The Corsair User Forums  

Go Back   The Corsair User Forums > Corsair Product Discussion > Systems > Bulldog and Lapdog

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-07-2015, 04:34 PM
mattlach mattlach is offline
Registered User
mattlach's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 221
POST ID # = 805469
mattlach Reputation: 10
Default 4k Bulldog?

The advertising seems a little optimistic at best.

You can't do 4k gaming with any current single GPU.

Heck, I have TWO 980ti's and Metro 2033 (a 5 year old title now) crawls at only 40fps in most places at 4k resolutions.

Maybe this is intended for next generation Pascal GPU's?

You really shouldn't be claiming "4k" unless the hardware can support frame-rates never (even for a fraction of a second) dropping below 60fps with all effects turned on, as well as decent AA (at least 4x MSAA, or more modern FXAA type AA) and 16x AF.

That simply is not possible with a single GPU slot today
Reply With Quote


  #2  
Old 09-07-2015, 11:02 PM
ScarredMecha ScarredMecha is offline
Registered User
ScarredMecha's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,162
POST ID # = 805536
ScarredMecha Reputation: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattlach View Post
The advertising seems a little optimistic at best.

You can't do 4k gaming with any current single GPU.

Heck, I have TWO 980ti's and Metro 2033 (a 5 year old title now) crawls at only 40fps in most places at 4k resolutions.

Maybe this is intended for next generation Pascal GPU's?

You really shouldn't be claiming "4k" unless the hardware can support frame-rates never (even for a fraction of a second) dropping below 60fps with all effects turned on, as well as decent AA (at least 4x MSAA, or more modern FXAA type AA) and 16x AF.

That simply is not possible with a single GPU slot today
Yeah you won't be able to max out a game at 60FPS with most setups, but you'll certainly be able to attain 60FPS with settings adjustments.
__________________
Click the picture for some nice simple color scheme profiles!

Reply With Quote


  #3  
Old 09-08-2015, 05:38 PM
Corsair Dustin's Avatar
Corsair Dustin Corsair Dustin is offline
Corsair Employee
Corsair Dustin's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,100
POST ID # = 805708
Corsair Dustin Reputation: 41
Default

A 980 Ti or Titan X can definitely provide a solid gaming experience at 4K. Maxed out? Not in some games, sure. But we've been demo'ing The Witcher 3 with most of the eye candy enabled at 4K and it's...kind of hard to argue with.
__________________
Corsair DIY & Gaming Systems Architect
Product Manager for Cooling


Please do not send private messages requesting tech support or trouble shooting. You can create a thread and let the solution to your issue be visible to everyone, or alternatively, work directly with tech support by contacting them here.
Reply With Quote


  #4  
Old 11-16-2015, 07:11 PM
Hyncharas's Avatar
Hyncharas Hyncharas is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 118
POST ID # = 820368
Hyncharas Reputation: 12
Default

The MSI Z170I Gaming Pro AC has also been optimised for 4K and has an insane number of features to help with hardware performance.

If people are interested in getting a Bulldog for enthusiast gaming, or perhaps for computer animation, they should probably get that motherboard. It's nearest competitor is then Gigabyte's Z170N Gaming 5.

Last edited by Hyncharas; 11-16-2015 at 10:31 PM.
Reply With Quote


  #5  
Old 11-16-2015, 10:54 PM
mattlach mattlach is offline
Registered User
mattlach's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 221
POST ID # = 820398
mattlach Reputation: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyncharas View Post
The MSI Z170I Gaming Pro AC has also been optimised for 4K and has an insane number of features to help with hardware performance.

If people are interested in getting a Bulldog for enthusiast gaming, or perhaps for computer animation, they should probably get that motherboard. It's nearest competitor is then Gigabyte's Z170N Gaming 5.
Lol.


How can a motherboard possibly be optimized for 4k?

They have nothing to do with each other.
Reply With Quote


  #6  
Old 11-17-2015, 06:52 PM
Corsair Dustin's Avatar
Corsair Dustin Corsair Dustin is offline
Corsair Employee
Corsair Dustin's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,100
POST ID # = 820561
Corsair Dustin Reputation: 41
Default

Yeah, the optimization is pretty much going to be all in the graphics card and drivers.

So my home machine is running two overclocked 980s in SLI, but I've played around with replacing them with an overclocked 980 Ti (like a Hydro GFX, but overclocked with a custom BIOS). I will say that there have been situations where the SLI-powered rig generated a notably better gaming experience, but other times where the 980 Ti seemed to be stronger. Multi-GPU isn't 100% flawless and I don't think it'll ever be.

When we talk about 4K gaming, at least for this generation of Bulldog, remember a couple things:

1. The target we need to hit is 4K resolution, >30 fps, with at least high settings. This sets us miles ahead of consoles.

2. What Bulldog brings to the table is the ability to plug a liquid cooled GPU into your PC alongside a liquid cooled CPU, in a (relatively) small form factor. If we're at a situation where every last drop of performance is needed to have the best 4K gaming experience, then it stands to reason our product needs to be overclocking-ready and capable. So that's what Bulldog is meant to do: get you better than best.
__________________
Corsair DIY & Gaming Systems Architect
Product Manager for Cooling


Please do not send private messages requesting tech support or trouble shooting. You can create a thread and let the solution to your issue be visible to everyone, or alternatively, work directly with tech support by contacting them here.
Reply With Quote


  #7  
Old 11-23-2015, 03:50 PM
sebastiannielse sebastiannielse is offline
Registered User
sebastiannielse's PC Specs
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 165
POST ID # = 821708
sebastiannielse Reputation: 14
Default

The reason SLI does work in some places but not all, is because VRAM on the slave cards isn't used. So if you SLI up 4 cards with 6 Gb VRAM each, you will still have 6 Gb VRAM in total.

So if you play a VRAM-hungry game, it will go very sloppy in a SLI configuration, but if you play a game that more uses raw GPU processing power, and don't need to store so much in VRAM, then a SLI will boost up that configuration pretty well.

Thats why most cards add up so little in performance when SLI'ed, because the bottleneck is in the VRAM, not in GPU.

Google "VRAM stack SLI" for more information on this topic.
Reply With Quote


  #8  
Old 11-23-2015, 05:16 PM
mattlach mattlach is offline
Registered User
mattlach's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 221
POST ID # = 821728
mattlach Reputation: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastiannielse View Post
The reason SLI does work in some places but not all, is because VRAM on the slave cards isn't used. So if you SLI up 4 cards with 6 Gb VRAM each, you will still have 6 Gb VRAM in total.

So if you play a VRAM-hungry game, it will go very sloppy in a SLI configuration, but if you play a game that more uses raw GPU processing power, and don't need to store so much in VRAM, then a SLI will boost up that configuration pretty well.

Thats why most cards add up so little in performance when SLI'ed, because the bottleneck is in the VRAM, not in GPU.

Google "VRAM stack SLI" for more information on this topic.
Partially correct.

The VRAM on all cards in SLI is actually used, you just cant add it up, as the same data is duplicated in the VRAM of all the cards, because the PCIe bus is far too slow for one card to rely on RAM that exists on another card.

This is not the reason for poor SLI scaling though. Neither amount of nor speed of VRAM has a significant impact on performance.

Poor SLI scaling is usually due to a combination of CPU limitations and overhead caused by having to transport the rendered frame buffer from each card over the PCIe bus to the card connected to the monitor and outputting it there. The higher the resolution, the poorer the scaling will be as more data needs to be transported.

It may not sound like much, but when you are doing it 60+ times per second it adds up.

A single uncompressed 4k frame is 3840*2160*24bit(no gamma on rendered frames) = 24883200 bit, or ~23.73MB

In AFR every other frame will be rendered on the GPU connected directly to the monitor, and every other will be fetched from the secondary card, so 30 times per second a full frame traverses the bus, or 712MB/s

The CPU also adds up to this. Not only will running the game at a higher frame rate shift the bottleneck from the GPU's over to the CPU, but the calculations required for SLI in the drivers also increase the load on the CPU significantly in SLI, even at the same frame rate.

It was so much so that at the time of launch of my favorite game, Red Orchestra 2, back in 2011, my brand new AMD system could not keep up with the CPU load from two two Radeon 6970's. (Yes, I know, Crossfire, not SLI, but the principle is the same)

In fact, there was no AMD CPU on the market at the time that could handle Crossfire in RO2, which was disappointing to an old AMD fan like myself.

That's how I wound up with the i7-3930k

VRAM has very little to do with SLI inefficiency in scaling.

Yes, its a shame that they can't combine and you can have 12GB of RAM, but it is a moot point, as I don't think I've ever seen my cards use more than ~2.5GB anyway :p

Another issue with SLI is the inherent added input lag resulting from alternate frame rendering. Compare a theoretical fast single GPU with two theoretical half as fast GPU's in SLI.

The frame rate may be the same (provided you get 100% scaling, which will not happen) but the per frame render time is longer, resulting in input taking much longer to display on screen.

Illustration from an old 1999 review shing tghe inevitable input lag associated with AFR:


Last edited by mattlach; 11-23-2015 at 05:20 PM.
Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.