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TWIN3X2048-1800C7DFIN problem


R1G3LXVII

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Hello,

 

The problem I'm having here with my TWIN3X2048-1800C7DFIN kit it's a bit odd: the only way I can get my system to be stable is to set the CAS Latency to 8 instead of the spec-related 7. There's no way on Earth to complete a 32m superpi or Orthos in Blend mode with a Cas latency of 7, I've tried everything, seems like my P5E3 Premium doesn't like the Cas latency of 7 at all. Now, how is it possible? I've found an old topic ( http://www.asktheramguy.com/v3/showthread.php?t=67273 ) where a guy (italian like me:laughing:) was having almost the same exact problem, almost same motherboard, but he could at least (and at last) be able to use Cas 7 and complete those tests. There's one thing to say, atm I'm running my C2D E8400 at 450x9 1.400V with mem 8-7-7-20 1T 2.0V stable and I was able to complete 2 instances of 32M SuperPI and hours of Orthos. I didn't try a lower FSB yet, for example 400x8 with Cas 7, but I'm pretty sure it will not work. Any idea of why my P5E3 Premium refuses to accept a Cas latency of 7? The modules are both installed in the black slots - dual-channel mode enabled.

 

I O/C Tuner = Manual

CPU Ratio Control = Manual

Ratio CMOS Setting = 9

FBS Strap to North Bridge = AUTO

FBS Frequency = 450

PCIE Frequency = 100

DRAM Frequency = DDR3-1801MHz

DRAM Command Rate = 1T

DRAM Timing Control = Manual

CAS# Latency = 8

RAS# to CAS# Relay = 7

RAS# Precharge = 7

RAS# Active Time = 20

RAS# to RAS# Delay = Auto

Row Refresh Cycle Time = Auto

Write Recovery Time = Auto

Read to Precharge Time = Auto

Write Recovery Time = Auto

Read to Precharge Time = Auto

Read to Write Delay (S/D) = Auto

Write to Read Delay (S) = Auto

Write to Read Delay (D) = Auto

Read to Read Delay (S) = Auto

Read to Read Delay (D) = Auto

Write to Write Delay (S) = Auto

Write to Write Delay (D) = Auto

DRAM Static Read Control = Disabled

DRAM Synamic Write Control = Disabled

 

CPU Voltage = 1.400

CPU PLL Voltage = 1.60

FBS Termination Voltage = Auto

DRAM Voltage = 2.00

North Bridge Voltage = 1.61

South Bridge Voltage = 1.05

 

Thanks :):

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When you updated your BIOS did you load setup defaults and save setup defaults? Also, when you update the BIOS, do NOT load old saved profiles. Create new profiles.

 

You need the FSB to be at least 450Mhz so don't lower it to 400Mhz. 450 X 2 = 1800Mhz but I suspect you already know this. Is there a reason why you have your Northbridge voltage so high? Are you running with 2 or 4 sticks? You have a Northbridge voltage set for 500+ FSB and/or a four DRAM slot population. I would test with 2T instead of 1T on that board.

 

Download Memtest86+ V2.10 from--->

Download CPU-z from-->

Enter your BIOS, load setup defaults, save setup defaults and set to these values.

AI Tweaker

Ai Overclock Tuner: Manual
CPU Ratio Setting: 9
FSB Strap to North Bridge: 266
FSB Frequency: 450
PCIE Frequency: 100
DRAM Frequency: DDR3-1800Mhz
DRAM Command Rate: 2T

Dram Skew Control All kept on Auto

DRAM Timing Control: Manual

CAS# Latency: 7
RAS# to CAS# Latency: 7
RAS# to PRE Time: 7
RAS# ACT Time: 20
RAS# to RAS# Delay: Auto
REF Cycle Time: 88
WRITE Recovery Time: Auto
READ to PRE Time: Auto

DRAM Static Read Control: Disabled
DRAM Dynamic Write Control: Disabled
Ai Clock Twister: Auto
Ai Transaction Booster: Auto

Pull-in Of channel A Phase 1: Disabled
Pull-in Of channel A Phase 2: Disabled
Pull-in Of channel B Phase 1: Disabled
Pull-in Of channel B Phase 2: Disabled

Voltage Settings
CPU Voltage: Auto
CPU GTL Voltage Reference (0/2): Auto
CPU GTL Voltage Reference (1/3): Auto
CPU PLL Voltage: 1.6v
FSB Termination Voltage: 1.3v
DRAM Voltage: 2.0v
NB Voltage: 1.5v
NB GTL Voltage Reference: Auto
SB Voltage: Auto
Clock Over-Charging Voltage: Auto

Load-Line Calibration: Auto
CPU Spread Spectrum: Disabled
PCIE Spread Spectrum: Disabled

Advanced > CPU Configuration
CPU Ratio Setting: 9.0
C1E Support: Enabled
CPU TM Function: Enabled
Vanderpool Technology: Disabled
Execute Disable Bit: Disabled
Max CPUID Value Limit: Disabled

Boot to the memtest CD and test for two full passes. Then, if stable, enter Windows and post your CPU-z CPU/Memory and SPD tabs in screenshots.

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When you updated your BIOS did you load setup defaults and save setup defaults? Also, when you update the BIOS, do NOT load old saved profiles. Create new profiles.

 

You need the FSB to be at least 450Mhz so don't lower it to 400Mhz. 450 X 2 = 1800Mhz but I suspect you already know this. Is there a reason why you have your Northbridge voltage so high? Are you running with 2 or 4 sticks? You have a Northbridge voltage set for 500+ FSB and/or a four DRAM slot population. I would test with 2T instead of 1T on that board.

 

Download Memtest86+ V2.10 from--->

Download CPU-z from-->

Enter your BIOS, load setup defaults, save setup defaults and set to these values.

AI Tweaker

Ai Overclock Tuner: Manual
CPU Ratio Setting: 9
FSB Strap to North Bridge: 266
FSB Frequency: 450
PCIE Frequency: 100
DRAM Frequency: DDR3-1800Mhz
DRAM Command Rate: 2T

Dram Skew Control All kept on Auto

DRAM Timing Control: Manual

CAS# Latency: 7
RAS# to CAS# Latency: 7
RAS# to PRE Time: 7
RAS# ACT Time: 20
RAS# to RAS# Delay: Auto
REF Cycle Time: 88
WRITE Recovery Time: Auto
READ to PRE Time: Auto

DRAM Static Read Control: Disabled
DRAM Dynamic Write Control: Disabled
Ai Clock Twister: Auto
Ai Transaction Booster: Auto

Pull-in Of channel A Phase 1: Disabled
Pull-in Of channel A Phase 2: Disabled
Pull-in Of channel B Phase 1: Disabled
Pull-in Of channel B Phase 2: Disabled

Voltage Settings
CPU Voltage: Auto
CPU GTL Voltage Reference (0/2): Auto
CPU GTL Voltage Reference (1/3): Auto
CPU PLL Voltage: 1.6v
FSB Termination Voltage: 1.3v
DRAM Voltage: 2.0v
NB Voltage: 1.5v
NB GTL Voltage Reference: Auto
SB Voltage: Auto
Clock Over-Charging Voltage: Auto

Load-Line Calibration: Auto
CPU Spread Spectrum: Disabled
PCIE Spread Spectrum: Disabled

Advanced > CPU Configuration
CPU Ratio Setting: 9.0
C1E Support: Enabled
CPU TM Function: Enabled
Vanderpool Technology: Disabled
Execute Disable Bit: Disabled
Max CPUID Value Limit: Disabled

Boot to the memtest CD and test for two full passes. Then, if stable, enter Windows and post your CPU-z CPU/Memory and SPD tabs in screenshots.

 

1. Yes, I've loaded setup defaults and done the Save/Exit thing. Never created a profile. :):

 

2. OMG! Thought that was safe...thanks for the advice, I will set it to 1.5 like you suggested. I'll also try the cmd rate of 2T.

 

3. Are you sure to set the cpu vcore to Auto? It would result in about 1.300v according to cpu-z, and that's not enough for 4ghz, tested it already.:):

 

4. Will be done.:):

 

Thank you!

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3. Are you sure to set the cpu vcore to Auto? It would result in about 1.300v according to cpu-z, and that's not enough for 4ghz, tested it already.:)

 

Set the Vcore to what you have found necessary. I found 1.34v for your overclock though and normally Auto is enough. Do you really need 1.4V?

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Set the Vcore to what you have found necessary. I found 1.34v for your overclock though and normally Auto is enough. Do you really need 1.4V?

 

Ok, I'll set the Vcore to Auto and see what happens. Normally for 4ghz my cpu needs about 1.350v (cpu-z), which I can achieve only by setting a Vcore higher than 1.350v from the Bios (only by then cpu-z will show about 1.350, for example if I set 1.350 in the Bios cpu-z will show about 1.320 and so on). If I set the Vcore to Auto it will result in about 1.290....not enough for 4ghz as I said before.:sigh!:

I tried the settings you suggested me without any luck, but I'm pretty sure that it's only related to the Cas latency, because if I set it to 8 the errors won't show up. It's unbelievable that I cannot get this system stable with a Cas latency of 7.:(:

What would you suggest to do at this point? :confused:

 

Ah, here's the pic:

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/9931/superpierrorru3.th.jpg

 

Left superpi showed up the error while the other was still running...anyway...system is unstable.:sigh!:

 

P.S.

don't pay too much attention to the temps, I know they're somewhat HIGH...but it's not the cause of the instability. As I said before, with Cas latency 8, 4ghz OC and the same infernal temps...superpi and orthos are both stable!

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You can RMA the DRAM. I would test the DRAM sticks singly to see if both do not singly work at CL7. If both do not singly, then very likely you have a board issue as getting two C7 sticks that both do not work at C8 is unlikely. Set your CPU voltage to what works on your system. I perform pencil mods for Vdrop and Loadline Calibration for Vdroop. Then I set to Auto.

 

Are you running with Vista64? SuperPi has issues with Vista64. The temps are warm but not alarming. I would not run Linpack with those temps though.

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You can RMA the DRAM. I would test the DRAM sticks singly to see if both do not singly work at CL7. If both do not singly, then very likely you have a board issue as getting two C7 sticks that both do not work at C8 is unlikely. Set your CPU voltage to what works on your system. I perform pencil mods for Vdrop and Loadline Calibration for Vdroop. Then I set to Auto.

 

Are you running with Vista64? SuperPi has issues with Vista64. The temps are warm but not alarming. I would not run Linpack with those temps though.

 

Maybe you meant C7? One thing: even without OC but still with CL7 the system is unstable. So I definitely think it's a Cas Latency related issue.

Yes, I use Vista64. But what about the fact that there are no probs with that damn CL8? :laughing:

Tomorrow I'll try one stick at a time and see what happens. Btw those temps are really odd, simply because I have an IFX-14 heatsink and a Noctua NF-P12 fan all inside THAT case...and I'm also pretty sure to have mounted the whole thing correctly. That definitely needs to be checked though, don't you agree? :biggrin: I've never seen such temps on a E8400 before. The other day when I was testing with IntelBurnTest the temps reached 78°C!

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Maybe you meant C7? One thing: even without OC but still with CL7 the system is unstable. So I definitely think it's a Cas Latency related issue.

Yes, I use Vista64. But what about the fact that there are no probs with that damn CL8? :laughing:

Tomorrow I'll try one stick at a time and see what happens. Btw those temps are really odd, simply because I have an IFX-14 heatsink and a Noctua NF-P12 fan all inside THAT case...and I'm also pretty sure to have mounted the whole thing correctly. That definitely needs to be checked though, don't you agree? :biggrin: I've never seen such temps on a E8400 before. The other day when I was testing with IntelBurnTest the temps reached 78°C!

 

My mistake. CL7. You need the overclock. You will not find stability without the overclock. The CPU MUST be running at least as fast as the DRAM and so with 1800Mhz on the DRAM, you must be running, at a minimum, a 450Mhz FSB. Those temps are pretty much correct. I run an 8500 (E0) @ 4.3Ghz and Linpack gives me ~70C. With an 8400 (C0) @ 4.0Ghz Linpack gave me ~65C and I have a Thermalright Ultra Xtreme 120 with 2 120mm fans. Vista64 and SuperPi error out. Use Memtest to assure stabilty, not a Windows OS testing program.

 

I advise you (again and last time :p: ). You need to Memtest the sticks singly with a 450Mhz FSB and the DRAM set at 7-7-7-20 2.0V.

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My mistake. CL7. You need the overclock. You will not find stability without the overclock. The CPU MUST be running at least as fast as the DRAM and so with 1800Mhz on the DRAM, you must be running, at a minimum, a 450Mhz FSB. Those temps are pretty much correct. I run an 8500 (E0) @ 4.3Ghz and Linpack gives me ~70C. With an 8400 (C0) @ 4.0Ghz Linpack gave me ~65C and I have a Thermalright Ultra Xtreme 120 with 2 120mm fans. Vista64 and SuperPi error out. Use Memtest to assure stabilty, not a Windows OS testing program.

 

I advise you (again and last time :p: ). You need to Memtest the sticks singly with a 450Mhz FSB and the DRAM set at 7-7-7-20 2.0V.

 

Alright, I'm going to test the sticks singly with Memtest at 7-7-7-20 2.0V.:biggrin:

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Bingo... there's one faulty module. Memtest gives an error with some numbers etc. in a red line, so we can say that the module is broken, right? The other module ran the test flawlessly for an hour (then I stopped). I used the first black slot (DIMM_A2) for the test. Now it is clear that I have to RMA the kit, right? Do I need to contact the reseller where I bought the kit?

 

Thank you very much for your support.

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Bingo... there's one faulty module. Memtest gives an error with some numbers etc. in a red line, so we can say that the module is broken, right? The other module ran the test flawlessly for an hour (then I stopped). I used the first black slot (DIMM_A2) for the test. Now it is clear that I have to RMA the kit, right? Do I need to contact the reseller where I bought the kit?

 

Thank you very much for your support.

 

As Wired said, the reseller is the first line of return. You're very welcome. :):

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Hello again:):, I need a little advice: I'm going to order another TWIN3X2048-1800C7DFIN kit for a total of 4GB (once the other kit will be replaced). Do you think it's a good idea to have 4 sticks of the same ram to obtain 4GB for my system, or it would be a better choice the 2x2GB TW3X4G1800C8DF (8-8-8-24) kit for stability and/or OC performance?

 

Thanks :):

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Derek? What's your opinion on this? I want 4GB and I'm not sure if another TWIN3X2048-1800C7DFIN kit would be the best choice, or I should buy the TW3X4G1800C8DF kit (or even a different one, just tell me what would you suggest). Please note that I don't need 8GB for now or in the near future, when it'll happen I think I'll get a future revision of Nehalem(32nm) and same with X58 chipset.

 

Btw, I did the Linpack test once again:

 

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6149/linpackqv9.th.jpg

 

as you can see, no errors found. I ran the test using 100% of the available memory.

Now, what's your conclusion about this? Ram is still broken anyway according to Memtest?

 

Thanks

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Derek? What's your opinion on this? I want 4GB and I'm not sure if another TWIN3X2048-1800C7DFIN kit would be the best choice, or I should buy the TW3X4G1800C8DF kit (or even a different one, just tell me what would you suggest). Please note that I don't need 8GB for now or in the near future, when it'll happen I think I'll get a future revision of Nehalem(32nm) and same with X58 chipset.

 

Btw, I did the Linpack test once again:

 

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6149/linpackqv9.th.jpg

 

as you can see, no errors found. I ran the test using 100% of the available memory.

Now, what's your conclusion about this? Ram is still broken anyway according to Memtest?

 

Thanks

 

Hi

 

Your results from IBT indicate no problem with your RAM. But I think Memtest is more definitive than Linpack or Prime95 when it comes to testing your RAM. Personally I prefer to use Prime95 than IBT as I have run 180 passes of IBT without any problems but when I run Prime95 blend I have had failures in ~ 3hrs.

 

I have the 4gb C8 kit your thinking about and I have not been to get them stable. I have posted a thread if you want to have a look.

 

By what I have read about your problem it seems as though your RAM is faulty assuming you have set all the correct settings in your BIOS. Also from what I have read 2x2gb is easier to stabilize than 4x1gb so maybe trying out the C8's would be a better idea.

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Hi

 

Your results from IBT indicate no problem with your RAM. But I think Memtest is more definitive than Linpack or Prime95 when it comes to testing your RAM. Personally I prefer to use Prime95 than IBT as I have run 180 passes of IBT without any problems but when I run Prime95 blend I have had failures in ~ 3hrs.

 

I have the 4gb C8 kit your thinking about and I have not been to get them stable. I have posted a thread if you want to have a look.

 

By what I have read about your problem it seems as though your RAM is faulty assuming you have set all the correct settings in your BIOS. Also from what I have read 2x2gb is easier to stabilize than 4x1gb so maybe trying out the C8's would be a better idea.

 

It's not an easy thing to stabilize a four DRAM slot population. It gets harder with the capacity as well, but even so, there's no guarantee for a stable population.

 

Hello,

Yes, Linpack from what I've read is more for cpu/vcore stability than ram's. The fact that you haven't found stability yet with the 2x2gb C8 kit surprises me a little bit...will I wouldn't find stability either? Really, I'm not gonna buy such an expensive kit if I am not sure it will work as it should. I think I'll go for another C7DFIN kit and see what happens. I know that there's more possibility of instability with the 4x1 sticks configuration than the 2x2 configuration, but I'll give it just a try. Once my first kit will be replaced I'll make all the necessary test to insure stability to my system. All I want it's just DRAM that works at 100% and a system not crashing anymore due to bad sticks. Who cares if at the end I have to use C8 instead of C7 for stabilize it. Btw, can you give me the link of the thread?

 

Many thanks for your help.:):

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Ok, I've got another TWIN3X2048-1800C7DFIN kit and tested the sticks singly and this time no errors were found! I did 3 passes of Memtest per stick and ran 2 instances of SuperPI 32M...all just perfect. :): Tested with 450MHz FSB with mem at 7-7-7-20 2.0V. Now I just want the other kit to be replaced with a good one like this. :p:
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Ok, I've got another TWIN3X2048-1800C7DFIN kit and tested the sticks singly and this time no errors were found! I did 3 passes of Memtest per stick and ran 2 instances of SuperPI 32M...all just perfect. :): Tested with 450MHz FSB with mem at 7-7-7-20 2.0V. Now I just want the other kit to be replaced with a good one like this. :p:
Very nice clocks indeed. Are you hoping to make 1800 7-7-7-20 with all four sticks? That's pretty doubtful to do and have long term stability. I find 1500 with 4 X 1600C7 modules and my Rampage Extreme. I can benchmark fine with 1600 X 4 but it will not give me a stable system 24/7.
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Very nice clocks indeed. Are you hoping to make 1800 7-7-7-20 with all four sticks? That's pretty doubtful to do and have long term stability. I find 1500 with 4 X 1600C7 modules and my Rampage Extreme. I can benchmark fine with 1600 X 4 but it will not give me a stable system 24/7.

 

Yeah I know, there're almost no chances to be stable at 1800 7-7-7-20 with 4 sticks but who knows... hopefully at least with 8-8-8-24, just like the 4gb kit. Btw, what's more important, ram speed or timings? The fist one I guess. For example what's better, 1700 7-7-7-20 or 1800 8-8-8-24? Also, does Memtest show up errors even when the system is unstable (due to bad ram settings), or just when there's a defective module(s)?

 

Many thanks. :):

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Yeah I know, there're almost no chances to be stable at 1800 7-7-7-20 with 4 sticks but who knows... hopefully at least with 8-8-8-24, just like the 4gb kit. Btw, what's more important, ram speed or timings? The fist one I guess. For example what's better, 1700 7-7-7-20 or 1800 8-8-8-24? Also, does Memtest show up errors even when the system is unstable (due to bad ram settings), or just when there's a defective module(s)?

 

Many thanks. :):

 

With the Intel Legacy Products (Pre i7) the pure bandwidth is more important than the timings. This is due to the on motherboard memory controller. It follows that the distance is the greatest issue. Keep in mind that you can set performance values differently when applying different timings. PL8 with CL7 and PL7 with CL8 for example.

 

Regarding instability. You can find Memtest shows Memory stability and Prime95/Linpack shows CPU/Memory stability and STILL find an instable system due to the memory controller. I have found this many times. Setting the MCH Skew and raising the NB voltage is the way to deal with a system that is showing stability on both Memtest and CPU Stress tests and yet instability in system use. Memtest will show defective DRAM errors and MCH --> DRAM errors, but misses DRAM --> MCH issues which are MCH errors.

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With the Intel Legacy Products (Pre i7) the pure bandwidth is more important than the timings. This is due to the on motherboard memory controller. It follows that the distance is the greatest issue. Keep in mind that you can set performance values differently when applying different timings. PL8 with CL7 and PL7 with CL8 for example.

 

Regarding instability. You can find Memtest shows Memory stability and Prime95/Linpack shows CPU/Memory stability and STILL find an instable system due to the memory controller. I have found this many times. Setting the MCH Skew and raising the NB voltage is the way to deal with a system that is showing stability on both Memtest and CPU Stress tests and yet instability in system use. Memtest will show defective DRAM errors and MCH --> DRAM errors, but misses DRAM --> MCH issues which are MCH errors.

 

Ok, so that's a thing I will verify in the future. I see you know a lot of this stuff, much more than I do. I am still experiencing with OC and learning step by step. Again, thank you very much for your help and clarifications.:):

 

PS.: What's PL stands for?

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Hello,

Yes, Linpack from what I've read is more for cpu/vcore stability than ram's. The fact that you haven't found stability yet with the 2x2gb C8 kit surprises me a little bit...will I wouldn't find stability either? Really, I'm not gonna buy such an expensive kit if I am not sure it will work as it should. I think I'll go for another C7DFIN kit and see what happens. I know that there's more possibility of instability with the 4x1 sticks configuration than the 2x2 configuration, but I'll give it just a try. Once my first kit will be replaced I'll make all the necessary test to insure stability to my system. All I want it's just DRAM that works at 100% and a system not crashing anymore due to bad sticks. Who cares if at the end I have to use C8 instead of C7 for stabilize it. Btw, can you give me the link of the thread?

 

Many thanks for your help.:):

 

I think it's more of a defective part issue than the RAM itself not being able to run at the rated speeds/latencies:

 

http://www.asktheramguy.com/v3/showthread.php?t=75195

 

And awesome news on your 2x1GB 1800 Mhz dimms working - there is hope!

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Ok, so that's a thing I will verify in the future. I see you know a lot of this stuff, much more than I do. I am still experiencing with OC and learning step by step. Again, thank you very much for your help and clarifications.:):

 

PS.: What's PL stands for?

 

He would be referring to Performance Level which you can change in your BIOS to adjust performance. You can check your PL by using Memset in Windows. Basically the lower the PL the better but harder to stabilise may need to tweak NBVolt a fair amount.

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He would be referring to Performance Level which you can change in your BIOS to adjust performance. You can check your PL by using Memset in Windows. Basically the lower the PL the better but harder to stabilise may need to tweak NBVolt a fair amount.

 

Alright, I've been testing to get stable at 4ghz (450x9) mem 7-7-7-20 2.0V 2T and this is what RealTemp was showing... should I believe it? As you can see IBT shows no errors and the same does 2x 32M SuperPI. But those temps really scares the **** out of me!!! :bigeyes:

 

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/1325/ibttempka6.jpg

 

Tell me what you think, plz. :(:

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