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Asus STRIKER EXTREME + 2 pairs of TWIN2X4096-6400C4DHX


-Jim-

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Folks,

 

First I want to thank you for your assistance on my previous project.:D:

 

Now the Mid-Life rebuild of Fridge 3 (That's what he calls this Box...It's a long story best told elsewhere...:p:) is upon me.:o: Originally this Box had:

 

Asus STRIKER EXTREME - nForce 680i (Core 2 Duo/Extreme) PCI-E Socket 775 Motherboard

 

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 (2.40 GHz) Quad-Core Socket 775 Processor

 

2 Sticks of Corsair CM2X2048-6400C5 (4GB) & 2 Sticks of CM2X1024-6400C4 Memory (2GB) = 6 GB Total. (He didn't notice the C4 is 2.1V while the C5 is 1.9V while timing is 4-4-4-12 and 5-5-5-12 respectively. If the Board is left to Auto, isn't the performance degraded mixing these two types?)

 

4 X Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB - SATA 3Gb/s Hard Drives in a Raid 10

 

2 X Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 500GB - SATA 3Gb/s Hard Drives. One in a drawer and one in the case.

 

All in an Antec P190 Advanced Super Mid Tower Black E-ATX 4X5.25 1X3.5 6X3.5INT 1200W Dual PSU

 

Plextor PX-755 DVD Burner & BenQ DW1655 Lightscribe DVD Burner.

 

 

My Buddy took me to Breakfast at my local Whitespot last Saturday (Great Eggs Bennie!), and loaded my car up with the Box, 2 new Video Cards (BFG GeForce 8800GTS 640MB DDR3 each), 4 new Hard Drives (Samsung HD103UJ 1000 GB/7200RPM/32M plus a spare for data back-up), one Scythe Zipang CPU Cooler & 140 mm Fan, 4X2GB (8 Gigs total) Corsair CM2X2048-6400C4DHX DDR2 Ram. (The packaging denotes these as TWIN2X4096-6400C4DHX) He's been collecting all these bits since ~June.

 

So I've been charged with doing the rebuild before Christmas =>putting together the TB drives into a 0+1 Raid, installing the video into SLI, installing the Zipang, etc. => all still on WinXP 64.

 

So here's the problem. After all other hardware is changed, and with a new WinXP64 image (with all updates), with either pair installed (I marked them as they came out of the package so I wouldn't mix 'em up:o:), on Auto setting on the Motherboard, (and the latest Bios => 1801) the Box works fine. If I put in 4 Sticks (in the appropriate Dual Channel Slots = A1, A2, B1, B2) it fails to pass POST, advises a Checksum Error; and if left to complete the Motherboard resets the Bios settings all to default => killing the RAID and failing to find a Bootable Drive. (Where it obviously hangs up.)

 

I've tried to tweak the settings as below with the same results.

 

Striker SLi ready: Disabled

Memory Voltage: 2.1v

TCL: 4

TRCD: 4

TRP: 4

TRAS: 12

Command Per Clock: 2

 

I doubt there is anything wrong with the RAM and expect it's an incorrect setting in Bios somewhere. Besides, there is no Floppy in the Box to run Memtest. (If that's required I can rig one up temporarily but I'd prefer that as a last resort.:(:)

 

My Buddy will be very disapointed if we have to throttle back this Ram to 667 when it's rated @ 800 with all sorts of posts about overclocking (which he doesn't do) well beyond that for the RAM and 6600 Quad.

 

Can you advise where to go from here? Thanks for the assist.

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Try 1.4v - 1.45v on the SPP which is Nvidia's term for memory controller. You likely need a bit of extra voltage over stock to accomodate the load of 4 modules.

 

 

Thanks for the reply but I'm struggling to find something called SPP that allows for voltage adjustment for the memory controler.:confused:

 

In the Extreme Tweaker/Overvoltage section there is Memory Voltage (where I selected 2.1), and then it's further granularized into HT, NB Core, CPU VTT, DDR2 Controler Ref, DDR2 Channel A Ref, DDR2 Channel B Ref Voltage(s).

 

Am I to tweak one of these ? Or is there another section to adjust and I've just not found it?:[pouts:

 

Please advise. Thanks.

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RAM GUY,

 

I searched around about nVidia SPP, and therefore I figured it meant the NorthBridge. I took it off Auto in Bios and put it @ 1.40 Volts. The Box just booted will all 8 Gigs of RAM into Windows so that's a good sign.:biggrin:

So I assume that is what you meant for me to adjust. :sigh!:

 

I hope it remains stable when my Buddy goesa to use it.:o:

 

Any comment on my previous question on the mixing of the old RAM:

 

"2 Sticks of Corsair CM2X2048-6400C5 (4GB) & 2 Sticks of CM2X1024-6400C4 Memory (2GB) = 6 GB Total. (He didn't notice the C4 is 2.1V while the C5 is 1.9V while timing is 4-4-4-12 and 5-5-5-12 respectively. If the Board is left to Auto, isn't the performance degraded mixing these two types?) "

 

As always, thanks for the input.:):

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RAM GUY,

 

Well that didn't work out very well.:(:

 

I was trying to load Pinnacle Studio 12 as the first "test" with all 8 gigs of Ram and after it finished it "hung":eek:

 

I rebooted and Windows hung again at the Desktop. At first I thought it was a failure at install corrupting Windows but when I removed a pair of the RAM it worked again.:roll:

 

I'll tweak the NB Voltage back to Auto and wait for your advice.

 

Please hurry. :):

 

Thanks.

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Set the Northbridge to 1.50v and set the DRAM to 667Mhz.

 

The only memory Corsair supports in a four DRAM slot population is their Quad kits. This does not mean they will not work, just that you have no recourse to RMA Corsair if they do not work. If there are problems with the DRAM modules, they are still supported via lifetime warranty, but that is for physical defects ie. errors in a two stick kit mode. Be sure that you get the same version DRAM. Be careful here, because there can be the same model but different versions that will NOT play nice together. Matched Quad sets are highly binned modules for a four slot population. The Dual sets are tested as a kit, not a Quad.

 

So, in summation, it should work, but you are advised to drop the bandwidth to 667Mhz and raise the given voltages below.

 

Please research this thread:

 

http://www.houseofhelp.com/v3/showthread.php?t=64360&highlight=Unpredictable+results+QUAD2X4096+Gigabyte+X38-DS5

 

There is a limitation of the On Motherboard (Intel) memory controller or On CPU (AMD, Intel i7) and a population of all four banks at the full speed of a two bank run. This limitation is across the board with both AMD and Intel chipset based boards, DDR, DDR2 and DDR3.

 

Keep in mind that often issues can arise in the longer term even though you have shorter term stability. The issues seldom damage the DRAM unless you raise the DRAM voltage too high. They damage the on CPU (AMD) memory controller which has a harder time keeping up with the demands of a four DRAM slot population being run as fast as a two DRAM slot population.

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Set the Northbridge to 1.50v and set the DRAM to 667Mhz.

 

The only memory Corsair supports in a four DRAM slot population is their Quad kits. This does not mean they will not work, just that you have no recourse to RMA Corsair if they do not work. If there are problems with the DRAM modules, they are still supported via lifetime warranty, but that is for physical defects ie. errors in a two stick kit mode. Be sure that you get the same version DRAM. Be careful here, because there can be the same model but different versions that will NOT play nice together. Matched Quad sets are highly binned modules for a four slot population. The Dual sets are tested as a kit, not a Quad.

 

So, in summation, it should work, but you are advised to drop the bandwidth to 667Mhz and raise the given voltages below.

 

Please research this thread:

 

http://www.houseofhelp.com/v3/showthread.php?t=64360&highlight=Unpredictable+results+QUAD2X4096+Gigabyte+X38-DS5

 

There is a limitation of the On Motherboard (Intel) memory controller or On CPU (AMD, Intel i7) and a population of all four banks at the full speed of a two bank run. This limitation is across the board with both AMD and Intel chipset based boards, DDR, DDR2 and DDR3.

 

Keep in mind that often issues can arise in the longer term even though you have shorter term stability. The issues seldom damage the DRAM unless you raise the DRAM voltage too high. They damage the on CPU (AMD) memory controller which has a harder time keeping up with the demands of a four DRAM slot population being run as fast as a two DRAM slot population.

 

DerekT,

 

Thanks for the feedback, but as I stated before dropping the bandwidth to 667Mhz is not going to be well recieved. I checked these Sticks and all are the same version 1.1.

 

I read that post (and lots of others) and understand the premise. It seems strange the Asus Motherboard won't control it's avertized amount of Ram (up to 8 Gigs in the case of a Striker Extreme) at the speed listed in it's specifications here:

 

"4 x DIMM, Max. 8 GB, DDR2 800/667/533 Non-ECC,Un-buffered Memory Dual Channel memory architecture

* Refer to

www.asus.com

or user manual for Memory QVL (Qualify Vendor List)"

 

=> I just checked again, and this Corsair RAM is not on the Qualified Vendors List for this Motherboard, although various other manufacturers are rated at 800 Mhz to fill all 4 Slots. (Although this is an old list compiled soon after the Striker Extreme was launched a year or two ago. There is no mention of any 2 Gig Sticks and no need for "matched pairs" => never mind Matched Quad groups to fill these slots.

 

My Buddy & I had heard only good things about Corsair and we've both migrated to their product prior to this little project. (And I've put it in other Boxes I've built for others.) He neglected to check if this was on the QVL for this board but there are no 2 Gig Ram Sticks. So I now wonder how could Asus let their Customers fill the slots to 8 Gig as per Specifications? Seems Like I need to head over to their board and see if this has already come up there.

 

I'll advise my findings.

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  • Corsair Employees

The issue is the physical limitation of the memory controller. And, I realize it is a small thing but, ASUS does not actually state that the board will do 8GB AND any specific speeds.

 

4 x DIMM, Max. 8 GB, DDR2 800/667/533 Non-ECC,Un-buffered Memory Dual Channel memory architecture

 

It says it will do 8GB and then there is that pesky comma after.

 

You may in fact be able to adjust the memory controller voltage and accomodate the 4 modules at DDR800+. However, in our experience on this board, 8GB words best at DDR667.

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The issue is the physical limitation of the memory controller. And, I realize it is a small thing but, ASUS does not actually state that the board will do 8GB AND any specific speeds.

 

 

 

It says it will do 8GB and then there is that pesky comma after.

 

You may in fact be able to adjust the memory controller voltage and accomodate the 4 modules at DDR800+. However, in our experience on this board, 8GB words best at DDR667.

 

Thanks for the input but False Advertising or misrepresentation by Asus is what I'd call it => not a "pesky" comma.

 

I tried to change the NB to 1.5 volts and Ram to 667 Mhz. but still had no joy. With 4 Sticks in it still Hung. To reset the CMOS I have to power down, remove the second Video Card, move over a clr CMOS jumper, push the Clear Button, install the 2nd video card and power up. Enter Bios and reset all the parameters => including the RAID. Painful!:eek:

 

 

I met with my Buddy as he wanted the Box back sooner than expected. He wasn't pleased about the reduction in speed for the RAM. So I left it with virtually everything set to Auto and only 2 Sticks. Very stable.

 

I expect a phone call very soon as to where do we go from here.

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not that its relevent help, but i have a striker from hell myself and i found you can leave the jumper in the 2-3 position and use only the cmos button when needed without disturbing anything else.

 

Synthohol,

 

Thanks for the info, we'll try it. (But we still need to re&re the second Video Card:o:)

 

By the way, how much Ram do you have in your Striker?

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My Buddy's Striker was very stable (probably because he doesn't tweak it or push it very hard) since I built it. I liked it so much I used it's "Little Brother" to rebuild my Box when it's motherboard failed.

 

The Little Brother is a P5N32-E SLI. Don't be fooled by the name as this board is the same as a Striker Extreme except it lacks the esata/sata bus, the silly LCD Poster, and those 3 little buttons buried by the second video card. All things we don't need / didn't use on Fridge 3. The P5N32-E SLI has it's name printed on a sticker on the Board. If you peel it back Striker Extreme is printed into the Board.:roll:

 

RAMGUY,

 

Any comment on my previous question on the mixing of the old RAM:

 

"2 Sticks of Corsair CM2X2048-6400C5 (4GB) & 2 Sticks of CM2X1024-6400C4 Memory (2GB) = 6 GB Total. (He didn't notice the C4 is 2.1V while the C5 is 1.9V while timing is 4-4-4-12 and 5-5-5-12 respectively. If the Board is left to Auto, isn't the performance degraded mixing these two types?) "

 

As always, thanks for the input. ;):

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  • 2 weeks later...
just 2 gig of c5 dominators 9x333 and 800 on the ram on a Q6600.

extremely finiky board. sometimes i want to toss it into the lake.

 

 

Well you are certainly correct about "finicky".

 

I advised my Buddy he'd have to cough up ~$300 for more Ram, while I kept trying to tweak the settings (with help from the Corsair Site = Thanks Guys!;):) but didn't get any progress in 5 or 6 days. He needed the Box back so I gave it to him with only 4 Gigs installed, but everthing operating really fine. He said he'd tweak it, and get it working with all 8 Gigs.

 

He took it to his office and (him & his IT guy => I didn't know of the IT Professional until later) attempted to get all 8 gigs going. A few days later I got an email (he was too embarassed for a live conversation:o: ) advising they'd gotten nowhere, and now couldn't get the Box to even Boot .

 

He brought the carcass over to my place, and I tried for days, but could never get it past POST and not even into Setup. I even tried a single, known to be good Graphics Card, and slower (********) RAM. Numerous resets of the CMOS/Bios. I told him it looked like he Killed it and it was time to think RMA with Asus.

 

The next thing I know he bought an EVGA X58 MotherBoard and the Intel QuadCore i7 920 CPU from NCIX. He's going to drop it off in the next day or so (and grab the Striker to RMA). He's still working on the DDR3 memory from CORSAIR (or ******** as he's not very pleased with the escapades on this project and may want to cut to a different Memory OEM in addition to the EVGA Motherboard) at 1600Mhz rates (6 Gigs), but he wants me to put the rest of it together so it's ready for the RAM. Any good sugetions of Corsair Ram for this Board? If you wanted to go to 6 2 gig Sticks (12 gigs total)=> not my idea => will we run into the same issue like a Quad set on the Striker? Does Corsair even offer 6 matched 2 Gig Sticks @ 1600 Mhz?

 

Today he mentioned he's again looking at Water Cooling. I said do I look like a Plummer? Boy this Box is lots of fun.

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Hey Ram Guy (or ?)

 

Any advise on suitable Corsair Ram for the EVGA X58 ?

 

Thanks.:cool:

 

You are still going to have to drop bandwidth if you populate all four DRAM slots. In other words, on a 1600Mhz support, only one stick of 1600Mhz per channel is supported. Two sticks of 1600 per channel is advised to drop to 1333Mhz. This is not to say that you can not get 12 modules on triple channels to run at 1600mhz. Just that it is not supported and in the long run there can be issues of hardware component failure when such a population is created. With legacy motherboards, the on motherboard memory controller begins to issue errors of lost dual channel mode, dysfunctional memory slots and sometimes people will find the stability becomes less so they increase memory voltage which can help in the shorter term but the issues repeat, increase in memory voltage occurs again and finally the DRAM is damaged. Without an increase in voltages to the memory, the damage will be to the motherboard's memory controller. In the case of on CPU die memory controllers, this issue can bring about wonky CPU memory controller. This is AMD as the Intel i7 is far too new to know if this issue transitions. Considering it follows all other chipsets and memory controllers, I would hazard a somewhat considered opinion that it will transition to Intel i7 as well.

 

It is not Asus, it is across the board on any/all chipsets and on cpu die memory controllers. If you look at it logically, it makes sense. You can not really expect four modules to be translated at the speed of the maximum that two modules can do. The memory controller has more and faster access and load times and can not change the timings or the speed as it has been set manually. OEM machines automatically drop the speed and there is no manual settings that will damage the hardware.

 

If you check any motherboard manufacturer, they state the maximum speed of the memory supported and the maximum capacities. In other words, 1600Mhz and 8GB. NOT 1600Mhz at 8GB.

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You are still going to have to drop bandwidth if you populate all four DRAM slots. .....

 

If you check any motherboard manufacturer, they state the maximum speed of the memory supported and the maximum capacities. In other words, 1600Mhz and 8GB. NOT 1600Mhz at 8GB.

 

 

Derek,

 

Thanks for the post.

 

I assume you meant 6 Slots on the EVGA X58.

 

I guess my Buddy is going to be in for a hard time if your premise is correct for this X58. But on the Box, on the 3rd of 17 Bullets on the EVGA X58 SLI MB FEATURES it says:

 

"6 DIMM Triple-Channel DDR3 1333MHz+"

 

In the Manual, Page 9, under Motherboard Specifications, below the System Memory Support Bullet. It states:

"Supports triple channel JEDEC DDR3-1333+. Officially supports up to 12GBs of DDR3 memory."

 

From these statements I still think it says the EVGA X58 will support all 6 slots populated with 12 gigs of Ram above 1333MHz => meaning 1600 or better.

 

The logic of having to throttle back RAM due to Memory controller inadequacies (whether voltage or frequency) would hold if you are beyond the published limits of the specification. Most folks interpret specifications to mean the OEM guaranteed minimum a device can handle and not the upper limit.

 

My Buddy didn't spend $700 just to get 6 Gigs running @ 1333.:o: Any idea what's the most suitable Corsair RAM for this Board?

 

(Do you think I should start a new Thread on this?)

 

Thanks for the assist.

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Yes, I mean six slots. Contact EVGA and get them to say six DIMMs at 1333 with 1333Mhz DRAM. Or six DIMMS at 1666 with 1666Mhz DRAM. Get them to say they will support this.

 

If you expect to get that to work, then I advise you to buy other than Corsair because you are very very likely to be disappointed and I would rather you put the disappointment and blame on another company.

 

I repeat, if you are going to think the way you show, buy from another company please. In other words, if you are going to buy 6 X 1600Mhz DRAM and expect 6 X 1600Mhz speeds, buy elsewhere.

 

And let me be clear here. I do NOT say that you can not do it. It's possible but not probable. To expect it to work is the issue. If you expect it to work, then you expect support for it to work. Corsair does NOT support such a population.

 

"Supports triple channel JEDEC DDR3-1333+. Officially supports up to 12GBs of DDR3 memory."

 

Note that there are two sentences. The first being Supports triple channel JEDEC DDR3-1333+. The second being Officially supports up to 12GBs of DDR3 memory. It does NOT say "Supports triple channel JEDEC DDR3-1333+ at capacities of up to 12GBs of DDR3 memory."

 

Derek,

 

Thanks for the post.

 

I assume you meant 6 Slots on the EVGA X58.

 

I guess my Buddy is going to be in for a hard time if your premise is correct for this X58. But on the Box, on the 3rd of 17 Bullets on the EVGA X58 SLI MB FEATURES it says:

 

"6 DIMM Triple-Channel DDR3 1333MHz+"

 

In the Manual, Page 9, under Motherboard Specifications, below the System Memory Support Bullet. It states:

"Supports triple channel JEDEC DDR3-1333+. Officially supports up to 12GBs of DDR3 memory."

 

From these statements I still think it says the EVGA X58 will support all 6 slots populated with 12 gigs of Ram above 1333MHz => meaning 1600 or better.

 

The logic of having to throttle back RAM due to Memory controller inadequacies (whether voltage or frequency) would hold if you are beyond the published limits of the specification. Most folks interpret specifications to mean the OEM guaranteed minimum a device can handle and not the upper limit.

 

My Buddy didn't spend $700 just to get 6 Gigs running @ 1333.:o: Any idea what's the most suitable Corsair RAM for this Board?

 

(Do you think I should start a new Thread on this?)

 

Thanks for the assist.

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Derek,

 

Thanks for the dialogue.

 

It seems some OEMs are being coy with their capacity statements (first Asus on the Striker Extreme, and to a lesser degree EVGA's X58) but I appreciate your opinion on Corsair's capability.

 

But as you state in your Signature "No! I Don't Work For Corsair. I am a simple member, helping out." Perhaps the RAM Guy can chime in with an "official" Corsair opinion?

 

Then I can tell my Buddy what RAM to go buy. Personally I haven't seen a published need for 12 Gigs, but some folks want the maximum just in case.:o:

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It seems some OEMs are being coy with their capacity statements (first Asus on the Striker Extreme, and to a lesser degree EVGA's X58) but I appreciate your opinion on Corsair's capability.

:

 

Keep in mind that memory capacity on X58 MOBOs will depend as much if not more on the CPU now that the memory controller is on the CPU. And, it can vary when OCing from CPU to CPU. So, this is most likely why you saw the "+" at the end of that 1333+ specification.

 

And, I would interpret 1333+ as meaning 2 things.

 

1. The board and CPU combos have been validated up to 1333 but not beyond by the board or CPU manufacturers respectively.

 

2. It may go as high as 1334 but it not guaranteed since it is OCing to an untested specification.

 

I would recommend our 1600C8 6GB kit for this board. If you want to run 12GB with it, your specific combination of board and CPU may or may not be able to run it at 1333+. However, if you do buy the 1600 kits, you will know that it will not be the memory holding you back if your OC is limited.

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