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Dominator 8500 ...Tighter Timings or More Bandwidth ?


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I have recently purchased the an XPS 630i and i am torn between running my ram at 4-4-4-12 at around 910 (stable) or 5-5-5-15 1066 (only stable if i increase voltage on Q6600 for some reason).

 

I have read different things about getting better perfomance in games with tighter timings as oppose to greater bandwidth with loose timings. But what i am unsure of is the ratio's ... meaning i assume that 950 at 4-4-4-12 is superior to 1066 5-5-5-15 when gaming but on the other hand 1100 at 5-5-5-15 maybe superior to 910 at 4-4-4-12. Please advise.

 

Also what does the "F" denote in 8500C5DF ? I read that you suggest getting two 2gb modules instead of four 1gb as a result i just canceled my order to get 2 1gb modules. I currently have two 1gb modules in my computer and it is listed at 8500C5D. It also says the recommended voltage is 2.2 as oppose to 2.1 ....wasnt the EPP standard voltage recommendation a way to determine whether it was Micron D9G module ?

 

I also see that you suggest the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme in place of the stock heatsink as welll two fans for cooling. I will give those a shot for cooling as i have to kick my voltage up from 1.35 to 1.45 if i set my memory to 1066 5-5-5-15 or want to go beyond 3.2ghz

 

My current specs (new computer so will change till happy/stable)

FSB @ 1423, v1.4 / 3.2ghz, v1.45 / 1066mhz 5-5-5-15, 2.2v (may change based on your input) / Chipset v1.4

 

I also have C1E, Speedstep, and Frequency Unlimit (ratio locked) disabled. Hyper Threading set to default 5x and both PCIe slots set to 101 mhz from the default 100 (read that doing this "can change the irq assigned to the device and reduce potential conflicts" ...not sure how accurate that is but did it anyhow)

 

Last but not least do you have any experience with the Corsair Memory Fan for the Dominators ? I wasnt sure as your specs say you have xms2 4096 8500C5... i believe those arent Dominators but not sure? Will it fit in the case with the Thermal right heatsink and fans ?

 

Thanks for your input and help... i am having alot of fun with the new computer just need to make sure i have the right information before i go further.

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I have recently purchased the an XPS 630i and i am torn between running my ram at 4-4-4-12 at around 910 (stable) or 5-5-5-15 1066 (only stable if i increase voltage on Q6600 for some reason).

 

910 @ 4-4-4-12 is very nice and better than 1066 @ 5-5-5-15 for FPS. You will find it snappier, even if canned benchmarks show an improvement with the increased speed. This is because canned benchmarks are logically based, and not reality based. In an example, on the highway. The number of automobiles that can run on the highway to capacity is a logical based amount. The number of automobiles that actually run on the highway is a reality based amount and in reality, I have found that 900Mhz with 4-4-4-12 is faster than 1066 with 5-5-5-15.

 

I have read different things about getting better perfomance in games with tighter timings as oppose to greater bandwidth with loose timings. But what i am unsure of is the ratio's ... meaning i assume that 950 at 4-4-4-12 is superior to 1066 5-5-5-15 when gaming but on the other hand 1100 at 5-5-5-15 maybe superior to 910 at 4-4-4-12. Please advise.

 

The difference will be so marginal that it would be doubtful that you would be able to tell the difference. Whichever setting allows you less voltages on your system would be the way I would personally go. If you have a 1 Kilo Grapefruit in one hand and a 1.05 Kilo Grapefruit in the other hand it is doubtful you could tell the difference. Yes, if you used a good scale (benchmark) the pure numbers would show a differential but at this scale (your DRAM) it is extremely marginal.

 

Also what does the "F" denote in 8500C5DF ? I read that you suggest getting two 2gb modules instead of four 1gb as a result i just canceled my order to get 2 1gb modules. I currently have two 1gb modules in my computer and it is listed at 8500C5D. It also says the recommended voltage is 2.2 as oppose to 2.1 ....wasnt the EPP standard voltage recommendation a way to determine whether it was Micron D9G module ?

 

The "F" denotes "Fan". The EPP Standard is a standard and one in which is programmed in SPD as an extended profile. It is exclusive of any IC although manufacturing packagers such as Corsair, et al, can impliment this extended profile on the SPD values.

 

It depends on what you are doing with your system and the OS you are using. I currently game with Corsair 10000's at 1200Mhz and 4.0Ghz on a Xeon 3110. I see no difference in gaming with 4GB and 2GB and since I can clock far higher with 2GB Microns, I will not move to a 4GB system. When I move to DDR3 (prices need to drop and timings as well) I will then transition to 4GB. My server already has 2 X 2048 of Corsair 8500C5's and run nicely at 1100Mhz with a Quad Core Q6600 @ 3.6Ghz.

 

I also see that you suggest the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme in place of the stock heatsink as welll two fans for cooling. I will give those a shot for cooling as i have to kick my voltage up from 1.35 to 1.45 if i set my memory to 1066 5-5-5-15 or want to go beyond 3.2ghz

 

At this point in time, this cooler seems to be extremely functional.

 

Last but not least do you have any experience with the Corsair Memory Fan for the Dominators ? I wasnt sure as your specs say you have xms2 4096 8500C5... i believe those arent Dominators but not sure? Will it fit in the case with the Thermal right heatsink and fans ?

 

I do not use the Corsair Fans with my DRAM. They are loud and the 2048 PSC IC's do not need more than the DHX form factor to keep them cool. They are also not voltage hungry so 2.0v seems to be just fine. On my 1000's, I have a 120mm Antec Tri-Cool fan (on low) blowing on them.

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I have recently purchased the an XPS 630i and i am torn between running my ram at 4-4-4-12 at around 910 (stable) or 5-5-5-15 1066 (only stable if i increase voltage on Q6600 for some reason).

 

I have read different things about getting better perfomance in games with tighter timings as oppose to greater bandwidth with loose timings. But what i am unsure of is the ratio's ... meaning i assume that 950 at 4-4-4-12 is superior to 1066 5-5-5-15 when gaming but on the other hand 1100 at 5-5-5-15 maybe superior to 910 at 4-4-4-12. Please advise.

 

Also what does the "F" denote in 8500C5DF ? I read that you suggest getting two 2gb modules instead of four 1gb as a result i just canceled my order to get 2 1gb modules. I currently have two 1gb modules in my computer and it is listed at 8500C5D. It also says the recommended voltage is 2.2 as oppose to 2.1 ....wasnt the EPP standard voltage recommendation a way to determine whether it was Micron D9G module ?

 

I also see that you suggest the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme in place of the stock heatsink as welll two fans for cooling. I will give those a shot for cooling as i have to kick my voltage up from 1.35 to 1.45 if i set my memory to 1066 5-5-5-15 or want to go beyond 3.2ghz

 

My current specs (new computer so will change till happy/stable)

FSB @ 1423, v1.4 / 3.2ghz, v1.45 / 1066mhz 5-5-5-15, 2.2v (may change based on your input) / Chipset v1.4

 

I also have C1E, Speedstep, and Frequency Unlimit (ratio locked) disabled. Hyper Threading set to default 5x and both PCIe slots set to 101 mhz from the default 100 (read that doing this "can change the irq assigned to the device and reduce potential conflicts" ...not sure how accurate that is but did it anyhow)

 

Last but not least do you have any experience with the Corsair Memory Fan for the Dominators ? I wasnt sure as your specs say you have xms2 4096 8500C5... i believe those arent Dominators but not sure? Will it fit in the case with the Thermal right heatsink and fans ?

 

Thanks for your input and help... i am having alot of fun with the new computer just need to make sure i have the right information before i go further.

 

 

 

im running my dominators at 1147mhz at 5 5 5 12 and its lightening fast in games

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C2D perform almost 100% better with higher bandwidth.

 

However, liek I always have said based on ym experience, you need a delta of 75-80Mhz or 150-160Mhz DDR in order for the CAS5 to really start oupacing CAS4 timmings.

 

So 960 5-5-5-15 2T >>> 800 4-4-4-12 2T

 

or in your case try something around the 1100Mhz ranger 5-5-5-15 2T.

 

Also, to know what kind of ICs your Dominators use, youll have to check the revision number on them. Its goes like rev. 1.1 or 1.2 or something like that and compare it to the DDR2 IC inquiry list that RAMGUY has compiled:)

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The problem is that most of the testing for 960 5-5-5-15 2T > 800 4-4-4-12 2T is done via canned benchmarks and the differential when in real processing is very marginal, so much so that it becomes quite a moot point. I agree that 960 5-5-5-15 2T > 800 4-4-4-12 2T, but the differential with a digital stop watch and a load of F.E.A.R., or a FPS of F.E.A.R. will be quite marginal.

 

There is a point in time where the differential becomes a low return or diminishing return. 1066Mhz DRAM with 5-5-3-15 (2 X 2048) vs 1200Mhz at 5-5-5-9 (2 X 1024 D9GMH) shows a differential in benchmarks, but in gaming, graphics rendering, video and audio multiplexing to final render, etc. does not show much of a difference except when applying > 2GB needs.

 

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh293/DerekT2008/36-1200-1.jpg

 

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh293/DerekT2008/4gb.jpg

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Oh I completely agree:) He just wanted to know what is better and I told him. However, that fact still remains, in practical uses you only goin to see at the very most something around 1-3% improvement and thats being generous:)
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Oh I completely agree:) He just wanted to know what is better and I told him. However, that fact still remains, in practical uses you only goin to see at the very most something around 1-3% improvement and thats being generous:)

 

LOL - Indeed. I was just bringing the differential to light.

 

But I still spend large amounts of money for that tiny percentage. Go figure :D:

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Thanks for the quick response. Wellvthis is what was confusing me

 

910 @ 4-4-4-12 is very nice and better than 1066 @ 5-5-5-15 for FPS

 

Then

 

C2D perform almost 100% better with higher bandwidth.

 

However, liek I always have said based on ym experience, you need a delta of 75-80Mhz or 150-160Mhz DDR in order for the CAS5 to really start oupacing CAS4 timmings.

 

So 960 5-5-5-15 2T >>> 800 4-4-4-12 2T

 

Many different points of view hence the need for clarification before i push things further.I also noted that you mentioned that the difference wouldnt start to show in your experience until 160mhz+. So based on Zer's findings my setup of 910 4-4-4-12 > 1066 5-5-5-15 by a small margin. Which would also coincide with Derek's thoughts :biggrin:

 

Also i think i am a bit confused about this

 

910 @ 4-4-4-12 is very nice and better than 1066 @ 5-5-5-15 for FPS. You will find it snappier, even if canned benchmarks show an improvement with the increased speed. This is because canned benchmarks are logically based, and not reality based. In an example, on the highway. The number of automobiles that can run on the highway to capacity is a logical based amount. The number of automobiles that actually run on the highway is a reality based amount and in reality, I have found that 900Mhz with 4-4-4-12 is faster than 1066 with 5-5-5-15.

 

Originally Posted by saytr79

I have read different things about getting better perfomance in games with tighter timings as oppose to greater bandwidth with loose timings. But what i am unsure of is the ratio's ... meaning i assume that 950 at 4-4-4-12 is superior to 1066 5-5-5-15 when gaming but on the other hand 1100 at 5-5-5-15 maybe superior to 910 at 4-4-4-12. Please advise.

 

 

The difference will be so marginal that it would be doubtful that you would be able to tell the difference. Whichever setting allows you less voltages on your system would be the way I would personally go. If you have a 1 Kilo Grapefruit in one hand and a 1.05 Kilo Grapefruit in the other hand it is doubtful you could tell the difference. Yes, if you used a good scale (benchmark) the pure numbers would show a differential but at this scale (your DRAM) it is extremely marginal.

 

Based on the first response it looks like you are confirming what i had initially thought but wasnt sure that 4-4-4-12 910 > 1066 5-5-5-15 but then in the second response where i said i assume 4-4-4-12 950 > 1066 5-5-5-15 you said that the difference would be marginal. I am sure i missed something there.

 

What are your voltages at Derek, Zer and Anti ? Derek when you were suggesting the 2x2gb 8500 i assume it was only because they said they were getting 4gb's of ram ... you werent really suggesting that for a gaming machine .... namely one with Vista Ultimate 32bit ? I would like to keep my computer quite as well ... i was going to get this to keep my computer ventilated http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999613 but that would make my room sound like the USS Enterprise. What 92mm would you suggest to keep the air flowing out of my box?

 

Zer my revision is 1.2 .. i will take a look at that list, thanks.

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Right now Im running 1066 4-4-4-12 2T on my RAM at 2.17vDIMM, but thats not the same kits as your so... The kit can also run a bit higher at CAS 4 without hitting over 2.2 volts which is what the manufacturer for my brand warranties...

 

Version 1.2 heh, let me check! OH, yay... You have Micron D9 rev, prob D9GMH:)

 

So yeah you can easely push your RAM over 1100Mhz:) Just stay at what your kits recommended warrantied voltages are and youll do fine:)

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Right now Im running 1066 4-4-4-12 2T on my RAM at 2.17vDIMM, but thats not the same kits as your so... The kit can also run a bit higher at CAS 4 without hitting over 2.2 volts which is what the manufacturer for my brand warranties...

 

Version 1.2 heh, let me check! OH, yay... You have Micron D9 rev, prob D9GMH:)

 

So yeah you can easely push your RAM over 1100Mhz:) Just stay at what your kits recommended warrantied voltages are and youll do fine:)

 

mine are revision 1.2 what are D9 are they any good?

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mine are revision 1.2 what are D9 are they any good?

 

They are supposed to be very good quality modules. Apparently they are very OC friendly.

 

Right now Im running 1066 4-4-4-12 2T on my RAM at 2.17vDIMM, but thats not the same kits as your so... The kit can also run a bit higher at CAS 4 without hitting over 2.2 volts which is what the manufacturer for my brand warranties...

 

Version 1.2 heh, let me check! OH, yay... You have Micron D9 rev, prob D9GMH:)

 

So yeah you can easely push your RAM over 1100Mhz:) Just stay at what your kits recommended warrantied voltages are and youll do fine:)

 

I was just running Prime95 at 4-4-4-12, 950 2.2v and i got an error after running for an hour or so. As i mentioned previously i had to up my voltage on my Q6600 from 1.35 to 1.45 to get stable when i was at 1066 5-5-5-15 and left it there when i tightened the timings and went back to 950. What is the voltage on your FSB, and CPU ? What speed are you running your CPU at?

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They are supposed to be very good quality modules. Apparently they are very OC friendly.

 

 

 

I was just running Prime95 at 4-4-4-12, 950 2.2v and i got an error after running for an hour or so. As i mentioned previously i had to up my voltage on my Q6600 from 1.35 to 1.45 to get stable when i was at 1066 5-5-5-15 and left it there when i tightened the timings and went back to 950. What is the voltage on your FSB, and CPU ? What speed are you running your CPU at?

 

my NB voltage is at 1.33 and cpu at 1.45 my E8400 is at 9x478= 4.3ghz

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They are supposed to be very good quality modules. Apparently they are very OC friendly.

 

 

 

I was just running Prime95 at 4-4-4-12, 950 2.2v and i got an error after running for an hour or so. As i mentioned previously i had to up my voltage on my Q6600 from 1.35 to 1.45 to get stable when i was at 1066 5-5-5-15 and left it there when i tightened the timings and went back to 950. What is the voltage on your FSB, and CPU ? What speed are you running your CPU at?

 

Try running them at 2.1-2.15 at thoses speeds, also it could just be a NB issue altogether. What is your NB voltages? Also, are you running unlinked or linked on that mobo?

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Sorry, took an adult nap, lol

 

Try running them at 2.1-2.15 at thoses speeds, also it could just be a NB issue altogether. What is your NB voltages? Also, are you running unlinked or linked on that mobo?

 

Well i was trying to get a stable 3-5 hours with Prime95 before taking it down from the recommended voltage. Right now i am at 1.45v Cpu, 2.2v Memory, 1.45 v NB, and 1.45v FSB. Ideally i would like to take the Cpu down to 1.4 - 1.35 (although i dont think i am going to get 1.35) and the Mem down to 2.1.

 

I have found that most NB like ~1.4v with Micron D9's.

 

I have found that you are correct. I kicked the NB voltage up to 1.45v before taking a nap and Prime has been running strong for jsut under 4 hours now ... its a sauna in my room my load temps are around 66-67 so i really need to get that heatsink and fan(s) ya suggested.

 

Also Derek i asked you in the previous post but perhaps you missed it... what fan do you use or can you suggest to keep my computer ventilated? I was looking for a 92mm and had this one in mind http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999613 but apparently its very loud. You seem to like to keep your computer quite if possible so any suggestions ?

 

Thanks again for the guys, its greatly appreciated.

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What kind of CPU cooler do you have?

 

Oh, nvm... your considering a very good Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme.

 

The 2 type of fans Id suggest for you are the 120mm Scythe S-Flex 1600rpm fan or for better performance at the cost of noise, the Scythe Ultra Kaze 2000rpm (DO NOT get the 3000rpm version its a frigging NIOSY thing, although its crazy good for airflow/static pressure).

 

Also avoid small rotor/9 blade desings such as the Scythe Slip Stream series because they do not work very well against obstructions like Heatsink fins due to poor static pressue numbers, the only area were they really do shine is in case cooling with unobstructed intake/outake areas:) I own 4 of them running at 1600rpm for my Antec 900 case and man do they move ALOT of air.

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For my gaming system I chose an Antec Nine Hundred Case, not for looks, but because it is the best ventilated case I have found. I don't have any fans smaller than 120mms so I can't really say about the smaller ones. They all seemed rather loud to me. Had to run them fast to get a decent CFM and then they were loud. I now use the Antec Tri Cool 120mm fans with a three way switch and set all switches to low. The Nine Hundred comes with two 120mm front (Hard Drive Coolers and Air Intake). One 120mm at the back and one 200mm at the top. My drives are 23C. The 45nm CPU's are a bit off the mark with idle but my load temps are 60C. Nothing I do pushes them that high though at any rate. A good CPU cooler is great but I would not be concerned too much at all with a 66/67 CPU Load Temp. My Q6600 is at that temp on full load as well. It's been going 24/7 for six months now.
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Hey man, if you find thoses Antec fans inadequate like I have and you got 40bucks lying around, I might sugget you try the 1200rpm Scythe Slip Stream fans, I personnaly have 4 of the 1600rpm version and while they are a bit loud (I dont really mind) they move a enormous amount of air!
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It's quite surprising how much air these fans move and set to low. My hard drives are 23C, 8800GTX 52C, 30C PWM, 32C Xeon 3110 @ 4.0Ghz and I can hardly hear them moving. The 8800GTX is set to 300/2000 on 2D and 625/2000 on 3D via Riva Tuner.http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh293/DerekT2008/now-1.jpg

 

Hey man, if you find thoses Antec fans inadequate like I have and you got 40bucks lying around, I might sugget you try the 1200rpm Scythe Slip Stream fans, I personnaly have 4 of the 1600rpm version and while they are a bit loud (I dont really mind) they move a enormous amount of air!
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I checked out the Scythe's but most if them i saw were 120mm .. they had a few 92's would like to try to keep the computer as quite as possible. I went with this 92mm exhaust fan.

 

url]http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=productview&products_id=16&lng=en&set=1[/url]

 

Looks like a good buy @ 37.8 CFM, 17,6 DB(a) 1600rpm. Derek what application is that in your screenshot below that lists all your temps and voltages? Ok, i have been playing with this computer all day and night....going to call it a night tonight and will check back in tomm :):

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Derek what application is that in your screenshot below that lists all your temps and voltages? Ok, i have been playing with this computer all day and night....going to call it a night tonight and will check back in tomm :):

 

The best program and industry standard for testing and checking your system. http://www.lavalys.com and the program is called, "Everest Ultimate Edition". That's also the program that is showing the bandwidth Memory, etc.

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The best program and industry standard for testing and checking your system. http://www.lavalys.com and the program is called, "Everest Ultimate Edition". That's also the program that is showing the bandwidth Memory, etc.

 

I have to give that a shot, will download the free trial and play around with it. So i have gotten my 2x 1gb modules to 1066 4-4-4-12 stable. I have run about 12+ hours on memtest and i think 7+ hours on prime95. I am happy with the ram overclock. I will prob take my Q6600 up from 3.2 to 3.3 once i get another cooler and tweak my GPU a bit more. I think i will be done at that point...or not :)

 

Thanks again for the help guys, its greatly appreciated.

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So i have gotten my 2x 1gb modules to 1066 4-4-4-12 stable. I have run about 12+ hours on memtest and i think 7+ hours on prime95. I am happy with the ram overclock. I will prob take my Q6600 up from 3.2 to 3.3 once i get another cooler and tweak my GPU a bit more.

 

That's a good DRAM clocking. I would have active cooling on them though. 3.2 is still a fine overclock as well. I personally believe that after ~3.2 it becomes much of a numbers game because much of the speed and bandwidth is unused after that. I mean, how fast can you scroll through Excel? Even most FPS games are now capped to deal with the too fast CPU's.

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