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Old 01-29-2013, 06:12 AM
AndroidAndy AndroidAndy is offline
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Sigh.. HP Envy 17t-3200 with CMSX16GX3M2A1600C10 Compatibility

Hello, I had these 2 x 8GB SO-DIMM DDR3 1600MHz Modules in my Envy 17t-3200 for about 2.5 months with no problems. About 2 weeks ago I noticed random program errors and several blue screens. The processor in this laptop is an Intel Core i7-3720QM 2.60 MHz 3rd Generation Ivy Bridge.

I already submitted and received an RMA from CORSAIR, but before I send this in, I want to make sure this memory is really compatible with the HP Envy 17t-3200? First off, this model is not in the CORSAIR memory configurator, also, I couldn't find much support information ( none really ) regarding SO-DIMM support for any 3rd Generation Intel processors. My Windows 7 has the 3rd Gen Core Processor DRAM Controller -0154 driver version 9.3.0.1011 and motherboard uses the Intel HM76 Express Chipset.

I have not talked to HP directly about compatible memory, but the included memory is working fine after swapping out the two CORSAIR SO-DIMMS. I have gone to a competitors website ( Cxxxxal ) and they have a match with a HP Envy 17t-3200 CTO ( not sure what CTO is or if my laptop is CTO? ), and the match has a WARNING Maximum memory using PC3-12800 (DDR3-1600) is 8192MB. Then the requirement is for 16GB you would need to use the 16GB kit (8GBx2) DDR3 PC3-10600 • CL=9 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR3-1333 • 1.35V • 1024Meg x 64.

So does Cxxxxal know something that CORSAIR and I don't know, is this truly a problem? Maybe the "CTO" is for some other type of hardware that I don't have? I could have ordered the laptop with 16GB of high speed 1600 DDR3 RAM from HP, but I chose to upgrade myself with the CORSAIR product.

Not sure if I should just get my replacement with the RMA for this machine and try again, or if this memory is just not compatible with my system configuration? If it is just not going to work, then what are my options, could I ( or should I ) get the slower 1333 memory kit?

Would CORSAIR be able to add the HP Envy 17t-3200 to the memory configurator on the website? Not sure what to do, but for now, my system seems to be purring with the original 6GB high speed 1600MHz memory that it shipped with. So I would rather wait for a thorough and specific answer before processing the RMA for the exchange of the same product that may or may not be compatible with my hardware configuration. Thanks for shedding some light on this.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
So does Cxxxxal know something that CORSAIR and I don't know, is this truly a problem? Maybe the "CTO" is for some other type of hardware that I don't have? I could have ordered the laptop with 16GB of high speed 1600 DDR3 RAM from HP, but I chose to upgrade myself with the CORSAIR product.
Nope...Believe it or not it stands for Chlorine, Taste and odor...So i'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this is a new standard for consumer products and or has to do with re-furbed systems being sold. OR even a system that was custom configured when ordered.

At least that's what these two links point to.... But neither really gives a definitive answer. HP could tell you for sure though! :)
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3931
http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-c...do-i-have.html

Quote:
I have not talked to HP directly about compatible memory, but the included memory is working fine after swapping out the two CORSAIR SO-DIMMS. I have gone to a competitors website ( Cxxxxal ) and they have a match with a HP Envy 17t-3200 CTO ( not sure what CTO is or if my laptop is CTO? ), and the match has a WARNING Maximum memory using PC3-12800 (DDR3-1600) is 8192MB. Then the requirement is for 16GB you would need to use the 16GB kit (8GBx2) DDR3 PC3-10600 • CL=9 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR3-1333 • 1.35V • 1024Meg x 64.
What this says is that if you want the to use the faster memory , you would be limited to 8gigs Or that the MB in your laptop can only run 8 gigs at 1600mhz. But if you wanted to use the full 16gig's then you would be limited to a speed of 1333mhz. It has nothing to do with any particular brand of memory but more than how much load on the memory controller your laptop is capable of handling.
This information can also be found in the product manual for your laptop as well
http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c03317166.pdf
Quote:
Memory 2 customer-accessible/upgradable memory module slots
DDR3-1333-MHz and DDR3-1600-MHz dual channel support
Supports up to 16384-GB of system RAM @ 1333-MHz, supports up to 8192-GB of system RAM
@ 1600-MHz,

Supports the following configurations:
● 16384-MB total system memory (8192×2 @ 1600- and 1333-MHz)
● 12288-MB total system memory (8192×1 + 4096×1 @ 1600- and 1333-MHz)
● 8192-MB total system memory (8192×1 @ 1600- and 1333-MHz, or 4096×2 @ 1600- and
1333-MHz)
● 6144-MB total system memory (4096×1 + 2048×1 @ 1600-MHz)
● 4096-MB total system memory (4096×1 @ 1600- and 1333-MHz, or 2048×2 @ 1600-MHz)



It is a hardware limitation ,not memory. And most laptops do not have the necessary BIOS adjustments needed to compensate for that increased load on the memory controller. 16gigs at 1600mhz is going to be more load than 8 gigs at 1600mhz. So to account for that they drop the speed to 1333mhz instead of allowing you to adjust system voltages manually. But if you notice the sections highlighted in red, the manual has conflicting information that I think is actually a typo. I tend to believe what you found on the competitor site as far as the speed goes... 16gigs can only be achieved with a speed of 1333mhz. This is also something that you might want to get confirmation from HP first though.

At any rate the memory SHOULD be compatible. The vengeance series was designed and tested around the 2nd and 3rd gen Intel CPU's . So that should not the issue.

With all that on the table, Check HP's site to see if there are any BIOS updates available and update if there is one. Then remove your old memory ,clear your BIOS, (also found in the manual)and then try inserting just one of the Corsair modules and see if you can get them to run that way. If so, then you can try adding the second stick.

You might also want to test the memory with memtest(link in the left side bar) just to be sure you do not have a failing stick out of the kit. Load set-up defaults and then boot to the memtest CD or USB key which ever you choose and let each stick run individually for about three passes or until you get an error. There is no point letting it run any longer if it does. Then test the other stick in the same manor.
Quote:
Not sure if I should just get my replacement with the RMA for this machine and try again, or if this memory is just not compatible with my system configuration? If it is just not going to work, then what are my options, could I ( or should I ) get the slower 1333 memory kit?
When you first instal new memory it usually defaults to 1333mhz, unless your LT has the feature that detects the faster memory and tries to set them to 1600mhz on it's own. That information I could not find in your manual so this might be something to call and ask HP directly. You may have no choice but to return them and get the 1333mhz kit if they can not be set to run at that speed in the BIOS.


Let us know how you make out or if you need help with memtest!
Cheers!
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Last edited by peanutz94; 01-29-2013 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:12 AM
AndroidAndy AndroidAndy is offline
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@peanutz94 - Thanks for all the excellent information that cleared up quite a few questions I had. Haven't talked to HP just yet because I am still digesting what you provided. I think the CTO is Configured To Order, because that was the only option on the Envy 17t-3200 models.

The information in the pdf manual seems to point to 1333MHz for 8gb modules based on the replacement part descriptions. I have a query into Cxxxxal to see if they can shed any more light on the specifications. I did notice that the Cxxxxal 8gb modules are 1333 CL9 and the 1600 modules are all CL11 ( for compatibility with the Envy 17t-3200 ). Is there a difference in that the CORSAIR Vengeance is CL10?

Unfortunately the HP BIOS is really locked down, there is almost nothing you can change. I have the latest BIOS update and I almost suspected that the memory problems started to appear after the latest BIOS update, but I can't really correlate the dates exactly.

I think you are right about the typo in the documentation. I will get a little more information and then make the call to HP support that should give me at least a fighting chance. I have my doubts that HP support is going to have all the correct information, but I will give them a chance.

As I mentioned I ran advanced diagnostics on the 2 x 8gb CORSAIR memory modules and it consistently failed. I understand the reasoning behind trying to pinpoint if it is a specific module, but it cost me more in time compared to just making a new purchase of the 1333MHz DIMMS.

Thanks for any additional information or advice you can provide.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:20 PM
AndroidAndy AndroidAndy is offline
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Still haven't contacted HP directly because I suspect their support staff are not that knowledgable about the specific technical nuances except what they might read from their own internal knowledgebase.

On the other hand I received two responses from the CORSAIR competitor and they are telling me that they can't advise exactly why this HP Envy model using 1600mhz memory can only get to 8gb as it is how the manufacturer built it. They have also stated that their recommendation comes from independent testing on this model to make sure all the memory they provide is compatible. So they ( CORSAIR competitor ) cannot guarantee compatibility when purchasing 16gb of 1600mhz RAM nor would they suggest mixing 1333 mhz with 1600 as that could easily cause boot issues with the system.

Too bad CORSAIR can't respond with independant testing of their own? I purchased the Vengeance memory because it said it would work with any system here is a quote from Amazon where I made my purchase:

Quote:
Compatible with most laptop and notebook PCs
Vengeance laptop memory upgrade kits are designed to work with any PC or notebook which accepts standard DDR3 SODIMMs.

Optimized for Superior Performance on the Latest Laptops and Notebooks
Many laptops — even those sold as performance systems — come equipped with memory that's not capable of running at the maximum speed supported by the processor. If your notebook is equipped with a 2nd Generation Intel Core i5 or Core i7 processor, it will automatically detect the faster speed supported by the Vengeance laptop memory upgrade kit. No BIOS adjustments are necessary to take advantage of the faster memory speed.
So the question now is if CORSAIR has a truly compatible 16GB Kit that works with the HP Envy 17t-3200? If not, I don't want to be a guinea pig with the CMSX16GX3M2A1600C10 modules. The tests results from HP Advanced memory tests show a bad module, but regardless, I don't want to use this memory in this laptop as I have my suspicions that it is not compatible. So would I be able to get a refund, or a gaurantee on a replacement that is compatible with my computer? I also think the Amazon marketing information needs to change, because I don't think that Vengeance memory is compatible with every system.
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
So the question now is if CORSAIR has a truly compatible 16GB Kit that works with the HP Envy 17t-3200? If not, I don't want to be a guinea pig with the CMSX16GX3M2A1600C10 modules.
http://www.corsair.com/us/memory-by-...m2a1333c9.html
This would be your best choice. Your fighting hardware limitations , so it's not Corsairs fault that the Vengeance modules wont work with your system. It clearly states that 8 gig max would be what you could run at 1600mhz. So your facing hardware limitation in that system that have no bearing on the memory. The memory itself is compatible with that chipset. This is why they advertize that the memory is compatible with all of the latest CPU's. But Corsair has no control over the limitations HP has imposed on their systems. Dell computers are the exact same way, and this is often the case with OEM systems.

Quote:
So would I be able to get a refund, or a gaurantee on a replacement that is compatible with my computer? I also think the Amazon marketing information needs to change, because I don't think that Vengeance memory is compatible with every system.
Well , since you bought the memory from Amazon that is something you would have to take up with them. I believe if you got the 16gig 1333mhz kit you would have no issues at all. HP diagnostics showing a bad module could be caused by the hardware limitations HP imposed on that system and not necessarily a fault of the memory.

In addition, Corsair officially uses memtest to determine the sate of health of their modules because other diagnostics including Windows memory diagnostics do not always stress or utilize the memory the way Memtest does. If you want to test the modules individually with memtest that would be the way to go.
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Last edited by peanutz94; 02-02-2013 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:43 PM
AndroidAndy AndroidAndy is offline
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The real problem here is that the CMSX16GX3M2A1600C10 modules worked fine for 2.5 months then the problems started. When I ran the HP Advanced diagnostics, the error code that I reported to HP indicated a bad SO-DIMM module. So based on that report and testing combined with the fact that the modules worked flawlessly for 2.5 months, I am considering that 1 or both of the SO-DIMM modules are actually bad. So I have RMA'd the module kit, problem now is that in light of all the additional information, I am concerned that the CMSX16GX3M2A1600C10 modules may not be the best match and do not want to risk using the same replacement part in this laptop.

I think like you said testing the modules individually would likely say for sure if one or both are bad without the possibility of some timing issue. However, that is still no gaurantee of compatibility, for that it would take independant testing by CORSAIR for this laptop model and since there is no offical response from CORSAIR on this, I do not expect that to happen. This is further complicated by HP pulling this model from their lineup several months ago.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:07 PM
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According to the Specs of that system it should not be a problem with these modules and this system but I would strongly suggest testing the modules one at a time with www.memtest.org And be sure to check that you have the latest system BIOS installed and load setup defaults before you test the modules.
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Last edited by RAM GUY; 02-08-2013 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 02-08-2013, 03:53 AM
AndroidAndy AndroidAndy is offline
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@ RAM GUY - Thanks for the response, just spent some time with HP Support and they said the compatible SO-DIMMs would be:

Speed Rating PC3-12800 (1600MHz)
Voltage 1.5
Speed 1333MHz
Latency 9-9-9-24

Not sure what the Speed 1333MHz means, but maybe that is what it runs at with 16GB. The other manufacturer told me several times that 1600MHz modules are not compatible over 8GB with this "Custom To Order" laptop.

What if anything does the Latency 9-9-9-24 have to do with compatiblity compared to the Vengeance CL10 10-10-10-27? From my simple understanding, the CL9 timing is faster. However, HP said it should be 9-9-9-24, so that is straight from HP.

I have my doubts on the Vengeance compatibility, and dread testing each stick independantly, with ESD precautions and awkward location on the laptop coupled with the testing time it would take a while. Besides, HP already told me the error code indicated a memory module error, I ran their advanced diagnostics 4 times on two different occasions, same error every time.

I don't understand why there is no specific response about the affect of timing 9-9-9-24 recommended by HP versus the Vengeance 10-10-10-27?

Last edited by AndroidAndy; 02-08-2013 at 03:57 AM.
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:44 PM
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Your system may not support DDR1600 modules but that is not that big of an issue as these modules will still be able to run at DDr1333 with no problem at all, in fact if the system will post and run Windows please run CPU-Z and post a screen shot of the SPD Tab it should shows DDR1333 at Cas 9-9-9-24 as the default and DDR1600 C10 under the XMP Profile
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:16 PM
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After numerous calls into HP Support I have some resolution on this issue. HP says the memory must be DDR3 1600 at CAS 9-9-9-24. I looked carefully at the other competitor to see why they didn't support more than 1333 over 8GB and I noticed that their 16GB 1600 set is CAS11. I also remember when I installed the CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB set, I had random video blanking issues and this did not occur with the standard HP 6GB 1600 factory installed memory. I had to go ahead and purchase another 16GB DDR3 1600 set with a CAS 9-9-9-24 and so far it is working fine with no video flashing or other issues.

As I mentioned in my original post, I ran the HP advanced diagnostics and it indicated a bad memory module. Based on all the research I have done, I would not recommend using the CORSAIR CMSX16GX3M2A1600C10 2 x 8GB SO-DIMM DDR3 1600MHz Modules with the Hewlett Packard Envy 17t-3200.
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