HX620 + OCd 8800GTX SLI - Not enough for Half life series?

[tcassisi]

I have an HX620 powering a WCd tower with dual 8800 GTXs that come WCd and OCd from BFG.

 

There is also the usual X-Fi gamer card, and an Adaptec RAID PCI-e with four Western Digital HDDs in 2 arrays - including a pair of the 10K variety.

 

The CPU is a QX6850 and is only 10% OCd via an up in multiplier from 9x to 10x and small increase in V.

 

The memory is Corsair 8500 pair, at stock 1066MHz/2.2V.

 

The mobo is an EVGA 680i (Black Pearl ==> WCd) with FSB at stock 1333MHz.

 

----

 

The problem is that while Quake4 and FarCry (1.4) run fine in SLI mode and maxed out, *none* of the Half Life games work correctly:

 

i.e. all of Half Life 2, Episode 1, Episode 2 and even the new Portal low-intensity game.

 

What happens is that either at the game menu or during the first scene grey corrupt areas appear - or u get every 2nd frame flash with such.

 

A similar effect is described in this 6 month long thread over here by others, including screen shots:

 

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=27157&st=20

 

According to them, the problem is the PSU is not "good enough" and the issue went away with a new PSU.

 

However, I have played BioShock at very high settings with not a single issue and it is definitely more graphically intensive than the basic Portal game or even the original Half Life 2.

 

* Can the HX620 such a setup as mine?

 

* Should I swap it out for a TX650?

 

Suspiciously, I notice the Corsair website says this about the latter:

 

"Dedicated single +12V rail offers maximum compatibility with latest components"

 

 

Finally, is my cabling correct? The BFG cards have:

a) 2x spots for the SLI connector - i've tried either with no difference

 

b) 2x spots for the 6-pin PCI power to connect to - the cards don't boot in the 1st spot, only in the 2nd.

 

c) The HX620 only comes with 2 (not 4) PCI leads that have a 6-pin and dangling 2-pin additional -- I'm only using one pair and only the 6-pins if that matters.

 

Sorry for the long email, but I've tried pretty much everything along the driver and settings lines and even voltage adjustments just in case - all to no effect.

[DerekT]

If you are playing such graphically intensive games as BIOSHOCK, there could well be issues with the HL engine and your setup. I think that the HX620 is enough for your system and your details strengthen that view. Keep in mind that you can pull 56Amps on the 12V Rail. However, with 2 X GTX's you do need 4 PCI-e connectors. Where are you pulling the power from for your other two connectors? Be sure to pull the power from the +12V rail and not the +3.3v or +5v Rail with adapters. The Corsair HX620 can pull the entire 600W on the 12V Rail with 56A as they use a dedicated pull which brings the three rails into a single transferable stream.

 

8800 GTX in Sli Mode ~= 360W

Your Overclocked Rig ~= 225W

Corsair 620HX will provide 600W on the +12V rail.

[tcassisi]

Oh no... since the HX620 only came with 2x PCIe 6-pin cables and the 8800 instructions didn't mention the need for 2 cables per card, I've been running on one per card.

 

Amazing that BioShock works like that, so it seems that the Half-life series is indeed the most GPU-intensive of all games so far.

 

Made the changes to this for each card:

* (as before) 1x PCIe 6 pin to one of the top two connectors on the HX620

* (new) 1x PCIe 6 pin -> 2x 4 pin -> y-splitter -> one 1x 4 pin

 

The latter 4 pin from each card are chained on the same lead and into one of the bottom connectors on the HX620.

 

Now the Half-life series do start properly, however, if I really push at key moments I can detect a small version of the grey pattern.

 

* Are all outputs from the HX620 "equal"? As per your comment, are some of these actually not the +12V rail?

 

* Does chaining have an impact? Would it be better to ensure that a dedicated HX620 output were used for each of the 2 additional combined 4 pins?

 

 

What's amazing is the impact adding those additional two connectors have done, even if chained: I've been able to reset all voltages back to their stock level (excl' the CPU).

 

Thanks!

[DerekT]

Are all outputs from the HX620 "equal"? As per your comment, are some of these actually not the +12V rail?

 

No, I m mean that the 3 12 Volt outputs can be considered as one full stream when the system needs to pull the power off of one. This means that whatever device requests more power on the 12V Rail will NOT be starved as most separate 12V rail PSU's could end up starving the device. You have NO worry with this and the Corsair HX620...

 

Does chaining have an impact? Would it be better to ensure that a dedicated HX620 output were used for each of the 2 additional combined 4 pins?

 

As long as you are chaining the two off of the 12V rail, then it will be fine with the Corsair HX620. With many power supplies that isolate the 12V Rails, you could have an impact, but not with the HX620. Corsair DID their research very well with the HX series. Be sure that the proprietary PCI-e for each card runs on the plug farthest away from the end of the board.

 

What's amazing is the impact adding those additional two connectors have done, even if chained: I've been able to reset all voltages back to their stock level (excl' the CPU).

 

Indeed, there was a power draw of voltage from the system since the cards were not being powered correctly. Well done! :)

[tcassisi]

Be sure that the proprietary PCI-e for each card runs on the plug farthest away from the end of the board

 

This is the only thing I've not tried yet? I don't see how the following could be a problem, but please correct me:

 

Card #1 - the 2 x HX620 PCI-e leads to the HX620

 

Card #2 - the 1 x split/combine -> the 1st in the chain into area below PCI-e slot #1

 

Same for 2nd, but into area below PCI-e slot #2.

 

(I.e. one of these chains has nothing else on it, the other does have my water pump/radiator but afterwards.)

 

The aim of the above was to ensure that only 2 x leads were present per "rail area" just in case, whereas before I had an unbalanced 3/1.

 

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With the above, I can only get the power related grey pattern issues when I really push the system at really complex parts of Half-Life 2/Ep2 (max out the aliasing for e.g.).

 

However, if I were to get a new monitor and go up one resolution....

 

Hence my (pedantic) conclusion has to be that the HX620 cannot fully power a twin pair of OC'd GX 8800's under "full stretch" for Half-Life 2/Ep 2 in my particular setup (22" resolution, 4 HDDs on an Adaptec Card, 10% OCd QX6850, Zalman Reserator, etc).

 

I have to stress that now I've got all 4 leads you have to really pick your moments to detect the issue so it must be about my OC'd setup - I only game occasionally so my goal of quiet/cool running has been fully met with game play fabulous at a 22" resolution and the HX620.

 

Thanks again for all your help! :biggrin:

[DerekT]

Hence my (pedantic) conclusion has to be that the HX620 cannot fully power a twin pair of OC'd GX 8800's under "full stretch" for Half-Life 2/Ep 2 in my particular setup (22" resolution, 4 HDDs on an Adaptec Card, 10% OCd QX6850, Zalman Reserator, etc).

 

This could well be. Certainly you have a pretty full system there.

 

I have to stress that now I've got all 4 leads you have to really pick your moments to detect the issue so it must be about my OC'd setup - I only game occasionally so my goal of quiet/cool running has been fully met with game play fabulous at a 22" resolution and the HX620.

 

Thanks again for all your help! :biggrin:

 

You're very welcome. Enjoy that rocking system :)

[RAM GUY]

If you do decide to upgrade, I would suggest the TX750 PSU.

[tcassisi]

1. Other threads in this forum indicate the TX series is far outside its noise specifications

 

At around 400W say, just how much difference is there in noise between the one u're suggesting and my one?

 

As of now, there is no reply to the thread in question.

 

 

 

2. So far only two situations have occurred indicating V or A is insufficient:

 

a) Half Life 2 - with AA above 4x i get a small area of grey pattern if i move the mouse quickly in one scene

 

b) Crysis - when using the telescopic zoom it becomes completely unusable during very complex scenes

 

 

I am just worried about adding 100W to the system and suddenly increasing my sound levels at non-gaming levels (say 400W).

 

 

3. Size/cables

 

How much bigger is the TX over the HX?

I have already setup all the HX modular cables: am I right in presuming the TX does not use that type?

 

Thanks.

[RAM GUY]

If you think that insufficient power is causing the errors you are having, I would recommend that you disconnect your second video card and see if you have the same issues with just one of the cards. With one of the cards you should be able to use both 6-pin PCI cables and if you are having the same issues, then that would suggest a driver/software conflict. If the problems go away when you are using just one card, then you may just need another set of PCI cables for your other card. You can request these by emailing ramguy@corsairmemory.com with your contact information. If you decide to get the whole unit replaced, please use the On Line RMA Request Form and we will be happy to replace it.

[tcassisi]

Your reply does not seem to be addressing the issues raised: specifically, if there is any noise increase at around 400W between the HX620 and TX750 in light of concerns I've seen about it and also my question about the cable system used.

 

Are you implying that there is a difference in using a second set of "official" cables from yourselves, rather than the usual messy PCI power -> 2xMolex -> Y-splitter back to 1xMolex?

 

If using the "official" cables for the 2nd connection (on each GPU) will give me a few A or V more then I'm willing to give it a try.

 

But I'd still appreciate some clarity around the TX series.

 

Thanks.

[RAM GUY]

TX750W Dimension: 5.9"(W) x 3.4"(H) X 6.3"(L)

HX620/520 Dimension: 5.9"(W) x 3.4"(H) X 5.9"(L)

 

All the cable information can be found in the product manuals listed below:

HX620/520 Manual

TX650/750 Manual

 

The PCI-E cables being used should not make any difference, if one of the cards was not getting sufficient power, then you would hear a warning beep from the card itself.

 

With a load of 400w the TX750 should actually be a little quieter based on noise level graphs found here:

HX series

TX750

 

Were you able to test the system using only one of the video cards?

[tcassisi]

Thanks for the info; looks like the size is fine, however, the TX750 manual does not state explicitly the cabling is Modular (like the HX620) - can u confirm this is indeed the case?

 

if one of the cards was not getting sufficient power, then you would hear a warning beep from the card itself.

 

This is not actually the case for me - or rather, presumably it will only occur under extreme under supply situations which have not happened to me:

 

1. Originally I was only running on a single PCI-E lead for each card as supplied with the HX620

 

2. No beeps or hardware or software messages ever occurred even though this caused an unbalanced system power wise which meant my PCI-X RAID card would randomly fail

 

3. Games like Bioshock (DX10), Quake4, et al worked fine at their maximum and in SLI mode

 

4. All Half-Life 2 variants would immediately degenerate into the 2nd GPU showing black/grey shapes - but no beeps or other messages occurred.

 

5. Once the 2nd (chained/split) leads were connected to both GPUs, the only problems that now occur are the 2 issues mentioned earlier in this posting both of which are clearly just smaller cases of the effects observed earlier.

 

 

When testing a PSU, it is clear that both GPUs must be appropriately pushed, something that only the Half-Life 2 series seems to do right now in the game sphere anyway.

 

Hence while the HX620 I'm using is absolutely brilliant in keeping quiet under normal use, the V or A is not sufficient to deal with my SLI GTXs in my system for the games for which they were designed.

 

Yes, my CPU and GTXs are OCd slightly and yes, I'm running 4 HDDs over a PCI-X RAID card with an external WC system also being powered off the HX620, so my system is at the very top of the power requirements for slightly OCd systems.

 

It is also perfectly possible that one of the "factory OCd GTXs" is drawing more power than it should, or has a defect that is somehow related to this, or that slot on the Mobo has issues et al.

 

However to prove the point I'd need both the equipment and some instructions on how to measure the power draw by my system from the HX620.

 

Unfortunately I cannot remove a GPU physically as this is a WCd system with little space left. Toggling the 2nd GPU off using the SLI software (or removing the bridge) naturally will cause the games to work fine as only the 1st GPU is being utilised - but only at far lower detail/resolution settings of course.

 

 

It looks like my choices are to either obtain some equipment to measure the draw (any recommendations?), or to rewire the system (since presumably the TX does not use the same cabling system as the HX) to use the TX750 and hope that the problem was really insufficient V/A and not something else.

 

 

Your thoughts appreciated.

[RAM GUY]

The TX750 does not have modular cables, they are fixed to the PSU. You may very well be having insufficient power. One last thing to try, would be to disconnect all the unnecessary components to reduce the power load and retest. Just keep 1 hard drive, 1 optical drive, your 2 video cards, CPU and mobo, and 2 memory modules. Disconnect the power to all other components and see if you have the same problems, also run the CPU and video cards at the default settings to test. If there is really an issue with insufficient power then with a reduced load like this, you should have no problems. If the problems persist, then there is probably a driver/software conflict somewhere.