Crystal Series 570X Push/Pull Radiator on top?

Hi, I'm looking at the Crystal Series 570X and I was wondering can you put a radiator on top with a fan above and below in a push/pull configuration? I currently have a NZXT Kraken 52 I would like to use in a push/pull setup. Thanks.

David

With a radiator on the front, push-pull or not, I'd be exhausting the air out the front so as to not have the radiator heat the interior of the case, no?

In that situation, the top and back fans I add (240 + 120rear) blowing inward, but without the aid of a magnetic filter on the back.

(confused)

You could run the 570x with a reverse airflow (back to front). I have not tried it and how these things go are very case specific. However, it is not necessary to do so. The overwhelming majority of users will either front mount-intake or top mount-exhaust a double radiator. While the front mount-intake position does restrict the amount of air you can bring into the case and does release CPU waste heat to the interior, that is not necessarily a catastrophic consequence. A normal 95W TDP CPU (even overclocked) is not likely to massively heat the case. Since there are no drive bays, a lot of that waste heat can be directed right out the top of the case. You can certainly try to run in reverse, but you might start with the more traditional set-up to establish a baseline and be able to compare data with other users.

In the 570X, you likely still can top mount a 240mm radiator. As mentioned, memory module height is the common restriction. The Vengeance LED module are 49mm high, so it will need to be shorter than that. It is likely someone else has already figured an exact clearance bar somewhere in the case forum. Unlike the 460x, my preference would be to top mount in the 570x if I could.

You could run the 570x with a reverse airflow (back to front). I have not tried it and how these things go are very case specific. However, it is not necessary to do so. The overwhelming majority of users will either front mount-intake or top mount-exhaust a double radiator. While the front mount-intake position does restrict the amount of air you can bring into the case and does release CPU waste heat to the interior, that is not necessarily a catastrophic consequence. A normal 95W TDP CPU (even overclocked) is not likely to massively heat the case. Since there are no drive bays, a lot of that waste heat can be directed right out the top of the case. You can certainly try to run in reverse, but you might start with the more traditional set-up to establish a baseline and be able to compare data with other users.

 

In the 570X, you likely still can top mount a 240mm radiator. As mentioned, memory module height is the common restriction. The Vengeance LED module are 49mm high, so it will need to be shorter than that. It is likely someone else has already figured an exact clearance bar somewhere in the case forum. Unlike the 460x, my preference would be to top mount in the 570x if I could.

Actually, after quite a bit of youtubing around it seems that when measurements are actually taken of CPU & GPU, more often than not a front mounted radiator (blowing CPU heat into the case from the front) actually is better than trying to cool off the CPU radiator at the top with heat from inside the case. I'm a little confused by this.

Better? Not a chance. Not overly disadvantaged, non-critical, or acceptable possibly. Take a small space heater set on low and put on the desk aimed at your face. Behind you, put a desk fan blowing air away from you. While you can tolerate it, it is not the same as turning the heater to point away from you.

I am not sure what you have been looking at, but oddly there aren't any real scientific standards for posting on YouTube. Regardless, it doesn't change your position above. People mount radiators in the front because they have to and a 240/360 mm intake is better than 120mm exhaust. My recommendation was to try the traditional front intake setup first to establish a baseline you can compare to others. Once you have that, by all means try the reverse flow and let us know how it went. It only takes 20 min to flip the fans around, but if you start off that way it will be hard to make evaluations as to the performance.

Better? Not a chance. Not overly disadvantaged, non-critical, or acceptable possibly. Take a small space heater set on low and put on the desk aimed at your face. Behind you, put a desk fan blowing air away from you. While you can tolerate it, it is not the same as turning the heater to point away from you.

 

I am not sure what you have been looking at, but oddly there aren't any real scientific standards for posting on YouTube. Regardless, it doesn't change your position above. People mount radiators in the front because they have to and a 240/360 mm intake is better than 120mm exhaust. My recommendation was to try the traditional front intake setup first to establish a baseline you can compare to others. Once you have that, by all means try the reverse flow and let us know how it went. It only takes 20 min to flip the fans around, but if you start off that way it will be hard to make evaluations as to the performance.

That heater analogy doesn't work because the "heater" in question (the blow-in-radiator) originally got it's heat in the first place from the CPU which is already in the case. It's not some radiator externally heated by another source outside the case.

The conclusion from the following guy (BitWit) had dramatically different results depending upon whether or not the GPU was open-air or blowing by itself out the back. The measurements are at the end. He's confining the results to CPU and GPU. He admits that he was completely surprised.

[ame]

EDIT: Because the "t=time" youtube doesn't want to coorperate with this forum for some reason, here are his results at 12:10 within that video above:

http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff352/tgm1024/FORUM%20STUFF/temp_conclusions_zpsn2z0ettu.png

Here's another youtuber where the conclusion is that it simply isn't bad to front-mount-blow-inward. He's taking a far less nuanced approach: Overall heat blowing outward. He's a bit dismissive of the folks that insist on blowing the radiator heat outward.

[ame]

They both talk about the diametrically opposed camps and their viewpoints. But IYO, where did the above guys go wrong?

Part of the problem here (I think) is that all of the folks doing measurements (on both sides of the argument) are looking at temperature and not heat (in physics, heat is a completely distinct metric).

While point-temerature is indeed what kills electronic circuits, we need to look at the case + room as a bit of a closed loop if we're going to look at the total heat. (Again, temperature at particular points is the killer, but I'm trying to sort through the overall problem---the room itself doesn't matter to any of us, I'm just trying to define where and how the thermal-points transfer around).

For instance, if we close the two case options (front and top) each in their own 5ft-cubed box, then the heat (again, not temperature) between the two must be identical (they're both increasing because of the introduction of electricity into each closed system).

So everything must come down to airpathways, and which components are more sensitive to temperature at distinct points.

That heater analogy doesn't work because the "heater" in question (the blow-in-radiator) originally got it's heat in the first place from the CPU which is already in the case. It's not some radiator externally heated by another source outside the case.

I have no idea where you meant to go with the above, but my quip was nothing more than a base logic problem. Putting heat into the box and blowing it out the other side cannot make it cooler than transporting the heat directly out of the box (via the coolant stream) in the first place. It cannot be "better" or cooler for that reason alone. Partly my fault. About once a week I advise people analogies are a weak form of argument and to completely dispense with them in professional dealings. I suppose it still clings on in educational ones, but I should have followed my own advice.

I have watched that video before and similar ones posted to this forum, then broken them down and tried to apply them to the user's own situation. I just don't have the time to do that this week and in your case, it is something of an unripe question anyway. You do not have to make this decision about placement prior to purchase. The gear you are looking at is interchangeable in several different positions. You will be able to get your stuff, set up how you want, change and compare at your leisure. None of the possible configurations will be harmful and it is always better to test in your own case in your own environment. The case, hardware, and locations are too meaningful to directly compare to random collections of gear. Yes, the GPU is a wild card and one that creates more wattage than most CPUs by a good measure. In his test, he came out with results better in two categories. I have done this before with an Air 540 and SLI GPUs. The results were absolutely not better, with overall case temperatures almost +10C higher than normal within 20 minutes of gaming. That was passed on to CPU and GPU as well.

I think the reverse flow is interesting and as I mentioned at the beginning, I don't how it will work. I do think other 460/570 owners would be interested and you should post the results, if you decide to pursue it. I have pondered doing a reverse with my 740, so I can put a 360/front and 280/top, both as exhaust in a full liquid set-up. The primary reason for doing it is to get around the 120mm radiator limitation at the back. And that issue of fitment is what really drives most layouts. +3C? Who cares, if it allows you to fit what you want.

You do not have to make this decision about placement prior to purchase. The gear you are looking at is interchangeable in several different positions. You will be able to get your stuff, set up how you want, change and compare at your leisure. None of the possible configurations will be harmful and it is always better to test in your own case in your own environment. The case, hardware, and locations are too meaningful to directly compare to random collections of gear.

This is what I would've said. Well done!

And that issue of fitment is what really drives most layouts. +3C? Who cares, if it allows you to fit what you want.

This is the sum of it. After building all the trade show machines last year and this year, this is basically it. A 5C +/- is not going to make or break your build. If it fits up there, perfect! If not, find another spot it'll fit and be happy with it. Welcome to the Corsair Club!

Gents.

The conversation (for me) moved from what I was worried about (in the 460x/570x) to the overall theory. I certainly agree that it simply isn't an issue either way unless I'm turning the dial to 11.

I started off with the exact premise you did: If there's a heating radiator, then (duh) blow that heat right out of the case at the top. But I quickly realized that the thermal activity of the fluid (air) dynamics just don't make it that simple. It simply isn't as simple as the instinctive "don't blow warm air in" concept.

If you're simply disinterested in theory, then stop reading here, no worries.

Let's take the two use-cases: FRONT (blow into chassis, push to radiator) and TOP (blow out of chassis, push to radiator).

I'll list out the "sure" and "but...." sections, to show you where the thermal analysis breaks down in fluid dynamics. <----Note: Fluid refers to air in this situation.

TOP:

FRONT:

The simple matter is that I agree with you in that I would prefer to have a TOP configuration, at least I think so. But I still contend, it's no where near as simple as "don't blow hot air into case". It's just not the "duh" calculation many think it is. There's a reason that some folks are vehement about the opposing side.

Why? Because blowing the heat out of the case (TOP scenario) means that some is left behind because the radiator cannot be cooled as well by the case's warmer air. Only thing is: Now it's left behind within the CPU itself. The numbers the first youtuber above pointed out are very interesting to me.