Brcobrem Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Re: TW3X4G1333C9DHX with TW3X4G1600C9DHX Hi, Nothing's broke here (yet that is). I have a couple general questions please. A little backgroud if I may please. This is a little lenghty, but I want to provide you with the appropriate facts. Here goes: Back in June of 2010, I built an "ASUS P5E3 PREMIUM/WIFI-AP @n LGA 775 Intel X48 ATX Intel Motherboard" with "Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550S Yorkfield 2.83GHz 12MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Quad-Core Desktop Processor" system. For RAM, I purchased "CORSAIR XMS3 DHX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TW3X4G1600C9DHX". Here's a link to the a pic of the TW3X4G1600C9DHX as shipped: https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=0ba9610cbd3ba347&page=play&resid=BA9610CBD3BA347!290 The Intel CPU FSB runs natively at 1300MHz, and I am satisfied with performance and stability at that frequency. I originally purchased the 1600MHz Corsair DDR3 to do some playing around with light OC'ing of the CPU. But I am back down to 1333 and happy there. As far as the OS, the original build was WinXP Pro, then I upgraded to Vista Ultimate 32bit, and then again to Win7 Ultimate 32bit. I mention this because my work requires me to do OS testing and various database testing on different OS's. For that I use VMware Workstation. I now find that the 64 bit server OS I'm currently testing needs to have at least ~4GB memory in the VM. Btw, with VMWare Workstation, you can run a 64bit OS "Guest" VM on a Win7 32bit "Host". However, since I need the "Guest" VM to have 4GB memory, and Win7 32bit "Host" only supports 4GB max (even less when your deduct the 780 MB the video card reserves for mapping), I need to migrate to Win7 64bit to get the box up to the 8GB max for this motherboard. I could not currently find a used pair of TW3X4G1600C9DHX at a reasonable price. Surprisingly, I did find an advertised "New" pack of "Corsair XMS3 DHX 4GB 2X2GB DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666, P/N )". Imho, they were not inexpensive, but were reasonably priced for two year old ram. They're also not the DDR 1600''s I have in the original build, but as mentioned above, I run the FSB at 1300MHz anyway. On the Asus P5E3, per the Asus manual, I mounted the original pair of TW3X4G1600C9DHX in the black slots (see pic in link below): https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=0ba9610cbd3ba347&page=play&resid=BA9610CBD3BA347!290 I intend to mount the "New" TW3X4G1333C9DHX pieces in the now unpopulated black slots (see link above). Now after all that (sorry), here are my two questions: 1) Should the "New" TW3X4G1333C9DHX in fact be mounted in the unpopulated black slots, or should I have one piece in a black slot and the other piece in a red slot on the same side? My thinking is that since this is dual channel memory, the "New" TW3X4G1333C9DHX pieces should be mounted in the unpopulated black slots. Leave the existing TW3X4G1600C9DHX inthe blue slots where they are now. Please don't laugh too hard at this question, and keep in mind that I don't do hardware builds every day. 2) I've used quotes on the word "New" (like that) througout this post. I'm questioning whether these pieces are infact new for two reasons. First is that if you've seen the Corsair blister pack packing for this series of memory, your can open and easily snap it back together, with no indication if any damage to the packaging. Second, I examined the gold contacts with a jeweller's magifier (my eyes need that assistance), and I can see double scratch marks on each of the contacts. I can understand that perhaps Corsair factory tests the pieces and there might be one set of scratches on the pins, but two scratches on each pin leads me to believe that these pices have been installed before. At this point, I have not installed the "New" pieces of TW3X4G1333C9DHX, pending your comments. Based on your comments about this question, I may contact the seller to find out exactly how this ram was used. For example: was it used for OC testing purposes in a game machine? Are there any known issues? What if I install it and it doesn't pass an overnight memory scan?, etc.. Thank you for making this far in a lengthy post. I look forward to any advice, comments or suggestions that you care to provide. Regards, Brcobrem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanutz94 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 1) Should the "New" TW3X4G1333C9DHX in fact be mounted in the unpopulated black slots, or should I have one piece in a black slot and the other piece in a red slot on the same side? My thinking is that since this is dual channel memory, the "New" TW3X4G1333C9DHX pieces should be mounted in the unpopulated black slots. Leave the existing TW3X4G1600C9DHX inthe blue slots where they are now. Please don't laugh too hard at this question, and keep in mind that I don't do hardware builds every day. You can try what you like , but it is never recommended to mix memory. The chances of them running together are pretty slim. Your best bet would be to scrap what you have and buy a single matched 8 gig pack. But to answer part of your question, Yes, for dual channel operation you need the sticks in matching slots. So if you just use two sticks they would be in the two black slots. 2) I've used quotes on the word "New" (like that) throughout this post. I'm questioning whether these pieces are in fact new for two reasons. First is that if you've seen the Corsair blister pack packing for this series of memory, your can open and easily snap it back together, with no indication if any damage to the packaging. Second, I examined the gold contacts with a jeweller's magifier (my eyes need that assistance), and I can see double scratch marks on each of the contacts. I can understand that perhaps Corsair factory tests the pieces and there might be one set of scratches on the pins, but two scratches on each pin leads me to believe that these pices have been installed before. At this point, I have not installed the "New" pieces of TW3X4G1333C9DHX, pending your comments. Based on your comments about this question, I may contact the seller to find out exactly how this ram was used. For example: was it used for OC testing purposes in a game machine? Are there any known issues? What if I install it and it doesn't pass an overnight memory scan?, etc.. Each kit is tested on a MB before beng packaged, so it's entirely possible for a brand new kit to show signs of that. If they do not pass memtest then you would have no recourse as far as a warrenty goes. It applies to the original purchaser and is not transferable to second hand owners. You would need to have the person you bought them from RMA the kit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brcobrem Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 Hi peanutz94, Thanks for the reply and taking the time to wade through that lengthy post. You mentioned "warranty". I should have mentioned that I know there would be no warranty from Corsair on the supposed "New" stick. As you implied, this was a 3rd party purchase. I also appreciate the reply that "Each kit is tested on a MB before beng packaged . . .". So some contact markings on the gold contacts would be normal then. I also appreciate your advice regarding "for dual channel operation you need the sticks in matching slots". I was just making a reasonable educated guess and appreciate getting a confirmation on that. The default timings are the same on both the old and "new" sticks, so I figure it might work. I'm going to pull out the 1600's, then put in the 1300's and test them separately first with memtest. As courtesy to you and the forum, I'll let you know how this tests out at 1300MHz FSB. Regards, Brcobrem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brcobrem Posted November 16, 2011 Author Share Posted November 16, 2011 Hi peanutz94 and Forum, I memtested the 1600's as a pair (4GB), then the 1333's as a pair (4GB), then both pairs together (8GB). Thankfully, all three tests were 100% pass. Next I booted Win7 32bit (ie. 4GB max) with the 1600's and made some CPU-Z screen shots and a MaxxMem test, shut down, pulled the 1600's and put in the 1333's, booted up, and repeated the pics. If put the pics into "Side by side comparison of TW3X4G1600C9DHX and TW3X4G1333C9DHX" up at: https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=0ba9610cbd3ba347&resid=BA9610CBD3BA347!299 Other than their rated frequency, they both similar except that their tRAS abd tRC timings are a little different. What I don't understand, is why that on page 4 of 6 in the pdf, the 1600's are showing that they are PC3-8500's. Btw, memtest showed them that way too. I would have expected to see PC3-12800. Any idea what's up with that? Thanks, Brcobrem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanutz94 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Apart from being similar maybe in timings and speed, they are hugely different. Both made from different chips and so on. That is where your incompatibility comes into play when you try to mix two kit like that. One small difference in performance between the two and you start having problems. If they will run together it's at a reduced frequency, which is what you are seeing in your reports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brcobrem Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 Above I said, "What I don't understand, is why that on page 4 of 6 of the pdf, the 1600's are showing that they are PC3-8500's. Btw, memtest showed them that way too. I would have expected to see PC3-12800." Let me clarify with more information: When I saw the two 1600's reported as PC3-8500, only the 1600 sticks were in the board, in the two black slots where they are supposed to be when you have only two 2GB sticks. Running Memtest from a PE based CD boot shows them that way, and so does CPU-Z when boot up into Win7 and run that. Any thoughts on that? Thanks again . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee RAM GUY Posted November 18, 2011 Corsair Employee Share Posted November 18, 2011 Please post a screen shot of the SPD tab in CPU-Z fro all of the modules you have installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brcobrem Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 Hi Ram Guy, Sorry for the delayed reply. Anyway . . . Today I edited (ie. corrected) my 11-16-2011 02:53 PM thread above. You can note the Edit comment I made. The corrected url now shows the pdf that I intended to post on the 16th. Page 4 of 6 shows the SPD for the tab for the TW3X4G1600C9DHX in Slot #2. Fyi, Slot #4 (not shown) is exactly the same. One point I've failed to mention in the pdf was the BIOS DRAM Frequency was set for 1333MHz for both the 1600 stick tests, and the 1333 stick tests. But since we're talking about the 1600 sticks being reported as PC3-8500 now, that's a moot topic at this point I suppose. I look forward to your thoughts again on this. Regards, Brcobrem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brcobrem Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 Btw, if interested . . . I did two other little experiments tonight just for the heck of it with only the two1600MHz sticks. First I changed the Asus BIOS's "AI Tweaker" from "Auto" to "X.M.P.". That just made the POST report that they were DDR3-1066. The MaxMemm test I did when it booted up reflected noticeably poorer performance too as a result. So I returned AI Tweaker back to Auto and the DRAM Frequency back to 1333 where they've always been. On the second test I set the DRAM Frequency up to 1600MHz (even though my CPU's rated FSB is only 1333). I posted this test as "TW3X4G1600C9DHX with BIOS Dram Frequency set to 1600MHz.pdf" at: https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=0ba9610cbd3ba347&resid=BA9610CBD3BA347!299 Brcobrem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee RAM GUY Posted November 23, 2011 Corsair Employee Share Posted November 23, 2011 I am sorry but you are mixing two sets of memory which is not supported and the SPD information is correct for each part, if you install one matching set do you have any problems, if no then there is not a lot we can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brcobrem Posted November 24, 2011 Author Share Posted November 24, 2011 Hi, I don't know how much clearer I can make this. Fyi, only once, have I ever had two 1600's and two 1300's installed at the same time (just to see if I could run memtest and see it pass). So, please take another look at my pdf at: https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=0ba9610cbd3ba347&resid=BA9610CBD3BA347!299 titled "Side by side comparison of TW3X4G1600C9DHX and TW3X4G1333C9DHX" That document is a comparison. It doesn't say anything about installing two of one kind, and two of another kind (ie. 4 sticks total). The comparison is two sticks of 1600 in one test (ie. left side of the doc), and two sticks of 1300 in another test (right side of the doc). Note that the BIOS DRAM Freq was set for 1330 for the comparison tests. So, let me rephrase/restate the question please: Why on page 4 of 6 of the pdf, are the 1600's are showing that they are PC3-8500's ? Once again, there are only 2 sticks of anything installed in the PC, and they just happen to be the 1600MHz DDR3's. And, both CPU-Z and Memtest show them as PC3-8500's. Note that the BIOS DRAM Freq was set for 1330. I look forward to your reply. Brcobrem P.S. To hopefully eliminate another round of threads, you may also want to take a look at the doc "TW3X4G1600C9DHX with BIOS Dram Frequency set to 1600MHz.pdf" that's at that same url. In that test, I tested the 1600's, but set the BIOS memory to 1600Mhz (note the CPU FSB was left at 1330). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee RAM GUY Posted November 28, 2011 Corsair Employee Share Posted November 28, 2011 The SPD has to be set to something that the MB can post at with default settings so they will show as either DDR1066 or DDR1333 depending on the Build of the modules and what they are made for IE Intel or AMD, so that is normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brcobrem Posted November 29, 2011 Author Share Posted November 29, 2011 Hi Ram Guy, Ok I think I'm see what's going on now. Let me recap please: 1) The PC-8500 that I'm seeing in CPU-Z is being read from the SPD info on the stick. The SPD defaults to PC-8500 (ie. DDR3 1066) for maximum compatibility situations. That make sense because when I've had simple problems in the past (perhaps a stuck boot or such), after pressing the reset button, the POST display will show that the the Memory Frequency has automatically dropped back to DDR3 1066. I just go back into the BIOS and bump it back up to 1333 or 1600, and things are back to normal, and the POST then displays 1333 or 1600 accordingly. 2) In the BIOS, I can manually override that PC-8500 default by (for example) selecting DRAM Freq of 1600. The test that I did in "TW3X4G1600C9DHX with BIOS Dram Frequency set to 1600MHz.pdf" shows that memory performance was very much better, even though CPU-Z still displays the SPD default PC-8500/DDR3 1066 info. Do I have the correct understanding and interpretations now? Thanks for staying with me on this . . . Regards, Brcobrem P.S. If interested: For others following these threads, on the Asus P5E3 Premium board (leaving the "AI Tweaker" to Auto and not X.M.P) when you manually increase the DRAM Frequency to 1600, 1800 or 2000, the FSB Frequency and CPU Ratio will be optimized automatically. That is why the "TW3X4G1600C9DHX with BIOS Dram Frequency set to 1600MHz.pdf" shows that the CPU Bus and CPU FSB speeds have been bumped up to 400MHz and 1601MHz (even though the defaults for the installed Intel Q9550S are 333MHz and 1333MHz respectively). So I am doing a slight OC that has proved to be totally stable and runs both CPU and MB ~107F/42C all day with a standard Intel cooler. I just popped off the case and used a (laser aimed) IR thermometer on the two Corsair 1600 sticks: The hottest spot is on the body of the stick closest to the CPU and it's 105F/40C, the body of the stick towards the front of the case reads 100F/37C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee RAM GUY Posted November 29, 2011 Corsair Employee Share Posted November 29, 2011 Yes but XMP was not developed until the release of X58 chipsets so this was added after the fact and usually XMP settings will not work properly on this chipset because it has different limitations for memory speed than newer chipsets Like for Core I5 and I7. In addition with this chipset you cannot run the memory frequency faster than the CPU FSB so on this MB with the CPU you have DDR1333 would be the fastest the memory could be set to unless you over clock the CPU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brcobrem Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Hi Ram Guy, Ok, we're basically on the same page now. Thanks. If you read my "P.S." in my last thread, you may notice that I said that manually setting the DRAM Freq to 1600 automatically results in a slight over clock (OC) of the CPU. I mentioned that <when I set the DRAM Freq up to 1600>, the "CPU Bus and CPU FSB speeds have been <automatically> bumped up to 400MHz and 1601MHz (even though the defaults for the installed Intel Q9550S are 333MHz and 1333MHz respectively)". Yes, this is an X48 chipset as you eluded to. And yes, I am in OC territory now. And yes, with this slight OC, it is still extremely stable. This particular motherboard was made to be tweaked, and provides automatic adjustments appropriately to CPU and FSB when you adjust DRAM frequency. I appreciate your shared experience on the topics covered. Btw, I found a new home for the 1333 sticks, so they will not be co-mingled with the existing 1600 sticks. Regards, Brcobrem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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