M2n32-sli deluxe and 4gig ..again!!

[Nightlight]

Hi,

 

Ok, I've read all about having 4 off, CM2X1024-6400C4 modules in this board and how you have to run the ram at DDR677 to get the board to run stably.

However,in the Asus manual for this board in the DDR2-800 compat list it states that Corsair CM2X1024A-6400C4 is supported in all 4 slots.

Question...

That "A" in the module part number, is that significant??? Do we need the "A" ver to run 4 sticks on this board at 800Mhz?????

 

I for one am somewhat miffed at having to de-rate my ram to make my system stable.

 

After having a look at the corsair memory explanation presentation kindly linked by RamGuy it seems the board might need registered ram to alleviate this "4 stick loading " problem..do Corsair do such a beast?? Am i right in assuming this would cure this problem?

 

cheers in advance :)

 

Night...

[DerekT]

The board manual states that it will accept 6400C4's in all four slots. That does not mean it will support the full speed of 6400C4 if you choose to populate all four slots. You will, very likely have to drop the speed of the DRAM to 667Mhz to run in all four slots with stability. This is a memory controller (on motherboard) issue and applies to both AMD and Intel chipsets. Registered DRAM is not supported on your motherboard.

 

Edit:

 

This link might help you understand the issue. Please take your time when you go through it.

 

http://www.houseofhelp.com/v3/showthread.php?p=316763#post316763

[Nightlight]

wow! many thanks for your speedy reply DerekT :))

 

I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with what you said, if what you say is true then a ceveat (sp) to that effect should have been

in the manual. Anyone without knowing about memory controller probs would , I think, assume that these modules would run at the specced 800Mhz.

 

ahh well, another hidden fact kept from us by manufacturers ..booo!!

 

unfair and misleading wouldnt you say ??

 

anyway, ill keep researching the problem..mibbi even ask Nvidia 'n Intel for the facts...should be a laugh eh ??

 

cheers again,

 

Night...

[DerekT]

Yes, it is very necessary to research well as much of the information necessary for a completely informed decision is not easily found. You can, very likely recoup some (or all) of the bandwidth loss via overclock as stated in the link though.

[Nightlight]

Just read your brilliant posts in that thread :)

 

one Sentence sums it up

 

Quote.

 

"People keep complaining that they can not reach 1066 with four DRAM banks filled but the problem is that they do not buy this DRAM with the knowledge of what someone has to do to reach those heights."

 

My point is..Why should we have to know ???

 

If I buy 4 x 800Mhz ram sticks and have a Board with 4 slots allegidly supporting 800Mhz ram

shouldnt I expect them to work together at 800Mhz out of the box??

 

I dont think it would be funny if i bought say a car advertised at reaching say 120MPH, only to find that I would have to retune the carbs, timing, exhausts etc...myself to get it to do that.

 

 

cheers :)

 

Night

[DerekT]

I understand your point and I agree with it. The issue is that it is not reality as reality stands, and I am one who accepts reality. Acceptance of the limits of hardware is necessary, although I do think that the motherboard manufacturers should be more specific.

 

Remember, you are buying enthusiast parts so you can consider that if you purchase a hot rod, you will be tuning it or having someone else tune it. :)

 

Here's the thing. Have fun with it. Setup the overclock and enjoy it. Post in the enthusiast section and we will help you gain the performance you desire.

[Xtreeme]

I dont think it would be funny if i bought say a car advertised at reaching say 120MPH, only to find that I would have to retune the carbs, timing, exhausts etc...myself to get it to do that.

 

erm, they do that. Have been for years they use a speed limiting chip for insurance reasons etc. Most dont do the speed that mags say since that chip is active. Friends mustang stops at like 90mph wont give gas to go over that no matter what till he chipped it.

 

Yes its misleading but how old is the saying "buyer beware"?

 

They didnt lie persay they used political twist method. It DOES in fact support 800mhz in ANY 4 slots, but not ALL 4 slots at same tim. Its all int he wording. You can choose any 1 or 2 slots of the 4 and the ram runs at speed and the same way regardless of which two you put the ram in.

 

Just like cars, sure it "can" hit 120mph but it wont unless you modify the computer that has the speed limiting chip.

http://www.europeancarweb.com/tech/0507ec_chip_tuning/index.html

[Nightlight]

Hi again,

 

Thank you all for your thoughts on the matter, I also accept reality albeit grudgingly..I get the feeling that if I sold something that I advertised as doing such and such and It didnt I would be up in front of the judge pretty damn quick...heheheheh :))

 

Just as well I didnt buy 2gig sticks or I'd have a motherboard that was unstable at 800Mhz using only 2 slots. lol

 

Thanks for the chipping info Xtreeme, been there done that.

 

I'm putting this to rest now...Another one for watchdog...

 

cheers again folks

 

kindest regards,

 

Night

[Nightlight]

Hello again,

 

FYI...

 

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2787&p=3

 

in the memory stress section.

 

looks like I should have bought faster ram to cure "the memory controller" issue. mybad :=(

 

faster ram = lower capacitance = faster rise and fall times = better stability'

 

Night...

Senior Electronics Engineer 30yrs,

 

waddya think ???

:sunglasse

[DerekT]

With four sticks you would still very likely have to overclock to gain the bandwidth back. With 8500's you would drop to 6400 and overclock. With 6400 you would have to drop to 5300 and overclock.

 

My take? Since you are at all times running the DRAM faster than the CPU, much of the gained bandwidth is theoretical. In other words, yes, the escalator moves that fast and can handle more people on it per minute but it's a moot point when most of the time the escalator is not near full. :P

[Nightlight]

Greetings again,

 

Just an update, after lurking around a few forums, I upped the voltage to the Dimms by 0.1V (2.2V now) and now have a rock solid system running at 800Mhz timings,5-5-5-18-2T . However, the system will not run if I try the EPP 4-4-4-12-2T timings, in fact, if I can get into the bios at all then, I find the display of the various items sometimes corrupted on screen :eek:

Back at 5-5-5-18-2T all seems well:biggrin:

I also notice in some of the other threads there is talk of upping the NB volts too, makes me wonder if the way I have got round the problem is the most efficient. Anyway I dont think I would see the diff between the 2 memory timings anyway and am happy that my system now has'nt had an issue since.

 

all the best y'all

 

Night.....

[RAM GUY]

DDR667 would be suggested with 4 modules and max memory Voltage is 2.1 Volts for those modules.

[MikeTNT]

Hello,

 

Yesterday I have updated my BIOS from 2101 to 2205.

Now I have to find out again the right memory setting in the BIOS.

Unfortunately I could only find this:

Testing parameters for Twinx/XMS2-6400C4:
Motherboard make and model: Asus P5WD2 or M2N32-SLI Premium/Deluxe
Each pair is tested and packaged together using the following settings:
AI Over Clock Tuner: Manual
CPU External Frequency: Manually set to 200MHz
DDR2 SDRAM Clock: Manually set to 800MHz
PCI Express Freq: Auto
PCI Freq: 33.33
Performance Mode: Standard
DRAM Timing Selectable: Manual
SDRAM CAS Latency: 4T
SDRAM RAS to CAS Delay (tRCD): 4T
SDRAM Row Precharge (tRP): 4T
SDRAM Active to Precharge Delay (tRAS): 12T
SDRAM Write Recovery Time: 5
Write to Precharge Delay: 15 (If it's Listed)
Command Rate: 2T
DDR2 SDRAM Voltage: 2.1
Advanced voltage control
CPU Vcore offset:_Disabled
DDR2 Termination: 0.5x
CPU to NB HT:____1.200V
NB to SB HT:_____AUTO
NB Core/PCI-E:___AUTO
SB Core/PCI-E:___AUTO
SB Standby core:_+1.500V

Output driver control
CKE:______AUTO
CS/ODT:__1.00X
ADD/CMD:_1.00X
MEMCLK:__1.00X
Chipset Core Voltage: Auto
All other settings are motherboard defaults.
Maximum DDR2 recommended VDIMM: 2.1 Volts

 

This settings only work if I use only 2 modules

 

I hope that I'm right with this: Twinx/XMS2-6400C4 = 2 x CM2X1024-6400C4?

I bought my modules here: http://www.hoh.de/Hardware/Arbeitsspeicher/Desktop/DDR2/DDR2-800/Groesse/Kits/2-GB/Corsair-XMS2-DIMM-Kit-2048MB-PC2-6400U-CL4-DDR2-800_i7809_17123.htm

 

So please let me know if you have such a list for 4 modules (4 x 1024 MB RAM)

I remember me that with BIOS 2101 I used timings like 5-5-5-18-2T @677 MHz @1,9V and that I have made a lot of other changes till my system was stable. Unfortunately I don't find the forum again where someone tested a lot of settings with m2n32 and several ram modules.

So I hope someone else can post his settings like in the above mentioned list.

 

cu Mike

[RAM GUY]

With 4 modules I would suggest setting the memory frequency at DDR667 and set the memory Voltage to 2.1 Volts and set the NB/MCH/SPP Voltage to +.2 Volts as well and test the system with http://www.memtest.org. In addition, with some MB's (Mostly ASUS) you have to disable legacy USB in the bios when running any memory test.

[MikeTNT]

Some people reported that BIOS version 2205 supports 800 MHz with 4 x 1 Gb ram modules. Unfortunately I cannot confirm this.

 

Thank you anyway for your quick response. My system is stable now @667 Mhz. I could find out my old settings in the meantime and I will post some pictures of my BIOS soon.

 

Edit:

http://www.miketnt.de/pic/minioutput.jpg http://www.miketnt.de/pic/minijump.jpg http://www.miketnt.de/pic/minidramtim.jpg http://www.miketnt.de/pic/minidram.jpg

http://www.miketnt.de/pic/minicpu.jpg http://www.miketnt.de/pic/minichip.jpg http://www.miketnt.de/pic/miniadvo.jpg http://www.miketnt.de/pic/miniadmem.jpg

 

 

cu Mike

[RAM GUY]

Also, keep in mind that EPP is not validated with 4 modules so EPP will not likely work running 4 up. And, AN806 is good reading for some of the items discussed here: http://www.corsairmemory.com/appnotes/default.aspx

 

From AN806:

 

Overclocking

If you take a look at a current motherboard with overclocking options, you may see some specifications similar to this:

 4 X 240-pin DIMM sockets supporting a maximum memory capacity of 8GB

 Supports dual channel DDR2 1066/800/667/533 Un-buffered Non-ECC memory

Many users interpret these specifications too liberally. A motherboard that can overclock to a given speed with 2 modules cannot overclock to that same given speed with 4-up. Again, this is due to the increased electrical load on the north bridge or memory controller and the increased heat that accompanies it. So, many users are disappointed when they add memory and their overclocking capability is reduced. They tend to fault the memory for this limitation when it is actually a physical limitation of the memory controller.

 

 

A good analogy representing visualization of the above specifications is a passenger truck. Let‟s assume that the maximum hauling capacity of the truck is 8000 pounds representing 8GB of memory. The top speed of the truck is 106.6 mph representing a memory speed of DDR1066. However, this does not mean that the truck can haul 8000 pounds at 106.6mph. The physical limitations are similar for a memory controller as 8GB and 1066 are both tested maximums for this memory controller. When the memory controller speed is increased for overclocking, it simply cannot manage the same amount of memory at that overclocked speed for proper stable communication with the CPU.

[dmann304]

Sounds good for those who use ddr2800 but what about those who use 1066 ram with all banks used?

 

Should it be set to 800 or also dropped as much as 667?

 

They say drop the fsb down a notch fro, 800 to 667 with all banks used but what about us 1066 users?

 

This ios is very odd.

[RAM GUY]

It really is not odd as you say, it is nothing new and has been an issue with un-buffered memory ever since! Its that it was till the last year or so that most of the general public could afford to fill up all of the memory slots on a MB.