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  #31  
Old 10-03-2007, 03:44 PM
Drezn Drezn is offline
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Very likely replaced modules will not allow you to run your 4 X 1024 @ 800MHz modules with 800MHz speeds.
Which is why there's no point in considering replacing the modules before I've had the chance to test them on my friend's system.

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Yes, your friend either got lucky or his system will sooner or later show instability. You are expecting that which is not usual.
I am expecting that which is promised on the motherboard box.
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  #32  
Old 10-03-2007, 05:09 PM
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I am expecting that which is promised on the motherboard box.
Please show where any motherboard box shows support for all four DRAM banks populated to the maximum of the DRAM modules speed. The support is for 2 banks filled at the maximum DRAM modules speed. Failing my first request, please show where any documentation/website states support for any motherboard whereby the board is capable and supportive of all four banks filled to the maximum of the DRAM's stated speed capacity.

Contact your motherboard manufacturer and see what they have to say...

Last edited by DerekT; 10-03-2007 at 05:11 PM.
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  #33  
Old 10-03-2007, 05:23 PM
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Please show where any motherboard box shows support for all four DRAM banks populated to the maximum of the DRAM modules speed. The support is for 2 banks filled at the maximum DRAM modules speed. Failing that, please show where any documentation for any motherboard states that the board is capable and supportive of all four banks filled to the maximum of the DRAM's stated speed capacity.
Please show me where it says that four modules at the full stated speed aren't an option. I haven't seen that anywhere.

I'm saying "on the box" as a general term for what's in the marketing speak, it says DDR2-800, and even DDR2-1067. It doesn't say "DDR2-800, but only for a limited amount of modules". It's not in the manual I had handy here at least... If you know where it does state a limitation, can you please show me? That would help as I've obviously missed it then.

I'm not being sarcastic either, I'm just afraid of getting into a pointless argument as is so easy on discussion boards. I'm very sorry if I'm reading you wrong and offending you mate, but I can't really tell from your tone if you're being constructive or fishing for an argument...
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  #34  
Old 10-03-2007, 05:33 PM
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I'm certainly not looking for an argument. Look to my previous posts and see if I am argumentative.

The issue here is that although the mainboard manufacturers state support for a certain DRAM speed, they do not support any and all configurations. No company does and you seem to expect that this support.

I agreed with you previously that it is somewhat implied by the nature of the statement of support, but it is not written as such. Some do make that DRAM population and configuration with tweaking. The issue is the chipset, not the DRAM. You stated previously that the version must be the issue. This is NOT the issue. The issue is that the chipset can not normally run to the full speed of the dram (when 4 banks are populated) as it can when two banks are populated. There is twice as many dram IC modules so the memory controller (not the DRAM) must slow down to await refresh cycle times and the door often closes for refresh while DRAM data is being accessed and in the process of transfer. This will bring about errors and Memtest will show the errors even if they are minimal enough so that the OS's Error Correction Code deals with them.

There are, of course, exceptions. Nvidia has a chipset that is more forgiving and upclocks itself a bit to allow this possibility, not always but more often than the less than forgiving Intel chipsets.

I will just bow out of this thread since I am not here to create dissension or arguments.

Good luck!
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  #35  
Old 10-03-2007, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by DerekT View Post
I'm certainly not looking for an argument. Look to my previous posts and see if I am argumentative.

I will just bow out of this thread since I am not here to create dissension or arguments.

Good luck!
Phew, so glad to hear that. I sincerely apologize mate, it was just the last two messages that seemed to me to have changed in tone compared to the earlier ones. It turns out I was wrong, and I'm happy for that since you've provided me with so much good feedback!

No need to bow out of the thread now that we've established who was misreading the situation and getting scared of things getting out of hand, at least not unless you've made up your mind already...

About the memory, I do get what you're saying completely. I believe you to be right about the chipset having problems in my sort of configuration, and my being miffed about that fact being kept under wraps has nothing to do with it. The reason I'm not done with this is that first of all RAM GUY isn't saying that running four modules at 800 isn't intended to work, and secondly my mate's machine is running fine.

About my mate's machine, there's no telling what will turn up when I go testing it this weekend. I will of course begin with testing if his machine is indeed stable, and then I'll see how it does with my modules.
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  #36  
Old 10-07-2007, 11:18 AM
aarbie aarbie is offline
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Angry i have exactly the same problem

Andreas
I have bene through the same pains as you. just to confirm, your part number is:CM2X1024-6400 G?

The advised me on both the P5K board and RAM config (www.scan.co.uk) and are refusing to take back the redundant pair of 1GB modules. I am left with a matched pair of modules I cannot use ;o(

RB
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  #37  
Old 10-07-2007, 05:39 PM
Drezn Drezn is offline
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I've come across a beta BIOS version 0701, the latest official one is 0603.

This beta works wonders for the stability, although it doesn't eliminate the need for more voltage when attempting to run at DDR2-800.

At DDR2-667 though, there's no need to change anything at all apart from manually setting the speed so the board doesn't auto-detect the memory as DDR2-800. Before the BIOS update, a lot of voltage tweaking on the memory modules, the north bridge, and the FSB termination was required. Even with that done, it wasn't 100% stable at DDR2-667. That's gone now, I've been testing memtest86+ for 12 hours now with no errors. It also runs flawlessly in 3DMark 2006 for hours at a time, that wasn't possible before either. I have yet to see a single problem at this speed since updating it this friday. I'll let the machine run like this the night over, and I'll call it 100% stable at DDR2-667 if I haven't been able to crash it within 24 hours of intensive testing. I'm optimistic as I haven't seen stability on this system like this before, but I won't be doing my victory dance before seeing it still running without errors tomorrow morning.

At DDR2-800, there's still a lot of tweaking needed to make it "almost" work. I ran the machine for 10 hours with the DRAM voltage at 2.1, north bridge at 1.55, and the FSB termination voltage at 1.40. Then it did crash, but that's surviving for a LOT longer than it ever has before at DDR2-800. Something has definately been improved in this BIOS. I'm thinking it would probably run with the DRAM voltage set to 2.15 or 2.2, but I won't start testing that before I've seen the machine survive 24 hours of testing at DDR2-667 so I know it's actually possible to run it stable at that speed.

Even if the machine does work at DDR2-800 at the higher voltages, I'm very much inclined to just settle for running at DDR2-667 anyway. At such a high over-volting percentage,the resulting heat and component wear doesn't seem like it's worth the small performance gain, if there is one at all. Seeing how much of a difference this beta BIOS makes, who know what the final version will do? Right now I'm happy to have what seems to be a stable system that's for sure. I've tried flashing back to the old 0603 BIOS to see for certain if it really did make a difference, and it sure did. All the problems returned, and the only medicine for that was flashing to 0701 again.

That it's working now at DDR2-667 doesn't make it all OK. For Asus to market a board as supporting DDR2-800, and not mentioning the special cases where it doesn't is simply unacceptable. It may be common sense to the tech gurus on boards like these that the chipset in reality doesn't support four memory modules at once running at full speed, but it's stated otherwise in the marketing and documentation for the P5K board. That's called false advertising no matter where you come from, and it's in seriously bad style! Shame on Asus for that, bigtime!

I have to say I feel very much vindicated at this point since it turns out it wasn't my fault that these systems weren't working. There was no way to make it run 100% stable, and then comes a BIOS update that makes it work stable with no messing about with advanced BIOS settings and voltages. When running at DDR2-667 at least...

Thanks to everyone who's been helping out, much appreciated fellas!



If anyone needs the beta bios, it can be found here:

http://rapidshare.com/files/53754875...-0701.zip.html

Don't forget, you are installing this at your own risk, and it is beta!
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  #38  
Old 10-07-2007, 06:06 PM
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I'm happy to hear that you have come to an understanding of the issue. I don't think that anyone thought you were the issue. It makes logical sense that double the DRAM capacity will lower the throughput for stability, even if people are not told that at the sales level. I agree that there should be some manufacturers education and you can imagine how many times a day I talk with people over this very issue. :( Some can be very angry and blame the DRAM, etc. Some blame me when I tell them that the DRAM is not the issue.

One good thing about ASUS is that they have more design and BIOS engineers working for them than any other motherboard manufacturer bar none! There will be more fixes and BIOS updates from ASUS than any other company. This will not change the fact that 4 banks filled will require less throughput than 2 banks filled but as you have shown, timings, voltages and most of all, bridge chip latencies can be tweaked by the BIOS updates. So really, it is a plus, not a negative. :)
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  #39  
Old 10-11-2007, 07:21 PM
KingRoLo KingRoLo is offline
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Hi, Drezn and I have the same problem and have both posted the problem at the ASUS tech website. I understand this is a corsair support form and im using Crucial but i thought you might be interested in my woes.

I have 4 x 1 Crucial Ballistix 8500 ram which is rated to run at 1066 default. In order for me to get a (roughly) 90% stable system i have to downclock my mem FSB to the next setting 889.

At 1066 WinXP would freeze generally within 1-3 mins at the desktop. At 889 my system was ok for about 5 days then frooze which was quite annoying because i thought i had solved it.

So i then went into the BIOS and changed FSB to 1066 and the voltage and timings to Crucials rated speed of 2.2V and 5-5-5-15 timmings, basicly everything default and to the manufacturers guidelines and my system was stable for a day and a half at 1066 which is a big improvement over 1-3 mins.

However it froze again

So now im at a loss. The only thing i havent tried yet is the 0701 beta BIOS drezn posted which seems to be going down well.

I am quite annyied about this because the ASUS board says on the front and all their marketing material that the board will run 1066 and well beyond with its super duper memspeed technology........
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  #40  
Old 10-11-2007, 07:36 PM
KingRoLo KingRoLo is offline
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Just saw the forum removed 'other' branded ram, sorry didn't realise was bad to discuss this. Feel free to ignore that post.
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  #41  
Old 10-11-2007, 07:47 PM
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The only thing i havent tried yet is the 0701 beta BIOS drezn posted which seems to be going down well.

I am quite annyied about this because the ASUS board says on the front and all their marketing material that the board will run 1066 and well beyond with its super duper memspeed technology........
Hey mate

How come you haven't tried the 0701 BIOS yet? I know it's beta and all, but I haven't been able to see any changes apart from the increased stability. It's not like you're committing to anything, you can always flash back to the original BIOS without a trace of ever having anything else flashed. Hearing how your machine is running for half a day at default settings, I'm thinking there's a really good chance this BIOS may be what'll make it stable.

How are you testing to see if it's stable by the way? Memtest86+ is an awesome tool for the job, nothing better to spot memory problems.

I don't think you have to worry too much about the blanking out of brand names. It is after all a Corsair forum, and I guess they just reserve the right to only promote their own products on the site
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  #42  
Old 10-11-2007, 10:14 PM
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I guess they just reserve the right to only promote their own products on the site
Actually, the reasoning for the blanking out is because there can be fanboyism and arguments on which company is . . . yada, yada, yada...

And there are many forums out there where this can go on, just not here.
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  #43  
Old 10-12-2007, 04:45 AM
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Actually, the reasoning for the blanking out is because there can be fanboyism and arguments on which company is . . . yada, yada, yada...

And there are many forums out there where this can go on, just not here.
Hehe, that makes sense. But that doesn't mean you can't post about other brands than Corsair does it? Just making sure...
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  #44  
Old 10-12-2007, 12:22 PM
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Hehe, that makes sense. But that doesn't mean you can't post about other brands than Corsair does it? Just making sure...
You can post, but you have to be circumspect, and not create the atmosphere of this vs that. If the brand is blanked out, and you post a word or phrase to circumvent the posting restraint, then you are in violation of the forum's rules. So it is altogether best not to do so at all.
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  #45  
Old 10-12-2007, 05:10 PM
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Actually we blocked out other manufacturers because many other memory manufacturers had no readily viable means of support at that time and many user's who had other makers memory were coming here to get help with other memory. So to prevent that we just blocked them, there is no reason to be talking about other memory on our forum.
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