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  #1  
Old 03-26-2020, 01:45 PM
Logan7o2 Logan7o2 is offline
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Default Using ML 120 pro & QL 120 RGB in Push/Pull Config?

Hello,

I currently have a watercooled PC. At the moment, I am running 6x QL120 fans. 3x on a 40mm rad, and 3x on a 60mm rad. I will be adding a 3rd rad and since I won't be seeing those fans I will be putting 3x ML120 pros on them. Here is my question. On the 60mm rad, for best efficiency at low rpm, I need to run it under a push/pull config. With that being said, could I run ML 120s and QL 120s on that rad if I run them at the same rpm? The ML will be on the bottom of the rad and won't really be seen much so I don't need them to be RGB or anything.

Thanks,
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Old 03-26-2020, 02:04 PM
c-attack c-attack is offline
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Physically it works. The only people that might be annoyed are those that agonize over fan tone at moderate to high speed. Sometimes you get some weird air play between different blade designs. However, that does not seem to be what you are after and on a 60mm thick radiator it is less likely than a 30mm.

I am running a push-pull stack of LL120 + ML120 right now on a 360x30mm. The ML are the best paired out of the 5 different designs I have tested. The LL and QL have the same blade, so I would expect it to be a good match as well.
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Old 03-26-2020, 02:48 PM
Logan7o2 Logan7o2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c-attack View Post
Physically it works. The only people that might be annoyed are those that agonize over fan tone at moderate to high speed. Sometimes you get some weird air play between different blade designs. However, that does not seem to be what you are after and on a 60mm thick radiator it is less likely than a 30mm.

I am running a push-pull stack of LL120 + ML120 right now on a 360x30mm. The ML are the best paired out of the 5 different designs I have tested. The LL and QL have the same blade, so I would expect it to be a good match as well.

Thanks for the reply! I am looking against getting the LL as the QL's have given me enough cables to deal with. I wanted to go to the ML for the lack of RGB and easier cable management as the back of my case is already in shambles lol. Maybe you have some thought on this. I plan on running the fans at semi low rpm. Since the ML's have better static pressure than the QL's, would it be better to have the ML in push running at a lower rpm than the QL in pull? I started to think if they were running at the same rpm, the ML would be pushing more air than the QL would be able to pull.
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Old 03-26-2020, 04:45 PM
c-attack c-attack is offline
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Sorry, I tacked that on rather casually at the end. Since LL + ML = good and LL = QL, then QL + ML = good. Now that I have finished that horrifying example of inductive reasoning, we can move on.

It won't matter which side has QL vs ML, at least in terms of there interaction with each and the radiator. That is additive. If one side is not pulling its weight, then it becomes resistance for the other, regardless of which is push or pull. The end result is the odd noise I referenced above. However for most fans (unless extremely poorly paired), you need to crank up the speed to reach that kind of force and difference. You won't see this at speeds less than 1000 rpm ever and you will not encounter it with this QL + ML up to 1300 rpm. I have tested that thoroughly.

Where you can see some difference in terms of acoustics is the relationship and distance of the fan blade to either the case, dust filter, or anything else close to the blade. So for example, the ML theoretically might make more noise against the "long slot bottom" of an O11 because its blade is flatter and more of that blade passes over the unique bottom pattern. A blade with more angle (like the QL/LL) probably makes less noise. A fan like the AF120 with a thin and steep blades might make the least. Of course, it is the low angle and width of the blade that makes the ML better on a radiator than a AF or QL. That is the trade-off. Compare that to running them as intake or exhaust on the vertical side panel where the fan is not resting against the case panel and you get almost nothing at all. However, since the underlying premise of your placement is aesthetic, it is what it is. Since we are talking about the 60mm, this must be top or bottom. I don't think you can get away with that on the vertical.

No, I wouldn't buy any more RGB for what you can't see. The ML I am using for this are RGB, but not plugged in. The wires dangle out the back and drive me nuts. Well apt question. I may join you in the XL + QL experiment. I am getting a little bored and want to build something. I spent the morning working out what I would do and this is one of the candidates.
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Old 03-26-2020, 05:38 PM
Logan7o2 Logan7o2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c-attack View Post
Sorry, I tacked that on rather casually at the end. Since LL + ML = good and LL = QL, then QL + ML = good. Now that I have finished that horrifying example of inductive reasoning, we can move on.

It won't matter which side has QL vs ML, at least in terms of there interaction with each and the radiator. That is additive. If one side is not pulling its weight, then it becomes resistance for the other, regardless of which is push or pull. The end result is the odd noise I referenced above. However for most fans (unless extremely poorly paired), you need to crank up the speed to reach that kind of force and difference. You won't see this at speeds less than 1000 rpm ever and you will not encounter it with this QL + ML up to 1300 rpm. I have tested that thoroughly.

Where you can see some difference in terms of acoustics is the relationship and distance of the fan blade to either the case, dust filter, or anything else close to the blade. So for example, the ML theoretically might make more noise against the "long slot bottom" of an O11 because its blade is flatter and more of that blade passes over the unique bottom pattern. A blade with more angle (like the QL/LL) probably makes less noise. A fan like the AF120 with a thin and steep blades might make the least. Of course, it is the low angle and width of the blade that makes the ML better on a radiator than a AF or QL. That is the trade-off. Compare that to running them as intake or exhaust on the vertical side panel where the fan is not resting against the case panel and you get almost nothing at all. However, since the underlying premise of your placement is aesthetic, it is what it is. Since we are talking about the 60mm, this must be top or bottom. I don't think you can get away with that on the vertical.

No, I wouldn't buy any more RGB for what you can't see. The ML I am using for this are RGB, but not plugged in. The wires dangle out the back and drive me nuts. Well apt question. I may join you in the XL + QL experiment. I am getting a little bored and want to build something. I spent the morning working out what I would do and this is one of the candidates.


You sir have gone above and beyond in answering my questions and concerns. You are correct with the 60mm at the bottom. So the ML would be on bottom in a push config sending air to the case, and would definitely be under 1300rpm. I would most likely keep all fans around 1000rpm. I originally had the regular o11d, and it was a blast to build in, but I wanted an easier time to fit 3 rads which is my current pursuit. At the moment, I'm just rocking the 1x40mm and 1x60mm with a distro plate. I love the look of the plate but draining the system is a pain in the ***. I'll be switching back to my singularity res when I add the additional rad. Building in the XL is easy. It also has "plug and play" ssd/HDD drives which are great, but also has the ability to remove the drives giving you more space in the back if need be. The ONLY complaint I have is the slits for air. They are quite small and seem to be a little restrictive(which is why I am looking into push/pull). Other than that, it's a damn great case.

Thank you again sir. I really appreciate it.
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  #6  
Old 03-26-2020, 07:02 PM
c-attack c-attack is offline
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Yup, that is my sentiments as well. I have an O11D going now and I built it as a concept piece to prove you could a passive intake (bottom/rear), 2x360 exhaust with only 6 case fans. It works fairly well and is a smidge cooler than my 10x140mm push-pull 2x280mm build. However, there is a definite airflow restriction using the vertical side panel as exhaust. Going push pull on that radiator had an unnatural improvement, leading me to have to retest it about 10 times before I believed it. Pulling the small side glass off will drop the coolant -2C in 30 seconds and I am too much of maximizer to let that go. I want do the reverse in the XL with bottom + side 360mm intake, then low speed top/rear exhaust. That clearly sets up for QL fans to show off the rear and I just ordered them.
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