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X-series, open discussion thread


JKswe

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Since there have been alot of threads about firmware and X-series etc and many have been closed and some removed, im making this new one to let us, the users of the X-series ventilate our frustration and thoughts about the product.

 

Below is a copy and paste from a post i made earlier in a thread that now is moved to a completely dead part of the forums, so here we go again!

 

I posted these before.. but Corsair admin removed the thread.

 

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/storage/2010/02/04/windows-7-ssd-performance-and-trim/1

 

They have a very nice article about the subject we discuss here.

 

Ill quote the conclusion of the article and well, its something we allready know

 

"For those running an SSD, or thinking of picking one up in the near future there should be no doubt though – TRIM should be regarded as an essential feature for any SSD and we urge anyone running Windows 7 to make the effort and update your firmware. The results really do speak for themselves."

 

They even discuss different brands, ofc not Corsair duh!, but others with Indilinx controllers.

 

Quote (i have left out the manufacturer with ***)

 

"The Indilinx based *** was hit hard by our dirty NAND, non-TRIM tests so it’s great that the latest TRIM enabled firmware not only allowed our thrashed *** to perform not just as fast as a clean non-TRIM drive, but in some circumstances notably faster. Sequential read speeds are rock steady at 225MB/s, with sequential write speeds up slightly to 159MB/s, even after we’d thrown 1TB of files at the drive. Random read and write performance were completely unaffected and ATTO performance, where the *** had seen a huge performance drop with the older v1571 firmware, was similarly unchanged. A great result for Indilinx."

 

I myself am just so damn tirred of these excuses and other BS from Corsair (closed threads, removed threads etc, the list is long) that i have ordered 2 new SSD´s from the *** brand and i will enjoy every sec using them.

 

So thanks Corsair for the time i spent with you!!! Its been a nice 4years with diff products in my setup and the visits i did to your booth on Cebit will be missed.

 

But its time to move on.. i will continue to read these forums to see if you one day will make that firmware and updatetool you so nicely talked about in September 2009...

 

Corsair, its been 112days today since Win 7 got released.... 1 1 2 days...

 

So as i see it, we need to keep the topic alive, so please post your thoughts about and feelings about the X-series (firmware 1.0) here and hope that Corsair takes us, the users, seriosuly!

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This link you posted - http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/sto...nce-and-trim/1 is no longer valid and does not exist. I personally have a Corsair X-128 SSD which I use in my laptop with Windows 7 Ultimate x64 and it screams along, despite no TRIM support to my knowledge. I know people are getting frustrated with the firmware update and released, but no X series user wants to end up having a dead drive and losing data, as I chose the Indilinx X Series because they can be updated without losing any data.

 

Its just a wait and see and it will pay off in the end.

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Its just a wait and see and it will pay off in the end.

 

I felt this way at one time - but how long do we have to wait? Windows 7 was available as Beta and RC a full year before its release. Both Samsung and Indilinx knew it would be supporting TRIM and had plenty of time to develop an update that would work alongside TRIM .... AND have an update utility that users could employ to inititate the new firmware.

 

Samsung have since delivered and P-Series users can now enjoy TRIM. Other m/f's (not just the one that most people compare with, but others as well) have employed firmware from Indilinx that supports TRIM; the media who review hardware have congratulated Indilinx on delivering said firmware.

 

What we, as Corsair customers, would like to know is:

 

WHY can other companies deploy the update?

WHY is there a prolonged delay?

WHY are you not giving us a deadline (even if it slips) for delivery?

WHY do you isolate your customers and become confrontational by closing threads and repeatedly say that it will ready when it's ready?

WHY are we not hearing what Indilinx has to say about this problem?

WHY is there no policy on updates that can have a limiting effect on the efficiency of our hardware?

WHY do we hear about new drives being released from other sources but not from Corsair and what is the company's policy on supplying updates to older hardware? For example, when does it become obsolete and no further support will be given?

 

The list can go on .... but the simple answer to all of those questions is a complete and total breakdown of communication between a company and its customers. Corsair customers have been patient, they have been forgiving and understanding - but this is quickly coming to a close and the outcome can swing one of two ways:

 

Either Corsair delivers the firmware update or an explanation as to why it is being delayed with some kind of timeframe in which it can be expected - or it loses customers and their competitors will gain from their loss.

 

There has to be closure on this issue soon - I know it is frustrating and, as has been stated, embarrassing for Corsair; or more to the point for their staff who have to take the blunt end of the flak, but at the end of the day the ball is firmly in their court.

 

 

Multiple threads would not be opened on the same subject if there was ONE thread that was updated frequently to keep users appraised of the situation.

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Yes I read that and it says nothing! That post first went up on the 24th January and it said nothing then. It doesn't answer the questions people have been asking.

 

AND ... there is still nothing on the Corsair main site about the new SSD drives, yet they are actually in stock and on sale at distributors. Still nothing on a policy for updates and when a drive becomes obsolete; which is probably what will happen to the X-Series before an update is released.

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I don't want to start a flame war so I'll just post a quick response and move along, but I'm happy to continue to discuss specific issues. It's OK that we may disgree.

 

Yes I read that and it says nothing! That post first went up on the 24th January and it said nothing then.

 

It does give a current update that there is no information, no timetable, and no updates. That is quite a lot of information, just not the information you want.

 

It doesn't answer the questions people have been asking.

 

That should be covered in the other threads where the questions were raised. I appreciate that sticky is focused on one topic. I subscribed to it and hopefully the update that announces the firmware availablility will be a response (hint, hint) so I receive an e-mail notification.

 

AND ... there is still nothing on the Corsair main site about the new SSD drives, yet they are actually in stock and on sale at distributors. Still nothing on a policy for updates and when a drive becomes obsolete; which is probably what will happen to the X-Series before an update is released.

 

Again, there are other threads for those issues that are still open and that isn't the topic of this thread. While I don't agree with some of the moderation of this forum, it doesn't surprise me that threads are closed as they turn into free-for-all rants. If folks would stay on topic the forum would be a better resource and the moderators wouldn't have to make judgement calls.

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What we, as Corsair customers, would like to know is:

 

WHY can other companies deploy the update?

I can't speak for other companies so I cannot answer this. What I can tell you is that there are literally HUNDREDS, likely THOUSANDS of threads with THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of posts where customers are having all the bad issues we've discussed related to this subject. We are not going to take this route. This is in the customer's best interest.

WHY is there a prolonged delay?
Answered dozens of times. The update utility is not sufficiently reliable.

WHY are you not giving us a deadline (even if it slips) for delivery?
Due to the nature of the problem, deadlines are difficult to even guess at. So, rather than repeatedly change deadlines, we'll announce it when it is ready.

WHY do you isolate your customers and become confrontational by closing threads and repeatedly say that it will ready when it's ready?
Because the threads have become magnets for rules violations. Threads that do not violate the rules are not closed or edited. We take forum rules 6 and 7 very seriously. Once a thread deteriorates to a point that we are repeatedly pruning profanities and other violations, it is closed. This enforcement will continue.

WHY are we not hearing what Indilinx has to say about this problem?
I cannot answer that. Ask Indilinx.

WHY is there no policy on updates that can have a limiting effect on the efficiency of our hardware?
We do have a policy. That same policy applies to offering updates that can kill your hardware. It will be released when it's ready.

WHY do we hear about new drives being released from other sources but not from Corsair and what is the company's policy on supplying updates to older hardware? For example, when does it become obsolete and no further support will be given?
We will continue to support our products according to the warranty policy for SSDs.

 

Additionally, the issues we are dealing with are covered by NDA. Unless this changes, there will be no discussion of the specific issues.

 

The update will be released when it is ready. Thank you again for your patience and for choosing Corsair.

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@ Yellowbeard

 

I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions; unfortunately there are no 'real' answers in your reply other than what has been said time and again. I understand and appreciate the difficulty that you (and others) as employees of Corsair face and that often you would probably like to reply but cannot because your hands are tied.

 

Like many, many other users on this forum I have been patient beyond the test of reasonableness with regards this issue and most of the frustration and angst comes from hitting a brick wall when it comes to information.

 

It is not my place to ask Indilinx why there is a hold up - that is Corsair's responsibility as they chose to work with Indilinx.

 

I can understand your issue with people who resort to profanities within a thread and how you are required to deal with those issues and people.

 

Can you point to the policy that you have on updates? I'm not sure whether you are aware of the laws in the UK but warranties are added extra's and cannot supercede the Sale Of Goods Act or consumer rights - which basically states that the consumer can protest the quality of goods up to a period of six years after purchase, regardless of what any warranty states.

 

As for deadlines - there must be some idea in some camp as to when these issues can be estimated to be resolved. Again, I can understand if this were a new issue that has only just surfaced, but this has been in progress for months now. If there is no light at the end of the tunnel then it strikes of hopelessness.

 

I have been on numerous SSD distributors sites and looked at their support forums. There are a 'number' of people (not thousands) who have had problems with the update - many that I have read have been caused by the end users own stupidity for not following the directions to the letter. If there were so many then the update would have been pulled long since; the fact that it hasn't speaks volumes.

 

As with any firmware update there will be issues as not every single configuration by be accounted for. It can be likened to 'infinity diversity in infinite combinations' and if that is the premis that is being worked from then we will never see an update utility.

 

I don't like being confrontational, but when every avenue you explore leads to a dead end the frustration is demoralising. Corsair is a good company and has the respect of a lot of customers, so this debacle is damaging beyond imagination. Whenever I look at the forum I see a small number of registered users active on the forums but a lot of guests/visitors - I cannot imagine what they think of this, but I can guess they will think twice about purchasing a Corsair product and that I find very sad and disappointing.

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It is not my place to ask Indilinx why there is a hold up - that is Corsair's responsibility as they chose to work with Indilinx.

I already explained we are covered by NDA. Of course we are in constant contact with them but are limited in what we can say. So, if you want more information, you'll have to get it from them.

 

@ Yellowbeard

 

I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions; unfortunately there are no 'real' answers in your reply other than what has been said time and again.

That's the drawback here. I have taken time to give you even more information and you have taken even more time for replies. Yet, now what I have given is still not good enough apparently and we end up right back where we started.

 

http://forum.corsair.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84600

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The firmware update utility could be provided as a beta product on an "as-is" basis to anyone that requests it specifically by filling out a "beta tester" form (in other words available by request to anyone who's willing to play with it). Or, you should have a program in place to accept customer's drives and update firmware on them, using a good known combination of hardware to do so... for a reasonable shipping fee.
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Some nice info from another article i found, care to comment this...

 

Quotes (i removed the names of the different manufac....)

 

"Indilinx is still a very small company so it relies on its customers to help with validation, testing and even provide feedback for firmware development. As far as I can tell, every single Indilinx customer gets the same firmware revisions. Some vendors choose to rename the firmware revisions, while others do not. *** calls its latest stable firmware 1.30, while ***, *** and *** call it 1571."

 

and then we have this one..

 

"Of all the Indilinxites, *** and *** work closest with the controller manufacturer. In exchange for their help in manufacturing and validation, *** and *** also get access to the latest firmwares earlier than the rest of the manufacturers. Ultimately all manufacturers will get access to the same firmware, it just takes longer if you’re not *** or ***."

 

Based on all the tests i have seen on the net on SSD´s and my chance to try some diff versions at work i come to the conlcusion that its just the outside of the SSD´s that are different..every SSD with an Indilinx controller is the same on the inside.. prove me wrong on this one pls.

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Again I appreciate you taking the time to reply Yellowbeard - now that we know that you are governed by NDA's it is understandable that you are being gagged and most likely can't say what you would like to say, which - unfortunately - brings us to an impasse. It's a catch 22 situation where no amount of questions will result in anything close to the desired answers.

 

I find it surprising that in the article linked it states that the firmware has only been released to two companies (as of the date 4th Feb) and Corsair is not one of them. Of the two companies mentioned I have been to their support forums and while there are 'some' people facing issues, again they do not appear in great numbers. In fact no more than there are on this forum who are having issues with the Samsung firmware update.

 

Romeo: I've already suggested such a deployment in as much as the firmware and update could be distributed by PM to those people whose configurations are not in conflict with the update utility. I also suggested that anyone who is willing to help in this manner be given a safety net of an RMA if things go badly. Yes this takes up time and yes it can cost Corsair some dollars, but it will go a long way to testing and providing feedback on the ultility. I'm not advocating releasing this en-mass, but in a controlled way that minimises risks to both sides. In a way it can be looked upon as a compromise.

 

There will be some who will complain that they haven't been included, but in the end those who do participate will be providing feedback that could hurry the full deployment. If some do get their hands on the update who are not included in the test and they brick their drive/s then tough on them - you don't play with fire if you don't want to get burned.

 

It is a suggestion only and one which I believe will be of great benefit to everyone.

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Ok this is boring me to tears of rage.

 

Yellowbeard, is Corsair going to allow this contant slanging of its company without APPROPRIATELY dealing with the problems and issues?

 

 

 

Just tell us what is happening and I am sure the gathering mob will disperse.

 

You can try to handle this with moderation and patience if you like, but it won't work. INFORMATION is what is needed. I N F O R M A T I O N.

 

You have it. We all know you have it. It may not be what we want to hear, but we want to hear it anyway. And we want to hear it now.

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  • Corsair Employees

Jimmo

This Information as you stated; has already been stated there is no update at the moment to release. The only way to get the latest firmware is to purchase a new drive. We are working with several controller manufacturers on a verity of different projects one of which is Indolinx and firmware updates for X-Series drives and the update utility is buggy at best and not ready for release in our opinion. This can be verified by searching other SSD manufacturers sites that use the same controller and you will see long threads more than 100 posts long in some cases since they released the update with users having problems. This may change but at the moment that is our position.

 

Davyc

You have been a help to other users and we do thank you for that, but this is a support only forum and we have stated what we can about this subject. If you feel there is an issue that requires you to consult with your reseller about the policy in your country that is between the reseller and you; we would not be able to comment one way or the other. That would not be a Technical support concern sorry! I would have to direct you to our customer service rmaservice@corsairmemory.com or call them at 510-657-8747 Ext "0".

 

However, I must mention again these drives were developed before the release of Windows 7 and TRIM support for Windows 7 is nice to have but not available on this drive until firmware version 2.0. Or a drive that was manufactured after on or about November of 2009. And that was never promised in the pre-release of this product. It was supposed to support firmware updates but the utility to do that is and has been the issue which remains unresolved.

This is a feature for one O.S. and only this O.S. ATM! If you use any other O.S. it is not an issue at all. This does not prevent the drive from functioning in fact it is still one of the faster drives on the market there is no reason to return a drive because of the firmware version. Only if the drive has a failure.

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Although using a web-etailer to purchase, I spoke to a person when I ordered my SSD and asked specific questions about upgradeability and dates on TRIM support. The dealer told me that my X128 was upgreadable and TRIM would follow once Win7 was released - because they had been told this by Corsair.

 

Someone in Corsair set the expectations with the dealer who set the expectations with me. Now all I have is finger pointing between Corsair RMA and the dealer as to whose problem it is.

 

Once again I ask - why can't Corsair either offer a recall of these old drives for upgrade or enable their dealers to upgrade them (with a specific hardware setup that us friendly to the update utility)? Your beancounters will squirm as will those of your dealers but the loss of business you are facing (both current and future business) has to be taken into account.

 

Personally, I have gone from being a fan and advocate of Corsair to something much less over this issue. I work for a very large IT organisation and our internal discussion forums comment on the contents of this forum - you are being watched. I know of more than twenty cases where Corsair has not been the SSD of choice for a colleague purchase - because of this forum. Personally, I system build in my spare time and you have not been the choice of several of my latest projects and are hanging by a thread for the large order I about to fulfil (30 drives by mid-March).

 

Your hands are tied - no one is telling you anything and you are taking the heat from a frustrated user base. Your frustration with us is understandable. The fact that we are still bothering to comment is an indication we are trying to help you and we still care. This will probably be my last post which should tell you I am ceasing to care any more.

 

Your managers need to seriously escalate this to get the proper executive attention.

 

Good luck:!:

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  • Corsair Employees
Someone in Corsair set the expectations with the dealer who set the expectations with me. Now all I have is finger pointing between Corsair RMA and the dealer as to whose problem it is.

 

A: I have already answered that and I am sorry the reseller told you that but there is not much I can say expect talk to the reseller.

Once again I ask - why can't Corsair either offer a recall of these old drives for upgrade or enable their dealers to upgrade them (with a specific hardware setup that us friendly to the update utility)? Your bean counters will squirm as will those of your dealers but the loss of business you are facing (both current and future business) has to be taken into account.

A: I am already answered that more than once, please don't ask again.

This does not prevent the drive from functioning in fact it is still one of the faster drives on the market there is no reason to return a drive because of the firmware version. Only if the drive has a failure.
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If folks would stay on topic the forum would be a better resource and the moderators wouldn't have to make judgement calls.
Bingo.

 

 

The firmware update utility could be provided as a beta product on an "as-is" basis to anyone that requests it specifically by filling out a "beta tester" form (in other words available by request to anyone who's willing to play with it).
All I'll say is that you and others who have suggested this are assuming too much about multiple variables. Yes, I know this statement is overly cryptic :) Put another way: approach it like you would an enigma. (From Wikipedia: An enigma is a type of riddle generally expressed in metaphorical or allegorical language that requires ingenuity and careful thinking for its solution.)
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Romeo: I've already suggested such a deployment in as much as the firmware and update could be distributed by PM to those people whose configurations are not in conflict with the update utility. I also suggested that anyone who is willing to help in this manner be given a safety net of an RMA if things go badly. Yes this takes up time and yes it can cost Corsair some dollars, but it will go a long way to testing and providing feedback on the ultility. I'm not advocating releasing this en-mass, but in a controlled way that minimises risks to both sides. In a way it can be looked upon as a compromise.

 

There will be some who will complain that they haven't been included, but in the end those who do participate will be providing feedback that could hurry the full deployment. If some do get their hands on the update who are not included in the test and they brick their drive/s then tough on them - you don't play with fire if you don't want to get burned.

 

It is a suggestion only and one which I believe will be of great benefit to everyone.

 

Count me in im willing to sign any NDA and give it a spin and have everything backed up - hit me :)

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I have decided to stay on the sidelines in this thread. I have stated my opinion on this topic in other threads and have asked for input for the decession as to which drives I will be purchasing. I believe SSD is the way of the future and the article confirmed the information that I had determined through my own research. TRIM is essential; Intel and Indilinx are the two top controllers with Samsung coming in a distanct third. I will choose from Intel or Indilinx. Prior to this whole debacle the choice was simple, Corsair was my go to company. Now this is not so. I will research and choice this weekend and make my purchase. It depends on what the deals are that I find and from which resellers I most trust. It is too bad that such a wonderful product has caused Corsair's reputation to be "dinged" so badly....

 

If I were in a postion at Corsair I would be very much questioning why two companies get preferential treatment over Corsair, especially when coming into this new technology Corsair would have been concidered the highest respected of the three. Now the new products that are being released are both using the Indilinx controller (from what I have read in multiple articles). This again confirms that Corsair also believes that it is a better choice and one would think it would give Corsair a bit more of a say or at least a higher power position with indilinx.

 

Anyway, I probably will not be posting too much more in these forums. It is far too frustrating and life is just too short.

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Anyway, I probably will not be posting too much more in these forums. It is far too frustrating and life is just too short.

 

Agreed Randy .... time to move on. Corsair have had their chance, missed numerous opportunities to be more cooperative instead of defensive and confrontational. There is no sign of compromise, no sign of any genuine attempt to resolve this issue.

 

The only signs are that people are, in a roundabout way, being told to shut up, that questions asked have already been answered (moot point) and now people are being banned for having an opinion. !!!BAD!!!

 

I've removed my X-64 from my computer, taken a hammer to it and binned it; call it frustration of the nth degree. I'm looking at other m/f's products now and will decide where to lay my hat of loyalty when I have reached a decision.

 

I have, regrettably, joined the ranks of the discontented, disheartened and forgotten. If you have an X-Series drive don't hold your breath for a firmware update - the X-Series will become a legacy drive soon and support will be withdrawn; that, at least from my point of view, is what Corsair seem to have in mind. Adios!

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