Indigo Xtreme reflow + H70 advice

[ctgilles]

Has anyone tried this before? I have one application left from a previous install and wanted to try it.

 

Will the reflow (when hitting 80°C) not damage the pump? Because I am sure the CPU comes out unharmed, but I don't want to destroy my new H70 by overheating the pump while it is disconnected.

[jetboy]

Keep in mind that Indigo Xtreme lists the H50 as "incompatible" due to its mount being fixed. Meaning, no compression/springs to add pressure as the reflow thins. That being said, I'm going to attempt it tonight if I have time. I think I have seen ppl state that on full load their i7's are reaching low to mid 80's, so, I don't think it will damage the pump/block. If it does, believe me, you will all know about it tomorrow.

[ctgilles]

Thanks for the info. I am a bit concerned when pump is disabled... the H70 block is thin with that pump in it. I have Shinetsu X23 (newest one) and also some Liquid Pro and Ultra but I left them in my appartment and that's many miles from home. Don't have the time to go get it. Although ultra would probably work good with this awkward mounting system.

[jetboy]

I’m not sure if the H50 and IE is happy together. My first application when following instructions wouldn’t let me boot into windows without shutting down. I restarted and plugged in my pump just to see where I was at for temps and even with the pump on my cores were at 95c. This took a while to come down to normal operating temperatures. I then started Prime95 to stress and see where my temps were. Noticed that they were about 4 degrees higher than with Arctic Silver 5. I figured reflow didn’t do well with the shutdown, so, I checked. Not only did it only flow about 60%, it leaked onto my motherboard. Is the containing material hazardous? Is it conductive? I have no idea.

 

I decided to try the final application. This time I left the pump running to unplug once I got into windows and stressed. You will see from the Speedfan image, that just booting into windows was at 72-76c while my H50 pump was running. As soon as I unplugged the pump, temps rose to 100c where I got worried and plugged back in. I don’t know if reflow was fully successful and never saw a “dip” that would normalize after. The H50 pump seems to simply insulate too much to dissipate heat without the pump running. Which in turn, would not allow me to monitor temps like those shown in your instructions. Checking my temps after the 2nd application, I am still seeing around 1-3c higher temps than with AS5, so, I once again don’t think it is working fully. It was worth a try. I’m just not sure that this product is safe to use with the H50 though. Maybe when I go full water I may try again. But, now I'm off to try something else. Maybe IC7.

 

http://i38.tinypic.com/3354dxw.jpg

[everettfsj]

The Indigo Xtreme reflow process can be rather tricky.

 

I've used it three times with my H50.

 

I've never gotten the reflow temperature vs time curve as Indigo shows in their instillation instructions.

 

However, I believe I've always gotten good reflow, as per the first two applications, wedge shaped and nearly full coverage.

 

Also, if you are not careful, you can break the seal of this TIM if you move the hoses/radiator about too much (one reason for my second instillation, the 3rd instillation was required because I moved the location of the radiator from the rear to the front, which required a reorientation of the H50 pump).

 

I use Prime95 as the stress program and have to lower my CPU clock from 2.8GHz (default) to somewhere in the 2.0GHz range (or even lower) before starting the reflow process, otherwise I go straight to 99C and my system shuts down.

 

When I get an H70 I'll be doing a bunch of benchmark tests against the H50 I have, the stock Intel heatsink, and an AC Freezer XTREME Rev. 2 air cooler, at several different ambient tempreatures. For these tests, I'll be using IC7 TIM throughout.

[jetboy]

I use Prime95 as the stress program and have to lower my CPU clock from 2.8GHz (default) to somewhere in the 2.0GHz range (or even lower) before starting the reflow process, otherwise I go straight to 99C and my system shuts down.

 

When I get an H70 I'll be doing a bunch of benchmark tests against the H50 I have, the stock Intel heatsink, and an AC Freezer XTREME Rev. 2 air cooler, at several different ambient tempreatures. For these tests, I'll be using IC7 TIM throughout.

 

I wish I would've thought about severly underclocking my cpu before trying it at 2am. I only set to stock settings as the instructions stated and it went straight to themal protection with the pump off. I might order more knowing that fact. It is a very stressfull process to do, but, maybe if I can downclock to 1.5GHz and see if I can get a proper flow.

 

My room is currently cooler than normal and I can't quite get a comparison temperature. It is within 1-3c of my AS5 so I guess its working. Not working to the extent from reviews I seen though. Should be 1-3c under what I have used (AS5 and S-E x23) not 1-3c over.

 

everettfsj, when mounting your H50 pump/block did you just screw down tight or a hair loose and apply pressure? The tilted IX application had me screwing it tight buy still applying pressure for when it flattened out. Still not sure if that worked. Have you used the IC7 before? If so, how did it compare to IX?

[everettfsj]

I wish I would've thought about severly underclocking my cpu before trying it at 2am. I only set to stock settings as the instructions stated and it went straight to themal protection with the pump off. I might order more knowing that fact. It is a very stressfull process to do, but, maybe if I can downclock to 1.5GHz and see if I can get a proper flow.

 

My room is currently cooler than normal and I can't quite get a comparison temperature. It is within 1-3c of my AS5 so I guess its working. Not working to the extent from reviews I seen though. Should be 1-3c under what I have used (AS5 and S-E x23) not 1-3c over.

 

everettfsj, when mounting your H50 pump/block did you just screw down tight or a hair loose and apply pressure? The tilted IX application had me screwing it tight buy still applying pressure for when it flattened out. Still not sure if that worked. Have you used the IC7 before? If so, how did it compare to IX?

 

I've always left it as first tightened, but I know what you're saying about trying to get it flat to the CPU's IHS.

 

I make sure that all four screws are very snug to tight, I then tighten the two screws adjacent to the thicker side of the reflow U-shaped bottom about half a turn (the screws are 48 TPI).

 

I really don't want to mess with the screws after that, as I've yet to get their reflow temperature vs time curve, to know for sure that it is in it's temporary liquid state.

 

I've also run the stress test for longer than they suggest, two to three minutes typically, that way I'm fairly sure it has actually completed the reflow process.

 

I think it would help out Indigo a lot, to come up with some better and more foolproof instructions, and I don't like their stress test program, as you have to start it up for each core and 2X the cores for hyperthreading AFAIK.

 

When I do decide on an H70 (hopefully this week) the first thing I'll do is benchmark the H50 again :sigh!: then rerun the exact same test conditions with some IC7.

 

I do know that out of the 5-6 TIMS I've tried, the Indigo Xtreme did give me the lowest core temperatures (I'll need to find that spreadsheet), followed by the IC7.

[E46Johnny]

I think i remember that when re flowing Indigo Extreme the mother board must be absolutely horizontal, if not the product can/will run of the cpu and on to the surrounding components.

 

And after the re flowing it must be in the horizontal position until the product have cooled down.

[everettfsj]

I think i remember that when re flowing Indigo Extreme the mother board must be absolutely horizontal, if not the product can/will run of the cpu and on to the surrounding components.

 

And after the re flowing it must be in the horizontal position until the product have cooled down.

 

Absolutely! ::pirate::

[jetboy]

Well, with more Indigo Xtreme on the way, I decided to take my pump/block off and check the flow of my 2nd attempt. I was very surprised that it had actually flowed to around 90% coverage. I did have a slight leak again which might be where the other 10% went. Is this stuff conductive? I might want to be more careful next time.

 

After all my testing, I was seeing around 52-53c temps for load with the IX. That was around a 20-21c rise from system temp which was 31-32c. I reapplied my Shin Etsu x23 and did about 2hrs burn and 1hr idle for a slight cure. Temps were around 55-57c. I would say that it was also around a 21-23c rise from system temp. Only problem is that due to the H50 set as intake, system temp was around 34-36c. So, the delta is about the same for the two, but, because x23 runs hotter it is also increasing my system temp.

 

I've got IC7 on the way as well as more IX. I think the Indigo is going on again first though. Going to try to underclock to around 1.5Ghz to attempt a flow temperature curve as described on the IX website. If that doesn't give me the temps I saw before with it, I will retry with the process that seemed to work for me last time. I only wish I could maintain my room temp for a more accurate comparison, but, so far its seeming like Indigo Xtreme is better than Shin-Etsu by around 2-4c.

[jetboy]

Now after more testing, I am seeing about the same temps from IC7 as I do with Indigo Xtreme. Maybe +1c, maybe. I have also seen, more than once, the IX leaves residual metal behind even after trying to scrape it with a credit card. First time, I just relapped my CPU because thats where it had the slight particles. Next time, it was on my H50 block. I scraped and scraped and I just couldn't remove the residue metal. I even tried to sort of polish it with some IC7. That worked slightly, so, I just applied the IC7 and booted up.

 

With IC7, temps are very close to the IX. Matter of fact, in a 29c room, I will now say that IX (full load 55-56c), IC7 (full load 55-57), and AS5 (full load 56-59c) are all within 3c of each other. If the room is 25c then full load for IX and IC7 is about 51-53c.

 

Lapping has given me the best temperature reduction. Second, was better fans (I've got a Noiseblocker Blacksilent XLP for push and a Feser TK-122 for pull) with better static pressure performance. Third, was the TIM.

 

Keep in mind that these #'s were not produced in a lab, so, there is no solid control to use my settup as what will work for everyone. Only my experience in a quest to get my 940be at a lower operating temperature. When I started with the 940 and H50 combo, I was getting load temps from 62-66c in a 28c room. Now, I will see 59c in a 31c room. If the room is 29c, I get load temps maxing at 55-57c. And room down to 25c I see loads around 51-53c.

 

To end this all, my opinion is that Indigo Xtreme isn't worth the price or the trouble if useing the H50. I just can't get it to work well enough to justify it. At least not when IC7 is so easy to apply.

[E46Johnny]

A shroud/airbox between the fans and Rad could also help reducing temps a few degrees.

[jetboy]

A shroud/airbox between the fans and Rad could also help reducing temps a few degrees.

 

I've got a 25mm shroud on the push side and the Feser is basically a small shroud built into the fan for the pull. I have them set to adjust fan speed according to CPU temp. When they are full speed, its flowing a decent amount of air through the radiator. I think the only way I'm going to increase the performance now, is to either add or get a larger radiator for more surface area.