bonuslife Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Hey everyone- my rig's down, and I need help! I've read other threads, but nothing seems to match my particular issue... I have an Asus Crosshair MB, Corsair XMS DDR2 Twin2x1024 6400c4 RAM, an AMD 6000+ Athlon X2 proc and I run Vista Ultimate 32bit. My computer has been slick and stable for quite some time. However, I recently purchased two new 1GB sticks of Corsair XMS DDR2 PC-800 memory from newegg to compliment the 2GB I already had (exact same kind). I installed them, and opened up some kind of crap storm of crashes/BSOD's. I have already installed the Microsoft patch allowing me to use more than 3 GB of memory in Vista, but now I can't seem to get the two original matched sticks working at all, much less all four! My computer also only recognizes around 3300MB of the RAM out of 4000-ish in Sidebar before it crashes, but that doesn't concern me. Anyway, I have updated the chipset drivers for my Asus Crosshair, the Bios is up to date, and I manually set the RAM timings to 4-4-4-12 and 2.1 volts in Bios. I've even tried clearing CMOS. The strange thing is, individually the original sticks work fine- I've tested them each on their own with Memtest with no errors. However, when running Memtest with the original two matched sticks in together (my original config, both in Channel A, which had been working fine for a year), I get this message- "Memory error detetcted! Pair 2283005 does not store values accurately. Memtest has detected that your computer cannot accurately store data in RAM. You need to fix this." I get a slightly different message when running only the new RAM sticks in together in MemTest-"Memory error detected! Copying between 5dde17b and 5dddffb did not result in accurate copy." So is it my motherboard? Could the RAM suddenly be failing? Is dual-channel lost to me? ... Help! Any helpful input would be much appreciated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 You need to drop your DRAM speed when you populate all four DRAM banks. The on CPU memory controller can not keep up with the extra DRAM at the rated 6400 speed. You will need to drop the speed of the DRAM from 800Mhz to 667Mhz. If you had purchased 4 X 1024MB of PC8500 (1066Mhz) DRAM, then you would have had to drop to PC6400 (800MHz) DRAM, etc. 2 X 2048 will not issue this problem. This is a problem of all 4 banks being populated. Think of it this way. If you have a small phone book, then when you go into the index to find the page where you will find the phone number you are doing so at a certain speed due to the pages of the Index. Then you have to drive through the pages to get to the number. Now if your index is twice as large and the pages twice as many, then it takes longer to access the data. Now DRAM has a Strobe and the length of the strobe is how long the rows and columns can be left open before they must be refreshed. There is not enough time for the dram to be refreshed and then accessed with 4GB at the full access speed of the DRAM. The chipsets are optimized for 2GB, not 4GB and for 2 DRAM slots, not 4 DRAM slots populated. You can overclock the FSB (and hence the Memory Controller Hub = MCH) to gain some extra bandwidth and thus access the capabilities of the DRAM since the chipset is now clocked up. Usually when you clock up the FSB and concurrently the Memory Controller Hub (MCH) you need to raise the voltages of the CPU/MCH a bit as well. Download Memtest from http://www.memtest.org. Burn the ISO image to CD. Enter your BIOS. Load default settings. Save default settings. Then set to the below settings. AI Tuning - Manual Overclock Options Enabled CPU Frequency: 200Mhz CPU Multiplier: 15 Memory Clock Frequency: 667Mhz PCIEX16_1 Clock: 100Mhz PCIEX16_2 Clock: 100Mhz CPU<->NB HT Speed: 5 X CPU Frequency (1000Mhz) NB to SB HT Frequency: 200Mhz NB --> SB HT SPeed: 5XNB to SB HT Frequency CPU<--> NB HT Width: /\ 16 \/ 16 CPU Voltage Range: Auto CPU Voltage: Auto DDR2 Voltage Control: 2.0v HT Link Voltage: Auto North Bridge Voltage: 1.55v South Bridge Voltage: Auto South Bridge PLL: Auto DDR2 Controller Ref Voltage: Auto DDR2 Channel A Ref Voltage: Auto DDR2 Channel B Ref Voltage: Auto Memory Timing SLI-Ready Memory: Disabled tCL: 4 tRCD: 4 tRP: 4 tRAS: 12 Width of DRAM Interface: 64-bit 1T/2T Memory Timing: 2T Channel A Clock Skew: Normal Advanced Memory Settings tRC: Auto tWR: Auto tRRD: Auto tRWT: Auto tWTR: Auto tRTP: Auto tWRRD: Auto tWRWR: Auto tRDRD: Auto tREF: Auto tRFC: Auto DRAM Termination: Auto Max Async Latency: Auto R/W Que Bypass: Auto Dynamic Idle Cycle Counter: Auto Idle Cycle Limit: Auto DCQ Bypass Maximum: Auto DRAM Burst Length: 8 (QW) Dram Bank Interleaving: 4-Bank Memory Hole Remapping: Enabled Set all else to Auto Boot to the Memtest CD and allow for two full passes. Results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonuslife Posted February 16, 2008 Author Share Posted February 16, 2008 DerekT- Thanks so much for the detailed response! Have you had a Crosshair before? Anyway, I set the settings as you instructed, with a few exceptions, due to my Bios: DRAM Burst Length: 8 (QW)--> only options were for 64/32-byte Dram Bank Interleaving: 4-Bank--> only option was for enabled/disabled I also could not find Memory Hole Remapping anywhere. Upon running Memtest with 3 full passes, I now get no errors and no BSODs. Based on what you said, however, I think maybe I am going to return the new sticks and spend $60 more on Newegg for Corsair's 2 x 2GB DHX sticks with all the same timings - you said that I wouldn't have to knock down the timing with only two 2GB sticks, right? Thanks SO MUCH again! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 DRAM Burst Length: 8 (QW)--> only options were for 64/32-byte I have worked with Crosshair but do not own AMD anymore. Not since the Core2 technology came out. 64-byte is the same as a burst length of 8. Dram Bank Interleaving: 4-Bank--> only option was for enabled/disabled Set to Enabled I also could not find Memory Hole Remapping anywhere. Possibly this board automatically remaps. The ones I worked on were populated with 2 X 1024. Upon running Memtest with 3 full passes, I now get no errors and no BSODs. Good stuff :) Based on what you said, however, I think maybe I am going to return the new sticks and spend $60 more on Newegg for Corsair's 2 x 2GB DHX sticks with all the same timings - you said that I wouldn't have to knock down the timing with only two 2GB sticks, right? Somewhat. The AMD HT is not at all saturated, so although there will be a difference, I don't think that the difference is worth it if you have found stability. The timings do not need to be raised, just the bandwidth data stream needs to be lowered with 4 X 1024 as opposed to 2 X 2048. You would be able to run 2 X 2048 of 6400DHX at full 800Mhz steam but in the real world of your processor data stream, the difference is not all that marked. On a Core 2 I would say a resounding "Yes", but on your AMD, I would think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonuslife Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 Hmmm. The reason I ask about buying the DHX RAM is because I noticed a decrease in my 3D Mark 06 score after you helped me get my system stable, which seemed rather disappointing- I assumed that with twice the RAM, it would go UP, particularly on the CPU tests. I wanna run through Crysis again with more stable frame rates, and the CPU benchmark for the game wasn't any different with the 4GB of RAm running at 667MHz than when I had 2 GB of RAM running at 800MHz. Was I mistaken? Was adding more RAM not actually ever going to help? What's the point of extra RAM, then? Maybe I shoulda done more research before I got involved with all of this... Thanks again for all the help regardless, I appreciate your expertise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Hmmm. The reason I ask about buying the DHX RAM is because I noticed a decrease in my 3D Mark 06 score after you helped me get my system stable, which seemed rather disappointing- I assumed that with twice the RAM, it would go UP, particularly on the CPU tests. I wanna run through Crysis again with more stable frame rates, and the CPU benchmark for the game wasn't any different with the 4GB of RAm running at 667MHz than when I had 2 GB of RAM running at 800MHz. Was I mistaken? Was adding more RAM not actually ever going to help? What's the point of extra RAM, then? Maybe I shoulda done more research before I got involved with all of this... Thanks again for all the help regardless, I appreciate your expertise! Higher marks and an unstable system are not the results you should be looking for. Transitioning from 2GB --> 4GB DRAM does not give you higher 3DMarks as that is mainly the CPU and Graphics Adapter. Why would you expect the CPU tests to increase when you add DRAM? Think about the logic of what you said. The extra DRAM will help you when you are actually loading the game, transitioning from one load to another and in your OS's ability to function without swapping. It will not make your CPU run faster or perform faster. Remember that your DRAM even at 667Mhz is still running faster than your CPU, so of course that will not make any marked difference and dropping the DRAM speed from 800Mhz to 667Mhz will show a difference just as dropping the CPU speed will show a difference. I mentioned that if you move to the overclock, you can very likely regain much of the bandwidth lost. If you reread my post you will see this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonuslife Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 That makes sense- this was my first build, so I'm still learning. Thanks again for the help- I'll stick with my current stable configuration, do some more research and start playing with some slight overclocking. It all makes sense now. Cheers, and thanks again for all your help and instruction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 You're very welcome :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imdaevilpoptart Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Thanks a ton as well i have 8 gigs of ram do i use the same settings on the clock, they are ocz sli edition ram, i was wondering if i use the same 667mhz or do i move it to 800 any help would surely be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Thanks a ton as well i have 8 gigs of ram do i use the same settings on the clock, they are ******** sli edition ram, i was wondering if i use the same 667mhz or do i move it to 800 any help would surely be appreciated. If you use all four DRAM banks, then for stabilities sake it would be better to drop the bandwidth one bin, keeping the timings correct. Long term issues can occur if you keep them at the full speed of the DRAM. The issues can be motherboard (Memory Controller) or DRAM errors. So for the sake of system longterm longevity, I suggest you drop from 800Mhz to 667MHz. Keep in mind that your DRAM is running so much faster than your CPU even at 667Mhz so there is no possibility that you are bandwidth saturated with that AMD system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imdaevilpoptart Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Thanks derek i appreciate it i was having all kinds of problems and since i took your advice i havent crashed a single time i really do appreciate the time you took to fill that out, thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employees RAM GUY Posted February 27, 2008 Corsair Employees Share Posted February 27, 2008 Thanks for letting us know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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