0razor1 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Guys I've just logged ticket # 6636852 @Technobeard @jonnyguru , Looking at you guys for help. Can you please look into this and help me lobby :p: I've got the TX750v2, and it has to be RMA'd. Local support says only RM750s have been approved for TX750s as they're EOL. Now I'm not happy with this replacement as there's a lot that I need to object to, and as Corsair has never failed me all these years, I'm hoping I can be helped out. 1. To begin with the TX is a single 12V rail PSU. The RM has two 12V rails. This is not what I paid for and single >> double rail systems. Which is why your AX and HX series are single rail. That's the standard. More details are unnecessary at this point. 2. The TX750v2 is made by Seasonic with great (somewhat) capacitors. The RM750 is NOT made by the same OEM and has an inferior design on a few counts counts- higher operating temperatures, higher ripple and lower quality capacitors. Specifically LTEC caps on the secondary circuit. Now I'm sure it'll still live up to the standards corsair sets for themselves but this has a great impact post purchase when a purchase is made on in depth reviews of the TX unit against the RM. Therein it satisfies your warranty life expectancy, but not the purchasers standards. 3. Looking at your current product line, the HX750 is the only product that has the same good quality caps and single 12V Rail, with the same wattage. Reduce the warranty and offer me this instead of the RM750 please. I am happy with getting what I bought. Going the RM route is a disappointment. Therein the RM850 still has *some* good stuff given the yet another OEM and better reviews and tear-downs. Indian RMA management has this to say - if you can get approval from any corsair member from international support we'll do as they instruct. We have both RM850 and HX750 in stock. While RM850 reduces me to the same issue of two 12V rails insted of 1, it's still better than the RM750. Please try to put in a good word. A long time back yellowbeard put in a good word with Indian support ( they were a pain back then when Aditya had their contract and now Kaizen does), and this was made possible. Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee jonnyguru Posted June 17, 2015 Corsair Employee Share Posted June 17, 2015 RM doesn't have two +12V rails. Not sure where you got that information from. RM has a single +12V rail. RM is actually a fair replacement. Seasonic build does not automatically mean a better build quality than CWT. You're talking about a very old design PSU versus a modern day topology. Bronze vs. Gold. That said, HX (non-i) is another discontinued product, so for the sake of moving some old inventory, I would say that's a fair replacement too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Technobeard Posted June 17, 2015 Administrators Share Posted June 17, 2015 I've passed on the ticket info to the customer service team who will talk to the team in India about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0razor1 Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hi , Thanks for replying. Sorry I was wrong about the RM750 having two rails.. well, besides that, what about the secondary caps you mentioned on your teardown as being inferior, and with their ripple and regulation being worse than the TX 750v2 ? Even if HX is EOL I really don't mind whatever they have in stock that basically had better caps. Being a passive unit surely if the warranty is 5 years it'll most probably last that long. We as consumers make that choice post details reviews as you make. Quality caps are first and foremost, ripple noise etc. come second, warranty last IMO. CWT isn't bad at all, but LTEC!? Is there any comparison to be made given their Tier 3 choice of caps? EDIT: Technobeard, thanks for the feedback. May I ask, if you could PM me ( don't know if this forum allows that since I can't PM you ! ) what your suggestion is? Thanks a ton! EDIT 2 : Forgot to mention quite pleased at the TAT for forum participation on Corsair's side. Glad I stick to just you guys for memory cooling and power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee jonnyguru Posted June 17, 2015 Corsair Employee Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hi , Thanks for replying. Sorry I was wrong about the RM750 having two rails.. well, besides that, what about the secondary caps you mentioned on your teardown as being inferior, and with their ripple and regulation being worse than the TX 750v2 ? Even if HX is EOL I really don't mind whatever they have in stock that basically had better caps. Actually, the "tear down" on jonnyguru.com wasn't done by me. It was done by Jeremy. And while the capacitors aren't all Japanese, they are still rated at 105°C. And the ripple is actually better on the RM versus the TX. Not sure where you see that it's not. In Jeremy's review of the TX, he found the +3.3V and +5V ripple to be just under 25mV and the +12V at under 40mV. The RM reviewed with the same on the +5V, 15mV on the +3.3V and 30mV for the +12V. Being a passive unit surely if the warranty is 5 years it'll most probably last that long. We as consumers make that choice post details reviews as you make. Quality caps are first and foremost, ripple noise etc. come second, warranty last IMO. CWT isn't bad at all, but LTEC!? Is there any comparison to be made given their Tier 3 choice of caps? LTEC isn't a "premium brand" for sure, but all caps in PSUs today are made in China because the import fees are too high. Even Japanese "brand" caps are made in China. Corsair has done extensive QC testing on those caps and they will certainly last for the life of the PSU and then some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0razor1 Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hi , and thanks for your post, appreciated. Well I was indeed wrong to assume that the RM models were dual rail, and perhaps the ripple was a problem as well. Well, Hard had a bad review on the RM model (fail!! and yes I read the editor's note, but shutting down under tough conditions isn't the only problem - in India the street hits 50*C) , so that kinda painted a different picture altogether, appalling to say the least. Unexpected more-so. That's when I set out to buy my TX v2 and was pleased with my call at the time ( Christmas '13 ). Are we talking about the TX750v2 Seasonic unit with inferior ripple compared to an RM750 ? Further since the OEM has changed on the RM750, that's got to make it difficult to track review wise. Why not just launch an RM750v2 with the thermistor fix and OEM change. Looks better from a consumer standpoint as well. LTEC --- I see your point with the 'Made in China' moniker etc... Foxconn has crazy QC when it comes to Apple. So that's never a bad thing. I understand most Jap caps are made there as well, though under stringent QC which I suppose Corsair maintains over all their product segments. That way there's no reason to buy an AX over the RM and CS over the CX. When we pay more, we get what we pay for. There's a precise reason 'premium' components are used more widely as we go higher up the PSU ladder. Else Japanese , Taiwanese and Chinese Caps should be all alike! Switching OEMs post first review is drawing the ire of a lot of PSU experts and though Corsair remains to be my brand of choice in this country, elitists have started to look to the V series by CM and X by Seasonic etc. I for one don't like their hate all over OCN for example, but it's not totally unwarranted. Seriously though, when will you guys start making Mobos so I can get in line? :D And Cgts. with the Fury x CLC deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee jonnyguru Posted June 17, 2015 Corsair Employee Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hi , and thanks for your post, appreciated. Well I was indeed wrong to assume that the RM models were dual rail, and perhaps the ripple was a problem as well. Well, Hard had a bad review on the RM model (fail!! and yes I read the editor's note, but shutting down under tough conditions isn't the only problem - in India the street hits 50*C) As you know, that was addressed after the first couple batches: http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=123484 Are we talking about the TX750v2 Seasonic unit with inferior ripple compared to an RM750 ? Further since the OEM has changed on the RM750, that's got to make it difficult to track review wise. Why not just launch an RM750v2 with the thermistor fix and OEM change. Looks better from a consumer standpoint as well. We're talking about any new PSU. As long as the PSU is supposed to REPLACE another series or get a revision, the replacement is supposed to have better ripple suppression and better voltage regulation than anything prior. Any RM, HX, HXi, AX, AXi... are going to be better than a TX in that respect. As for the "version designation", I really don't know why they stopped doing the "V2" or "2013 edition" thing that they used to do. My guess it was to appease retailers that don't want to create new SKUs. They go by lot codes. I can't say that India has received the new CWT made RM's with all Japanese caps or not (it was the older Chicony that had the Chinese caps). And, like I said, the thermistor fix happened WAY early on. Not just with the OEM change. Only the first couple weeks of production had the overheating problem and that was quickly resolved, so I'm sure any RM that you get in India is NOT going to have the thermal problem. Those units were essentially all recalled. LTEC --- I see your point with the 'Made in China' moniker etc... Foxconn has crazy QC when it comes to Apple. So that's never a bad thing. I understand most Jap caps are made there as well, though under stringent QC which I suppose Corsair maintains over all their product segments. That way there's no reason to buy an AX over the RM and CS over the CX. When we pay more, we get what we pay for. There's a precise reason 'premium' components are used more widely as we go higher up the PSU ladder. Else Japanese , Taiwanese and Chinese Caps should be all alike! Switching OEMs post first review is drawing the ire of a lot of PSU experts and though Corsair remains to be my brand of choice in this country, elitists have started to look to the V series by CM and X by Seasonic etc. I for one don't like their hate all over OCN for example, but it's not totally unwarranted. Actually, it is mostly unwarranted. A lot of assumptions are being made. Japanese brands have a "reputation" of being better and it's difficult to change people's minds about that. That's why the new RM and everything above (RMi, HXi, etc.) get all Japanese caps. Not because they perform better or last longer, but because that's what people expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0razor1 Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Thanks for the post, again :D Yes indeed, the lot codes are probably more digestible for the general reseller, that being the only plus.. I'm glad someone agrees on the versioning problem. This thread was damn near awful, http://www.overclock.net/t/1455892/why-you-might-not-want-to-buy-a-corsair-rm-psu See its the CWT exhaust delta - it's way too high. In our country it's asking for trouble. The Chicony one seems to have better regard for temps. So it's a tradeoff isn't it. Old RM750 = better internal temps and soldering vs new RM750 = worse internal temps, no shutdown woes and presumably better caps. Would it be too much to root for ( even though discontinued) , an HX with reduced warranty? Or am I just being stubborn beyond unreasonable now. I do push my luck often. Just heard too much about the RM to want one. The RM even has sleeve bearings instead of ball bearings on the TX. This doesn't bode well for long term horizontal axis use (noise). EDIT + UPDATE: Just went through the RMi launch news - that's where they're back to all Japanese caps. That would be fine with me if they did a RMi750 replacement. TB hope you're reading this :) Seeing as how this just launched in w1 June, I will wait if that's a possible remedy at this point. Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Technobeard Posted June 17, 2015 Administrators Share Posted June 17, 2015 I'd suggest simply responding back to your ticket and they can discuss the replacements with you. Don't need me as the middle man when you can talk to them directly :) I talked to the support team and they've already updated it to the HX750 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0razor1 Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Oh thanks! Lovely! I'd give you a hug if I could! You guys give Corsair the CS rep they duly deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee jonnyguru Posted June 18, 2015 Corsair Employee Share Posted June 18, 2015 This thread was damn near awful, http://www.overclock.net/t/1455892/why-you-might-not-want-to-buy-a-corsair-rm-psu See its the CWT exhaust delta - it's way too high. In our country it's asking for trouble. The Chicony one seems to have better regard for temps. So it's a tradeoff isn't it. Old RM750 = better internal temps and soldering vs new RM750 = worse internal temps, no shutdown woes and presumably better caps. Would it be too much to root for ( even though discontinued) , an HX with reduced warranty? Or am I just being stubborn beyond unreasonable now. I do push my luck often. Just heard too much about the RM to want one. The RM even has sleeve bearings instead of ball bearings on the TX. This doesn't bode well for long term horizontal axis use (noise) RM doesn't have a sleeve bearing. It's a rifled bearing. It was used because it's quieter than DBB, but gives longer life than sleeve (which is also quieter). And that thread at OCN is hilarious. I really need to respond to it. It shows that certain people shouldn't be vennding advice on PSUs. A PSU of a particular efficiency at a particular wattage does not run hotter than another of the same wattage and efficiency. 10W of heat is still 10W of heat. That can be translated into an actual temperature, but you have to do math involving the volume of the internals of the PSU, etc., but trust me... If two PSUs are 90% efficient at the same load, they're generating the same amount of heat. A PSU can have "hot spots" but it takes a thermal imaging camera to see that. If the exhaust temperature of one is HIGHER than another that is because the fan is doing a better job of evacuating the heat then the other. That's right... You actually WANT a higher exhaust temperature as long as the by product of that isn't a louder fan (trade off). So, you see... You can't believe everything you read on the internet. And I've been seriously considering writing a book called "Everything you know about power supplies is wrong.". ;): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0razor1 Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Ha I'd love that. Consider me at the edge of my chair. The delta, makes sense. The review had it all wrong. Shilka got me believing as I skimmed a lot of muck on that particular thread. Some loud mouths, with no disrespect to OCN, have hit way too low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0razor1 Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Just to think about it, rifle is a somewhat better sleeve bearing any way you look at it. (?) In fact can rifle be adapted to FDB ( am I right?) and while it's dead silent ( I've been using CM R4 fans with the rifle bearings - they were first to bring them here in India, can't fault my lack of choice), they tend to deteriorate faster than DBB. Further the axis of alignment matters ? With vertical being OK and horizontal leading to quick deterioration, something that doesn't affect DBB half as much. Now with a PSU having the fan with horizontal alignment only, this is important? Isnt' that the reason why the RMi have DFB fans instead of rifle? Not MTBF, but noise as things age, especially in that flat position. ( awaiting more enlightenment !) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee jonnyguru Posted June 18, 2015 Corsair Employee Share Posted June 18, 2015 Rifle bearings are often misrepresented as FDB. The two are not even close to the same. Rifle bearings last a long time because the bearing (or rather, bushing) has a rifling that circulates the lubricant as the fan spins. Orientation is not an issue. The reason why rifle bearings don't last as long as DBB is because you still lack that ball bearing which reduces friction. A thin layer of lubricant, even if it is being constantly circulated, can only hold up so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0razor1 Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Indeed. Which reinforces my faith in DBB over rifle /sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee jonnyguru Posted June 18, 2015 Corsair Employee Share Posted June 18, 2015 Sure, but in an application where the fan only spins when the PSU is under heavy loads, even that rifle bearing fan is going to outlast the PSU itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0razor1 Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Some may argue that noise in the beginning is pretty low and goes up tremendously as time progresses. Well I told you how hot it gets here. That and the fact that I run about 500+ watts load.. (oc fx and 280x) with tons of peripherals... The fan should spin a ton. So you're saying that rifle bearings are orientation independent as compared to sleeve? I don't see the physics behind it. As you said, the missing balls to reduce the contact will continue to have an impact, I believe albeit at a lower rate as compared to simple sleeve but still higher than DBB. Where does DFB fit in ( I'm new to this though I have studied the tips and patent workarounds)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee jonnyguru Posted June 18, 2015 Corsair Employee Share Posted June 18, 2015 The rifle bearings do not get louder over time. And the rifling is the reason why orientation doesn't effect longevity because the lubricant doesn't "pool" like it can with a sleeve bearing. The bearing is "always wet". FDB is as good as you can get. Best of all worlds. You have a sealed pool of oil that the shaft spins in. They are the quietest and have the longest life of all the bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0razor1 Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Thanks for the inputs mate, will help my PSU selection. If RMi turns out to be the beast they've specc'd it to be, that's my next build. Let's wait for your tear-down shall we :) I checked with India support and they said it'll take a couple of months before availability is as possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee jonnyguru Posted June 18, 2015 Corsair Employee Share Posted June 18, 2015 An RMi review is due to be published next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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