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  #16  
Old 02-20-2014, 09:11 PM
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bottom line is corsair in order to profit must think of the wants of the majority and not the wishes of the few...
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  #17  
Old 04-11-2014, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by wytnyt View Post
bottom line is corsair in order to profit must think of the wants of the majority and not the wishes of the few...
Really? So those $300 computer cases were designed for the majority? I wasn't aware that people who know nothing about computers and who are buying generic crappy PCs at WallMart or BestBuy were their target audience?

Because that is the only target audience I can imagine for this fake USB 3.0 front panel.

If it was a real USB 3.0 front panel I wouldn't mind if it cost me $25. Hell, I would have even parted with $35 to get a proper panel. In my opinion, it is not so important that Corsair cheated me out of $15 with this fake "patch the long cable to the back and waste two ports" crap -- it is important that they failed to offer the accessory I really needed, regardless of the asking price.

So, the bottom line is actually that the profit was made when they sold me the $300 case, minimal profit was made when they sold me fake USB 3.0 front panel. and the profit would have been made again many times by continuing selling to me, and by getting to sell to the people I would be recommending their products if said front panel wasn't fake. This way, no more profit will be made from me or anyone I can influence not to consider their products.
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  #18  
Old 04-11-2014, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by deees View Post
The reality is that in order to get a reasonable price for a component, they have to purchase in large quantity.
So you are saying that they should not make new 800D cases with a proper front panel then and that the current "solution" is AOK in your book for a price tag of $300?

Or you perhaps think that they could not order proper panels for new batch of 800D cases and add say 10-20% more of those proper panels to the order so they can sell them in the store to those who want a proper solution?

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I’m not sure that the Intel guide is relevant to this discussion, it’s referencing a cable assembly with a connector that wasn’t prevalent when the 3.0 kit was probably designed.
It is relevant because Intel is one of USB designers and manufactures -- it simply doesn't get any more relevant than that. That specification is for internal cabling from front panel to the mainboard where you also have to consider interference by other cables and components inside of PC.

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I think you’re vastly over-simplifying the cost and complexity of designing, manufacturing and distributing even a simple part like the 3.0 kit. Particularly, when there is virtually no market and no chance at recouping their investment.
There is no market for a USB 3.0 compliant front panel for their flagship case? Please, that is just silly.

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As far as the PCI bracket, my suggestion was to use the front panel connector plugged into the ports on the IO panel of the motherboard and use the PCI bracket to provide addition rear ports.
And what if I have no free PCI brackets? Not to mention that no amount of cable management can hide the fact that the cables from their fake front panel are going out of the case and into the back panel of the mainboard. Not everyone is keeping their case stuck in the room corner where you can't see the back side. It is ridiculous to even suggest such a solution for such an expensive case with a side window no less.
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  #19  
Old 04-11-2014, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by levicki View Post
So you are saying that they should not make new 800D cases with a proper front panel then and that the current "solution" is AOK in your book for a price tag of $300?
Correct. I understand that the case design, for its time, was perfectly suitable. The case is discontinued and probably hasn't been manufactured for years.
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Originally Posted by levicki View Post
Or you perhaps think that they could not order proper panels for new batch of 800D cases and add say 10-20% more of those proper panels to the order so they can sell them in the store to those who want a proper solution?
Correct, they would probably lose thousands of dollars trying to get them to market, only to find, people would rather purchase newer products. If you want to make a case to their sales and marketing people, go ahead.
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It is relevant because Intel is one of USB designers and manufactures -- it simply doesn't get any more relevant than that. That specification is for internal cabling from front panel to the mainboard where you also have to consider interference by other cables and components inside of PC.
It’s not relevant because it didn’t come out until summer of 2010. It references an internal cable that didn’t exist at the time that the panels were being designed. Since the official specification doesn’t mention this length restriction, (and it’s reduced for small form factors), it appears to the a PC “form, fit and finish” spec. more than a USB3 one.
My comment are actually in reference to you assertion that the USB3 cable was in violation of the USB3.0 specification. It’s not.

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Originally Posted by levicki View Post
There is no market for a USB 3.0 compliant front panel for their flagship case? Please, that is just silly.
Is there zero market for one of these cables? No. Is there enough of a market to justify the cost, (and the risk), to produce part for a case that is EOL, EOS and 5 -6 years old? Again, make your case to the financial people at Corsair. They only do this for a living, I’m sure they would welcome their assistance.

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Originally Posted by levicki View Post
Not to mention that no amount of cable management can hide the fact that the cables from their fake front panel are going out of the case and into the back panel of the mainboard. Not everyone is keeping their case stuck in the room corner where you can't see the back side.
It’s not “fake” if there weren’t any alternatives available at the time.
I’ve always kept my computer on my desk. I’ve also always been puzzled by the people who balk at the idea of two USB cables on the back of the case. I have a 10 USB device cables, 5 audio cables, video, Cat5, and one big power cable. I hardly think that 2 USB cables shatter the Feng Shui of the universe.
Is an internal cable cleaner and nicer? Yes.
Is it Corsair’s fault for not waiting until all PC specifications are finalized, forever? No
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  #20  
Old 05-22-2014, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by deees View Post
Correct. I understand that the case design, for its time, was perfectly suitable. The case is discontinued and probably hasn't been manufactured for years.
So, what is this thing here then, I wonder? Could that be the "discontinued" case you are talking about?

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Originally Posted by deees View Post
Correct, they would probably lose thousands of dollars trying to get them to market, only to find, people would rather purchase newer products. If you want to make a case to their sales and marketing people, go ahead.
Well guess what? I did just that when I started this thread. Also, adding a word "correct" to the beginning of your statements doesn't actually make them correct.

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Originally Posted by deees View Post
It’s not relevant because it didn’t come out until summer of 2010. It references an internal cable that didn’t exist at the time that the panels were being designed.
It has been 4 years since then. Corsair is still selling the case under the slogan "DESIGNED FOR YEARS OF PERFORMANCE". Panels should have been upgraded. Full stop.

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Originally Posted by deees View Post
My comment are actually in reference to you assertion that the USB3 cable was in violation of the USB3.0 specification. It’s not.
Except that it is, since the official specification you are mentioning is for external cables, not internal.

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Originally Posted by deees View Post
It’s not “fake” if there weren’t any alternatives available at the time.
But it is fake now, that is all that matters.

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Originally Posted by deees View Post
I’ve also always been puzzled by the people who balk at the idea of two USB cables on the back of the case. I have a 10 USB device cables, 5 audio cables, video, Cat5, and one big power cable. I hardly think that 2 USB cables shatter the Feng Shui of the universe.
As I said, back USB ports on my case are completely full. Therefore, it is not about Feng Shui (even though you should not have to choose between form and function), but about the fact that I have no free ports on the case back, that old panel ports are useless for the USB 3.0 devices I use (which move data at more than 90MB/sec) and that I have free USB 3.0 header on my mainboard which I cannot use thanks to Corsair. Oh, and there is a fact that I have wasted $15 on a fake USB 3.0 panel and I still can't connect my devices at 3.0 speeds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deees View Post
Is it Corsair’s fault for not waiting until all PC specifications are finalized, forever? No
Nobody is expecting that. However, Corsair is, contrary to your incorrect statements, still selling the case. Maybe this workaround with cable patching was OK shortly after case was designed, but what I am arguing is that today after four years of the case existence it is not OK anymore -- selling an accessory which amounts to no more than a rather expensive extension cable is done in bad faith.

Finally, since almost everything you said was incorrect, please check your facts next time.
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  #21  
Old 05-23-2014, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by levicki View Post
So, what is this thing here then, I wonder? Could that be the "discontinued" case you are talking about?
I don't recall them having any stock. (Although, if there was, they’re not required to continue to make design changes to it.)
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Originally Posted by levicki View Post
Well guess what? I did just that when I started this thread. Also, adding a word "correct" to the beginning of your statements doesn't actually make them correct.
"Correct" meaning I was agreeing with some of your previous statements, (as sarcastic as they have been.) If you're trying to impress the marketing people, you're going to need to provide a lot more information, (and probably a better understanding of the economics of product manufacturing.)

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Originally Posted by levicki View Post
Panels should have been upgraded. Full stop.
Just like an unsold 4 year old car sitting on a dealer’s lot, I expect the manufacturer will stop by from time to time to upgrade and replace the engine and entertainment system to the current model spec. Dream on.
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Originally Posted by levicki View Post
Except that it is, since the official specification you are mentioning is for external cables, not internal.
Running the cable through the case doesn’t change its electrical properties. When the case came out, there weren’t any internal cables, because there weren’t any internal connectors.
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Originally Posted by levicki View Post
But it is fake now, that is all that matters.
Now we’re getting somewhere. Since you concede that it was an acceptable design with it was first produced, has it occurred to you that the cases made at that time are probably all the cases that were ever made? This isn’t like Santa’s workshop, with parts trickling off the line one at a time. These products are created in a few large batches, packed into container ships and shipped to warehouses and distributors across the globe. I’m sure all of this occurred years ago, and there is no opportunity to make changes or tweaks as things evolve.
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Originally Posted by levicki View Post
As I said, back USB ports on my case are completely full. Therefore, it is not about Feng Shui (even though you should not have to choose between form and function), but about the fact that I have no free ports on the case back, that old panel ports are useless for the USB 3.0 devices I use (which move data at more than 90MB/sec) and that I have free USB 3.0 header on my mainboard which I cannot use thanks to Corsair.
And why wouldn’t the USB 3.0 PCI bracket solution work for this application?
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Originally Posted by levicki View Post
Oh, and there is a fact that I have wasted $15 on a fake USB 3.0 panel and I still can't connect my devices at 3.0 speeds.
Assuming that the previously mentioned solution can’t work, I think you have a legitimate complaint with Corsair customer service. There obviously was a disconnect between what you thought you were purchasing and what you received. I would recommend you contact them to see what they can do.
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Originally Posted by levicki View Post
Nobody is expecting that. However, Corsair is, contrary to your incorrect statements, still selling the case. Maybe this workaround with cable patching was OK shortly after case was designed, but what I am arguing is that today after four years of the case existence it is not OK anymore -- selling an accessory which amounts to no more than a rather expensive extension cable is done in bad faith.
I’m not convinced that the case is actually for sale, and it doesn’t matter if it was. Corsair designed and manufactured the 800D years ago. The product was reviewed numerous times in both versions. Those are the final designs. They are responsible for providing that precise configuration to the buyer. End of story.

The USB3 panel, (that were most certainly from the same batch that when into the second version of the case), were made available to buyers of the original case who wanted some USB3 support. I’m sure these kits could only be made available because of the quantity produced for use in the newer cases. It was a choice of some USB3 support for the older cases or none.

If you really want to try to get a USB3 panel with an internal connector, I’d recommend getting in contact with the guys at moddyit.com and inquiry about get the cables re-terminated. They have access to the supply chain, familiarity with Corsair products and a skilled labor force. Make your pitch about the size of the market for updated USB3 cables to them and perhaps they might setup a service to do it.
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  #22  
Old 05-23-2014, 11:41 PM
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@TO

Sorry, but you create, as we say here, an elephant out of a mosquito... Or, in other words, you make way too much out of a minor problem. I guess you had some common sense to check the product before you ordered it, but why didn't you
1. simply ask someone who knew the product if the description is/was unclear.
2. look for an information about a change? Usually something like this would be found somewhere in the description of the product. If not: #1 again.
3. simply open a ticket in the first place? I've had some contacts with the guys here ( Supportteam), on several websites in Germany ( Bluebeard), conventions, etc. Whenever i had a problem they always found a solution...

Last thing (and thats why i call it a minor problem): you can easily get a small adapter here in Europe that fixes your problem. And it will only cost you 5,63€ (including tax and shipment).

Last edited by TBrandes; 05-23-2014 at 11:56 PM.
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  #23  
Old 05-24-2014, 09:53 AM
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@TO

... Or, in other words, you make way too much out of a minor problem.
This is the INTERNET, everything is a CRISIS!
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  #24  
Old 05-24-2014, 11:11 AM
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This is the INTERNET, everything is a CRISIS!
Damn, i forgot...
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  #25  
Old 05-24-2014, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by deees View Post
This is the INTERNET, everything is a CRISIS!
seems even the slightest bug in sw/hw is usually a total CRISIS lately...
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  #26  
Old 06-05-2014, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by deees View Post
I don't recall them having any stock. (Although, if there was, they’re not required to continue to make design changes to it.)
I am talking about design changes to ACCESSORIES (since USB 3.0 front panel is being sold as an accessory), not to the case itself. Like, you know, that SATA backplane which they have completely redesigned?

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Originally Posted by deees View Post
Running the cable through the case doesn’t change its electrical properties.
Except that the cable running through the case is susceptible to more interference from the other high-power components running at high frequencies (CPU, GPU, VRMs, power MOSFETs, etc) and that is why its length should be shorter to ensure singnal integrity. So you are wrong again. But to understand that you need to have a grasp on electronics and physics which you obviously don't.

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Originally Posted by deees View Post
Now we’re getting somewhere. Since you concede that it was an acceptable design with it was first produced, has it occurred to you that the cases made at that time are probably all the cases that were ever made?
And once again, I am talking about an accessory.

If they don't want to change the cases they have in stock (assuming they no longer manufacture them which I doubt since it is still their flagship case), fine -- people have an option to not buy the case or pick another.

If they want me to spend $15 on a USB 3.0 accessory to get front USB 3.0, fine -- I will gladly pay (like I did).

But if they want me to accept a $15 extension cable which runs through my whole case, blocks the grommet designed for liquid cooling to get out of the case and plugs into the back of the mainboard wasting two much needed ports there to bring them to the front -- HELL, NO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deees View Post
And why wouldn’t the USB 3.0 PCI bracket solution work for this application?
Umm... because I want to have additional USB 3.0 ports on the front of the case instead of existing USB 2.0? That was the point of upgrading the front panel anyway, wasn't it?

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Originally Posted by deees View Post
If you really want to try to get a USB3 panel with an internal connector, I’d recommend getting in contact with the guys at moddyit.com and inquiry about get the cables re-terminated. They have access to the supply chain, familiarity with Corsair products and a skilled labor force. Make your pitch about the size of the market for updated USB3 cables to them and perhaps they might setup a service to do it.
This is the first usefull thing you have said so far.

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Originally Posted by TBrandes View Post
Sorry, but you create, as we say here, an elephant out of a mosquito... Or, in other words, you make way too much out of a minor problem.
To me it is a problem. Should I just keep quiet and line up to buy more crap like this? People should know what they are getting.

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Originally Posted by TBrandes View Post
I guess you had some common sense to check the product before you ordered it...
I did check in the Corsair's online shop. The information and picture where pass through cables are visible are in a blog post, not there. You can't expect people to read company blogs in order to learn technical specifications and see product pictures, that should be clearly visible in the store which it wasn't at the time of purchase.

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Originally Posted by TBrandes View Post
1. simply ask someone who knew the product if the description is/was unclear.
I don't know anyone "who knew the product".

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Originally Posted by TBrandes View Post
2. look for an information about a change? Usually something like this would be found somewhere in the description of the product. If not: #1 again.
It was not in the description in the online store at the time of purchase.

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Originally Posted by TBrandes View Post
3. simply open a ticket in the first place?
And what, they would let me RMA it or refund me?

Shipping the package with this damn thing, case door for HDDs, and SATA backplane via Fedex from a friend in the USA to whose address I had to order since Corsair doesn't ship internationally (at least not to Serbia), cost me an additional 107 USD. Who is going to refund that?

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Originally Posted by TBrandes View Post
Last thing (and thats why i call it a minor problem): you can easily get a small adapter here in Europe that fixes your problem. And it will only cost you 5,63€ (including tax and shipment).
I shouldn't have to spend more money to "fix" the new problem which Corsair's accessory supposed to fix the original problem has introduced.

Last edited by levicki; 06-05-2014 at 09:44 AM.
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  #27  
Old 06-05-2014, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by levicki View Post
I am talking about design changes to ACCESSORIES (since USB 3.0 front panel is being sold as an accessory), not to the case itself. Like, you know, that SATA backplane which they have completely redesigned?
I'm sure that both of these were produced at the same time as the updated case, (and probably at one time and never after that.) Corsair would need to produce addition supplies for warranty spares and probably decided to produce some extras since the unit price would be low enough to make it reasonable to sell them as accessory. They're probably all from those first lots.

Redesigning a new USB 3.0 connector after the case was out of production would be expensive, particularly considering the small number of sales they could expect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by levicki View Post
Except that the cable running through the case is susceptible to more interference from the other high-power components running at high frequencies (CPU, GPU, VRMs, power MOSFETs, etc) and that is why its length should be shorter to ensure singnal integrity. So you are wrong again. But to understand that you need to have a grasp on electronics and physics which you obviously don't.
And you seen to have a problem understanding time. When these cables can out there were NO internal cable specifications and no internal cables. If you wanted a case with front panel connectors, this was the solution. All cases with front panel connectors used this method. The cables are also shielded and substantially heavier than the later internal cables and running it behind the motherboard tray should reduce the risk even more.

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Originally Posted by levicki View Post
But if they want me to accept a $15 extension cable which runs through my whole case, blocks the grommet designed for liquid cooling...
Ha! Does anyone actually use these any more? Talk about compromising esthetics.

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Originally Posted by levicki View Post

Umm... because I want to have additional USB 3.0 ports on the front of the case instead of existing USB 2.0? That was the point of upgrading the front panel anyway, wasn't it?
If you install a USB 3.0 PCI Bracket to connect to your motherboard header and provide rear 2 USB 3.0 ports and use the rear motherboard ports to support the front panel USB 3.0, doesn't that solve your problem?
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  #28  
Old 06-05-2014, 11:51 PM
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The 650D has the same outdated pass-through USB 3.0 connection. I read somewhere once can swap out the header from a 350D front connector assembly into the 650D's front connector assembly so I bought one and was able to make the swap. I don't know if that would work for the 800D but it's something to look into.

Since Corsair has the correct parts, I can't understand why they wouldn't upgrade the Front USB 3.0 connection. People have asked for it but Corsair never did it.
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  #29  
Old 06-06-2014, 05:36 AM
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The Panels were designed and made while the old 800d's were still supported and was the best option at the time as all motherboards then only had rear USB 3's , this is now an old case and apart from RMA tickets nothing is being done as there are newer cases out . This is a non-issue as earlier in this trail , a convertor can be bought and still present to board USB 3 connection and works fine as I have had this in my 800d for a while , it was also not a surprise for me to find this was how it was shipped , 2 minutes of checking on-line would have shown the cables / connectors before blindly pushing the buy now . The 800d still is a good case but is now outmoded in many areas so either change it up or go for something from current cases from any supplier , personally I'm going for either a Luxe or Primo , just waiting for the prior to start shipping to see which I prefer , seems all other case builders can go home as these are very well thought out cases with a lot of " out of the box " ( pun intended ) thinking .
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  #30  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:44 AM
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... lengthy diatribe about me not understanding time...
I will skip replying to that part of your post since you obviously believe that the time itself has stopped once Corsair has released their first USB 3.0 front panel.

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Originally Posted by deees View Post
If you install a USB 3.0 PCI Bracket to connect to your motherboard header and provide rear 2 USB 3.0 ports and use the rear motherboard ports to support the front panel USB 3.0, doesn't that solve your problem?
Assuming that I have a free PCI bracket?

Yes, it solves the problem by running a PCI bracket cable over the motherboard to the back side of case, another cable that pokes out of grommet and goes back into mainboard USB ports and at an additional cost. If that is a solution for you then I have a bridge to sell you in African desert.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
The 650D has the same outdated pass-through USB 3.0 connection. I read somewhere once can swap out the header from a 350D front connector assembly into the 650D's front connector assembly so I bought one and was able to make the swap. I don't know if that would work for the 800D but it's something to look into.

Since Corsair has the correct parts, I can't understand why they wouldn't upgrade the Front USB 3.0 connection. People have asked for it but Corsair never did it.
Thank you for this post. I will look into it, but after this experience I am quite reluctant to give more money to Corsair.

@andyvee:

I am waiting for someone from Corsair to confirm what you are saying about 800D not being supported or at least to see a big fat "DISCONTINUED" in their web store next to it.

Until then I will consider their selling of this accessory as flat out cheating.

Bottom line -- I should not need to spend more money to "solve" the problem this accessory was supposed to solve.
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