Overprovisioning issue in toolbox

[edzar]

I downloaded the toolbox and on the Overprovision section i get a message

 

"one of the volumes on this device could not be found in the system device list"

 

http://i.tinyuploads.com/jKXH7Y.png

[Incriminated]

Where is D:\ ?

 

Did you partitionised your SDD into multiple volumes?

[edzar]

Where is D:\ ?

 

Did you partitionised your SDD into multiple volumes?

 

 

I do not have a "D" drive. this is what i got: And now that i look at it it does not seem right ? my storage drives "E" says it is also a "primary partition" ?

 

http://i.tinyuploads.com/2CGxcE.png

[Incriminated]

I dont know why, but I don NOT have a "System reserved" drive, instead my C:\ Partition is System and Active too.

[deees]

I get the same error. My SSD is partitioned in 2 OS partitions with approximately half the drive unallocated.

 

http://imageshack.us/a/img259/3121/toolkitop.jpg

 

So I wonder: Is Over Provisioned space the same as unallocated space and the utility just a tool to shrink paritions?

Or, didn't the developer anticipate that some users might not allocate all the the diskspace on the SSD?

[edzar]

I am wondering if the "volume that cannot be found" is the system reserved space?

 

And if so could a drive letter be given to it which would allow for Overprovisioning? and then remove the drive letter afterwards?

[mik101]

I get the same error. My SSD is partitioned in 2 OS partitions with approximately half the drive unallocated.

 

http://imageshack.us/a/img259/3121/toolkitop.jpg

 

So I wonder: Is Over Provisioned space the same as unallocated space and the utility just a tool to shrink paritions?

Or, didn't the developer anticipate that some users might not allocate all the the diskspace on the SSD?

 

That's exactly what it is. Anand usually just resizes the partition then creates a partition in the free space, formats it (to force it to TRIM) and then deletes that partition. The unallocated space you are left with would be the overprovisioning. The toolbox is likely doing essentially the same thing. FYI your GTX is already overprovisioned by about 16GB from the factory. (256GB NAND w/ 240GB usable before formatting). Compare this with drives that have all of their nand available before formatting ie 128gb/256gb. The LAMD controller is very consistent and it's unlikely that it will help much with our drives (I have a 120GB GTX).

[Incriminated]

BTW did noone tell you that dividing a SSD into different Partitions usually affects write-performance negatively?

 

@deees: Any space free left on J:\ from your SSD isnt available for maintaining performance on C:\

 

or in other words, if you want to write something onto C:\ , the controler takes that data and try write it to the chips. The more chips available, the more parrallel writes occur, but if +2/3 is dedicated to another partition, it can only write down to the cells which are dedicated to C:\.

 

So it will write quite slower, than if you allocate all space to primary.

 

Why'd you do that at all?

 

The great windows filesystem allows you to create "folders" on C:\, i suggest you to remove J:\ and put the data into a "folder" on C:\, so your free-space is left available for maintaining C:\'s performance. ;)

[mik101]

Good catch Incriminated, I didn't notice he had two active partitions on there. I wouldn't do that.

I have two SSDs in my machine though, one for the OS + Programs and one for everything else.

[deees]

 

Why'd you do that at all?

 

 

"J:\" contains a Windows 8 OS partition, and is only ~126GB as well. I typically run 5 - 6 OS's at any one time.

 

 

So it will write quite slower, than if you allocate all space to primary.

 

 

Is this measurable?

[Incriminated]

Yes

 

http://forum.corsair.com/v2/showthread.php?t=105691

 

Dont wonder they claim it's not affecting, obviously thats wrong.

 

See the chrystal disk benchmarks, he posted. Using 60GB instead of all 120GB decreased write-rates in half. ;)

 

 

Your windows can use 120gb of 480gb what would make it cut its performance another half. Again, this is only for writes on that partition, it does not affect the read.

 

It would not affect boot-time or loading time of a game or kinda read-related, but i.e. it takes longer to install os or a game.

on that partition.

 

That's for SURE.

 

 

 

Plus i see using 11 Partitions overall (7 on a 1TB.. i mean WTH?), partly in raid-mode. I dont to start a discussion for what the hell that should be useful, or whats the sense in running multiple OSes especially up to 5-6..... probably virtual mashines would be much cleverer if there's a real actual need for such infrastructure.

 

I reply again to this, because you seem to have the motherboards-sata controller in RAID-mode, not in AHCI.

 

Did you tried setting up AHCI and try run the toolbox for over-provisioning again?

 

Please provide a screenshot from the "drive information" tab for the SSD.

 

I never encountered any case where more than one partition per drive is neccessary, except if you have only 1 disk and need a backup-partition to be able to format the primary. Any other further splitting into partitions to "sort" content i.e. Games, Movies etc. is strictly not recommended.

 

Bad thing is: splitting HDDs into many partitions DOES affect read-performance.

 

When using multiple folders on one partition the data is usually written in continguous (thats why defragmentation maintains performance) way, but when splitting into partitions, the space is reserved. For any read/write requests on different partitions on the same drive the Head has to jump to the partitions location and read that table of content, what slows down read-access-time drastically. Thus when moving data on the same drive from partition to partition the drive has to do a real copy, meaning read the data, jump to the different partition and write it all again, then mark the old for deleted, like having different drives. When using the same partition with just sub-folder it only marks the new path to the data in the table of content, what is a "instant" move.

 

If you have applications that constantly write data on all of the 7 partitions on the HDD the same time that drives throughput is nearly eliminated/broke down!

 

Probably the toolbox cant handle such amount of partitions errorless.

 

You can try to unplug all drives except the SSD, setup BIOS to AHCI, run toolbox again, try over-provisioning.

 

The riddle of the "system reserved"-drive.

 

Only found german-source:

http://www.wintotal.de/das-raetsel-der-100-mbyte-partition-von-windows-7/

 

When installing windows 7, the setup process creates it by default. It is used for boot-loader, bitlocker-features and is used by windows-imaging service.

 

However i remebered i removed that on my Win7 installation and manually allocated all space for primary. I do not use windows-recovery/imaging or bitlocker, so i not run into issues.

 

The only way to re-move it from a running system would be to delete that partition and re-size the primary partition, what is STRICTLY not recommended.

 

Beware that in my case windows created bootloader hidden folder directly on C:\, you have to copy that data from that system reserved partition to C:\ and tell windows how to use that on your own, if you try, what is highly complicated and easiely brake your system.

 

In any case the Corsair Toolbox should be able to find, recognize and handle that default Win7 system-partition in part of the over-provisioning process.

 

So this issue is still unresolved.

 

@edzar: Can you try unplugging all devices except the SSD, then double check Sata mode is set to AHCI, re-run Corsair Toolbox over-provisioning and in case of fail provide screenshot of drive information" tab of the toolbox?

 

PS: If you run benchmarks like crystal disk , DO NOT, i repeat DO NOT use the default test size i.e. 1000MB, because it does 4 tests each 5 times, what equals 20GB-writes in one run, decreasing your drives lifetime/sustainability probably reasonable. 50MB or 100MB what equals 1GB or 2GB-writes is enough to measure performance.

[edzar]

 

@edzar: Can you try unplugging all devices except the SSD, then double check Sata mode is set to AHCI, re-run Corsair Toolbox over-provisioning and in case of fail provide screenshot of drive information" tab of the toolbox?

 

Thanks for the help Incriminated,

 

I disconnected my 2 HDD's and it allowed me to Overprovision the SSD. I Providioned 60GB.

 

I reconnected my 2 HDD's again and now it shows my 240GB SSD as ~180GB.

 

But does not acknowledge any overprovisioning.

 

I should be technically good/overprovisioned right?

 

http://i.tinyuploads.com/pU7Dp4.png

[Incriminated]

Nice one. Im not sure if this is ok now, but according to what mik101 said it would be ok, as long as you not re-allocate the unallocated space, since the hole over-provisioning is nohing different than force TRIM on a seperated partition and then delete it, that way the controller has this space reserved for maintainance.

 

PS: So the problem is kinda likely not the SSD or the toolbox, but high likely a defect partition table on one of your HDDs. Sry to say that :D One other reason could be your Drive F:\ carrying a "logical drive", what is very strange, since you need logical drives only to get rid off the limit of the amount of maximum creatable "primary partitions". The Toolbox simply might expect only "primary partitions" as single partitions. You can change that.

[edzar]

Nice one. Im not sure if this is ok now, but according to what mik101 said it would be ok, as long as you not re-allocate the unallocated space, since the hole over-provisioning is nohing different than force TRIM on a seperated partition and then delete it, that way the controller has this space reserved for maintainance.

 

PS: So the problem is kinda likely not the SSD or the toolbox, but high likely a defect partition table on one of your HDDs. Sry to say that :D

 

 

It was something to do with my sata2 HDD. i dont use it to much so i disconnected it.

 

Now however this is what I have in toolbox and it does not make sense to me:

http://i.tinyuploads.com/ZO1s4q.png

 

http://i.tinyuploads.com/X3jrrY.png

 

does it suggest i overprovision another 6gb? should I?

[Incriminated]

NO, you are on the over-provisioning tab, so selected over-provisioning 6gb means if you click start it removes the 60gb and gives you only 6gb..... :roll:

 

All is fine, it suggest 6GB at all. 60Gb is quite a lot, dont think you will benefit form that much significantly than losing 60gb hurts :D

 

Remember that it could cut your sequential-write-rates too, because it has less chips available for continguous writes, so i cannot recommend you going that high

 

When i remember it right, your SSD has in-build 16GB overprovisioning, so i personally would recommend you running no more than extra 8GB, what will give you total 24GB (10%).

 

I choose extra 4GB for my Force 3, (has in-built 8GB-o.p.), for a total 10% too.

 

Oh BTW: Right click the C:\-partition in disk-mgr and choose "Mark as active partition". (just to mention it)

 

PS: Try to change F:\ from logical drive to primary partition, that should fix your issues with it plugged in and the toolbox recognizing disks.

[deees]

Yes

 

http://forum.corsair.com/v2/showthread.php?t=105691

 

Dont wonder they claim it's not affecting, obviously thats wrong.

 

See the chrystal disk benchmarks, he posted. Using 60GB instead of all 120GB decreased write-rates in half. ;)

 

 

Your windows can use 120gb of 480gb what would make it cut its performance another half. Again, this is only for writes on that partition, it does not affect the read.

 

It would not affect boot-time or loading time of a game or kinda read-related, but i.e. it takes longer to install os or a game.

on that partition.

 

That's for SURE.

 

 

 

 

While I'm more familiar with ATTO than Crystal Disk, (and I'm aware of the concern with the Sandforce controllers), I'm not seeing a significant different in read/write performance on a partitioned drive with either tool.

 

http://imageshack.us/a/img266/5391/crystaldiskmarkgtx480.jpg

 

And considering that this a "production" system with anti-virus and other bloat software, my performance is pretty typical to what I'm seeing else where.

 

 

Plus i see using 11 Partitions overall (7 on a 1TB.. i mean WTH?), partly in raid-mode. I dont to start a discussion for what the hell that should be useful, or whats the sense in running multiple OSes especially up to 5-6..... probably virtual mashines would be much cleverer if there's a real actual need for such infrastructure.

 

 

I do have a Esxi server for evaluating server configurations, but for testing PC operating systems and applications, it's easier to dual boot my PC.) I also have some graphic applications that I don't want to run on my primary/gaming OS image.

 

 

 

I reply again to this, because you seem to have the motherboards-sata controller in RAID-mode, not in AHCI.

 

 

Become I have 2 arrays, and the C600 controller only support IDE or AHCI or RAID+AHCI for all Intel SATA ports. The single SSD is in AHCI mode.

 

 

Probably the toolbox cant handle such amount of partitions errorless.

 

You can try to unplug all drives except the SSD, setup BIOS to AHCI, run toolbox again, try over-provisioning.

 

 

I'll think I'll wait until someone updates the program to support multiple drives/partitions, or just create the OP partition manually.

[edzar]

 

I choose extra 4GB for my Force 3, (has in-built 8GB-o.p.), for a total 10% too.

 

Oh BTW: Right click the C:\-partition in disk-mgr and choose "Mark as active partition". (just to mention it)

 

PS: Try to change F:\ from logical drive to primary partition, that should fix your issues with it plugged in and the toolbox recognizing disks.

 

 

Oh @#^&*@#^ Had a bit of a scare here.

 

I went ahead and reprovisioned and that went fine.

 

Then I did like you suggested and made the "C" "active"

 

then i shutdown to reconnect the "f" HDD.

 

Rebooted and..

 

Got a "Bootmgr is missing" error. got on another rig and found solution with OS disk. and am back.

 

phew.. Now turning back on carbonite for some backup action and same with that F drive for more redundant backup.

I think I will also pull out another HDD and clone my SSD to that.

 

So this is what i have now after windows repair got me back.

http://i.tinyuploads.com/0UdUHF.png

 

looks the same cept the 'C' drive is also active? and the reserved is primary and active too? time to try a reboot.

 

before:

http://www.tinyuploads.com/images/X3jrrY.png

[Incriminated]

Im really sry for any inconvienience caused.

 

That tip really wasn't good. Im sry.

 

I didnt meant to give you a data-loss.

 

Primary partition is just the partition-type. The first partition on any device is usually primary-partion, so thats ok.

 

Anyhow i re-checked some screenshots of the default flags of C:\ in disk-mgr when having a "system reserved".

 

The problem is that by doing that (setting C:\ active and boot) it seems to have removed active and boot from system reserved.

 

In your configuration system reserved should be active and boot, because thats where the bootloader is located.

 

So if you re-do the change by just making system reserved active again it should boot up as normal.

 

Hope it's not to late. :(

 

@deees: probably some drives/controllers/firmware are obviously able to use free-space from different partitions to write data, could be about durawrite-functionality. This going to work, as long as the controller reassignes cells properly between the partitions. Otherwise having write rates of 500mb/s on only 28GB free-space left would be quite odd. If drive's controller is able to maintain TRIM free-space request from all partitions together and making the cells available for any partitions contingent, that problem would be eliminated.

 

Plus whatever many cells are available to write down at a time, the controller has a maximum. If that is hitten, no bigger partition would help, ever.

So obviously on modern drives with fast chips/controllers and highly intelligent software, you would not even be able to measure a decrease in write.

 

I cant reproduce performance decrease in write-rates too, because when i shrink partition, and check toolbox: it shows over-provisioning active for any unallocated space.

 

Would be interesting to know if you get the same good results on older firmware, just to get a mind of what they changed. Mainting of cell-provisioning is very important for such performance-thoughts, and i dont think it's the right place to go on further with that.

 

Doesn't mean it's not intentionally true.

 

YOu can try in win-disk-mgr to shrink the partition with unallocated space left of the over-provisiong of your likeless, create a partition on that, execute TRIM, remove the additional partition, so it's back to unallocated and check in toolbox if over-provisioning is detected successful. I dont even have to create, TRIM and remove a partition, seems like it's impossible to have unallocated space the controller wont ever touch (no over-provisiong) with 5.05.

[edzar]

Im really sry for any inconvienience caused.

 

That tip really wasn't good. Im sry.

 

I didnt meant to give you a data-loss.

 

Primary partition is just the partition-type. The first partition on any device is usually primary-partion, so thats ok.

 

Anyhow i re-checked some screenshots of the default flags of C:\ in disk-mgr when having a "system reserved".

 

The problem is that by doing that (setting C:\ active and boot) it seems to have removed active and boot from system reserved.

 

In your configuration system reserved should be active and boot, because thats where the bootloader is located.

 

So if you re-do the change by just making system reserved active again it should boot up as normal.

 

Hope it's not to late. :(

 

 

no worries. I am asking for it when i continue to tweak everything. I just cant stop!

 

Whatever the repair disk did, it is working fine. But of course since it is not broken i need to keep tweaking it.! I was considering losing the reserved drive as per these instructions. But i have found nothing that says it will lead to any performance gains whatsover. I did remove the drive letter though so it does not show up with my other drives as any kind of option. Thanks again for your help.

 

 

http://i.tinyuploads.com/Ooro6t.png