PSUs is higher than 1%, which is not what it should be if they were designed correctly. (It should be less than 1%, ... it only rises to 1% to realistically account for shipping damage from carriers outside of Corsair's control.)
I have no idea how you come to the conclusion that the failure rate is that high. It is LITERALLY much lower than 1% and that ACCOUNTS for shipping damage and often some user error.

I currently work for Corsair in the PSU department. I know the real numbers.

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Originally Posted by jayhall0315 View Post
I work mainly in pure research from the lab (I am an electrical engineer but I mainly work with mathematical models of human like neural networks. It has been 20 years since undergrad when classwork dealt with power supply basics, so a tad rusty recalling the exact specifics.) but I talked to one of our tech guys to ask about failures yesterday. He checked our purchasing logs this afternoon and got back to me, .... our lab has used 57 Corsair PSUs during the last 3 years with 11 of them failing. Myself personally, I have used 7 PSUs in the last ten years roughly, 1 Thermaltake, 3 EVGA and 3 Corsair. This Corsair HX1200i i am considering returning is dead and the 650 watt unit I used in my wife's rig started acting strangely after about 14 months back in roughly 2012.
11 out of 57 PSUs failing is very unusual. I'd have to wonder what the application is if this number is real.

I wish they updated this article (they used to every year. Maybe they did and I didn't know about it?) but in 2017 the RETURN RATE (not failure rate, because their source doesn't actually test returns and puts everything in the same "bucket") and you'll see that the return rate is quite low: https://www.hardware.fr/articles/962...entations.html

Mind you, none of the product is more than 2 years old because EU law only requires their source to take product back from customers during the first two years (wish the U.S. had the same kind of consumer protection laws!)

Corsair would quickly go out of business if they had a 19% failure rate (11 out of 57) on a product they're only making 15 to 20 points of margin on.

And I have to ask, how does a PSU "act strangely"? Doesn't always power on when you press the power button on the case? Because that would be a motherboard issue, not a PSU issue. I'm truly curious.
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  #17  
Old 08-06-2020, 02:48 PM
jonnyguru jonnyguru is offline
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Originally Posted by jayhall0315 View Post
I can also 100% confirm that the Power On Self Test is not accurate. Pressing the fan self test button on the back of my HX1200i does indeed spin the fan just fine on a completely dead unit :)

Because it's not a power on self test. It's just a fan test. The +5VSB is always live on an ATX PSU. This provides power to the fan for self test. If they didn't use the +5VSB, they couldn't have a fan test that worked even if the PC was off.
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  #18  
Old 08-06-2020, 03:07 PM
jayhall0315 jayhall0315 is offline
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Originally Posted by jonnyguru View Post
Because it's not a power on self test. It's just a fan test. The +5VSB is always live on an ATX PSU. This provides power to the fan for self test. If they didn't use the +5VSB, they couldn't have a fan test that worked even if the PC was off.
Yeah sure Jonny, you and I understand that, but that is what is written in the instructional HX1200i pamphlet. A newer user with less experience though is likely to be fooled if for example their unit was damaged during shipping but the power on self test is working. They would then naturally assume things are good to go and wire up everything only to be left in bad spirits wondering why the motherboard will not POST. I think Corsair should include a mandatory jumper block for the ATX 24 pin header to confirm everything is alright for new users.

As to our lab computers, it is a mix. ~ 30% are desktops, 30% are more for software development and ~40% are machines running Quadro cards for nn modeling. Our lab has had particularly horrible results with AX units. We will not use them anymore.

As to my wife's old computer, the Corsair unit was exhibiting random failures. It took several days to eventually narrow the problem down to the PSU (we initially thought it was a bad EVGA graphics card). We replaced it with an Antec unit and the desktop continued to work fine for three more years until we upgraded all the hardware.
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Last edited by jayhall0315; 08-06-2020 at 03:22 PM.
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  #19  
Old 08-06-2020, 03:35 PM
LeDoyen LeDoyen is offline
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Depending on the type of lab, there can be external causes for that too.
In factories, the mains supplies are usually well separated, but in labs we see some horrors sometimes. Like electronics frying because there's big inverters, motors, high power RF generators on the same mains used for more delicate electronics.
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  #20  
Old 08-06-2020, 04:07 PM
jonnyguru jonnyguru is offline
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Depending on the type of lab, there can be external causes for that too.
In factories, the mains supplies are usually well separated, but in labs we see some horrors sometimes. Like electronics frying because there's big inverters, motors, high power RF generators on the same mains used for more delicate electronics.
Excellent point.

My mains are pretty clean, but in the office we always use a Chroma power source regardless. And at home I use a gigantic rackmount Trip-Lite Isobar. :D
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  #21  
Old 08-06-2020, 04:10 PM
jonnyguru jonnyguru is offline
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Originally Posted by jayhall0315 View Post
Yeah sure Jonny, you and I understand that, but that is what is written in the instructional HX1200i pamphlet.
I'm looking at the pamphlet now.

Top of page 8.

It says it's a fan self-test multiple times. It says nothing about being a PSU test.
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  #22  
Old 08-06-2020, 05:38 PM
LeDoyen LeDoyen is offline
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Originally Posted by jonnyguru View Post
Excellent point.

My mains are pretty clean, but in the office we always use a Chroma power source regardless. And at home I use a gigantic rackmount Trip-Lite Isobar. :D
Mine is behind a Furman PL8C i used for music (got rid of ground noises and pops.. our mains go as low as 190V in winter here.. 235 in summer.. it's a mess, super unstable and lots of spikes when heaters kick in and stop). Mains shenanigans kills things..
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  #23  
Old 08-06-2020, 05:44 PM
jonnyguru jonnyguru is offline
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Originally Posted by LeDoyen View Post
Mine is behind a Furman PL8C i used for music (got rid of ground noises and pops.. our mains go as low as 190V in winter here.. 235 in summer.. it's a mess, super unstable and lots of spikes when heaters kick in and stop). Mains shenanigans kills things..
Sounds like you need a Tesla Powerwall after your meter. LOL!
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  #24  
Old 08-06-2020, 09:37 PM
LeDoyen LeDoyen is offline
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the whole neighborhood is overloading the local transformer. Used to have lots of power cuts in winter. What i need is a friggin tokamak!
That said, the HX850 didn't mind at all, and the 1200i couldn't care less either.

One thing i always wondered.. the mains voltage readout is a readout? or does it only display high voltage as 230 and low as 120?
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  #25  
Old 08-07-2020, 06:14 PM
jonnyguru jonnyguru is offline
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Originally Posted by LeDoyen View Post
One thing i always wondered.. the mains voltage readout is a readout? or does it only display high voltage as 230 and low as 120?
The AXi shows actual input voltage. HXi and RMi only shows hi or low as 115V or 230V.
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  #26  
Old 08-16-2020, 03:23 PM
jayhall0315 jayhall0315 is offline
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Just leaving a posting for others to see how this case resolved:

HX1200i went dead on July 28th, 2020

Filed for an advance replacement and paid by credit card on July, 30th.

Advanced replacement HX1200i came very quickly on August 4th, 2020. (That particular rig would have been down for one week if I had reinstalled the new HX1200i as soon as I received it.)

5 stars to Corsair for their quick advance replacement option and for several support members who emailed me promptly with the correct details to get the return processed. Well done on the warranty end Corsair! Much better than 3 or 4 weeks that many competitors likely offer, so kudos for that service. I am also glad this forum has Jonny and I believe Corsair is trying to improve their PSU support options.

That said, our lab has experienced several Corsair PSU failures in the last three years, including a fair percentage of the AX units that we used to use. On August 1st, I went to our department's store room and signed for a 1200 watt PSU (from a competitor brand to Corsair). I installed it that day with no issues.
The reason I had originally chosen the HX1200i for one of my home rigs is bc it seemed like more of a workhorse without the temperamental electrical engineering issues of the AX line, and then that unit too failed about 28 months in. I just can't have that on a near-mission-critical rig. Because of this, I am choosing to go with a competitor for the short term and see how that works out. That competitor does not have the iCUE enabled monitoring of the PSU by USB cable offered by Corsair but that works out just fine for me, .... I actually prefer a rock solid unit that works versus one that may or may not, especially with the ever erratic iCUE. (iCUE has improved over the last two years but it always gives me an uneasy feeling and early versions of this software caused CTD and BSOD. I also do not like that the install takes up more than 1 GB of drive space.)

I have a plethora of Corsair enabled parts in my PCs, ... and I like them. I plan to buy more high-end Corsair hardware in the future, ... just not any more PSUs. If there is anything I would urge Jonny and Corsair to consider, .... it would be the exact electrical engineering design of the PSUs. The design specs have ... issues. If all the design work is done by poorly paid Seasonic electrical engineers in Taiwan, who in the United States is overseeing that work and making sure the designs are rock solid? I suspect there are few if any real electrical engineers in Fremont, CA who are actually overseeing the designs and correcting the errors. I mean no disrespect to Jonny, but I remain skeptical that the overall failure rate of Seasonic (Corsair) PSUs is under 1%. I have a Swiss Army knife my grandfather gave to me that was made in the 1960's I believe, ... still works as well today as the day it was made. No reason that higher end Corsair PSUs cannot be engineered to almost the same levels, ... if corporate is willing to pay qualified U.S. engineers $140,000 a year to correct the designs. I have a feeling that if you calculate the return rate and loss, it is cheaper just to pay the standard Bay Area salary for a highly qualified engineering team.

Something to consider .....
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Last edited by jayhall0315; 08-17-2020 at 03:52 AM.
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