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  #16  
Old 02-05-2020, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Oagrintel View Post
You're right, it's my fault for buying the AIO and the LL120 without reading your FAQ more closely the first time.
this has been the problem all along buddy. My FAQ exists purely to help but has to be read fully to be understood.. and not just once imho.

i mean... how much was that singular fan? around $25? that is not cheap for a computer fan and at that price you should have asked your self why and researched a little more.. which is exactly what i did and exactly why i made the FAQ.


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Originally Posted by Oagrintel View Post
in the hopes that maybe Corsair will be open to feedback and provide 1 competitively priced product that controls the Fans and the RGB.
they do.. its called the Commander Pro dude... given what it does.. its priced fair compared to what others offer at their price point.
if you take time to read what the Commander Pro offers compared to whats available else where you will understand the price difference.


6 fan headers
2 RGB channels
4 Thermister headers
2 USB headers
2 rgb hub cables
4 thermister probs
4 pwm extensions.

and a suite of software support thats is above and beyond what anyone else has on offer and not just rgb control or fan control but full system monitoring.. the ability to sync your AIO into it along with many other Corsair devices. did i mentioning controlling Asus motherboards RGB too?..

the reason for the hubs is versatility. if they made it so it only controlled 6 fans directly what would i do with my 32 LL fans?.. thats a lot of Commander Pro's buddy... but with how this eco system works i have managed to control and sync all 32 fans RGB and RPM with one Commander Pro!.

there is no other company offering anything even close to what the Commander Pro can do. same for iCUE





Click for full res .



you mention what Nzxt have to offer.. well i was a Nzxt user prior to moving over to Corsair... i moved because i couldn't cope with the failures and then the following lack of decent after sales support any more. and then there was the software.. omg.. have you read up on it? i suggest you do.. as i said.. cheaper isnt always better buddy.. a good saying my grandfather used to say still stands well today... Pay Peanuts.. get Monkeys..


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oagrintel View Post
Thank you for writing the FAQ, I apologize for offending you with my observations about the Corsair products and subsequent feedback requesting an update to the Corsair products.
and there it is again.

is it intended sarcasm maybe? but aimed at the wrong person? because that does not apply to anything i have said in any way shape or form buddy... here are both my posts.. show me where i questioned your observations aside from the price of the hub?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotty View Post
Thats Amazon.....

POST 1

here is the Corsair Site at $9.99

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Catego...b/p/CO-8950020




I wrote the Faq btw




You might find the Competition may want to adjust their product line so they can compete with Corsair.. cheaper isnt always better!


---------------------------------------------------------------------

POST 2
Did you actually read my post?

Think you are confusing me with someone else. You made at least 3 false accusations aimed at me. All 3 was aimed at the wrong person... and i think this is 99% of your problem.. you dont actually fully read/research anything.. that is clear from the stuff you just accused me of!. Much assumption me thinks.. which seems to be a reoccurring pattern in this thread/story.

I come here in my own time and offer as much help as i can. I spent years perfecting that faq so people like your self wouldnt make assumptions. Yet here we are.. cant help all the people all the time


Bottom line.. you bought into an ecosystem with out researching it...sorry man.. just saying it like it is


anyways... all that aside..

I am here to help man.. and happy to help i am.. if you would rather seek advice in private so things don't go pear shaped as it seams they did here.. PM me any time matey... i really am happy to answer questions/give advice/help out where i can...

Zotty

PS,, absolutely no offence meant.. or Sarcasm implied.. purely trying to help man.. and of course show you the bigger picture and maybe the impact of the words you may use ;).


PPS... its nice to be nice :).. i like nice.. its nice

Last edited by Zotty; 02-05-2020 at 04:01 PM.
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  #17  
Old 02-06-2020, 12:15 AM
acemaninwa871 acemaninwa871 is online now
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Give Zotty a chance. He's great guy that has helped so many people understand the corsair ecosystem.
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  #18  
Old 02-06-2020, 10:54 PM
Oagrintel Oagrintel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotty View Post
Thats Amazon.....

here is the Corsair Site at $9.99

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Catego...b/p/CO-8950020




I wrote the Faq btw




You might find the Competition may want to adjust their product line so they can compete with Corsair.. cheaper isnt always better!
EDIT: Read my response to your second post first.

Sorry, I lost track of this post amid the rest of the responses I was getting, apologies for the mis-reply

Thank you for the FAQ as well!

I bought the H100i and the LL120 after a I saw the Commander on the shelf at Best Buy and confirmed what I had read on the web-site about it handling "Digital RGB lighting and Fan Speed Controller" I thought it would control the Fans and their RGB, so I bought 2 x LL120 fans and the H100i Platinum SE before the money burned a hole in my pocket. I was thinking I would be able to buy a Commander next paycheck and have the RGB and Fan control in one product... I was putting my new build together "One piece at a time" (for any Johnny Cash fans out there). Then when it came time to buy the Commander, I saw that as far as the LED goes, the Commander only controls RGB strips and older RGB fans, not LL120 RGB, i.e. it doesn't have the 4 pin RGB connector that the LL120 needs. Then I took a closer look at the your FAQ (thank you for doing it) and saw I would need a RGB Hub. I looked on the Corsair site and didn't see it listed in and among the Commander and Lighting Node.

I found it on Amazon for more $$, I think I saw you (?) respond to a comment on Amazon pointing out it was available for $9.99 on the Corsair site? When I saw that comment on Amazon I tried again to find it on the Corsair site, I looked and looked on your website and could not find it (search links below, I'm not making it up) but I didn't see it listed under any of the searches I was doing for RGB or Fan searches. Yes, feel free to poke fun at me for not searching for the exact product name, but when I saw the Commander and Lighting Node come up, I figured I was in the right place.

I'm not arguing it's not there, I'm just trying to provide feedback that when a new customer goes looking for it, it doesn't come up on any of the RGB control or Fan control related searches:

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Catego...2#rotatingText

I had tried a couple of ways...

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Catego...2#rotatingText

Any chance that in the future either the RGB connection on the Commander could include LL120 fan RGB leads, or the Lighting Hub could add a few LL120 Fan connections?

Last edited by Oagrintel; 02-07-2020 at 12:32 AM.
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  #19  
Old 02-07-2020, 12:14 AM
Oagrintel Oagrintel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotty View Post
Did you actually read my post?

Think you are confusing me with someone else. You made at least 3 false accusations aimed at me. All 3 was aimed at the wrong person... and i think this is 99% of your problem.. you dont actually fully read/research anything.. that is clear from the stuff you just accused me of!. Much assumption me thinks.. which seems to be a reoccurring pattern in this thread/story.

I come here in my own time and offer as much help as i can. I spent years perfecting that faq so people like your self wouldnt make assumptions. Yet here we are.. cant help all the people all the time


Bottom line.. you bought into an ecosystem with out researching it...sorry man.. just saying it like it is
Edit: Read this one first

Apologies, I did mix up your post about the Hub being available for $9.99 with the other replies I was getting.

Fair point about my research errors...
I looked on the Corsair Web Site and saw where the Commander description said "Create, customize, and synchronize stunning RGB lighting effects when you connect CORSAIR RGB fans", and "Two RGB lighting channels combined with powerful CORSAIR iCUE software complete customization of individually addressable RGB LED strips and CORSAIR RGB fans." https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Catego.../CL-9011110-WW

Based on that, I went and looked at the Commander box in Best Buy and I saw where it said on the Box "Digital RGB Lighting and Fan Speed Controller"

I didn't make this up, it even said on the description... "Dual-channel lighting conduct a symphony of RGB lighting with individually addressable RGB LED strips (sold separately) and unleash the full RGB potential of the HD RGB and SP RGB fans (sold separately)."
... my mistake, I read "... RGB fans..." and as an old guy doing my first build in a long time I wasn't paying attention to the "...SP..." in front, I failed to realize the difference between a LL120 and SP120 at the time... I figured an RGB fan is an RGB fan and the Commander says it could control the RGB... obviously I was wrong.

I did find your FAQ when I was double checking things before I bought the Commander, and that was what made me realize the Commander wouldn't control the LL120 Fan RGB. My error was in reading where the packaging says "Digital RGB Lighting and Fan Speed Controller".

Yes, I realize now my original post on Corsair Forums has definitely come across as more blasphemous then helpful, but my intent was to let my lessons learned be a warning to others: Commander doesn't control newer FAN RGB, you'll have to buy a second piece to control the Fan RGB on the LL120 Fans (granted, its easier to find for $54.99 on Amazon than it is to find it on Corsair site for $9.99, but it's there), and to ask Corsair if there's the possibility of providing one combined product similar to what your competition is providing at a more competitive price.

Can you please talk to whoever handles the web site and ask them to add the $9.99 Hub to the search under 'ambient lighting': https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Catego...t#rotatingText

... or even 'accessories': https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Catego...2#rotatingText

Last edited by Oagrintel; 02-07-2020 at 12:32 AM.
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  #20  
Old 02-07-2020, 12:48 AM
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No worries man.....


RGB hub seems to find it in the store......

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  #21  
Old 02-07-2020, 01:33 AM
Oagrintel Oagrintel is offline
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Originally Posted by Zotty View Post
this has been the problem all along buddy. My FAQ exists purely to help but has to be read fully to be understood.. and not just once imho.

i mean... how much was that singular fan? around $25? that is not cheap for a computer fan and at that price you should have asked your self why and researched a little more.. which is exactly what i did and exactly why i made the FAQ.

they do.. its called the Commander Pro dude... given what it does.. its priced fair compared to what others offer at their price point.
if you take time to read what the Commander Pro offers compared to whats available else where you will understand the price difference.

6 fan headers
2 RGB channels
4 Thermister headers
2 USB headers
2 rgb hub cables
4 thermister probs
4 pwm extensions.

and a suite of software support thats is above and beyond what anyone else has on offer and not just rgb control or fan control but full system monitoring.. the ability to sync your AIO into it along with many other Corsair devices. did i mentioning controlling Asus motherboards RGB too?..

the reason for the hubs is versatility. if they made it so it only controlled 6 fans directly what would i do with my 32 LL fans?.. thats a lot of Commander Pro's buddy... but with how this eco system works i have managed to control and sync all 32 fans RGB and RPM with one Commander Pro!.

there is no other company offering anything even close to what the Commander Pro can do. same for iCUE





Click for full res .

you mention what Nzxt have to offer.. well i was a Nzxt user prior to moving over to Corsair... i moved because i couldn't cope with the failures and then the following lack of decent after sales support any more. and then there was the software.. omg.. have you read up on it? i suggest you do.. as i said.. cheaper isnt always better buddy.. a good saying my grandfather used to say still stands well today... Pay Peanuts.. get Monkeys..

and there it is again.

is it intended sarcasm maybe? but aimed at the wrong person? because that does not apply to anything i have said in any way shape or form buddy... here are both my posts.. show me where i questioned your observations aside from the price of the hub?

anyways... all that aside..

I am here to help man.. and happy to help i am.. if you would rather seek advice in private so things don't go pear shaped as it seams they did here.. PM me any time matey... i really am happy to answer questions/give advice/help out where i can...

Zotty

PS,, absolutely no offence meant.. or Sarcasm implied.. purely trying to help man.. and of course show you the bigger picture and maybe the impact of the words you may use ;).

PPS... its nice to be nice :).. i like nice.. its nice
First let me say thanks for the reply despite my frustrated "who's on first..." mis-replies to your previous posts. I apologize, I was mixing up your replies with some of the other replies I was getting. I replied to your earlier posts once I realized my mistake.

You are correct, the Commander Pro has a lot of good functions, for me it does half of what I want, and it can handle 99 other problems I don't have ;)

... wait ... did you say you have 32 fans? Tuesday night at 9:00 at the YMCA is a meeting you need to go to, stand up and say "My name is Zotty and I am addicted to RGB", just kidding... but seriously, lol. But before you go, please tell me more about controlling the ASUS Motherboard LED control, would I have to buy the Commander for that or can I do it through icue? Asus Aura doesn't match the colors/features of Icue.

My system is a lot simpler, just an AIO and an exhaust fan https://pcpartpicker.com/b/gTXPxr
I'm considering adding the Commander so I could add the other LL120 to the AIO and still have LL120 for exhaust and I appreciate the Hub is only $9.99, but it's more of an issue of having room in the ITX case for two more components and the wiring back and forth as well. I guess I could put them under the roof of my case to keep them out of the way.

I appreciate your feedback on your experience with NZXT, I am considering it more to get matching RGB fans on the AIO and case exhaust (heavy lifting of cooling being done by Noctua pressure fans on AIO intake) and to have 1 small controller that's easier to hide in the ITX case than 2 controllers.

Am I the only customer that has asked for LL120 RGB and Fan control in 1 product not 2? (not being sarcastic)

(slight sarcasm) Is Corsair aware of ITX cases and the trend of components getting smaller?

Thanks in advance for not making any size jokes of your build vs mine!
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  #22  
Old 02-07-2020, 02:34 AM
Oagrintel Oagrintel is offline
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Originally Posted by Zotty View Post
No worries man.....


RGB hub seems to find it in the store......

[Full Sarcasm] Now you're just showing off...

I apologize if this is just the frustration of a new customer that didn't realize what is common knowledge [no sarcasm], but for every outspoken customer with a question there are hundreds of customers who silently took their $$$ elsewhere without asking.

Take off your 'Corsair Expert' hat for a second, and imagine you're a hypothetical NEW customer, NEW to Corsair RGBs, FANs, AIOs, etc. If the Hub is that critical of a component why isn't it listed under 'ambient lighting' next to the Commander, the Lighting Node, and the RGB strips? I stumbled on it after looking on Amazon, and from there I went back to Corsair and didn't find it listed anywhere under the same searches that show the Commander, the Lighting Node, and the RGB strips... shouldn't it be there with the other associated components?

Here: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Catego...2#rotatingText
or here:
https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Catego...2#rotatingText

Don't get me wrong, you are right it's there if you do a specific search for it, but [slight sarcasm] is it intended to be a like a scavenger hunt for customers to find what they need? Do we have to do a specific search for that specific thing we didn't know about and won't come up in the standard searches that list all the other RGB products?

/rant off, appreciate your help and patience with my misplaced "who's on first" frustration.


Last edited by Oagrintel; 02-07-2020 at 03:39 AM.
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  #23  
Old 02-07-2020, 01:20 PM
c-attack c-attack is offline
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Originally Posted by Oagrintel View Post
...Then when it came time to buy the Commander, I saw that as far as the LED goes, the Commander only controls RGB strips and older RGB fans, not LL120 RGB, i.e. it doesn't have the 4 pin RGB connector that the LL120 needs. Then I took a closer look at the your FAQ (thank you for doing it) and saw I would need a RGB Hub.
....

Any chance that in the future either the RGB connection on the Commander could include LL120 fan RGB leads, or the Lighting Hub could add a few LL120 Fan connections?
We are are still wrestling with the hardware functions. The Lighting Node Pro (LNP) is a "RGB Lighting controller" with no fan speed control. The Commander Pro is a LNP with a fan controller, and thus the large difference in size. You have to have one of those devices in order to get the software to interface with the hardware.

The little 6 port "RGB Lighting Hub" has a different, but very necessary function. It supplies the lighting power to those fans via the 5v SATA liner. A typical LL fan uses a maximum of 0.30A for the fan motor (motherboard or other fan controller). 6 would use 1.8A, which isn't all that much. On the other side the lighting current for a single LL fan can reach 0.6A. 6 of those at 3.6A is getting close the limits for what you can supply and ultimately it is the lighting current that limits what you can and cannot do when designing or implementing them.

All of the fans need that RGB Lighting Hub to supply the lighting power. Some of the very first ones (HD and SP-original) had a thumb remote to manually shift through, as was common on the prior generation. That thumb remote was/is replaced the LNP or C-Pro. You still have to have the RGB Lighting Hub or there is no lighting power.

No, you are absolutely not the first person to want to add a single RGB fan to the system and then run into the wall of terminology and hardware, plus a tangle of wires. As I have stated and you were able to figure on your own, the economics of adding a single with all necessary hardware is not very good. How many would want a single fan RGB hub? Probably not reasonable. OK, 3. But does the cost of manufacturing and hardware drive the price up further than it what you would expect? The NZXT 3 fan version is about half the price vs the 6 port C-Pro, but it is a lot less than half the controller. I understand you don't need or immediately see a use for those functions, but they are essential for a control in this ecosystem and I would use a Commander Pro even if I had no RGB fans. Does it make sense for them to manufacture a stripped down 3 port version for say 60% of the cost? There certainly are economy of scale considerations. It seems highly likely someone already ran those calculations. Either way, the point was not make people buy more fans. 6 is the magic number in a lot of systems. You have an ITX build going. There is always going to be an element of compromise because of the size limitations. I understand and that is why neither of the two recommendations I made for you include a Commander Pro, even if it is indispensable for me.

You asked about combing the RGB hub and the LNP (or other lighting software interface device). They have done this. It is the Lighting Node Core. To my knowledge, it is only offered as included equipment on the new QL and SP-Pro fans. Would it have been more cost or space effective for you? I am not sure. I suspect it would work out the same in cost and you can decide what is easier - two small packages or one larger one. However, there are always compromises made and it has some limitations as well. Ultimately we are unlikely to get one giant 6 port fan controller and lighting hub in one package both in terms of current requirements and the resulting heat. The Commander Pro gets a little warm as is. Adding in 3-4A of lighting current to another chunk on the circuit board won't help with that.

Last edited by c-attack; 02-07-2020 at 01:22 PM.
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  #24  
Old 02-08-2020, 02:45 AM
Oagrintel Oagrintel is offline
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Originally Posted by c-attack View Post
We are are still wrestling with the hardware functions. The Lighting Node Pro (LNP) is a "RGB Lighting controller" with no fan speed control. The Commander Pro is a LNP with a fan controller, and thus the large difference in size. You have to have one of those devices in order to get the software to interface with the hardware.

The little 6 port "RGB Lighting Hub" has a different, but very necessary function. It supplies the lighting power to those fans via the 5v SATA liner. A typical LL fan uses a maximum of 0.30A for the fan motor (motherboard or other fan controller). 6 would use 1.8A, which isn't all that much. On the other side the lighting current for a single LL fan can reach 0.6A. 6 of those at 3.6A is getting close the limits for what you can supply and ultimately it is the lighting current that limits what you can and cannot do when designing or implementing them.

All of the fans need that RGB Lighting Hub to supply the lighting power. Some of the very first ones (HD and SP-original) had a thumb remote to manually shift through, as was common on the prior generation. That thumb remote was/is replaced the LNP or C-Pro. You still have to have the RGB Lighting Hub or there is no lighting power.

No, you are absolutely not the first person to want to add a single RGB fan to the system and then run into the wall of terminology and hardware, plus a tangle of wires. As I have stated and you were able to figure on your own, the economics of adding a single with all necessary hardware is not very good. How many would want a single fan RGB hub? Probably not reasonable. OK, 3. But does the cost of manufacturing and hardware drive the price up further than it what you would expect? The NZXT 3 fan version is about half the price vs the 6 port C-Pro, but it is a lot less than half the controller. I understand you don't need or immediately see a use for those functions, but they are essential for a control in this ecosystem and I would use a Commander Pro even if I had no RGB fans. Does it make sense for them to manufacture a stripped down 3 port version for say 60% of the cost? There certainly are economy of scale considerations. It seems highly likely someone already ran those calculations. Either way, the point was not make people buy more fans. 6 is the magic number in a lot of systems. You have an ITX build going. There is always going to be an element of compromise because of the size limitations. I understand and that is why neither of the two recommendations I made for you include a Commander Pro, even if it is indispensable for me.

You asked about combing the RGB hub and the LNP (or other lighting software interface device). They have done this. It is the Lighting Node Core. To my knowledge, it is only offered as included equipment on the new QL and SP-Pro fans. Would it have been more cost or space effective for you? I am not sure. I suspect it would work out the same in cost and you can decide what is easier - two small packages or one larger one. However, there are always compromises made and it has some limitations as well. Ultimately we are unlikely to get one giant 6 port fan controller and lighting hub in one package both in terms of current requirements and the resulting heat. The Commander Pro gets a little warm as is. Adding in 3-4A of lighting current to another chunk on the circuit board won't help with that.
Thank you for your reply, I appreciate the explanation and a better understanding of the full features of the Commander, Hub and the larger system it was designed to work in.

I am definitely getting a better sense of the focus of Corsairs product line up (and I don't mean this in any sort of derogatory way) being the bigger custom machines that feature more fans, multiple AIO, custom loops, etc. If I understand that somewhat correctly, I have a better understanding of how my feedback concerning my limited application of the 1 Fan and AIO came across.

I appreciate the explanation of the electrical limitations that sound somewhat prohibitive to make a product that would support the Fan and RGB requirements in the builds the majority of your customers have, i.e it wouldn't work combining 6 Fan controls with 6 RGB controls in one Component. I think I have a better understanding of why Corsair has those as two separate products... most of your customers are going to have to have 3-4 of each anyway, it makes sense to split them up by function in builds the scale a lot of your customers probably use them in.

As Zotty pointed out, it seems I took a couple pieces out of a larger ecosystem design and I'm complaining how it doesn't work in my limited smaller design... which is fair enough.

An approximate (not exact) automotive analogy would be I can't complain if I added big Corsair Sub-woofers & Amp, and then have to add the Corsair Battery and Fuzebox. If i want the cool AIO and case fan, I would have to accept the bigger Commander and Lighting Node which are made to work in bigger applications than I'm using.

Maybe in the future Corsair could release some sort of 'half commander' with an eye for the ITX crowd that could handle 3-4 RGB and 3-4 Fan controllers not 6 each? Maybe there'd be enough interest from other builders like me that would buy it and make it worth selling? ... here's hoping!

Last edited by Oagrintel; 02-08-2020 at 10:03 AM.
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