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Fans Don't Stop Completely - 0 RPM - Need VOLTAGE CONTROL Mode


EDB

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I bought the Corsair link because my Motherboard was not able to reduce fans to 0 RPM when temps/usage are low.

 

CorsairLink SAYS it can reduce to 0RPM, but it doesn't. There is always some voltage on the fans, enough to make them spin slowly or just sit there jittering back and forth. In some cases the fans even spin back up to a high RPM.

 

NEED #1) I need straight up VOLTAGE CONTROL for my fans so I can set them to 0volts - So under 'MODE' you need an option for CUSTOM VOLTAGE where I can set Voltages against the 5 temp points, instead of setting RPMs.

 

I also have small 2-wire fans that are connected to the CorairCoolingNode but are not recognized, probably becasue there is no 3rd wire for feedback. These are for my northbridge and southbridge heatsinks. I need to be able to turn these on/off. Again voltage control would be the way to go here. Trouble is I can't even see them in the CorsairLink software.

 

NEED #2) I need the CorsiarCoolingNode to SHOW ALL 5 FAN SLOTS, even if it thinks there is no fan attached, so I can turn them on and off. And again, here I need the CUSTOM VOLTAGE mode mentioned above, so that I can set Voltages against the 5 temp points, instead of setting RPMs.

 

These are VERY reasonable requests to give us control over our fans. Also, from reading through the forums here, I see that other have already asked for VOLTAGE CONTROL, so I'm not sure why this hasn't been implemented yet.

 

These would be very easy fixes in your program and would solve a LOT of problems for everyone.

 

Plesae let me know if this is something you will be able to add to the software ASAP. If not, I will need to send this unit back, which would be very sad since it would be the end of my dream of an "overclocked during the day, silent at night" pc. And isn't that what Fan Control is all about?!

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link isnt designed to do these things and only corsair knows if/when this will happen in the future

ive not seen where its stated rpm can be turned off

fans work via pwm not voltage

what your asking is a re-design of the full platform,thats not likely going to happen

you can easily make day/night profiles

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I have to disagree with you on this. Link IS designed to do this, it's just not working properly. Under both 'Fixed RPM' and 'Custom' modes you can set the fan RPM to 0. The fact that the fans continue to rotate, jitter or make noise is absolutely a design flaw.

 

I'm completely ok with setting PWM to 0. I have not idea why it stops at 40% in the 'PWM' mode.

 

Perhaps the PWM minimum when setting a 'Fixed RPM' or 'Custom' mode is currently 1/256 and that could be causing the issue. If so, setting it 0/256 could solve the problem and would be a very easy fix for Corsair. (I'm guessing at the 8-bit PWM, but you get the point.)

 

Day/night profiles are great, but we need to be able to stop the fans and get them silent at night.

 

So, thanks for the feedback, I'll modify these very straigtforward requirements to be:

 

#1) True 0/XXX PWM so the fans stop moving/jittering

 

#2) A CUSTOM PWM mode - just copy the CUSTOM mode but allow us to select PWM ratios instead of RPMs.

 

#3) A checkbox option to show all 5 fan slots, even if the CorairCoolingNode doesn't think there are fans attached.

 

As a programmer (microcontrollers included), I can envision that these would all be pretty quick additions.

 

This should also solve the issues with various fan-types not working.

 

Let's let Corsair chime in on this one, as I can see from the forums that others have had similar issues/requests.

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i have to disagree on stopping the fans ,even tho the dashboard says zero,the fans cant be fully stopped and if it were possible to turn them off it renders them useless if their needed.i have 15 stock fans in 2 builds that are within a couple feet of me,at 600 rpm their virtually inaudable but will speed up if needed ,
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I would tend to agree it is a design flaw. The sabertooth Z77 can control PWM fans and allows them to be completely turned off below certain temperatures. Completely turning them off doesn't render them useless if needed, they would turn back on automatically when the temperatures reach a defined setting. At least this is how it is done with the Sabertooth Z77 board. I have 2 Silverstone FHP-141 fans connected directly to the fan headers and are set to be off below 30C (measured via a combination of the CPU/VCORE/VCCIO+VCCSA, and the Mobo/PCH). As soon as temps go above 30C they spin up to ~40% and increase on a curve that is predefined.
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WOW edb, I understand you frustration as I and others would like to have the corsair link work exactly the way we want it to. But,, give them a break..I hear a lot of NEED, not constructive suggestions in your post. I bought a link when it first came out and have observed huge efforts made by the support and engineering folks to respond to us in a professional and positive manner. They are working to resolve as many requests as possible. So, maybe take a breather from the rant and collaborate with corsair instead of coming across like you are an expert.
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A fan not spinning is the same to the electronics as no fan. These fans must always spin or their control circuits throw a wobbler. I can get my H80i fans down to 240rpm, any slower and the pump unit loses the tach signal and resets, spinning the fans up full again.
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A fan not spinning is the same to the electronics as no fan. These fans must always spin or their control circuits throw a wobbler. I can get my H80i fans down to 240rpm, any slower and the pump unit loses the tach signal and resets, spinning the fans up full again.

 

 

Can you elaborate a little more? Because from what I have personally seen it is not a problem at all to get pwm fans to shut completely off and then start again at a predefined rpm (~40%) without having them spin up to max RPM. It doesn't appear that EDB is talking about the closed loop coolers.

 

I hear a lot of NEED, not constructive suggestions in your post. I bought a link when it first came out and have observed huge efforts made by the support and engineering folks to respond to us in a professional and positive manner.

 

 

I have to disagree with you on this. Link IS designed to do this, it's just not working properly. Under both 'Fixed RPM' and 'Custom' modes you can set the fan RPM to 0. The fact that the fans continue to rotate, jitter or make noise is absolutely a design flaw.

 

I'm completely ok with setting PWM to 0. I have not idea why it stops at 40% in the 'PWM' mode.

 

Perhaps the PWM minimum when setting a 'Fixed RPM' is currently 1/256 and that could be causing the issue. If so, setting it 0/256 could solve the problem and would be a very easy fix for Corsair. (I'm guessing at the 8-bit PWM, but you get the point.)

 

Day/night profiles are great, but we need to be able to stop the fans and get them silent at night.

 

So, thanks for the feedback, I'll modify these very straigtforward requirements to be:

 

#1) True 0/XXX PWM so the fans stop moving/jittering

 

#2) A CUSTOM PWM mode - just copy the CUSTOM mode but allow us to select PWM ratios instead of RPMs.

 

#3) A checkbox option to show all 5 fan slots, even if the CorairCoolingNode doesn't think there are fans attached.

 

As a programmer (microcontrollers included), I can envision that these would all be pretty quick additions.

 

 

Looks like EDB did make some constructive suggestions. Choosing to ignore them doesn't mean they don't exist.

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To bring fans to 0rpm when a computer is in use is like driving your car into a pole, 40% is about the slowest you can go without making the fan unstable, with that I mean the inner workings. The magnets have to work more to keep the rotation going "newtons law: a body in motion tends to stay in motion" once in rotation you need less energy. OTHERWISE just put computer in sleep mode and fans will stop.

Here this might explain it better:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/259541-29-what-slowest-speed

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So, thanks for the feedback, I'll modify these very straigtforward requirements to be:

 

#1) True 0/XXX PWM so the fans stop moving/jittering

 

#2) A CUSTOM PWM mode - just copy the CUSTOM mode but allow us to select PWM ratios instead of RPMs.

 

#3) A checkbox option to show all 5 fan slots, even if the CorairCoolingNode doesn't think there are fans attached.

As a programmer (microcontrollers included), I can envision that these would all be pretty quick additions.

 

This should also solve the issues with various fan-types not working.Let's let Corsair chime in on this one, as I can see from the forums that others have had similar issues/requests.

 

One would think:roll:

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"most" fans are near silent at 300-400 rpm its when they spool up to 2000+ is when you get a lot of noise. One should NEVER shut down fans because there are things you might no be able to monitor like ram, north/south bridge etc that still can benefit from some air flow. Every fan has a min rpm speed most are 300-400 anything below that would just shut them down and strain your voltage supply. I may be wrong but I have NEVER seen a computer fan run lets say at 100 RPM or 50. :idea: PWM is similar to regular fans, it just uses short bursts of full energy to control speed, unlike the regular ones that just decrease amperage through a variable resistor, but the inner workings are still mostly the same.
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Happy New Year and Thanks everyone for your support on this. I appreciate everyone's thoughts.

 

t53186... I do apologize, I didn't mean to come across like an expert. I was just trying to say I envision these changes shouldn't be that crazy. So I stepped it up and 'put my money where my mouth is' (literally, since I voided my warranty and any idea of an RMA), and I cracked open a CoolingNode to see what's inside. There is indeed a 16V microcontroller (running at 12V) and that's all. If it had been a proprietary fan-controller chip, then perhaps it might not offer 0/XXX PWM control. But I checked the Data Sheets for the microcontroller (Freescale Semiconductor) and we're all good here. They could definitely set the PWM down to 0, or turn the output off completely, when the fan is set to 0RPM.

 

wytnyt... Are you saying I'm a controlling person for wanting to turn off fans? What a funny statement. I understand you're ok with a certain level of noise but that doesn't mean everyone is. I'm running an H100 with four AFB1212SHE. At the '0 RPM' speed they click while jittering. I have 10 fans in my case - at '40%' speed they make enough noise that I would like to turn them off at night. That's why I bought a fan controller.

 

 

I believe the question here is whether stopping fans should be considered 'Core Functionality' for a fan controller. For some people it's a no-brainer, for others it's crazy.

 

 

To bring fans to 0rpm when a computer is in use is like driving your car into a pole

 

robandcathy, You're going to feint when you hear this one. I have two computers in our bedroom, one is an i3 media center with no fans at all, the other is this overclocked i7 which currently has all 10 fans unplugged. I'll give the specs on both in a little bit. btw, you're absolutely right that you can't run a fan at 50-100RPM, but 0RPM is something different.

 

 

Stopping some fans on a PC is a big deal for Media Center setups, theater/audio rooms, bedrooms, WAF issues, the 10-20% of americans with tinnitus, etc.

 

Corsair understands this. The very first product listed on Corsair.com right now is the AX1200i, which has the following Quote: "Super-high efficiency has another benefit: Silence. The thermally-controlled fan doesn't even spin at low loads. It's ideal if you're building a quiet PC or you just want to reduce the amount of ambient noise in your life." I have a Seasonic SS-400FL, an ePower EP-450P5-L1, and a Magnum500. I'm considering buying the AX1200i, if someone can confirm that it does not spin up under 360 Watts. It appears that way from the AX1200i fan profile, but they never say the actual wattage. 95% of the time my i7 overclock is well under 300watts.

 

For my i7, I am talking about stopping all of the fans completely. But there are other systems in our office, and we have the kids computers in the family room where the GPs sleep when they come over. I won't be retrofitting all of them with Links, but for some of them I would want a single case fan on very low with everything else off until needed. I think that's a pretty normal situation for non-overclockers who are considering the Link.

 

I'll make another post in a little bit with my system specs. Point is, Corsair gets it - In Link you can set fans to 0RPM, and the AX1200i stops its fan completely. They just need to fix it so there's no voltage/PWM going to the fans when they're set to 0RPM.

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wytnyt... Are you saying I'm a controlling person for wanting to turn off fans?

 

no i just dont understand the need to turn off fans,especially when their inaudible at low r's.do you not know in order for link to control fans from a zero state they need to full spin up and then get regulated?

since your so adamant on low noise,wouldnt it be better run them in a low noise level and spool up gradually if needed rather than a full spool from a zero state when needed?

 

i think perhaps you arent considering the whole aspect of the cooling system,how did you manage things before hydro cooling came about when case fans werent controllable and cpu fans HAD to run,,

things are much better now

another factor to consider is fans lifespan is reduced from repeated starts rather than steady on times

 

 

 

I'm running an H100 with four AFB1212SHE. At the '0 RPM' speed they click while jittering. .

the fan probably isnt designed to spin that low

take a engine in a car that idles at 800 rpm and reduce it to 400 rpm and itll feel like a thrashing machine

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Here's a little bit about the two systems in the bedroom:

 

Media Center PC - completely Fanless:

i3 2120, no overclock

NoFan 95 CR-95C, side panel open

Seasonic SS-400FL

Gyration Media Center remote

 

This one is just for the TV. It has a small SSD and no local storage. It's been up and running for 8 months and rebooted maybe 5 times total. I would be ok with temps upwards of 80-90, but they never even break 60. I use it with a Gyration Media Center remote which deserves a kudos - I wish they still made these!

 

 

i7 Overclock - also a Silent PC:

i7 3770k @ 4.8/4.7, delidded with H100 directly on the silicon

H100 is outside the case with 4x AFB1212SHE in push/pull

ePower EP-450P5-L1, considering AX1200i

ASRock Z77 Extreme6

32GB of Ripjaws 1600 @ 1907

AFB1212 Case fan, 225mm side fan, memory fans, 1u fans on NB/SB, etc.

Corsair Link, currently only used to read temps

 

This build is in progress. It is Intel Burn stable and 24-hr Prime stable with all fans on. Equally as important (at least from my standpoint), Intel Burn and Prime can run single-threaded indefinitely with no fans on at all. Single-threaded Prime with no fans does not break 80 degrees and NB and SB are at reasonable temps as well. That's how my system (and really most pcs) are running most of the time - single threaded and not even close to full utilization. I've been using this system for a couple of weeks now, and under 'normal' load (IE/VPN/RDP/YouTube/etc.) temps stay in the mid 30's with no fans connected at all. I just need Link to control the 10 fans so I can keep them off normally, but have them turn on in the rare situations when the pc is under heavy load (Photoshop/Video compression/longer compiles/games/etc.). Right now I keep all of the fans unplugged and ironically plug one of them in when we go to bed since I can't keep an eye on temps overnight.

 

The EP-450P5-L1 power supply has a fan that stays off, except under load. It really works and only turns on when running Burn or Prime, but the voltage is not very steady and I believe the fluctuations are the current limiting factor for pushing the overclock any further. (ahh, if only I had the self-control to not spend any more time pushing the overclock further.) Using the EP-450P5-L1 would require a separate fanless 12V supply to power the 3 CoolingNodes for the 5xAFB1212SHE fans. So I'm seriously considering the AX1200i, which would have enough power and stability. I know that spinning up the fans at different loads/temperatures is necessary to reduce voltage fluctuations.

 

The fans on the NB/SB are very small 2-wire 1u fans. These are not recognized by Link at all. Ideally Link would show 'unconnected' fan slots and let me control them via direct PWM entries (see requirement #3 above) just like a manual fan controller, but I would be willing to replace them with 3/4 wire fans if necessary.

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how did you manage things before hydro cooling came about when case fans werent controllable and cpu fans HAD to run,,

things are much better now

 

Before the fanless media center PC, we lived with an old Dell 2350. That system used only one case fan that was routed over a heatsink on the CPU. I eventually wired it though the wall and moved it into our closet. But it was still annoying since the case fan got louder as it aged, and I would have to remember to close the closet door. When I finally replaced that one, I went the silent PC route and moved the PC back under the TV since I didn't have HDMI wall connectors, and so we wouldn't have to go into the closet to load DVDs. I wanted to have this new i7 in the bedroom, but also have it silent as well (at least 95% of the time). It would be annoying to go back to having fans on at night after all the work/cost that was done to remove them.

 

There are of course other routes I could go here. I could remove the overclock. I could live with one or two fans running on low on the Corsair Link and just wire the others on a switch. I could use a less powerful computer. But I was really hoping that Link would be able to resolve this, since it seems to offer 0RPM. And should I really need fans on a switch if I have a $100+ fan controller?

 

Certainly in the big-picture, none of this really matters that much in life. But the Link is already wired in and I spent a lot of time getting this overclock stable.

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The CPU on the fanless Media Center is cooled by a NoFan CR-95C, with the side panel open so it can radiate heat out of the case. The top of the case has an opening so the Seasonic PS can radiate heat upwards. Not very pretty, but it's behind a cabinet. I wasn't sure how hot it gets, so I just ran prime and burn for the last hour and I just barely got in into the 60's.
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I have a Corsair AX1200i and I just have to say how great it is.

 

When gaming and even folding I've never seen the fan go on. I stay basically under its threshold before it needs to be used and the PSU stays pretty cool.

 

Only problem with noise I have is the rattling noise I get on and off from one of my fans being used on the link and most of my fans I can't really fully control but only be able to use the provided profiles Quiet/Maximum for the time being. Hopefully that will change in the future.

 

Edit: Started my PC up today to notice my profile went back to default and all my saved settings I had which took me some time to figure out and setup is gone. Looking for my profile everywhere is if it just disappeared. Very frustrating for something so basic not working after a year of R/D. SMH!

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Thanks GTX. I was looking into the AX1200i and found Corsair makes several Power Supplies that are 'fanless' at low load, and most would work fine for me. The AX1200i was overkill, but the AX860i seemed to fit perfectly.

 

And then I stumbled across the thread from VasVas and his issues with the AX860i clicking and making small fan noises every 10 seconds. Corsair's response was 'that is perfectly normal'. VasVas eventually 'solved' his problem by replacing the AX860i with an AX860.

 

I just don't have time for this, so I'm staying away from anything made by Corsair that has a fan in it. I've already spent a $100 on the Corsair Link with the same problems. I'm not going to make another mistake.

 

For my build, the EP-450P5 and a separate silent supply for the fans will have to do for now. I have some ideas on workarounds to keep the fans off until needed, since the Corsair Link 'fan controller' can't turn fans off :sigh!:. If I really care about stabilizing the voltage I could always go with dual SS-520FL and get almost the same output as the AX1200i for the same price, but with no fan worries and 0-noise at full power.

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This is still a problem for me, since the Corsair Link is not usable if it can't stop the 5 large fans on my system. Link had been able to stop the fans, but they kept clicking. Now I can't even get Link to stop the fans at all. Even if it spins them down to 0, they spin back up shortly after.

 

This is really annoying.

 

I had some time to look into today. My goal is to eventually fabricate something to go between the CoolingNode and the fans to cut off power when Link is below a certain threshold. Of course it would be better if Corsair fixed this in the software, since they could easily cut off power to the fans when we are asking for 0 RPM.

 

Here is what I have learned so far...

 

1) For 3-wire fans (which is what I'm using), the CoolingNode holds steady 12V on the Red power wire. The Black wire is used to regulate the speed. From my testing, it looks like the black wire is cycled grounded and open-circuited to regulate the power to the fans. To prove this out, I connected the red wire of my fan directly to +12V and it continued to be regulated. If I connect the Black wire of my fan to ground it is no longer regulated. My guess is they chose the black wire since a short to the case would result in the fan turning on to full.

 

2) The problem is in the Corsair Software/Firmware, not the fan itself. To prove this out, I disconnected the tach from my 3-wire fan, and then connected a tach from a different fan that was running at 1000RPM. Corsair Link now showed the 1000RPM speed for my 3-wire fan no matter what I set the RPM to, as long as I kept the RPM set above 600. If I dropped the RPM setting to below 600, Link shows the fan going down to 0, then it spins the fan up to Full. This is incorrect since the tach input was held at 1000RPM and the fan had its black wire directly to ground at the time, and was still spinning. I think Corsair Link is coded to 'FAKE' a slowdown to 0RPM when you set the RPMs below 600.

 

Someone programmed it to do this in either the Software or the Firmware. I can only guess they were trying to prevent us from frying our systems when we turn the fans completely off, but they were not accounting for systems that have 10+ fans that are not all needed. This product is targeted towards a more educated end user - people who are willing to open their computers, wire in a fan controller and fans, install software, update firmwares, and who are aware of temps, etc. To put on a 'safety feature' that prevents the fan control we are asking for is unreasonable. If Corsair is worried about the liability when people turn off all their fans, they can force us to type in something like 'I UNDERSTAND THAT TURNING OFF MY FANS COULD FRY MY SYSTEM AND I WILL NOT HOLD CORSAIR LIABLE" before allowing 0RPM. What makes no sense is allowing a 0RPM setting and then not actually spinning the fans down to 0.

 

Sorry, ranting again. Back to the solution...

 

I have a few options right now...

 

1) Corsair allowing us 0RPM fan control. This would require a change to the Software/Firmware. The previous expectations in my 2nd post hold true:

#1) True 0/XXX PWM when the RPM is set to 0. This would need to be on the BLACK wire for both 3-wire and 4-wire fans, since many 4-wire fans will hold a minimum speed when reading 0 on the PWM input. Stated simply... Cut the power when the fan is set to 0rpm.

#2) A CUSTOM PWM mode on the black wire. This would allow us to regulate 2-wire fans. Ok, I get that 2-wire fans are not 'top-of-the-list' but this mode might solve some problems for other people as well.

#3) A checkbox option to show all 5 fan slots, even if the CoolingNode doesn't think there are fans attached. This goes hand-in-hand with #2.

 

2) If Corsair is not going cut power to the fans, I guess I'll have to. Options are:

#1) Put fans on a relay that is off when CoolingNode is below a certain threshold. The problem is that the Link Software/Firmware will set the fan completely ON if it detects no input on the Tach line. So I'd have to fake an input on the tach. Blah.

#2) Microcontroller + fan on relay. Link will be set to a Custom Profile from 40% fan speed to 100% fan speed. Microcontroller will turn off relay and feed a 'fake' tach signal back to the CoolingNode when the relay is off. Pain in the neck, but I'm willing to go this route.

#3) Microcontroller directly controlling fan, faking all signals back to the CoolingLink. If I have to use a microcontroller and fake the tach signal already, I may as well just control the fan myself the same way the cooling node does. Eliminates the relay click and removes dependency on the CoolingNode's black-wire PWM. Link still has value since it will provide the temp sensors, USB interface into the computer, fun software and access to other temps, etc.

 

If I go either of the microcontroller routes, I'll burn a bunch of chips and give to anyone who is having these same issues (fans that don't stop, fans that click when stopped, etc.). I would of course prefer for Link to just cut the power when fan speed is set to 0rpm.

 

3) Hack the Cooling Node. Yes I said it. I don't plan to spend too much time on this path, but the chip inside the CoolingNode is a Freescale M9S8MP16V. I pulled an eval version of their microcontroller software down from their website. The CoolingNode firmware file seems to be a set of instructions to the Commander, then the straight memory locations and assembly to program into the CoolingNode (S123 records). Might have some checksums, etc - I only looked at it quickly. Anyhow I can see how the chip is wired in so I might be able to find the registers and tweek the code. I've only just started thinking about this path, so too premature to say if it's possible. I would of course offer the firmware to anyone who is having issues, If I don't brick my CoolingNodes. :)

 

4) Scrap it all and return the Link Commander. Write a program to read the CPU temps (there are already C# examples out there) and wire up the fans to a Measurement Computing analog interface. This is probably my best bet for guaranteed success. But it's not as elegant. I would lose the Link temp sensors on my NB, SB, memory, etc.

 

So that's where I'm at. I know it all may sound over-the-top to some, but hey, everyone on this site was crazy enough to wire in their own usb fan-controller, go through the crazy firmware update process, etc. Am I really that far off?

 

Again, ideally Corsair would please please please tell me that they'll update Link to cut the power when the fan is set to 0rpm.

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  • 1 year later...

Think about how the fans work. How would it be possible to make the fan rotate evenly exactly 1 time per minute, or even 10? You should try setting the low setting to something like 120 or 180 and see if that is quiet enough for you. I would imagine that you couldn't even tell they're running at that point.

 

I would imagine it's clicking because it's trying to push it to move with a very low voltage and it's not enough to pass the magnets properly.

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