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  #16  
Old 04-18-2008, 04:06 AM
TomGu TomGu is offline
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Derek -
Thank you for the helpful response.
Got CPU-Z, OCCT, Real Temp, & MemTest.
Under MIB Intelligent Tweaker, I find all parameters as described except "Hi Speed DRAM DLL Settings = Option 2" which does not appear on the BIOS screen or in our motherboard manual. Is this something critical?
Unfortunately, the RAID controllers (Intel & Gigabyte - I'm using both) on the GA-EP35-DS4 (I have the latest bios loaded) have issues with MemTest.
See http://forum.x86-secret.com/showthread.php?t=7882
I can disable both raid controllers in the BIOS but am concerned with "degrading" the current RAID arrays as mentioned in the referenced thread. FYI, the memtest CD that I burned is in another system presently working fine so I have confirmed the burn of the MemTst ISO image is valid. Appreciate your assistance.
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  #17  
Old 04-18-2008, 03:46 PM
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Shut the system down and remove the SATA power to all your hard drives and leave the optical drive connected. This will disable RAID on both controllers, yet not degrade the arrays since they are not there and since no changes to your BIOS are needed. Boot to the Memtest CD. Do not worry about the settings you can not find. Different BIOS revisions can change settings somewhat and some are also generic. If they are not on your board BIOS characteristics, then just ignore them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomGu View Post
Derek -
Thank you for the helpful response.
Got CPU-Z, OCCT, Real Temp, & MemTest.
Under MIB Intelligent Tweaker, I find all parameters as described except "Hi Speed DRAM DLL Settings = Option 2" which does not appear on the BIOS screen or in our motherboard manual. Is this something critical?
Unfortunately, the RAID controllers (Intel & Gigabyte - I'm using both) on the GA-EP35-DS4 (I have the latest bios loaded) have issues with MemTest.
See http://forum.x86-secret.com/showthread.php?t=7882
I can disable both raid controllers in the BIOS but am concerned with "degrading" the current RAID arrays as mentioned in the referenced thread. FYI, the memtest CD that I burned is in another system presently working fine so I have confirmed the burn of the MemTst ISO image is valid. Appreciate your assistance.
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  #18  
Old 04-19-2008, 06:18 AM
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Attached are CPU-z screenshots (and RealTemp screenshot just after installing Real Temp - have not yet run OCCT).
Why is the ram voltage shown at 1.8 on the CPU-z memory tab screen when we applied an additional .3V in the bios to bring the ram up to 2.1V?
No joy on MemTest after disconnecting power to hard disks.
Raid drivers still attempt to load before CD access then system hangs with the message "loading ..." as described in the thread referenced in my last post.
The option to disable the raid controllers in the bios and degrade the arrays is unappealing unless we are stalled in the effort to reach 4GHz without feedback from MemTest.
Why the increase to the (G)MCH OverVoltage Control (Southbridge?) by +01?
Just trying to understand the thought process.
Thanks again.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg cpu_memory.jpg (112.9 KB, 343 views)
File Type: jpg spd_realtemp.jpg (93.7 KB, 339 views)
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  #19  
Old 04-19-2008, 11:26 AM
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First screen shot is OCCT about halfway complete. The second is following completion when temps had returned to "normal". Glad to get the "stable" message.
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File Type: jpg occtinprogress.jpg (132.8 KB, 319 views)
File Type: jpg occtcomplete.jpg (138.3 KB, 310 views)
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  #20  
Old 04-19-2008, 02:59 PM
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Very nice temps. The DRAM voltage is being shown as 1.8 in the SPD tab. That does not show the current voltage, just the JEDEC standard for 800Mhz 5-5-5-18 2T. This DRAM is capable of more than JEDEC and as such needs more advanced timings, speed and voltage.

You can't test your memory so what ever you choose to do will be hampered by this. You can test the DRAM at 1066Mhz in another system to be certain that it runs clean though. That's an alternative that might be more appealing to you. By the way, I disconnect RAID control often when I want to test my hard drives. Never an error.

That's pretty dense DRAM (2048 modules) and a high overclock of the FSB. It's not a bad idea to give the MCH/Northbridge (Memory Controller Hub) a bit of juice greater than stock. Also keep in mind, that when you set to +.1v you also remove "Auto" which is an indiscriminate setting based on an algorithm and activated via DAC. This will keep your MCH at a single value which is better when overclocking highly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomGu View Post
Attached are CPU-z screenshots (and RealTemp screenshot just after installing Real Temp - have not yet run OCCT).
Why is the ram voltage shown at 1.8 on the CPU-z memory tab screen when we applied an additional .3V in the bios to bring the ram up to 2.1V?
No joy on MemTest after disconnecting power to hard disks.
Raid drivers still attempt to load before CD access then system hangs with the message "loading ..." as described in the thread referenced in my last post.
The option to disable the raid controllers in the bios and degrade the arrays is unappealing unless we are stalled in the effort to reach 4GHz without feedback from MemTest.
Why the increase to the (G)MCH OverVoltage Control (Southbridge?) by +01?
Just trying to understand the thought process.
Thanks again.
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  #21  
Old 04-19-2008, 05:26 PM
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Right, Northbridge on the +.1v, not Southbridge.
So, I am now at the point that could have avoided by purchasing the 1066 mhz ram but did not do so because of the reports of issues between the EP35-DS4 and 1066 mhz ram.
Increasing the CPU Host Frequency to 445 and the System Memory Multiplier to 2.4 simply forces the 800mhz ram to run at 1066 mhz,no?
Won't the same issues appear with 800 mhz ram overclocked to 1066 mhz that other users reported with "true" 1066 mhz ram in the EP35-DS4?
I guess my question is "have I reached the overclocking limits of the hardware I assembled?"
Seems so.
Again, words of thanks for your interest.
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  #22  
Old 04-19-2008, 06:36 PM
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My mistake. Please exchange 800Mhz for 1066Mhz. I was under the mistaken view that you had 1066Mhz DRAM.

I would not attempt 1066Mhz on that DRAM. I would leave them at stock as high density DRAM does NOT overclock very well. If you are going to attempt overclocks on the DRAM, then raise the timings to 5-5-5-15 and try for 900 - 950Mhz.

445 and 2.0 on the memory and test.

Excuse my error.
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  #23  
Old 04-20-2008, 06:08 AM
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No problem on the 1066 mhz mis-speak.
Those donating their time to guide the less informed are granted special privileges in their postings :)
So, your suggestion is to NOT push the Twin2X4096-6400C4DHX to 1066 mhz.
But IF I am going to overclock the CPU further (from its present speed of 400 mhz to 445 mhz), then you suggest leaving the "system memory multiplier" at its present setting of 2, and the DDR2 Overvoltage control at its present setting of +.3, but adjust the ram timings to 5, 5, 5, 15 and hope the 800 mhz Corsair ram will support 890 mhz to allow a 1:1 cpu / ram timing ratio?
Or am I setting an asynchronous cpu / ram timing ratio since the ram is 800 mhz and I am specifying a frequency for the ram of 890 mhz?
Either way, the issue of adjusting the "CPU Voltage Control" in the bios to support the increase in cpu speed from 400 mhz to 445 mhz must be addressed.
The bios presently reports a "Normal CPU VCore of 1.22500V, which I assume to be correct since no adjusments have yet been made to the CPU voltage (range of "CPU Voltage Control" options in the bios is .70000 to 2.35000 which appear to be "total numbers" meaning they replace the current CPU Voltage setting, NOT add to it - RIGHT?)
I have seen recommendations (http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...VIEWTMP=Linear) [by JAG87 at 5:55pm on 2/27/08] of "approximately 1.3v for 'good' e8400s, 1.35v for 'average 8400s, and 1.4v for 'bad' 8400s" at 4GHz but all those specluating on what voltage a particular e8400 takes to achieve 4GHz say it is "trial and error".
What's your suggestion on the cpu voltage for 445 mhz setting?
Any other adjustments required before trying for 4 ghz?
Once again, thanks for your insight.
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  #24  
Old 04-20-2008, 03:50 PM
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Yes, a 445Mhz CPU FSB and a 890MHz DRAM speed should be seeable and stable on your OS. I would memtest before entering Windows and allow for two full passes. You do not want to take the chance of corrupting software if the DRAM will not take that speed. If you pass Memtest, then you can test the CPU with OCCT or Prime95. Since you have already tested the Memory, you do not need to use OCCT or Prime with DRAM testing, just the CPU. 445 FSB and 445 DRAM will give you the 1:1 ratio with ~4.0GHz.

I have found that 1.33 - 1.37V to be enough for such a CPU overclock. I have installed three Xeon 3110's and two E8400's. Two in the house atm. One makes 4.0 with 1.35v (BIOS) and 1.34v (Windows) (P5K Premium P35 chipset), the other makes 1.375v (BIOS) 1.36v (Windows) ASUS Maximus modded to Rampage Formula X38 chipset). Both with VDrop mod and Loadline Calibration enabled.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TomGu View Post
No problem on the 1066 mhz mis-speak.
Those donating their time to guide the less informed are granted special privileges in their postings :)
So, your suggestion is to NOT push the Twin2X4096-6400C4DHX to 1066 mhz.
But IF I am going to overclock the CPU further (from its present speed of 400 mhz to 445 mhz), then you suggest leaving the "system memory multiplier" at its present setting of 2, and the DDR2 Overvoltage control at its present setting of +.3, but adjust the ram timings to 5, 5, 5, 15 and hope the 800 mhz Corsair ram will support 890 mhz to allow a 1:1 cpu / ram timing ratio?
Or am I setting an asynchronous cpu / ram timing ratio since the ram is 800 mhz and I am specifying a frequency for the ram of 890 mhz?
Either way, the issue of adjusting the "CPU Voltage Control" in the bios to support the increase in cpu speed from 400 mhz to 445 mhz must be addressed.
The bios presently reports a "Normal CPU VCore of 1.22500V, which I assume to be correct since no adjusments have yet been made to the CPU voltage (range of "CPU Voltage Control" options in the bios is .70000 to 2.35000 which appear to be "total numbers" meaning they replace the current CPU Voltage setting, NOT add to it - RIGHT?)
I have seen recommendations (http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...VIEWTMP=Linear) [by JAG87 at 5:55pm on 2/27/08] of "approximately 1.3v for 'good' e8400s, 1.35v for 'average 8400s, and 1.4v for 'bad' 8400s" at 4GHz but all those specluating on what voltage a particular e8400 takes to achieve 4GHz say it is "trial and error".
What's your suggestion on the cpu voltage for 445 mhz setting?
Any other adjustments required before trying for 4 ghz?
Once again, thanks for your insight.

Last edited by DerekT; 04-20-2008 at 03:54 PM.
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  #25  
Old 04-22-2008, 03:01 AM
TomGu TomGu is offline
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Researching "load line calibration", I found this: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=3184&p=6
Guess everyone has an opinion.
Just thought you would be interested.
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  #26  
Old 04-22-2008, 03:16 AM
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I've read this report. However, if one keeps in mind that the load line calibration disabled is intended for use in non overclocked systems and is inserted as a tool for those who wish to find a stability at a lower voltage, then its use is a good thing. Keep in mind that you are overclocking your system. Also keep in mind that this setting is one that has been inserted by system board design engineers who have overclockers in mind. They are far more advanced in the realistic use of this setting and that overclockers are not looking for ten years of CPU use.

However, if you are one of those who is looking for the longest term use of your system then I advise you to disabled load line. Disable any and all increases of any and all voltages. Purchase JEDEC standard 1.8v DRAM and enjoy your non overclocked system for longer than the five or more years than I expect my load line enabled 4.0Ghz Xeon 3110 to last.

I disagree with Kris. I have seen great differences in voltage necessary to run at load with load line enabled. I have two systems that run 24/7 and which are highly overclocked and are 45nm. I have modded for VDrop and load line for Vdroop. For him to say "Clearly, removing Vdroop gains us nothing and only serves to create problems that are more serious" shows me that he is NOT an enthusiast or he would see the real world differences when enabled or when boards are physically Vdroop modded. Anyone can show how schematics are supposed to work, but that is NOT the real world. Remember the Pentium 4 Prescott? It was supposed to reach 6+Ghz and never made it past 3.8Ghz. Theory showed 6+GHz. Reality showed a far different result.

At any rate. I know what I see and what the differential is and you can make whatever choice you wish.

You may wish to research real sites of overclockers and enthusiasts who dwell in the real world of products rather than some of these blogging technoboobles who know little of reality but who are bounded in theoretics.

A few sites of real world enthusiasts:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...line+Anandtech

www.xtremesystems.com
www.ocforums.com

And make your own choice.

Edit:

Power requirements and thermals are tied together btw.


Last edited by DerekT; 04-22-2008 at 03:27 AM.
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  #27  
Old 04-22-2008, 10:11 AM
TomGu TomGu is offline
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Appreciate the explanation but didn't mean to raise an irritating issue.
FWIW, the manual shows loadline calibration to be enabled by default and I have not changed it. Assume the VDrop mod you refer to is the "pencil mod"? Have not done that yet.
Would like to clarify your prior comment: "It's not a bad idea to give the MCH/Northbridge (Memory Controller Hub) a bit of juice greater than stock. Also keep in mind, that when you set to +.1v you also remove "Auto" which is an indiscriminate setting based on an algorithm and activated via DAC. This will keep your MCH at a single value which is better when overclocking highly."
The manual shows "Normal" for the (G)MCH OverVoltageControl default. I interpret "normal" to mean "no change" from the default voltage but it seems you are saying "normal=auto" which allows system algorithms to adjust the MCH (and other voltages) dynamically unless a value is assigned. Please clarify this as I prefer to "set" a value if the default of "normal" is going to allow changes without my knowledge.
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  #28  
Old 04-22-2008, 10:46 AM
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You are running your system with a fairly high overclock and are running with dense DRAM. For that reason I believe a +.1v raise of the MCH will have two characteristics. One will be to stop voltage fluctuations that normally occur on a non overclocked systems and which are not a healthy thing in an overclocked system. The electrostatic ripple effects on a non overclocked system are far different than on an overclocked system and so by setting a lightly higher static voltage, you are somewhat negating the effect. Secondly, you are allowing for a minimally higher baseline voltage which will help the memory controller when awaiting a DRAM refresh. Normal does NOT mean static. Normal means interpretive and the interpretation is based on a non-overclocked system. Which is again, why I disagree with Kris. No one other than CPU design board testing engineers can know what the actual results of the overclocked system are and Kris extrapolates. Well, extrapolation is NOT a scientific principle grounded in reality. It is based on a statistical analysis referenced on possibilities. I would say that the if --> then else extrapolation might well have multiples of "Else" and not a single threaded result. For this reason, theory will never be a surety until actually tested at the relativistic level and of which Kris has no response. However, in the enthusiast arena there is the response of thousands of users and their results. I personally prefer the thousands, nay millions of users who have demanded that their enthusiast motherboards have features that their use have shown to be beneficial. This is why many boards are modded with voltage pots by enthusiasts. It is to gain a control of the static voltage and bypass the multiple voltage identification algorithms that many chipsets now employ and which are good for non overclocked and low end mainboards with low end transistors/capacitors, etc.

Your board is not one of those. Your system is not one of those, therefore I personally believe that it is beneficial for you to test all your voltages and manually set them.
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  #29  
Old 04-22-2008, 11:58 AM
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Presently setting DDR2 OverVoltage Control and (G)MCH OverVoltage Control and plan to set CPU Voltage Control when moving from 3.6 Ghz to 4Ghz. Presently not setting (on purpose I thought) PCI-E OverVoltage Control and FSB OverVoltage Control but are leaving them at "normal". Do I need to set a value (even if the lowest optional value) for PCI-E OverVoltage Control and FSB OverVoltage Control to prevent the "system" from dynamically modifying them to values I do not want?
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  #30  
Old 04-22-2008, 12:02 PM
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Many say that you do not, but I set all those voltages to the minimum personally. Call me a control freak

Quote:
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Presently setting DDR2 OverVoltage Control and (G)MCH OverVoltage Control and plan to set CPU Voltage Control when moving from 3.6 Ghz to 4Ghz. Presently not setting (on purpose I thought) PCI-E OverVoltage Control and FSB OverVoltage Control but are leaving them at "normal". Do I need to set a value (even if the lowest optional value) for PCI-E OverVoltage Control and FSB OverVoltage Control to prevent the "system" from dynamically modifying them to values I do not want?
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