Older Asus P5E3 Deluxe -- XMS3 vs Vengeance 8GB kit

[lalittle]

I have an older motherboard -- Asus P5E3 Deluxe with Q9650 -- that I would like to upgrade 8GB in order to get just a bit more life out of the system. The problem is that the "recommended" sticks that I get via the Corsair ram configurator are out of stock everywhere. Corsair tech support offered me two alternatives; the XMS3 CMX8GX3M4A1333C9, and the Vengeance CMZ8GX3M4X1600C9. It was suggested to me by the Corsair rep that the higher end Vengeance kit -- the CMZ8GX3M4X1600C9 -- had better components, and would therefore have a better chance of running all four sticks at higher speeds, including 1333, which would be an underclock for this kit. I was also told that it will most likely run stable at 1600, which the motherboard supports (it actually supports 1800 as well.)

 

Given that there was only a negligible difference in price, I went ahead and ordered the CMZ8GX3M4X1600C9 Vengeance kit since there did not seem to be any downside to using this instead of the XMS3 kit. Since then, however, I saw a post from the Ram Guy that said "Vengeance Modules are made for and tested on Intel Sandy Bridge chipsets, I would suggest using one of the modules listed for your MB."

 

I therefore wanted to ask here if the XMS3 kit would potentially offer any compatibility advantage over using the Vengeance kit. It made sense to me that the better components in the Vengeance kit would offer the potential for the most stability even on my older motherboard, and that it would offer better potential when running 1333 compared to the XMS3 kit which some people suggested may need to be underclocked slightly in order to run stably. I'm wondering, however, if there are other considerations that would make the XMS3 kit a better bet.

 

Is there actually a potential disadvantage of using the Vengeance CMZ8GX3M4X1600C9 kit on this motherboard -- i.e. are there aspects of the Vengeance kit that would possibly be "less compatible" with my older motherboard (X38 chipset)? Or, would the newer components and tighter specs of the Vengeance kit offer a higher chance of compatibility and stability?

 

Thanks for any feedback,

 

Larry

[lalittle]

I'm seeing a lot of references to memory density being a consideration as well, but I'm totally unclear what the limitation is of the x38 chipset vs the Q9650 cpu vs the motherboard itself (Asus P5E3 Deluxe WiFi.) In other words, I'm unclear what the density of any give sticks are, and on top of this I'm not clear what the limitation of the system is, or which part of the system dictates the limitation.

 

I'm also still not sure how the issue would manifest if there WAS a problem with RAM density. Would it be unstable, or would it not run at all? How obvious would it be if the density was too high?

 

Any assistance here would be appreciated. I just want to get the system to 8GB, and I'd like to stay at 1333 if at all possible.

 

On a side note, the RAM configurator gives me the part number CMX8GX3M4B1333C9 as being compatible with my motherboard, but I can only find CMX8GX3M4A1333C9 -- the only difference is the "B" vs the "A" before the "1333" (with the "B" version being the one the configurator gives me.) What is the difference, and would the "A" version still work (if, of course, the Vengeance CMZ8GX3M4X1600C9 would not work.)

 

Thanks,

 

Larry

[peanutz94]

I'm seeing a lot of references to memory density being a consideration as well, but I'm totally unclear what the limitation is of the x38 chipset vs the Q9650 cpu vs the motherboard itself (Asus P5E3 Deluxe WiFi.) In other words, I'm unclear what the density of any give sticks are, and on top of this I'm not clear what the limitation of the system is, or which part of the system dictates the limitation.

Correct, and that limitation is memory modules that are constructed with no larger than 256mb chips. Unfortunately most if not all of Corsairs current kits are made with the larger 512MB chips making them incompatible with your MB.

 

I'm also still not sure how the issue would manifest if there WAS a problem with RAM density. Would it be unstable, or would it not run at all? How obvious would it be if the density was too high?

I'm most cases they wont even boot up. Some will , but would be highly unstable.

 

Given that there was only a negligible difference in price, I went ahead and ordered the CMZ8GX3M4X1600C9 Vengeance kit since there did not seem to be any downside to using this instead of the XMS3 kit. Since then, however, I saw a post from the Ram Guy that said "Vengeance Modules are made for and tested on Intel Sandy Bridge chipsets, I would suggest using one of the modules listed for your MB."

Correct, However just because it was designed and tested on a Sandybridge system doesn't mean it won't be compatible or that it won't work , just that it was not specifically tested on older systems. Just about all of Corsairs memory would be compatible with Intel and AMD procs from the first gen I-7's on up to current. When you see "Compatibilty lists, or QVL's those are just a list of modules that were tested at the time of production, but that in no way means that other kits are not just as compatible.

 

Take the 1600mhz kit you have listed for ex. You can still use them even though it's not a speed supported by your CPU or MB, they will just downclock to 1333mhz in your case. You cant run the memory faster than the front side buss unless you overclock.

 

I'm really sorry to say this, but the kit you ordered is more than likely not going to work. This would be true for the XMS3 modules as well any current kit in production. At this point all you can do is try them (as long as your reseller has a good return policy) or return them.

[lalittle]

The Corsair configurator still lists the CMX8GX3M4B1333C9 as being compatible with my motherboard. Does this mean that it's still made with the lower density chips, or is it a mistake -- i.e. do newer "versions" of these modules still use the higher density chips. (the same question goes for the CMP8GX3M4A1333C9 modules that the configurator lists.) Also, what is the difference between the "A" version CMX8GX3M4A1333C9 (which I can still find) and the "B" version CMX8GX3M4B1333C9 (which the configurator gives me.) The memory part number breakdown does not list any meaning for this letter position, so I have no idea what the difference is, or if there is any difference.

 

I guess the critical question would be if the CMX8GX3M4A1333C9 ("A" version) modules use low enough density chips. If these would work with the P5E3 Deluxe, that would solve my problem. Note that these are out of stock on the Corsair website, but I can still find them other places, so they "could" be older stock.

 

On a related note, is it the chipset that determines how dense the chips can be, or can some x38 motherboards take denser memory than others? If it IS the chipset, where is the actual information about what density chips the x38 can utilize? I found posts on these forums claiming that both 128 and 256 chips are the highest that this chipset can go. I also searched the intel site, but couldn't find an answer to this.

 

Thanks again for the help,

 

Larry

[peanutz94]

The Corsair configurator still lists the CMX8GX3M4B1333C9 as being compatible with my motherboard. Does this mean that it's still made with the lower density chips, or is it a mistake -- i.e. do newer "versions" of these modules still use the higher density chips. (the same question goes for the CMP8GX3M4A1333C9 modules that the configurator lists.) Also, what is the difference between the "A" version CMX8GX3M4A1333C9 (which I can still find) and the "B" version CMX8GX3M4B1333C9 (which the configurator gives me.) The memory part number breakdown does not list any meaning for this letter position, so I have no idea what the difference is, or if there is any difference.

 

It would all depend on the version number for any of those kits. Unfortunately, there is a lot of the older MB's that are listed in the configurator that have not been changed to reflect some of the new modules.

 

You can check a kit memory IC size using the DDR3 inquery list located in the left side bar.

 

On a related note, is it the chipset that determines how dense the chips can be, or can some x38 motherboards take denser memory than others? If it IS the chipset, where is the actual information about what density chips the x38 can utilize? I found posts on these forums claiming that both 128 and 256 chips are the highest that this chipset can go. I also searched the intel site, but couldn't find an answer to this.

It's the chipset that is the determining factor and that information can be found in the Intel White papers for that chipset. Yes both 128 and 256 chips are supported, 256 being the largest you can use. The problem is that Corsair is using 512mb chips.

[lalittle]

Thanks for the followup.

 

It would all depend on the version number for any of those kits. Unfortunately, there is a lot of the older MB's that are listed in the configurator that have not been changed to reflect some of the new modules.

 

You can check a kit memory IC size using the DDR3 inquery list located in the left side bar.

 

I'll check the rev. number on the module kit and compare it against the chart as soon as the kit arrives. According to Corsair, these modules were manufactured with both 256M and 512M IC's, so it could go either way. Hopefully I'll get a 256 version.

 

It's the chipset that is the determining factor and that information can be found in the Intel White papers for that chipset. Yes both 128 and 256 chips are supported, 256 being the largest you can use. The problem is that Corsair is using 512mb chips.

 

Are you certain about 256M x 8 being the limit? I found two intel white papers called "Intel® X38 Express Chipset Memory Technology and Configuration Guide" and "Intel® X38 Express Chipset." In both documents, 128M x 8 is the highest density that is referred to. There are no statements about an actual "limit," but there is no mention of "256M x 8" in either document at all. This could be due to the fact that no 256M x 8 modules existed at the time, but the bottom line is that it's difficult to tell what the real story is.

 

What makes things even more confusing is that some Ram Guy posts in these forums state 128Mx8 as the limit for the x38 chipset, while others state 256Mx8. This makes it tough to figure out what the real limit is.

 

Thanks again,

 

Larry

[peanutz94]

Are you certain about 256M x 8 being the limit?

Yup positive. Been through this scenario a few dozen times at least!;):

[lalittle]

Yup positive. Been through this scenario a few dozen times at least!;):

 

Okay -- I just wanted to make sure that it wasn't 128M x 8, which some posts here state. I can't find any 128M x 8 modules, but I can still find 256M x 8 modules, so I should be able to resolve this issue and get the system up to 8GB.

 

Just out of curiosity, have you dealt with this with the Asus P5E3 Deluxe? Also, did you have any issues running a set of 4 modules at 1333, or did you have to drop the speed?

 

Thanks again,

 

Larry

[peanutz94]

I can't find any 128M x 8 modules, but I can still find 256M x 8 modules, so I should be able to resolve this issue and get the system up to 8GB.

Yeah, the 128's are getting pretty rare. So are the 256's actually. Most if not all of the major memory manufacturers have moved on to the larger dies

 

But No, I have not owned that specific board. Even with 4 up you might still get them to run at 133mhz. Thats really one of those things that results will vary from user to user.

[peanutz94]

He Lalittle, i just wanted to post the contents of a PM i have from RamGuy concerning the IC's and production. Just as a follow up if not for anything else. :)

 

http://forum.corsair.com/v3/private.php?do=showpm&pmid=32178

[lalittle]

He Lalittle, i just wanted to post the contents of a PM i have from RamGuy concerning the IC's and production. Just as a follow up if not for anything else. :)

 

http://forum.corsair.com/v3/private.php?do=showpm&pmid=32178

 

Thanks for the link, but it's not working for some reason. When I click it I get a message saying "Invalid Private Message specified." I would be very curious to read what it said -- could you possibly check the link, or post the contents here?

 

On a related note, I ended up getting an 8GB set of XMS3 modules (4 2GB sticks.) Luckily, they were 256Mx8 (not 512) so they work with the Asus P5E3 Deluxe's x38 chipset. They started up with the correct settings by default (1.5V, 1333), and they've been working for a few days now without any issues. Thankfully, this motherboard appears to be well made and is able to run all 4 sticks at full speed without any issues. I also did 3 passes with memtest86 without errors, so I'm going to call them "working."

 

Thanks again for your help, and for any further information you heard about the IC's, which I'd still be interesting in.

 

Larry

[peanutz94]

Oh Fudge Larry!

Here 's the contents of that PM

 

Yes it is no problem to re-post that; it is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the tooth ;-)

 

We still use 256 X 8 IC's for some of the parts above DDR1333 when available but most of the production for DDR3-1333 and higher speeds will be all 512M X 8 IC's

However any module in production that is DD3-1066 and below will be 256M x 8 IC's

Thanks

John K

 

Thank you for clearing that up. Is this okay to repost? I originally did a couple of hours ago, but took it down. I thought I had better get your permission first just in case. .

 

Thanks again!

Pat

 

Hey John,

Just a quick question so I understand more. I know it's been stated that all of Corsairs modules being made to day would be made from 512mb IC's. But this post here suggests that there are kits out there that are made from the 256mb IC. Or is the DDR inquery incorrect or out of date?

 

Thanks

Pat

 

Sorry about the link.

Super glad to hear you lucked out and got the version that will work with that board. Let us know if you have any more questions.