Jump to content
Corsair Community

What is wrong with Corsair lately? 3 dead SSDs out of 3!


docholliday

Recommended Posts

For the last 10 or so years, I have used nothing but Corsair RAM in all the servers, workstations, and laptops that I own/build/service. I mean about 100 servers, about 500 wkst and laptops. As a consultant and designer, I recommend (and purchased) nothing but Corsair RAM for my customers.

 

Earlier this year, I put 16GB of RAM in a server, which started to BSOD randomnly...shove the DIMMs into a RAM validator and 2 of the 4 sticks show up as having bad blocks. Return them to the supplier and they replace it (luckily - no delay). Had a set of RAM put into a half dozen workstations and ended up with weird problems (randomn BSODs and lockups). Tested them and found a few strange ones. Changed over to Micron DIMMs in some of those boxes (same specs!) and they've been purring smoothly since.

 

Then, in the last 2 months, I have purchased 3 F60 SSDs for a set of production laptops. Fujitsu T4220s and Thinkpads. First one dies after 1 week, and gets exchanged by supplier. Second one dies about 1 month after install. Exchanged by supplier. Then, about a week ago, the third one dies but outside of the time period the supplier will do direct exchange. And, to be sure, I ordered from different suppliers to be sure it wasn't a "bad batch".

 

All three drives exhibited the same problem - working fine until the unit was shutdown. When the user went to restart the unit later, no BIOS detect. No detection on about a dozen other varied boxes, from servers to wksts to other laptops. About every controller that you can imagine from Intel to Adaptec to ATTO.

 

So now, I'm going to have to RMA - and have a useless laptop until it gets back (did I mention that these are PRODUCTION units?). The worse part - it's my personal unit, which I use on a daily basis.

 

My two other laptops have INtels, which have worked flawlessly, been dropped and frozen, heated and humidified day after day. It's one thing to have a few failures, completely understandable. I know that these aren't expected to be as good and reliable as the Stec Mach16's we sometimes use. But 3 out of 3? That is ridiculous! And all in under 60 days!

 

I have since started being very weary of Corsair quality. We've just deployed another dozen Intel drives to customers and been using Micron RAM in servers as I've become very, very untrusting of Corsair products. Losing data isn't the problem - it's backed up. What sucks is having to reinstall over and over when things fail. That's time that could be better spent doing something else!

 

Well, we're about to see how long it takes to get this taken care of by Corsair. My trust is waning quickly...and my patience is wearing thin. I'll be reluctant to recommend ANY Corsair product to clients unless I start seeing solid proof that the products are reliable and can be trusted without having to worry if the box will work tomorrow! I haven't seen this many problems from ANY manufacturer in the 27 years of being in this industry.

 

Anybody have any suggestions, noticed the same, or got any ideas?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow...talking about a pain - the RMA gets approved. BUT, *I* have to pay the S&H? And to make matter worse, slow shipping there and slow shipping back. From California to Indiana. Hmmm, 5 days there + up to 48 hrs to process + 5 days back.

 

So, *I* have to pay to wait 2 weeks to get a drive that is an obvious piece of junk that will either 1) fail again in a few months or 2) be DOA when I get it back from the sounds of what others are posting about their problems.

 

Is there anybody out there that actually got a replacement F60 drive back that didn't continue to have problems with it over a decent period of time?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While it is bad that you had three out of three failures with the F60 SSDs, I can't help but wonder why you would use consumer-level products in the "production", apparently enterprise level environment, for critical usage. The F60's are among the cheapest SSDs Corsair makes, and their price is a far cry from Enterprise level SSDs.

 

You may need to change your system validation procedures if you hope to use this type of equipment in the professional environment. In the long run, relatively budget priced components will cost you and your customers more in wasted time, down time, and frustration, than money saved up front, as you well know.

 

I see that Corsair does market some ECC Registered memory for Intel server platforms, DDR3 1066 and 1333 modules, is that what you are having trouble with?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While it is bad that you had three out of three failures with the F60 SSDs, I can't help but wonder why you would use consumer-level products in the "production", apparently enterprise level environment, for critical usage. The F60's are among the cheapest SSDs Corsair makes, and their price is a far cry from Enterprise level SSDs.

 

Sorry but that's just nuts. I love my Force 3 SSD, but any company who would sell consumers faulty products has no business being in business. And I'm sure Corsair feels the same way. Consumers have "mission critical" needs the same as anyone else: their photos, home videos, music they've purchased, etc.

 

If you're talking about server use or military use, that's a different story. But consumers have every right to rely on their SSDs, just as I do on a daily basis for my business use.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry but that's just nuts.

 

Actually, no, it's not. "Enterprise" level is an entirely different animal and requires a different approach. That's why true enterprise equipment costs so much more. There's a huge difference between some guy losing his iTunes folder and some big company losing all their personnel data.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, no, it's not. "Enterprise" level is an entirely different animal and requires a different approach. That's why true enterprise equipment costs so much more. There's a huge difference between some guy losing his iTunes folder and some big company losing all their personnel data.

 

Yellowbeard: That's exactly the point...however, these aren't running in servers. These are in end-user laptops that are being used for "standard" applications - Word, Photoshop, Outlook. For those above who are arguing enterprise vs. consumer, I would qualify this as consumer (end-user), as the people using these units are probably using their systems *less* than the typical consumer. They don't leave their laptops on 24/7 as a desktop replacement. They use it for a few hours a day, then return the laptop to the "hive" before they leave to go home.

 

I'll give CS an email, thanks for that...

 

Parsec: it's obvious you don't understand that "production" vs "beta" has nothing to do with "enterprise" vs. "end-user/commercial". Why would any IT group install high-ended "gamer special" or high-performance drives in ANY unit that would end up running Word? In case you didn't READ the rest of the post, we DO use "high-end" drives - READ: Stec Mach16's in the "enterprise" level items, such as servers and mission-critical boxes. Enterprise drives can cost more per unit than your car. And, that's assuming you have a ZR-1 Corvette. Those drives are tested, validated, and certified to always perform and fail gracefully with plenty of warning. That's what one pays for with them.

 

Toasted: what does firmware have to do with DOA? You have to be able to ACCESS the drive, at least in BIOS, BEFORE you can do a firmware update.

 

Beaulanger: what does "Made in Taiwan" have to do with anything? Most "Made in Taiwan" products are BETTER than "Made in the USA". And, they are more affordable. I'll buy made in China/Japan/Germany over most Made in USA items...anyday.

 

Johnnylighton: Consumer's don't have mission-critical needs. There's a HUGE difference between losing an iTunes library and losing a database full of medical data. The consumer can either 1) live with the loss, 2) redownload/reobtain their data or 3) go torrent it all again. If that re-obtaining of data takes 3 weeks, oh, well. They'll be pissed, but they'll get over it. The mission-critical data is important because there is time involved, usually a deadline, as well as time being money. For example, a patient's critical life or death surgery may take place within hours - not time for waiting for a backup to be restored. And the data, radiographs, tomos, etc. are all required to be had before it all gets started.

 

And, for those consumers who have their whole lives worth of pictures on their drive, well, that's their fault for not BACKING UP their data. I'm also a commercial photographer - guess what, all my job data, their associated RAW files, and my Lightroom/Capture One libraries are backed up to a RAID 50 box. AND, each job is exported individually when complete and burned onto a set of DVDs for separate storage. And then there's the LTO library that backups up the RAID box on a nightly basis.

 

Mainly, my argument has to do with why so many drives have died (all three of the ones I installed, 2 that beaulanger had, and the countless numbers on the forum) when the Intel 320s, X25s, Kingston V's I've deployed in "end-user" units (which are much older) haven't had a single problem. It's very obvious that the RAM is probably still intact, just the controllers are problematic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...

Parsec: it's obvious you don't understand that "production" vs "beta" has nothing to do with "enterprise" vs. "end-user/commercial". Why would any IT group install high-ended "gamer special" or high-performance drives in ANY unit that would end up running Word? In case you didn't READ the rest of the post, we DO use "high-end" drives - READ: Stec Mach16's in the "enterprise" level items, such as servers and mission-critical boxes. Enterprise drives can cost more per unit than your car. And, that's assuming you have a ZR-1 Corvette. Those drives are tested, validated, and certified to always perform and fail gracefully with plenty of warning. That's what one pays for with them...

 

Oh, I read your post from top to bottom several times. That's what I found confusing, the odd mix of enterprise level equipment and plain old consumer products, in so-called production environments. I guess my experience working for a Fortune 100 company is different than your world. If anyone wanted to use their laptop to work from home, for example, it would need approval first. But that was a policy formality, none were ever approved. I thought it was odd at first that we were only allowed to use semi-dumb terminals, supplied by the company, for working at home. Of course, we weren't allowed to carry proprietary software off-site, or build on our home PC's, regardless of their capability.

 

I loved visiting the server rooms, another world where the most avid PC buff would recognize nothing. Even the managers PCs, which were actually the lowest of the low computers on the campus, had little in common hardware-wise with the best pre-built home PCs. We cringed when the so-called old, obsolete PCs were sent back to the provider, as we dreamed of taking them home. Of course, that was really a joke, since if something broke, we would never be able to replace it.

 

There are many worlds out there, in our one big world, and all are different. If consumer level products are passable in parts of yours, whatever. The point is, given that, your expectations will need to be on a sliding scale, and you might consider upping the ante in some cases.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Contact customer service directly and explain to them that you have had multiple RMAs and would like some assistance on the shipping. Contact info under the CONTACT tab, http://www.corsair.com

 

Hey, Yellowbeard...I sent something to CS the other day and haven't heard a thing...my RMA is 2441495...any idea what's going on? The clock is ticking away over here!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have read you are using SSD's in business laptops? From my experience with IT engineers that don't know the principles of having SSD best practises I can say they used default Windows images which caused several bad settings, like:

 

-bad alignment, causing higher wear level and slower performance

-no SSD detection by the OS which results in no TRIM-support, defragmentation enabled, prefetch and page-file enabled causing a much higher wear level

-no recent firmware which sometimes can be usefull to improve SSD life

 

I don't say you are not aware of extra points of attention for using SSD's in existing business environments, but these things can help improve SSD lifetime and save costs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have read you are using SSD's in business laptops? From my experience with IT engineers that don't know the principles of having SSD best practises I can say they used default Windows images which caused several bad settings, like:

 

-bad alignment, causing higher wear level and slower performance

-no SSD detection by the OS which results in no TRIM-support, defragmentation enabled, prefetch and page-file enabled causing a much higher wear level

-no recent firmware which sometimes can be usefull to improve SSD life

 

I don't say you are not aware of extra points of attention for using SSD's in existing business environments, but these things can help improve SSD lifetime and save costs.

 

The first two points are usually addressed with windows 7. As such, I simply cannot recommend an SSD for any other windows platform other than windows 7 or windows server 2008 R2.

 

If you need enterprise level guarantees, there are other manufacturers out there. Especially, those which offer SLC SSD.

 

Regardless, your BIOS detection issue is well known. While I agree Corsair should have tested their products more extensively, I can attest that firmware updates have addressed this issue. You haven't stated what firmware version your drives have, so I am guessing they are not the latest. The drive failing to be detected is actually not an indication of the drive failing per se. If you remove the power and battery to your laptop, you will find that the drive will be detected again (it might take a few tries), you can then update the firmware before you encounter the issue again. The firmware update will fix the BIOS detection and BSOD you are having. I understand your frustration, but I am suggesting a solution to your problem here. RMA will not fix the issue, a firmware update is necessary, and you should give the drive another chance after updating the firmware before calling it quits on these otherwise fantastic drives.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The first two points are usually addressed with windows 7. As such, I simply cannot recommend an SSD for any other windows platform other than windows 7 or windows server 2008 R2.

 

If you need enterprise level guarantees, there are other manufacturers out there. Especially, those which offer SLC SSD.

 

Regardless, your BIOS detection issue is well known. While I agree Corsair should have tested their products more extensively, I can attest that firmware updates have addressed this issue. You haven't stated what firmware version your drives have, so I am guessing they are not the latest. The drive failing to be detected is actually not an indication of the drive failing per se. If you remove the power and battery to your laptop, you will find that the drive will be detected again (it might take a few tries), you can then update the firmware before you encounter the issue again. The firmware update will fix the BIOS detection and BSOD you are having. I understand your frustration, but I am suggesting a solution to your problem here. RMA will not fix the issue, a firmware update is necessary, and you should give the drive another chance after updating the firmware before calling it quits on these otherwise fantastic drives.

 

Actually, you're wrong. The drives DO have the newest firmware AND, removing power and battery or removing the drive and placing it into another box did absolutely nothing. My adaptec card, LSI card, and multiple other cards don't detect it. A USB-to-SATA doesn't detect it. My drive analyzer doesn't detect it - that Ji2 detects everything. How about trying it in a dozen different laptops, from different manufacturer? Not a single one picked it up. Dead is dead. No firmware update, etc. Fantastic drives? 3 of 3 is not very fantastic when they same boxes have Intel 320's in them which show not a single issue...not even a stutter.

 

Doesn't anybody understand the word "dead"? And, where did the idea of a "enterprise-level guarantee" come from? Did you NOT read the above, where it is stated that these are used in end-user laptops? All of our "enterprise-level" storage is based on SCSI and SAS...

 

I have read you are using SSD's in business laptops? From my experience with IT engineers that don't know the principles of having SSD best practises I can say they used default Windows images which caused several bad settings, like:

 

-bad alignment, causing higher wear level and slower performance

-no SSD detection by the OS which results in no TRIM-support, defragmentation enabled, prefetch and page-file enabled causing a much higher wear level

-no recent firmware which sometimes can be usefull to improve SSD life

 

I don't say you are not aware of extra points of attention for using SSD's in existing business environments, but these things can help improve SSD lifetime and save costs.

 

Hmmm...let's see, I AM an engineer AND a developer. And, I write drivers quite often. I think I have a concept of how disk controllers work. Bad alignment? Let's see, Windows 7 was installed from scratch, not Ghosted. So improper boundries MUST only apply to Corsair drives then...as the Intel's MUST not need alignment. WIndows 7 MUST be aligning the drive a 2,4,6,8K segments. Hmmm. Yeah. Ok. I think the 4K alignment is quite ok.

 

Higher wear? As in wearing through the life of a drive in < 60 days. Now that's some wear! Slower performance? How about 0MB/yr of data transfer...slow? Hah! Nothing on MTBF!

 

No SSD detection because of TRIM? Uh, did you not read first before opening your thought train? It's NO BIOS detection, as in PRE-OS LOAD.

 

Defrag, prefetch, superfetch, etc? They ARE off...I don't use them anyways.

 

Page file...try running something like SQL server with the page file disabled...or Lightroom. Most applications *require* a small chunk of the page file, even if you have 32GB of RAM. Try pulling up the SDK/DDK from MSDN and read about how the page file operates.

 

Please people, 1) read before you comment and 2) only comment if you have something USEFUL to contribute...not something you've read on the idiotweb somewhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Contact customer service directly and explain to them that you have had multiple RMAs and would like some assistance on the shipping. Contact info under the CONTACT tab, http://www.corsair.com

 

Hey, Yellowbeard...sorry to bother you with this, but...

 

I had received a "canned" email from cs on Monday asking for model, name, address, etc. Which I sent right back, but haven't heard a peep since. I don't think they even read the message sent, or the reference in it to this posting. Gettin' kinda old, ya know...any ideas what is going on? This drive is sitting here and time is a dragging out...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wait until you get a refurbished drive back as a replacement for all of those. Then you will really start to be pissed.

 

The reply I got back when I complained about a less then 2 month old drive being replaced with a refurb was a copy/paste with their warranty policy attached.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wait until you get a refurbished drive back as a replacement for all of those. Then you will really start to be pissed.

 

The reply I got back when I complained about a less then 2 month old drive being replaced with a refurb was a copy/paste with their warranty policy attached.

 

Oh, I already expect to get a refurb drive...even if the drive was DOA right out of the box, it'll be a refurb. Unless you return it to the store. But, then the next one will be DOA too! So I guess the end result will be a refurb, or in the current case, NO DRIVE! It's been almost 2 weeks and they STILL haven't responded to me about my drive! Well, there was the first canned "Please send the following info" email. Not a peep from them since I replied to that!

 

Still a dead drive sitting here on my desk. Still no idea how long it's going to take to get a new one. I've recommended and already pulled ALL Corsair items from my clients. I've probably bought about $5K in Intel SSDs alone in the last week for that endeavour. Then came all the time to Ghost off the installs to new drives (which for those boundry idiots - matches just fine).

 

This is ridiculous - if they can't service a "cheap" drive, why would I want to recommend or buy something that is "critical" and expensive? Just imagine if this was $1000 SSD sitting in somebody's box who paid that and expected it to work right without any issues! I'd NEVER recommend that - to look like an idiot when it failed and takes forever to get replaced.

 

I've already sent 3 more emails to CS, left a posting or two on here, and even PM'd Yellowbeard about seeing if he knew what's going on. Not a peep out of anyone! WTF? Looks like this'll be a 2012 or 2013 drive by the time it gets "fixed"!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey doc! Give them 2 more weeks. Its "costumer"-service, not SBD-critical-infrastructure-"enterprise"-support :P

I have the same problem as you. Installed corsair-ssds in some boxes of my costumers. No good feeling - as you know.

 

But i think its not a corsair specific problem. Maybe its the sandforce controller and its crappy firmware. I think, the productionplaces and -standards are NOT very different between corsair and ******** or some other "reseller".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...