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Qimonda vs Micron


XSidious

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I previously had the v1 micron 8500C5D dominators but one of them went bad and I sent them both back to recieve a matched pair. I got back the v2 Qimonda chips. I must say i am quite disappointed in the performance of these qimonda chips. The microns handled higher frequencies > 1230 mhz @ 5-5-5-15, and lower latencies 4-4-4-12 @ 1050. These Qimonda chips would not even do 950 4-4-4-12 no matter what voltage applied. 800-900 was possible but not over 900 mhz, giving the micron 150mhz more headroom. Also the qimonda would only do ~1130 mhz and not be fully stable. Because my processor is overclocked and my current ram sync options are 980 and 1171 at 1:1 and 4:5, i either can't boot at 1171 and have to settle for CAS 5 at 980 :(

Disappointed. These chips should not have made it into the Dominator series. It's a waste of heat spreader.

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There was no choice as Micron is no longer available, sorry about that. However, the modules are rated at Cas 5-5-5-15 at 2.1 Volts at 1066 FSB, I would suspect that might improve when the BIOS matures for your MB. But some modules will just over clock better than others even made with the Micron.
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  • 3 months later...

Qimonda versus Promos

 

Following on from the above, I just bought 2 kits of TWIN2X2048-6400C4DHX for 2 different systems. System 1 is the main priority, while System 2 is not as relied upon.

 

The 2 kits are ver. 2.1 & 4.1.

 

XMS640Xv2.x...PROMOS........64MX8...90nm

XMS640Xv4.x...QIMONDA......64Mx8...Rev.C

 

So my question is which are meant to be better, the Promos or the Qimondas?

 

Should I use the Promos in System 1?

 

Both systems are Q6600 with P35 Boards (P5K-E and GA-P35-DS3P) - will want to run them just over 3GHz.

 

Thanks

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Both parts are tested at the same spec (800MHz, 4-4-4-12 @ 2.1 volts) so there is no real way to see which part would overclock better until you try it. Its possible that some Promos would overclock better than Qimonda, and some Qimonda will overclock better than Promos. So the real answer is, go overclock both sets and see which one yields better results! Just keep in mind that just because one overclocks better than the other doesn't mean that those particular parts are better across the board.
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So my question is which are meant to be better, the Promos or the Qimondas?
The answer is NEITHER.
Well if your'e saying they're both bad, which is less bad, if the choice is between those 2 IC's?
One IC brand is not better or worse than the other in terms of meeting the Part Number specifications. You can compare different Part Numbers, and say that one is faster than the other (e.g. Twin2X8500 is faster than Twin2X6400), but that's by design. Ultimately memory companies across the board use multiple ICs within a part to satisfy market demand.

 

Like RG said, no one can guarantee what they'll OC to, you'll just have to test them.

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Thanks very much for your replies and I can see that you're both at pains to adopt the company line and that's fine … but what I'm looking for here is an answer that displays the benefit of your experience and anecdotal data.

 

I'm fully aware that there's a degree of pot luck and only testing with specific sticks will provide definitive answers “ceteris paribus” in a particular framework etc etc etc.

 

But that's not the answer I'm looking for.

 

The question is, with the benefit of your experience and the benefit of the multitude of feedback you would regularly receive, if you had to pick between DHX's with Qimonda or Promos IC's, which kit would you choose (before opening & testing them) based on whatever anecdotal feedback (or personal experience) has come in (or you’ve had) on these different revisions of the same product line.

 

ie. pretend you're in a shop and you need a kit and there's only the 2 abovementioned Kits available - which are you going to buy? ... and please don't say, flip a coin.

 

Thanks

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The MB's are P5K-E (or P5K Deluxe) and the GA-P35-DS3P. They are what I'd consider "better quality MB's" ... so maybe I should give the Quimonda's a shot in System 1??

 

When you say "a bit more compatible" re the Promos, have the Quimonda's had any compat issues with the Boards above & a Q6600 GO setup?

 

Other components:

HD's are Raptors in both Sys1 & Sys1 (and Sys1 will be running RAID0)

Gfx cards are 7900GS (Sys1) and 8800GTS (Sys2).

 

Cheers

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Thanks very much for your replies and I can see that you're both at pains to adopt the company line and that's fine
Nothing I've said is Corsair specific, and even though I'm a forum admin, I'm not a fanboy (yes, I know you haven't inferred this). Like we've said (and you've acknowledged), because of various factors, OC'ing is a crapshoot. Ram Guy's given you his opinion to your question (and will answer your other post tomorrow), so that's that.
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The MB's are P5K-E (or P5K Deluxe) and the GA-P35-DS3P. They are what I'd consider "better quality MB's" ... so maybe I should give the Quimonda's a shot in System 1??

 

A: Cannot go there, one MB over another is a conflict of interest for me and it's not fair of you to keep pussing that, so please quit. What I mean by better Quality MB is all MB makers make a Value line of MB and no matter who the MB maker is I would stay away from Value MB's in general.

 

When you say "a bit more compatible" re the Promos, have the Quimonda's had any compat issues with the Boards above & a Q6600 GO setup?

 

A: That was my opinion based on my experience in general and with both IC's, Quimonda is the newest into the market and new IC's sometimes take a few BIOS versions for MB makers to refine performance settings for new memory. Its nothing new, when Winbond first came out with the venarble Rev B IC there were seveal MB's that had issues in the begenning but that was quicky resolved

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My goodness gracious me. I really feel I need to say something which I'm sure many others think. What is going on with this Forum? Has a comprehension problem developed? I've been using Corsair Memory for many many years and this Forum (and many others) and previous incarnations of it for the same.

 

A simple question was asked and it has been dragged out to this exorbitant length because for some reason, either a lack of comprehension or paranoia has developed.

 

From where on earth do you get, "it's not fair of you to keep pussing that, so please quit"!!!

 

Can you please read what has been written. I don't want to push anything. I have asked one simple question from the outset which could have been answered very easily … but from the perceived reluctance to answer it square on, I have had to provide more information to narrow the question down for the SOLE purpose of couching the question in such a way that there would be no “generality” left to be used to avoid the answering of it!

 

And you have the temerity to say, “cannot go there” and stop pushing!!! No-one is asking for your opinion on Motherboard manufacturers. The information was provided PURELY because you mentioned Promos might be “more compatible”. Hence I specified the 2 Boards in the 2 Systems initially referred to – so any issue of compatibility or of lower end Boards could be removed from the equation.

 

As I said from the outset, my question was really very straightforward and I’m reasonably confident that in a Private Messaging situation, the issue would have been dealt with in 1 brief PM. Instead I’ve received canned responses suitable for someone who has never bought Memory in their life – as opposed to someone very experienced in these matters but looking for CURRENT Feedback from people who are in the loop on a daily basis. There is a big difference between these 2 types of customers IMHO and the way their queries should be dealt with. A lesson could be taken from the ******** Specialist Forum in this regard.

 

Anyway, congratulations … you have managed to unnecessarily disappoint a long standing customer of Corsair. Hopefully it will be temporary.

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1st Question:

Qimonda vs Micron

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I previously had the v1 micron 8500C5D dominators but one of them went bad and I sent them both back to recieve a matched pair. I got back the v2 Qimonda chips. I must say i am quite disappointed in the performance of these qimonda chips. The microns handled higher frequencies > 1230 mhz @ 5-5-5-15, and lower latencies 4-4-4-12 @ 1050. These Qimonda chips would not even do 950 4-4-4-12 no matter what voltage applied. 800-900 was possible but not over 900 mhz, giving the micron 150mhz more headroom. Also the qimonda would only do ~1130 mhz and not be fully stable. Because my processor is overclocked and my current ram sync options are 980 and 1171 at 1:1 and 4:5, i either can't boot at 1171 and have to settle for CAS 5 at 980 :(

Disappointed. These chips should not have made it into the Dominator series. It's a waste of heat spreader.

 

And the answer was quite clear and to the point:

 

There was no choice as Micron is no longer available, sorry about that. However, the modules are rated at Cas 5-5-5-15 at 2.1 Volts at 1066 FSB, I would suspect that might improve when the BIOS matures for your MB. But some modules will just over clock better than others even made with the Micron.

 

And that led to the Next Questions on what Micron was making and again the answer was to the point and one for Micron to address:

 

You would have to ask Micron for their perspective, but they are no longer making the D9 Rev any more as far as I know.

 

Then you asked:

Qimonda versus Promos

So my question is which are meant to be better, the Promos or the Qimondas?

And the answer was:

Wired The answer is NEITHER.

 

And since Wired's answer was correct and what I would say I did not address it. But to add to what you asked Micron D9 are or were the best IC for over clocking but they are no longer available to us and the replacment or follow on from Micron is worse then other IC's on the market for the products we make and or performance guidelines that have been established. And the choice of IC's is somewhat limited IE both IC's we are using meet that speed grade and both parts have been qualified and will run at the rated spec DDR1066 Cas 5-5-5-15 at 2.1 Volts.

 

Then it has came to this:

As I said from the outset, my question was really very straightforward and I’m reasonably confident that in a Private Messaging situation, the issue would have been dealt with in 1 brief PM. Instead I’ve received canned responses suitable for someone who has never bought Memory in their life – as opposed to someone very experienced in these matters but looking for CURRENT Feedback from people who are in the loop on a daily basis. There is a big difference between these 2 types of customers IMHO and the way their queries should be dealt with. A lesson could be taken from the ******** Specialist Forum in this regard.

 

And the Question that I see you asked:

The question is, with the benefit of your experience and the benefit of the multitude of feedback you would regularly receive, if you had to pick between DHX's with Qimonda or Promos IC's, which kit would you choose (before opening & testing them) based on whatever anecdotal feedback (or personal experience) has come in (or you’ve had) on these different revisions of the same product line.

And I gave you a direct answer:

 

RAM GUY I would probably go with Promos they seem to be a bit more compatible, but I think Quimonda will over clock better in a better quality MB.

 

 

Next you asked:

When you say "a bit more compatible" re the Promos, have the Quimonda's had any compat issues with the Boards above & a Q6600 GO setup?

 

And my answer was:

A: That was my opinion based on my experience in general and with both IC's, Quimonda is the newest into the market and new IC's sometimes take a few BIOS versions for MB makers to refine performance settings for new memory. Its nothing new, when Winbond first came out with the venarble Rev B IC there were seveal MB's that had issues in the begenning but that was quicky resolved

 

The statement about specific MB's is something that I cannot address, as I said it will create a conflict of interest for me and my opinion on what MB's are high quality may differ from someone else and would have little to do with supporting our memory. I think maybe the way I posted may have upset you and I am sorry for that but please see my side, in a public forum if you are the professional you say then surely you understand the need to keep things neutral with respect to other manufacturers. You are welcome to call and ask for me or any one is; I am always happy to help any one with more details about any system if I am available but any of our support staff are more than capable of assiting any question any one might have 800-205-7657.

 

 

Bottom line I am sorry but as I see I have asnwered your questions, I am not clear on what you want me to say that you think will be different then I would answer to someone else. Not to mention you are not the orginal posted by screen name and have jumped in on someone elses post.

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All I see here is complete confusion and the main cause I see is a lack of comprehension (not Technical comprehension, rather English comprehension).

 

Why are you quoting long bursts from other people’s posts?

 

I posted my query in the OP’s thread because there was a logical nexus! His comment was that he was disappointed that Qimonda chips made it into the Dominator series. He was comparing Qimonda to D9’s. That was back in September.

 

Instead of starting a new Thread, I continued in his because my question was very relevant, ie. from a consumer point of view, does a particular revision of the same branded Kit have any benefit over another – the type of query that this Forum was built on back in the BH-5 3500C2 halcyon days.

 

That’s why I said “Following on from the above” but made it very clear that my comparison was re Qimonda versus Promos and not Qimonda versus D9. It's comical that you'd call it "jumping in" as if it were something negative.

 

Then Wired posted an answer which you have just, to my dismay, applauded but which I consider to be a mischievous response to the detailed question I asked. I would have preferred no answer to that one … as would any competent operator.

 

If you read through the Thread carefully, with a calm head instead of this angry confused stance you’ve adopted, you will see that what I have written is correct in every respect. You must have a lot of Threads to respond to (and I appreciate that) and normally “RAM GUY” does a very good job but on this occasion, perhaps in your haste, you’ve been thrown by the original posts and somehow thought I was asking a general question, when I was not. My question was very specific and in all the babble that has been written, here is the only relevant response.

 

“I would probably go with Promos they seem to be a bit more compatible, but I think Quimonda will over clock better in a better quality MB”

 

ie. that’s it … one sentence in all of it.

 

Are you getting my point?

 

In everything that’s been written since I posted, that is the only sentence that could be called an answer to the question that was asked.

 

 

PS. Just to put this Motherboard red herring to rest, no-one was asking you to comment about a M/B or to do anything that would put you in a “conflict of interest” situation. But what anyone would expect a Corsair Memory expert to do, is report if there are any known compatibility issues with a particular model of Corsair Memory and a particular Motherboard. That’s a Corsair product question, NOT a Motherboard question.

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:eek: O.K. I think its best if you call our Tech support and we will be happy to help you 510-657-8747 Option 2, and our hours are from 8:30 AM to 5:30 PM Pacific Time Monday through Friday excluding holidays! And Tuesday the 1st of January 2008 we will not be in the office.
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Why are you quoting long bursts from other people’s posts?
To me, it looks like he's summarizing the thread and displaying the relevant pieces of information to answer your questions.

 

 

Then Wired posted an answer which you have just, to my dismay, applauded but which I consider to be a mischievous response to the detailed question I asked. I would have preferred no answer to that one … as would any competent operator.
Here's my POV on this. You want to know what you can eek the most performance out of, above the rated timings / voltage / speed. For various reasons, the question simply can't be answered. There's no clear choice here like there used to be (e.g. D9s, or BH-5s). Those were ICs where, IMHO, they almost consistently OC'd up and above anything else. Like all ICs within a given line, there are differences between batches, and as such, their OCing potential can vary. Now, to more directly respond to your dismay over my statement of saying that P v Q = neither. Neither one is meant to be better than the other. Like Ram Guy said, they both meet Corsair's specs for that part number. If they find out that they can use it for a faster part, then I'd imagine they would. The only ones that are meant to be faster than others are when you compare part numbers, which notate the memory size / speed / timings that they are guaranteed to run at.

 

I understand that you want to OC them, and that's fine, but there's just no clear choice as to which IC is better in that regard. It just comes down to the variance in silicon from batch to batch. It's like comparing a Honda Civic to a Toyota Corolla. They'll perform similarly, even when tweaked. And yes, I picked 2 cars at random, damned if I know if one's faster than another :)

 

 

If you read through the Thread carefully, with a calm head instead of this angry confused stance you’ve adopted...
Honestly, I think you're just reading too much into it. Inferring attitude from text often gives incorrect opinions, which is why the emoticon was born :) :biggrin: :):

 

 

Just to put this Motherboard red herring to rest, no-one was asking you to comment about a M/B or to do anything that would put you in a “conflict of interest” situation. But what anyone would expect a Corsair Memory expert to do, is report if there are any known compatibility issues with a particular model of Corsair Memory and a particular Motherboard. That’s a Corsair product question, NOT a Motherboard question.
There is no red herring. Ram Guy commented his personal opinion of the OC potential based on the IC and quality of mobos. You then asked about IC compatibility issues with motherboards. I'd imagine if there were a known issue, it would be posted on the Known Issues forum, or pubicly released in some other fashion. The only IC compatibility issues that I can recall from the past (between memory stick and motherboard) always ended up being due to BIOS issues that were resolved with an update by the BIOS manufacturer.

 

Either way, call in and I'm sure RG and his guys will take care of all of your questions.

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You just won’t let it go. You’ve entrenched yourself in error and you want to continue with the error. Please take a note from the post above yours (not that it said anything of benefit but at least it didn't go on with the mistaken comprehension), ie. if you don’t “get it” already, please just leave it.

 

I’ll have one last shot in the hope you might finally get the point.

 

To me, it looks like he's summarizing the thread and displaying the relevant pieces of information to answer your questions.

 

For whose benefit? The summary has ZERO to do with my question. This is a case of a lack of English comprehension or reading/responding in haste.

 

 

You want to know what you can eek the most performance out of, above the rated timings / voltage / speed.

 

Completely wrong again.

 

 

Honestly, I think you're just reading too much into it. Inferring attitude from text often gives incorrect opinions.

 

While I agree that "inferring attitude from text" may, for some, lead to incorrect conclusions, all I’ll say to that comment in the context of this particular Thread, is just read the Thread. I’m confident my conclusion is accurate.

 

 

There is no red herring. Ram Guy commented his personal opinion of the OC potential based on the IC and quality of mobos. You then asked about IC compatibility issues with motherboards.

 

 

Wrong again. The SOLE reason “compatibility” was brought into the equation was because the SOLE relevant response to my query, namely, “I would probably go with Promos they seem to be a bit more compatible, but I think Quimonda will over clock better in a better quality MB” raised the issue of compatibility. That’s it, no other reason.

 

He made the comment that Promos “seem to be a bit more compatible”. Once that comment was made, it was only natural to query if there were any known compatibility issues with the two Motherboards stated in my original query.

 

Finally, if you’re trying to help, it hasn’t worked. Without putting too finer point on it, I strongly suggest that you read questions and who they’re from, more carefully before responding to them. You may be trying to help and kudos to you for that but in this particular case you have only hindered.

 

PS. And the fact you keep restating boilerplate stuff that anyone who has been doing this for a while would be well aware of, does not in any way benefit Corsair’s cause.

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To me, it looks like he's summarizing the thread and displaying the relevant pieces of information to answer your questions.

[/Quote]

For whose benefit?
You're not the only one reading this thread. Others are reading it now, and will read it in the future. However, they may not bother to read the whole thread depending on how they got here (e.g. a google search taking them directly to a post). Or perhaps it's just his posting style. Either way, he chose to summarize the thread, which doesn't affect anything else, so I'm moving on.

 

 

 

You want to know what you can eek the most performance out of, above the rated timings / voltage / speed.
Completely wrong again.
If I'm wrong about you wanting to OC, then why does the IC matter? Your original question was
which are meant to be better, the Promos or the Qimondas?
If they both meet the needed specs, then the answer IS neither. They both do the job. Memory is marketed based upon its speed / timing / voltage, not on the particular IC it uses. If you've seen marketing that has specifically stated which IC a memory module uses, I'd like to see it, because I haven't before. (I'm excluding ones where the memory module and IC makers are one and the same).

 

Which IC is being used is only useful knowledge in 2 cases that I can think of: OC'ing, and compatibility. In my book, "better" would apply much more to the former than the latter, but that's just my interpretation.

 

Now you didn't state anything about compatibility until RG did, so perhaps this is the direct question that should be answered by Corsair on Monday to fully answer your questions (which are indeed valid) concerning compatibility:

 

Are there any known compatibility issues between any version of TWIN2X2048-6400C4DHX and any motherboards? Or to expand it further, are there any known issues between any Corsair modules and any motherboards?

 

What I'd add on to this is that if there is indeed a known issue, could it please be posted in the Known Issues forum so it could help out the most people?

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  • 1 month later...

I don't think it was meant toward you.....but kinda like enjoying the show. So the drama LOL.

 

You guys have some serious patience! I too just sat back as well since you guys answered his questions completely. That wasn't helping I figured adding more info would just upset him more.

 

 

OP when two ICs are made similar to meet same exact specs the only real diff will be in the UNIQUENESS of the manufacture process. Meaning each IC is diff one from next. Two of same exact model perform slightly diff. You want to know which is BEST for that PC, only way is like always test it. Just cause one IC clocks higher for you wont mean anything to the next guy prob. HE could have same exact mobo and all. Again he would have to test.

 

I have same ram as my friend IC's and everything. Motherboards are same, same revision (5.0) same bios (latest). Mine hits 4-4-4-15 at stock volts. His wont go past 5-5-5-15 (stock 5-5-5-18). SO as you can see no two ram sticks are the same, and sets of ram just add to that random result. No two mobos will hit same fsb either, you want a solid answer to a random equation -when it doesn't exist.

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The really funny thing is that Micron is no more at least in DDR2 for that IC, there might be small quantities floating around but not enough to build any volume. And that is the problem that every one seems to be over looking. If we could make a specific module and we know it runs great why would we change that if we did not have to? While I understand we all want to keep the same items we like to use, but that is just not how life is. It's subject to change and there is little we can do other than to accept it and move on. And for us we have to get ready for the next build.
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