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Partitions on P128, will trim work?


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I like to partition my drives, but ramguy mentioned that might not be a good idea in another thread:

 

Gparted or Parted Magic can be used but I would suggest you use what you know and I do not suggest partitioning a SSD drive you would not gain anything from that and in fact can slow its performance.

 

Normally I set up a multiboot drive with several OS's installed. I've always used QT Parted, but will use the Windows install disc to be safe. Due to worries about trim I intend to only run Windows 7. I'll run the other OS's as virtual machines on W7. I'd like three partitions, one for W7, one for virtual machines (VM), and one for documents. Then I can just format the VM partition to clean out the VM's, or reinstall W7 without touching the documents.

 

If it's just a small performance hit I wouldn't mind. But if trim doesn't work on all the partitions, or in the virtual machines, degradation of the SSD is a serious concern for me.

 

I'd really like to know what others think of this idea. If it was a desktop I'd of course put the docs and other stuff on a separate hard drive, but it's a laptop with room for only one hd.

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Thanks Synthohol, while waiting I shrunk the "C" drive and added "D" and "E."

 

Stuck my virtual machine on "E" (XP Mode). Loaded QuicBooks onto XP and am updating it.

 

What is the expected problem?

 

Not being smart, just like the convenience of reilnstalling the OS to it's own partition.

 

If there is a good reason, I guess I could try the imaging thing and do backups :D: !

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it would seem to me that isolating 3 parts on a single drive will shorten the life of the drive due to uneven wear leveling and such. if 3 parts of the disk are isolated from each other then there would be 3 separate areas that temp/swap files are written and not give the drive's controller a chance to spread the wear around evenly. instead there would be "hot spots" that will degrade faster than if there was one partition that TRIM or wear leveling can evenly distribute data to the cells throughout the drive. at least thats my perception as to what would happen.

 

by running M$ Virtual PC the partitions it created are virtual, they are just single files on the drive that contain the OS's and the optimizing features would treat the virtual partitions as just a clump of contiguous files that can be managed through the controllers wear leveling features.

 

if my understanding of how the drive would treat a single partition over multiple logical drives is flawed, i sincerely welcome a official lesson on where my thought process is incorrect as this is how i learn and become well informed,

 

thanks!

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Thanks again, Synthohol.

 

I hadn't thought about the idea that the Operating System (OS) would be a busy hot spot, and could only be wear leveled over it's own partition. I would have guessed that the virtual memory/page files would be stored only on the OS's partition.

 

I'm totally in doubt about what happens with the VM XP OS. Does the trim function work in that area because it's riding on W7, or does it not work because it's XP writing the info to the disk? I'd hoped that since ultimately W7was doing the writing, trim would work.

 

One reason I wanted a separate partition for the virtual machine is that the instructions always used to say (MS Virtual PC -'05,'07) that you could not uninstall some of the files. Thought I could just format that partition to clear everything. Just to clarify I'm now running "XP Mode", a newer virtual machine that works differently that the old MS VPC.

 

I also hope we get an official lesson here. This is tricky and difficult muddy water to swim through unknown territory in!

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when you create a virtual partition with VPC its just a single file on the disk as win7 sees it, so the TRIM/WL functions (when VPC is not running) theoretically should be able to move that file as it sees fit since these functions activate during an idle state of W7. if the VPC is running it is still activity on the disk so i dont think TRIM will even initiate.

 

i think we would have to hit up the microsoft forums to get an official answer really as Corsair is only responsible to provide hardware that supports the use of a microsoft function, not support the actual function itself :)

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Mmmmm, you are really forcing me to think!

 

W7 has access to, and writes to and reads, all three partitions. Doesn't that mean that it will wear level (trim) all three partitions if there is enough free space to move around in?

 

My VM partition is 10.21 GB with 9GB free (88%). That should leave plenty of room for now, unless trim only operates in the OS partition.

 

You have gotten me thinking especially about the "C" (OS) partition being very busy (hot spot) and having only limited room (currently 60% free) to do trimming in.

 

Of course, I don't know how this all works. For all I know, the partitions themselves may be moved around by trim. Or not!

 

I do appreciate getting the detailed discussion of the issue from you, it helps me to better understand - or at least think about - whats happening.

 

I'd still be interested in what some of the Corsair guys think, they've probably forgotten more than I'll ever know about the issue!

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  • Corsair Employees
Wear Leveling is done in the controller on the drive and has nothing to do with the Format or partitions on the drive or TRIM/ Garbage Collection. And Trim is a function to clean the unused data left in clusters from deleting files as you know when Windows deletes a file it does not delete the whole file only the first character and with SSD drives the cluster needs to be wiped clean before new data can be written to it. Garbage Collection is similar to TRIM but is done in the controller verses a commend in windows to clean the unused data.
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Hi Ram Guy, thank you for commenting!

 

I really hoped you would since your posts throughout the forum have provided most of my education on this whole new world of the ssd. Without the helpful info in this forum I would not have dared to buy my P128 at this time.

 

Try not to give me too much credit for understanding these issues, I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from your info.

 

Here is what I think I get:

 

Wear Leveling is done by the (Samsung) controller on the drive. Trim is done by W7, the OS. The new (#19) firmware allows the controller and the trim function to cooperate.

 

Here is what I don't get:

 

Will the trim function, in cooperation with the (Samsung) controller, operate across the entire ssd even if there are partitions? I have three partitions: OS, Documents, and MS Virtual XP Mode. To protect my new P128 ssd, should I remove my partitions? An immediate and stable slight drop off in performance is not an issue for me. It's not a gaming computer. Degradation of the drive from improper setup is a concern that I wish to avoid.

 

Here is another (unrelated) question that I have. Is it still necessary to do a cold boot and allow the machine to sit idle, or will the trim and wear leveling take place in the background when the processor is not too busy?

 

 

I'd like to add that so far I really like my new ssd, Windows has never been so snappy, bootup is remarkably quick. I already feel that I could never go back to a spinning disk for the OS on a laptop.

 

And when I hovered my cursor over the battery symbol (which showed the level down a bit), it showed 10 1/2 hours of battery life left!!! :eeeeek:

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  • Corsair Employees
Will the trim function, in cooperation with the (Samsung) controller, operate across the entire ssd even if there are partitions? I have three partitions: OS, Documents, and MS Virtual XP Mode. T

A: There has not been any testing that I am aware of by Samsung with this situation only with the drive as one whole drive and using NTFS. Theoretically it should not matter but there is no information to support it one way or the other. However we did some testing and the performance would drop on all partitions if one started to degrade from what we saw using partitions so there was no benefit from partitioning a drive and in fact the performance seems to drop sooner in some situations

 

To protect my new P128 ssd, should I remove my partitions? An immediate and stable slight drop off in performance is not an issue for me. It's not a gaming computer. Degradation of the drive from improper setup is a concern that I wish to avoid
.

A: Yes I would just use the drive as one partition/Drive and use a second spinning HDD to store all excess data to keep the SSD as lean as possible and at top performance.

 

And yes in deed battery life can be extended greatly when using a SSD drive over a spinning HDD, in fact one of the latest Notebook Roundups/Reviews I just read seems to confirm that and that more NB's are being sold with SSD as an option. Even more Apples and or Mac have SSD as an option.

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Thank you Ram Guy!

 

You and Synthohol have convinced me to remove my partitions to get the best wear out of the ssd. I'm having a lot happen just now, but at my earliest convenience I will make it all one disk space.

 

Thanks again!

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Moved documents to "C" and removed the "D" partition. Added the space to "C". Couldn't seem to move XP Mode ("E" partition) so I uninstalled it and am reinstalling it to the "C" drive. Just thought I'd let you know I followed through immediately!

 

Thanks for the advice.

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  • Corsair Employees
NP Please let us know how you make out, but you may be best to image the current drive to another drive then wipe it with Partition Magic and then recreate the partition as one drive.
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