Corsair h100i Pro rgb pump speed question

Hello,

Why is there only three modes of speed for the pump?

• Quiet at 1110rpm everytime :veryangry
  
• Balanced 2160rmp at all times :brick:
  
• Extreme 2850rmp only :sigh!:
  

Why the pump doesn't adapt to the temperature of the CPU ? Or even to the probe you've probably installed inside?

I have connected the whole setup like it should be, everything is fine, but, that thing doesn't have other functions. We can adjust the fan speed with a temperature's curve for the case fans with Commander Pro. Why the pump cannot be adjusted? I'm not tellin that my 8700k at stock is running hot in PUBG but I still want those 49°C - 51°C going at 45-46°C at those 35-40% CPU Load.

Am I doing something wrong?

• The micro-usb cable connected to the Commander Pro
  
• The 4-Pins cable for the pump is connected to AIO_PUMP header of the Asus Z370-F
  

Here's some pictures to show that I've built a complete Corsair Ecosystem...

https://be.pcpartpicker.com/b/k9Bbt6

I hope that there's something with a temperature on the left vertical side of a board and a rounds per minute on the bottom horizontal on the same board where we can vary the pump and that I have not searched well...

At 65°C, I've set the balanced mode, which should normally move from low speed to extreme speed automatically for the pump and the fans... Which is not happening. I have to turn manually the best scenario everytime...

https://imgur.com/xv0UvNh

https://imgur.com/ONqWX8i

Well, because the pump is a 3 speed fixed model and not a variable speed pump. Even if it was, that would not change your outcome. You are not going to knock 5C off anything with any pump speed. If you want to see, set the pump to max when playing. Remember pump and fan speed only affect coolant temperature, so the change in coolant temp from start to peak is the value to measure. I don't see any measureable difference during real use between the balanced and extreme modes on the H115i Pro and 8700K at 5GHz. Theoretically, the comparatively smaller surface area 240mm H100i PRO version might so a degree difference, but you will need to test to find out. Pump speed just isn't a huge factor in short loop length, low to moderate restriction AIO coolers. That said, the 1100 rpm Quiet mode will add to your temps when loaded, but it is significantly slower than the others.

As to why a 3 speed was selected vs variable, it probably comes down to either cost considerations for something that isn't needed or perhaps there is some evidence that suggests the fixed speed has better longevity than the constantly adjusting variable model. Only Corsair would be able to answer that.

Well, because the pump is a 3 speed fixed model and not a variable speed pump. Even if it was, that would not change your outcome. You are not going to knock 5C off anything with any pump speed. If you want to see, set the pump to max when playing. Remember pump and fan speed only affect coolant temperature, so the change in coolant temp from start to peak is the value to measure. I don't see any measureable difference during real use between the balanced and extreme modes on the H115i Pro and 8700K at 5GHz. Theoretically, the comparatively smaller surface area 240mm H100i PRO version might so a degree difference, but you will need to test to find out. Pump speed just isn't a huge factor in short loop length, low to moderate restriction AIO coolers. That said, the 1100 rpm Quiet mode will add to your temps when loaded, but it is significantly slower than the others.

 

As to why a 3 speed was selected vs variable, it probably comes down to either cost considerations for something that isn't needed or perhaps there is some evidence that suggests the fixed speed has better longevity than the constantly adjusting variable model. Only Corsair would be able to answer that.

Hello,

I'm expecting Corsair to answer to my question because I thought that it worked like that since I work in industrial, commercial, home and office refrigeration sector and I'm feeling fooled by Corsair. I was thinking that this company was outstanding for some points, this is why I've dressed my whole system build at their effigy. It feels uncomplete :/ There's reasons why pumps, fans, has variable speeds. Could they add at least an option to regulate the pump speed in the software based on the temperature of the CPU? That demands nothing...

I like the way it stucks at 1080rpm when your CPU is at dying 65°C...

https://imgur.com/a/UKEhqHR

GG Corsair

Hello,

I thought that it worked like that since I work in industrial, commercial, home and office refrigeration sector

and that was your mistake buddy...

in this world this is the norm.. 99% of AIO's made by all manufacturers operate in this way... you need to stop concentrating on pump speed and focus more on fan speeds... and indeed profiles. these allow you to set up your machine for specific uses.....

the problem in that image is your fan speeds.... you have your CPU at 100% load and your 120mm fans at 400rpm...... no where near fast enough to remove heat at that level at use.. wouldn't matter if you put the pump at 10,000 rpm... heat is not being removed quick enough because of the low fan speed....

and btw,,, 65c id not dying lol.. in fact its actually showing you how well the cooler is doing it's job given the pc is under load and you are running everything at its lowest speed.....

and that was your mistake buddy...

 

in this world this is the norm.. 99% of AIO's made by all manufacturers operate in this way... you need to stop concentrating on pump speed and focus more on fan speeds... and indeed profiles. these allow you to set up your machine for specific uses.....

Hello,

But could you at least add an option in the iCUE software to allow those three scenarios to fluctuate automatically depending of the CPU temperature? I have already programmed by Corsair's default fan curves: https://imgur.com/a/rRcUwMZ I can only encourage your developpers team to add that simple option I'm dreaming of.

the problem in that image is your fan speeds.... you have your CPU at 100% load and your 120mm fans at 400rpm...... no where near fast enough to remove heat at that leval at use.. wouldnt matter if you put the pump at 10,000 rpm... heat is not being remove quick enough because of the low fan speed....

 

and btw,,, 65c id not dying lol.. in fact its actually showing you how well the cooler is doing it's job give the pc is underload and you are running everything at its lowest speed.....

 

https://i.imgur.com/U7ClTKK.png

Hello,

Yup, I think that iCUE has reset the fan speed regulation board to the AIO probe rather than to the CPU probe... This is something I've missed out so badly

Hello,

 

But could you at least add an option in the iCUE software to allow those three scenarios to fluctuate automatically depending of the CPU temperature? I have already programmed by Corsair's default fan curves: https://imgur.com/a/rRcUwMZ I can only encourage your developpers team to add that simple option I'm dreaming of.

that's a double edge sword.... the moment control is taken away from the user we would end up with floods of threads demanding why. which is what you are suggesting. auto settings vs manual settings.....

and for the record.. i do not work for Corsair... just a user like your self, but I am on the iCue Beta Test Team so i will put your suggestions forward to right places ;) ;)

that's a double edge sword.... the moment control is taken away from the user we would end up with floods of threads demanding why. which is what you are suggesting. auto settings vs manual settings.....

 

and for the record.. i do not work for Corsair... just a user like your self, but I am on the iCue Beta Test Team so i will put your suggestions forward to right places ;) ;)

No, you did not understand anything then if you're thinking I'm here for asking to block user customization of the settings.

What temperature are you aiming for? Perhaps you could try remounting your pump to ensure that it is making the best possible contact with your CPU. I would say your temps are not really that bad though but if I had to guess at the problem I would say it could be a bad mount. I had to redo my pro cooler a few times and eventually got it mounted perfectly. If you do that make sure to clean off the old thermal compound with alcohol and replace it with fresh stuff first.

I even counter the rounds that I've made with the screw driver. I also screwed by a star model. So I don't think it's that the problem.

I only want that they add an option:

• CPU is at 50°C = run the pump speed at extreme 2850rpm as their settings are
  
• CPU is whatever temperature... The balanced mode should ajust the pump speed...
  
• CPU is at 30°C = set the Quiet mode... 1110rpm as their settings are
  

I don't know, you have only three choices for the pump... Quiet, Balanced, Extrem. And they don't adjust to the temperature of the CPU.

It coold great, that's not the problem.

Hello,

 

I'm expecting Corsair to answer to my question because I thought that it worked like that since I work in industrial, commercial, home and office refrigeration sector and I'm feeling fooled by Corsair.

These are the User Forums. If you want to send a message to Corsair directly, you need to use the Support Ticket System linked in the menu bar above. Be sure and attach a resume so they know you are a "professional".

However, while you are waiting for them to respond, I would suggest two things. One, re-read the first response. Two, actually do a comparison test between the balanced 2160 rpm pump speed and the extreme 2860 pump speed. You are sitting here lamenting a feature that is both unnecessary and has no effect on the system performance without bothering to see if it makes any difference. For most of us, the change is nil. I think in certain types of loads over an extended period of time, you might be able to see a small 1 or maybe 2C coolant temp difference on the smaller surface area 240mm, compared to the 280/360 models. However, since no one accidentally sets Prime95 to run for 6 hours, you always have the option to manually change it if that's what you are going to do.

The total system length and pressure of a short 30cm AIO loop is not overly affected by pump speed. Fans somewhat, pump very little. The quiet mode at 1100 rpm is something different and at that lower speed on these Pro coolers, it does seem to have a slight negative effect. I would skip it altogether. Most of us leave it parked on balanced at 21xx rpm and never need to make adjustments. My CPU coolant deltas are 4-5C with moderate 700-800 rpm fan speeds on the 280mm version. There's not much gain to be had.

Additionally, you may want to think about how this cooling system differs from what you normally work with. A CPU cooler is a waste heat removal device, transporting heat elsewhere. It's not blowing cold air into anything to change the environment. Your Vcore will be the dominant factor in any end CPU temperature and the cooler's role in that is only conductive. The fans and pump are only part of the removal process only after the heat has been conducted into the coolant stream. Since heat transfer across the cold place occurs in both directions, your coolant temperature is effectively the minimum possible CPU temperature. Then you add the increase in CPU temperature that occurs when Vcore goes from idle to max. You cannot prevent that part of the heat equation and nearly all CPUs will be limited in that way, even with a 10m radiator panel. With a Vcore of 1.80v and a coolant delta of zero (perfect cooling), you still fry your CPU at the pins where the electricity is supplied.

For the above reasons, coolant temperature is the correct control variable. You can manually force your fan curves to follow CPU temperature, but on an 8700K that is like giving control over to a 6 year old who just wants to watch the fans go up and down endlessly. I would suggest you not do this. It is both irritating and ineffective. In your proposed changes, the pump would also be fluctuating from 1100 to 2860 rpm each time you open a browser or launch a program. The Kaby and Coffee Lake processors will put all of their resources into doing even mundane tasks, like launching a browser. You don't need a cooling hardware response when you open Chrome.

Hello,

 

I'm expecting Corsair to answer to my question because I thought that it worked like that since I work in industrial, commercial, home and office refrigeration sector and I'm feeling fooled by Corsair. I was thinking that this company was outstanding for some points, this is why I've dressed my whole system build at their effigy. It feels uncomplete :/ There's reasons why pumps, fans, has variable speeds. Could they add at least an option to regulate the pump speed in the software based on the temperature of the CPU? That demands nothing...

Hmmm ... commercial and home refrigeration sector is a tad different from PC cooling. You do realize that they have engineers that design this stuff and test it, right? Do YOU design the refrigeration systems you work on? Do you have a degree in physics or engineering with specialization in thermodynamics?

Also, keep in mind that you are arguing with folks that are in the COMPUTER INDUSTRY and make their living working with COMPUTERS (e.g. c-attack) day in and day out. Somehow, I doubt that they'd argue with you as you go into the inner workings of a commercial freezer because, somehow, they think that working with PCs and PC cooling is applicable. The same goes in reverse.

I like the way it stucks at 1080rpm when your CPU is at dying 65°C...

https://imgur.com/a/UKEhqHR

GG Corsair

You CPU is not even close to "dying" at 65C. You still have a full 30C to go before you hit thermal throttling ... and that'll happen before there is any damage to the CPU itself. Making a statement like that is almost laughable.

Set your pump speeds to Balanced, as suggested. Leave it there. Focus on your fan speeds and proper airflow and cooling of the system itself. As an HVAC professional, I'm sure that you're aware that the system is an entire thermal system and looking at one component in isolation from the other components is an exercise in futility. GPUs, in particularly, are the most common culprits in heating up AIO radiators - even though the AIO isn't cooling the GPU at all.

These are the User Forums. If you want to send a message to Corsair directly, you need to use the Support Ticket System linked in the menu bar above. Be sure and attach a resume so they know you are a "professional".

 

However, while you are waiting for them to respond, I would suggest two things. One, re-read the first response. Two, actually do a comparison test between the balanced 2160 rpm pump speed and the extreme 2860 pump speed. You are sitting here lamenting a feature that is both unnecessary and has no effect on the system performance without bothering to see if it makes any difference. For most of us, the change is nil. I think in certain types of loads over an extended period of time, you might be able to see a small 1 or maybe 2C coolant temp difference on the smaller surface area 240mm, compared to the 280/360 models. However, since no one accidentally sets Prime95 to run for 6 hours, you always have the option to manually change it if that's what you are going to do.

 

The total system length and pressure of a short 30cm AIO loop is not overly affected by pump speed. Fans somewhat, pump very little. The quiet mode at 1100 rpm is something different and at that lower speed on these Pro coolers, it does seem to have a slight negative effect. I would skip it altogether. Most of us leave it parked on balanced at 21xx rpm and never need to make adjustments. My CPU coolant deltas are 4-5C with moderate 700-800 rpm fan speeds on the 280mm version. There's not much gain to be had.

 

Additionally, you may want to think about how this cooling system differs from what you normally work with. A CPU cooler is a waste heat removal device, transporting heat elsewhere. It's not blowing cold air into anything to change the environment. Your Vcore will be the dominant factor in any end CPU temperature and the cooler's role in that is only conductive. The fans and pump are only part of the removal process only after the heat has been conducted into the coolant stream. Since heat transfer across the cold place occurs in both directions, your coolant temperature is effectively the minimum possible CPU temperature. Then you add the increase in CPU temperature that occurs when Vcore goes from idle to max. You cannot prevent that part of the heat equation and nearly all CPUs will be limited in that way, even with a 10m radiator panel. With a Vcore of 1.80v and a coolant delta of zero (perfect cooling), you still fry your CPU at the pins where the electricity is supplied.

 

For the above reasons, coolant temperature is the correct control variable. You can manually force your fan curves to follow CPU temperature, but on an 8700K that is like giving control over to a 6 year old who just wants to watch the fans go up and down endlessly. I would suggest you not do this. It is both irritating and ineffective. In your proposed changes, the pump would also be fluctuating from 1100 to 2860 rpm each time you open a browser or launch a program. The Kaby and Coffee Lake processors will put all of their resources into doing even mundane tasks, like launching a browser. You don't need a cooling hardware response when you open Chrome.

Still... There's some interesting options missing even if you're thinking that it's useless...

Hmmm ... commercial and home refrigeration sector is a tad different from PC cooling. You do realize that they have engineers that design this stuff and test it, right? Do YOU design the refrigeration systems you work on? Do you have a degree in physics or engineering with specialization in thermodynamics?

 

Also, keep in mind that you are arguing with folks that are in the COMPUTER INDUSTRY and make their living working with COMPUTERS (e.g. c-attack) day in and day out. Somehow, I doubt that they'd argue with you as you go into the inner workings of a commercial freezer because, somehow, they think that working with PCs and PC cooling is applicable. The same goes in reverse.

 

 

You CPU is not even close to "dying" at 65C. You still have a full 30C to go before you hit thermal throttling ... and that'll happen before there is any damage to the CPU itself. Making a statement like that is almost laughable.

 

Set your pump speeds to Balanced, as suggested. Leave it there. Focus on your fan speeds and proper airflow and cooling of the system itself. As an HVAC professional, I'm sure that you're aware that the system is an entire thermal system and looking at one component in isolation from the other components is an exercise in futility. GPUs, in particularly, are the most common culprits in heating up AIO radiators - even though the AIO isn't cooling the GPU at all.

Nevermind...

Everything works fine... I just think that the fan curves doesn't saves.

So at every reboot, the setting is set to the h100i probe and not on the 8700k

You want it set to the H100 Probe and not the Cpu Package... setting it to CPU will make your fan's rpm's unstable due to the ever changing temps the cpu will throw out...... the Fans are cooling the liquid and not the CPU. it's the liquids temp you need to control in order to control the CPU temps......... Most do what you are doing... I know i did when i bought my first AIO... but that's not how it works buddy...

Okay then... But the liquid never goes beyond 32°C I think

Let's put that in "équilibré" then, for the fans.

Okay then... But the liquid never goes beyond 32°C I think

that's fine... if we look at the Facts... liquid at 32c.... 8700k at 65c under 100% load.... the question you should be asking your self is.. Why on earth are you trying to fix something that's not broken?.. both of those temps are totally fine... more than totally fine.... some would say they are very nice for that set up at 100% load.....

Everything works fine... I just think that the fan curves doesn't saves.

 

So at every reboot, the setting is set to the h100i probe and not on the 8700k

This has been mentioned by others as well and goes back at least several iCUE versions. While I recommend using the coolant temperature, the software really should stay on CPU temp when the software is running. When the software is not running, the cooler must use its internal coolant temp sensor and it will not be able to access CPU temp data through the motherboard. As such, don't save a "CPU temp" based fan curve to the device. It will not be interpreted as you want. I am not sure if this is the origin of the reboot and reset problem or something else, but it yet another reason not to use CPU temp as the control variable.

Okay then... But the liquid never goes beyond 32°C I think

 

Let's put that in "équilibré" then, for the fans.

As you have already done, definitely make your own custom fan curve for your cooling requirements and noise tolerances. There is no reason to use someone else's preset based on a specific room temperature. That is the real trick in all of this: room temperature is the dominant factor in your coolant base temperature. In a temperate climate with cold winters and hot summers your peak coolant temp in Winter may be less than the baseline with no load in Summer. You have make seasonal adjustments.

My usual suggestion is people do the following:

1) Figure out your baseline coolant temperature. Set a fan speed to it that is quiet and appropriate for desktop work.

2) Leave yourself some room for daily temperature variations and start a slow curve upwards +3-4C further down.

3) Find you peak coolant temp during real use - not a stress test. If the highest coolant temp you see doing your thing is 32C, then set the highest fan speed you are willing to tolerate to 33-34C.

4) Set a maximum fan blast around the 45-50C mark. You should never get there, but if you do, then you will get a clear warning things are out of bounds.

Now the thing to remember is you can only reduce CPU temperature by 1C for each 1C reduction in coolant temperature. So if your baseline temp was 25C and the peak is 32C, then you have a 7C delta. No matter what you do, you cannot reduce end CPU temperature by more than 7C. That 7C is theoretically possible, but not in real use and even massive custom loops are going to have at least a +3C rise in coolant temperature. You just can't dump all the heat in one pass through the system at any fan or pump speed.

Another way to deal with the curves is to figure out your "voltage on" CPU temp delta. This is the instant temperature change that occurs when you go from your idle Vcore (0.60-0.80v) to 1.xx volts or wherever you are. This is based on your CPU design, its unique quirks, and the direct conductivity out of the CPU. It is a steady and consistent value at a specific voltage and should not change from day to day. When it does, that usually means you need to redo your TIM and mount. Most people are going to have a voltage on CPU temp delta of +30-50C with overclocked CPUs on the higher end as the voltage scales. This is a fairly easy value to find. Just load up your favorite 100% stress tester and click it on. Your CPU temps should jump from their current 25-35C baseline to a specific number in the 60-80C range. That is your delta or the temperature allowance you must always plan for. Let's assume your delta was +40C. Then, if the maximum CPU temp you are willing to tolerate is 80C, then you know you must keep the coolant temp below 40C (80-40=40C). If the maximum CPU temp you are willing to tolerate is 70C, then you must keep the coolant under 30C to guarantee this. I don't typically set my curves this way, but it is good to know your voltage on delta to assess performance or unexpected changes. It also allows you to make a rough calculation on your maximum allowable coolant temp. People running really high overclocks on the bad end of the voltage scale really have to watch their coolant temp. For most everyone else, the coolant temp becomes largely irrelevant and if you max temps are in the 50-60s, then blasting the fans to reduce coolant by -2C is a bad trade on noise.

that's fine... if we look at the Facts... liquid at 32c.... 8700k at 65c under 100% load.... the question you should be asking your self is.. Why on earth are you trying to fix something that's not broken?.. both of those temps are totally fine... more than totally fine.... some would say they are very nice for that set up at 100% load.....

I'm using this cpu at 45-55% load at 50-55°C in PUBG... That's all.

I just wanted the Pump and the Fans runnig faster when the CPU is running hotter. And not having to hear the pump drizzing at 2150rpm... Because I have no HDD, only an m.2 ssd. Even the fans sounds silent.

It's not broken but it's not complete yet.

This has been mentioned by others as well and goes back at least several iCUE versions. While I recommend using the coolant temperature, the software really should stay on CPU temp when the software is running. When the software is not running, the cooler must use its internal coolant temp sensor and it will not be able to access CPU temp data through the motherboard. As such, don't save a "CPU temp" based fan curve to the device. It will not be interpreted as you want. I am not sure if this is the origin of the reboot and reset problem or something else, but it yet another reason not to use CPU temp as the control variable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you have already done, definitely make your own custom fan curve for your cooling requirements and noise tolerances. There is no reason to use someone else's preset based on a specific room temperature. That is the real trick in all of this: room temperature is the dominant factor in your coolant base temperature. In a temperate climate with cold winters and hot summers your peak coolant temp in Winter may be less than the baseline with no load in Summer. You have make seasonal adjustments.

 

My usual suggestion is people do the following:

1) Figure out your baseline coolant temperature. Set a fan speed to it that is quiet and appropriate for desktop work.

 

2) Leave yourself some room for daily temperature variations and start a slow curve upwards +3-4C further down.

 

3) Find you peak coolant temp during real use - not a stress test. If the highest coolant temp you see doing your thing is 32C, then set the highest fan speed you are willing to tolerate to 33-34C.

 

4) Set a maximum fan blast around the 45-50C mark. You should never get there, but if you do, then you will get a clear warning things are out of bounds.

 

Now the thing to remember is you can only reduce CPU temperature by 1C for each 1C reduction in coolant temperature. So if your baseline temp was 25C and the peak is 32C, then you have a 7C delta. No matter what you do, you cannot reduce end CPU temperature by more than 7C. That 7C is theoretically possible, but not in real use and even massive custom loops are going to have at least a +3C rise in coolant temperature. You just can't dump all the heat in one pass through the system at any fan or pump speed.

 

Another way to deal with the curves is to figure out your "voltage on" CPU temp delta. This is the instant temperature change that occurs when you go from your idle Vcore (0.60-0.80v) to 1.xx volts or wherever you are. This is based on your CPU design, its unique quirks, and the direct conductivity out of the CPU. It is a steady and consistent value at a specific voltage and should not change from day to day. When it does, that usually means you need to redo your TIM and mount. Most people are going to have a voltage on CPU temp delta of +30-50C with overclocked CPUs on the higher end as the voltage scales. This is a fairly easy value to find. Just load up your favorite 100% stress tester and click it on. Your CPU temps should jump from their current 25-35C baseline to a specific number in the 60-80C range. That is your delta or the temperature allowance you must always plan for. Let's assume your delta was +40C. Then, if the maximum CPU temp you are willing to tolerate is 80C, then you know you must keep the coolant temp below 40C (80-40=40C). If the maximum CPU temp you are willing to tolerate is 70C, then you must keep the coolant under 30C to guarantee this. I don't typically set my curves this way, but it is good to know your voltage on delta to assess performance or unexpected changes. It also allows you to make a rough calculation on your maximum allowable coolant temp. People running really high overclocks on the bad end of the voltage scale really have to watch their coolant temp. For most everyone else, the coolant temp becomes largely irrelevant and if you max temps are in the 50-60s, then blasting the fans to reduce coolant by -2C is a bad trade on noise.

I have read carefully what you've written. That's an interesting explanation. Thank you.

I'm using this cpu at 45-55% load at 50-55°C in PUBG... That's all.

 

I just wanted the Pump and the Fans runnig faster when the CPU is running hotter. And not having to hear the pump drizzing at 2150rpm... Because I have no HDD, only an m.2 ssd. Even the fans sounds silent.

 

It's not broken but it's not complete yet.

OK, then my suggestion is to leave the pump on Performance. You can experiment all you like between the 2100 and 2800 rpm settings, but I suspect you will hear Extreme on the desktop when doing quiet things. It is a bit of nuisance to change all the time, but again if the extra 700 rpm on the pump does not increase your cooling and you can hear it, the decision is made.

For moderate mixed use like gaming, you likely don't need a lot of fan speed. Most of your CPU coolant delta will probably occur because the case is warming from GPU waste heat, not because the cooler is inefficient. That really doesn't change things and +4C to coolant is still +4C to CPU. However, that again means you can't solve this with faster radiator fans or pumps. It is environmental. You can run the fans as slow as you like, as long as the CPU temps are still acceptable. It is near impossible to overheat the CPU unless the cooler fails entirely. Most of the work is done by transporting the heat away and the water has a much better heat capacity than air. 1500 rpm is about the most I can possibly stand from a 120mm fan. Figure out what is acceptable to you and set it just out of reach for normal use. Constantly changing pumps and fans are going to be a distraction. Water cooling is definitely a "slow and steady wins" kind of race.

I have read carefully what you've written. That's an interesting explanation. Thank you.

:) he knows what he's talking about buddy.. i learn something new from him most days lol..