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  #16  
Old 11-17-2013, 05:13 PM
ICDP ICDP is offline
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Originally Posted by jonnyguru View Post
If you have no way to test it because your load is so small that it would never trigger the fan or trip the OTP, then the best advice I can give you is to RMA it regardless just so you don't have to deal with it once you do get the second card and start overclocking.

The affected units are in lot codes < 1341 (the first four digits of the S/N.)
Thank you again for the advice and the help. My serial begins 1355 so I missed out by a few :(

I submitted an advance return request ticket number 6261275. While this is a design flaw that should have been avoided, I must say the way Corsair are handling this and your support is excellent.

Thanks again


  #17  
Old 11-17-2013, 06:13 PM
jonnyguru jonnyguru is offline
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Originally Posted by ICDP View Post
Thank you again for the advice and the help. My serial begins 1355 so I missed out by a few :(
Well, actually 1355 is greater than 1341, so if that were your serial number, you'd be ok. ;)

But also, that can't be your serial number. Can you take a pic? Reason being: The first two digits are the year (13 = 2013) and the next two are the week (52 = last week of the year), so 1355 is impossible. ;)


  #18  
Old 11-17-2013, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jonnyguru View Post
Well, actually 1355 is greater than 1341, so if that were your serial number, you'd be ok. ;)

But also, that can't be your serial number. Can you take a pic? Reason being: The first two digits are the year (13 = 2013) and the next two are the week (52 = last week of the year), so 1355 is impossible. ;)
Doh! My apologies on the typo, the number starts with 1335.


  #19  
Old 11-17-2013, 08:40 PM
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Ok. So you might as well RMA the unit.


  #20  
Old 11-18-2013, 12:38 PM
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My RM750 falls into the affected lot codes. My RM750 lot code starts with 1333. When I tried to a create an RMA, it does not show model number CP-9020055-NA.


  #21  
Old 11-18-2013, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregpod9 View Post
My RM750 falls into the affected lot codes. My RM750 lot code starts with 1333. When I tried to a create an RMA, it does not show model number CP-9020055-NA.
Use CP-9020055-WW.
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  #22  
Old 11-19-2013, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyguru View Post
The affected units are in lot codes < 1341 (the first four digits of the S/N.)
So it is 100% sure that PSUs with LOT number > 1341 are NOT affected?
I ordered this kinda product, and cancelled my order :(
The serial number couldn't be said by the shop, doh!


  #23  
Old 11-19-2013, 05:43 PM
jonnyguru jonnyguru is offline
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1341 and below have one thermistor while serial numbers greater than 1341 have the two (separate one for the fan).

The first four digits of the serial number correspond with the date of manufacturer, so if a change is made in production, those numbers are going to be the best way to track it.


  #24  
Old 11-21-2013, 02:08 AM
Hrafn Hrafn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAM GUY View Post
We have found that our power supplies are typically used in environments much lower than 40°C and tend to have some natural aspiration within the chassis that allows for some air movement, such as from a nearby graphics card or chassis fan, within the PSU housing, when temperatures exceed normal room temperatures. We have found that this normal aspiration can maintain Corsair’s Zero-RPM fan-less mode even at temperatures as high as 35°C (95°F) when only at 40% load for durations of up to 15 minutes.
Is this (apparently fan-driven) "natural aspiration" assumption still valid when many chassis are designed to isolate the PSU airflow from the remainder of the components and draw and eject their air directly from/to the outside of the case? This may (or may not) still provide sufficient aspiration (due to heat convection) where the PSU intake vent is on the top of the case, but would almost certainly provide insufficient aspiration where the intake vent is on the bottom.

Some direction on appropriate orientation of the PSU may be appropriate in the product documentation for this series.


  #25  
Old 11-21-2013, 09:33 AM
jonnyguru jonnyguru is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrafn View Post
Is this (apparently fan-driven) "natural aspiration" assumption still valid when many chassis are designed to isolate the PSU airflow from the remainder of the components and draw and eject their air directly from/to the outside of the case? This may (or may not) still provide sufficient aspiration (due to heat convection) where the PSU intake vent is on the top of the case, but would almost certainly provide insufficient aspiration where the intake vent is on the bottom.
Room temperatures are typically much lower than internal PC temperatures, so there shouldn't be a problem unless the room temperature is unusually high (say, over 35°C). The fault was discovered when ambient temps were much higher (45°C) and without airflow, thus creating a smaller delta between ambient and operating temperature. Since the fan operates on both temperature and time delay, the temperatures raised too quickly for the fan controller to operate the fan. The ambient temperature of the room alone should be enough to maintain a lower operating temperature, so even prolonged operation at higher loads should give the fan controller adequate time to turn on the fan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrafn View Post
Some direction on appropriate orientation of the PSU may be appropriate in the product documentation for this series.
Actually, no. While some fanless units have orientation requirements, the RM Series can be mounted in any position just like any other actively cooled power supply.

Some fanless PSUs require a certain mounting orientation because they use the housing as a heatsink that needs to be exposed to the aspiration within the case or have vent holes that need to circulate air to/from the outside of the chassis. But keep in mind, these PSUs are made to run at 100% load without a fan. The RM cannot and should not operate anywhere near 100% without the fan turning on.


  #26  
Old 11-21-2013, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyguru View Post
Room temperatures are typically much lower than internal PC temperatures, so there shouldn't be a problem unless the room temperature is unusually high (say, over 35°C). The fault was discovered when ambient temps were much higher (45°C) and without airflow, thus creating a smaller delta between ambient and operating temperature. Since the fan operates on both temperature and time delay, the temperatures raised too quickly for the fan controller to operate the fan. The ambient temperature of the room alone should be enough to maintain a lower operating temperature, so even prolonged operation at higher loads should give the fan controller adequate time to turn on the fan.



Actually, no. While some fanless units have orientation requirements, the RM Series can be mounted in any position just like any other actively cooled power supply.

Some fanless PSUs require a certain mounting orientation because they use the housing as a heatsink that needs to be exposed to the aspiration within the case or have vent holes that need to circulate air to/from the outside of the chassis. But keep in mind, these PSUs are made to run at 100% load without a fan. The RM cannot and should not operate anywhere near 100% without the fan turning on.
Jonny I have some questions/assumptions I hope you could look at before I return my 750RM as my SN is 1333.
In all these assumptions, I assume that the PSU FAN is not spinning, because in my system, that draws 360W, I have not yet seen the fan spin.
  1. My first understanding is that the PSU will shut down if the PSU temp is too high. This can happen if the ambient (room) temp is > 45C. But if the airflow in the PSU is good, because of case architecture, PSU should be OK.
    PSU could also shut down when the ambient (room) temp is fine, but the case temp is very high (>45C), this could happen in "traditional" cases with very bad airflow, specifically where the PSU is top and rear mounted, because the hot case air convects up and into the PSU, adding more heat to the PSU which it self is already warm because its fans are not spinning.
  1. Can you clarify when the FAN will turn on in PSUs prior to SN=1345?
    As I understand, it will only spin if load >= 40%, regardless of PSU temperature, correct?
  1. If the PSU is bottom-mounted in a case where it intakes air from the floor and the PSU section of the case is cut off from the rest of the case, then the PSU sucks in room temp air, and as long as this is not >= 45c this situation will be dandy, because the case airflow cannot impact the PSU temp.

I my assumptions are true, I cannot see why I should RMA my 750RM.
I just have to either:
  • Monitor the case temp so that is not >45C
  • Use more power in which case the PSU fan will spin and remove air thus reducing temps to safe levels.
  • OR get a new case with bottom mounted PSU that intakes air from floor.

My specs:
Antec Sonata I, PSU rear and top mounted.
Intake fan: 120 mm 36/74 CFM (low/high)
Exhaust fan: 120 mm 36/74 CFM (low/high)
i5 2500K overclocked
GeForce 670GTX overclocked
Combined wattage at max load 375 W (3 threads of small FFT Prime95 + Furmark burn-in)


  #27  
Old 11-21-2013, 04:49 PM
jonnyguru jonnyguru is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jAMBAZZ View Post
Jonny I have some questions/assumptions I hope you could look at before I return my 750RM as my SN is 1333.
In all these assumptions, I assume that the PSU FAN is not spinning, because in my system, that draws 360W, I have not yet seen the fan spin.
How are you measuring this 360W? Also, if this is measured at the wall, keep in mind that this is AC, not DC. So if the PSU is 90% efficient, that means 90% of this AC is turned into DC, so the output is in the neighborhood of 324W.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jAMBAZZ View Post
  1. My first understanding is that the PSU will shut down if the PSU temp is too high. This can happen if the ambient (room) temp is > 45C. But if the airflow in the PSU is good, because of case architecture, PSU should be OK.
    PSU could also shut down when the ambient (room) temp is fine, but the case temp is very high (> 45C), this could happen in "traditional" cases with very bad airflow, specifically where the PSU is top and rear mounted, because the hot case air convects up and into the PSU, adding more heat to the PSU which it self is already warm because its fans are not spinning.
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jAMBAZZ View Post
  1. Can you clarify when the FAN will turn on in PSUs prior to SN=1345?
    As I understand, it will only spin if load >= 40%, regardless of PSU temperature, correct?
No. The fan turns on based on temperature, but there is a delay. The delay was added to prevent the constant on - off - on -off condition we got to see with earlier versions of the ZeroRPM (for example: the GS Series). Using the load in the marketing just makes the point in simpilar terms. I'm afraid I don't know the exact internal temperature the fan is supposed to turn on at, but if the room is 25°C and you're putting out 300W, your fan should turn on after about 15 minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jAMBAZZ View Post
  1. If the PSU is bottom-mounted in a case where it intakes air from the floor and the PSU section of the case is cut off from the rest of the case, then the PSU sucks in room temp air, and as long as this is not >= 45c this situation will be dandy, because the case airflow cannot impact the PSU temp.
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jAMBAZZ View Post
If my assumptions are true, I cannot see why I should RMA my 750RM.

I just have to either:
  • Monitor the case temp so that is not >45C
  • Use more power in which case the PSU fan will spin and remove air thus reducing temps to safe levels.
  • OR get a new case with bottom mounted PSU that intakes air from floor.

My specs:
Antec Sonata I, PSU rear and top mounted.
Intake fan: 120 mm 36/74 CFM (low/high)
Exhaust fan: 120 mm 36/74 CFM (low/high)
i5 2500K overclocked
GeForce 670GTX overclocked
Combined wattage at max load 375 W (3 threads of small FFT Prime95 + Furmark burn-in)
How long did you run Prime95 and Furmark together? If it's cold in your room right now, the fan may not trigger for a while. Like I said, it has to reach a particular temperature and maintain it for a period of time.

I'd say fire it up again and let it run for at least half an hour. Either the fan should turn on or the PC should shut off.


  #28  
Old 11-22-2013, 10:11 AM
jAMBAZZ jAMBAZZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyguru View Post
How are you measuring this 360W? Also, if this is measured at the wall, keep in mind that this is AC, not DC. So if the PSU is 90% efficient, that means 90% of this AC is turned into DC, so the output is in the neighborhood of 324W.
I measured it at the wall so you are totally right about the efficiency and AC/DC thing. I get 220V btw.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyguru View Post
No. The fan turns on based on temperature, but there is a delay. The delay was added to prevent the constant on - off - on -off condition we got to see with earlier versions of the ZeroRPM (for example: the GS Series). Using the load in the marketing just makes the point in simpilar terms. I'm afraid I don't know the exact internal temperature the fan is supposed to turn on at, but if the room is 25°C and you're putting out 300W, your fan should turn on after about 15 minutes.
I think we need more than 1 factor such as "room temp is 25°C" because if the PSU is bottom mounted in a room temp of 25° and uses 300W I would not expect it to start spinnings its fan at all, ever. On the other hand if room temp is 25° and the case temp is bad b/c of bad airflow and 300W output I would expect the fan to turn on.
In either situation: I thought the problem was that the fan does not turn on @ low loads in these early batches so why are we discussing this? I am still not sure I understand the conditions that need be met before this PSU shuts down. Also I don't understand what OTP means



Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyguru View Post
How long did you run Prime95 and Furmark together? If it's cold in your room right now, the fan may not trigger for a while. Like I said, it has to reach a particular temperature and maintain it for a period of time.

I'd say fire it up again and let it run for at least half an hour. Either the fan should turn on or the PC should shut off.
I think I left it on for 30 minutes, but I will test some more in the weekend!


PS: I found that I have a higher max wattage if I Prime95 1 less thread than available, because this leaves enough CPU resources to saturate furmark, which otherwise does not use 99% of the GPU.


  #29  
Old 11-22-2013, 12:57 PM
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OTP = Over Temperature Protection. OTP is what causes the PSU to shut down PRIOR to the fan coming on.

And you're correct. I should have said "ambient" instead of "room". It doesn't matter if the room is 25°C if the PSU is open to the inside of a hotter chassis. So to correct what I said: "If the ambints are 25°C and you're putting out 300W, your fan should turn on after about 15 minutes."


  #30  
Old 11-22-2013, 02:30 PM
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I recieved my RM850 directly from Corsair on 11-15-2013. I hope it was the newer model. I will check when I get home. It came directly from Corsair and took a week, so I am hopeing.


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