Ques /w OCing TWIN2X2048-6400PRO & CPU

[desikida]

Hi guys - These forums seem very active and have had some questions answered in the past from reading other posts - Hoping anyone of ya out there could give me a hand with OC'ing cpu/ram ... having some problems and queries.

 

RIG Setup is:

P5N32-SLI SE DELUXE

Intel Pentium D 950 800FSB base 3.4ghz

CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 PC2 6400

TWIN2X2048-6400PRO 5-5-5-12 1.9V

8800 GTX BFG Video Card (originally thought I had issues with the 8800 but alas it does seem flawless and was simply/is still being extremely bottlenecked by my cpu) [side note* for 3Dmark06 OCed cpu at ~890FSB I get around 8300-8400 points with a OC cpu score of about ~1900 after my queries are remedied/learn more I plan to OC it to 4 ghz ~940FSB]

 

 

Well I've been OCing and flashing my bios to the most recent 0603 and what not and have been able to get my system to OC manually and with preselected profile settings etc. Still not very good at it (barely know what exactly I'm doing) but I use this "linked" command with OCing in the bios so that I only adjust the FSB speed i.e. 890 mhz then the memory is auto adjusted and clock of the cpu as well bringing it up to about 3.7ghz.

 

**note the SPD always stays the same for one being ~270 and the other ~400 adding to ~667 mhz.. I asked The magnificent RAMguy about this and that is due to the processor.. the processor having an FSB of 800 mhz will only support 667 mhz timed ram... so that's kinda a waste of ram until I get a better cpu..wish I had known that before, but live and learn, it shouldn't adversely affect me too badly..i hope.**

 

Now my problem is as the screen shots below will show you while using preset profile command set for ~FSB890 mhz I get results that look like this (pay attention to memory tab as this is where I am confused and baffled at the results)

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/desikida/CpuzOCProfile890FSB.jpg

 

Now using a manually linked command and manually putting in ~890mhzFSB and leaving the computer to auto adjust memory I get this:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/desikida/cpuzOCmanually890fsb.jpg

 

And finally no overclock at all it looks like this:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/desikida/cpuNOToc.jpg

 

Now my questions:

 

1) Looking at solely the memory tab the frequency reads i.e. for one of them read 449mhz does that mean total 449 mhz or is it double or.. what? I’m not sure if that’s high or very very low, takes into account one DIMM or both etc.. mainly confused cause the SPD reads 2 different dimms I believe thus one is rated ~400 other ~270 so does the memory tab show which one.. or both.. (if both that must be horrid!) etc??.

 

2) Whenever I over-clock at all and allow the memory do auto adjust ( I do this namely because whenever I try to manipulate the memory/clocks to say 4-4-4.. or something it never loads up so I just leave it on auto, there are values you can enter for the memory if you choose manual which start at 800 like the FSB, but really don’t understand what I should enter there etc.) Why when I OC my FSB do the timings go up (i.e. worse) instead of going down, though the frequency improves?

 

3) I had read briefly that to OC correctly it has to do with the multiplier of your cpu, and the FSB:DRAM ratio – Has anyone knowledge on this to share as it was not explained.. it just said something similar to the fact they are related

 

4) I’m sure I’m doing something wrong so any advice would be most welcome for this. I.e. what do I want the memory to look like after OCing the FSB, any other settings to try.. a good combo of settings.. or really just anything .. the more specific the better!

 

5) There is an "enable/disable optimal memory mode" option in the bios.. same with CPU, they are defaulted to disabled. I read about them but I still fail to understand/comprehend the explanations - Should I leave them disabled?

 

Any help, suggestions, anything would be very helpful for a newbie OCer I've managed to get this far from the ASUS manual, other forum posts, tutorials and what have you. :confused:

 

EDIT: **oh and another side note I also ran diagnostics using memtest86+ and after 45 min - an hour or so I passed with zero errors so the RAM should be functioning correctly, although still confused as to why it said memory was 200 mhz (ddr400) .. Does that mean it was reading each dimm at 400 mhz due to the 'ddr' and thus total of 800 mhz or is it only reading each at 200mhz.. ??.. it sounds suspicious and frightening.**

 

EDITx2: Read another OCing guide, but again doesn't cover specifics queried above, in fact, it added questions to the list such as taking into consideration the CPU Voltage and Ram Voltage. How much.. to increase the cpu Voltage with xx increase in FSB.. etc? Also made me more confused with the multiplier.. hopefully will not have to change multiplier as there is no setting I have found in this mobo's bios for it, just FSB, Memory, Voltages (all on auto as they do not display exactly what they are set to in the bios)

[DerekT]

At stock, your FSB is 200 and your memory is running at 400MHz x 2 = 800Mhz

 

Still, CPU-z shows you the 400Mhz and then below you will notice that your FSB:DRAM is 1:2

 

Your 200Mhz FSB multiplied by 2 is 400Mhz which is your CPU Frequency and in double data rate is 800mz

 

If you look to your ratio, then you will understand what is happening with all your overclocks.

 

11:14 as your first graphic shows an ~220MHz FSB. Your memory is now running at 279MHz X 2 = 558Mhz

 

Thus you have now raised both your FSB and your dram.

 

In the third example you have a 222 FSB and your memory is running at 445 X 2 = 890Mhz

 

1:2 is your ratio. FSB = 222MHz and your dram is 444Mhz.

 

Again, you have raised your dram (albeit more highly than the previous example) while raising your FSB.

 

You want to raise your fsb, whilst raising your dram and have both running with stability.

 

I would leave your settings at their "Auto" settings until you research each setting to find out what they are and what they accomplish.

[desikida]

Thank you!, makes more sense now..however more questions in response to those answers:

 

A) You said "You want to raise your fsb, whilst raising your dram and have both running with stability." So - considering from that third picture my system was running stable with that OC of RAM to: 444.9x2=890 mhz and FSB is 222mhz - If continued to run stable then this is a decent OC?

 

B) The terminology confuses me - In the Bios I am able to change the "FSB Clock (Mhz)" Only in linked mode.. and I change that value to the 889 mhz. Thus it is actually referring to the fact I'm changing the "RATED FSB" not the FSB or else I would be inputting 222.4 mhz? Correct?

 

Then I suppose if I wanted to do it manual for both (which I presume I won't and depend on preset changes to the memory with change in FSB) then I would enter the memory target of i.e. 444.9 I'm betting it's best to let memory change via linked mode only - to be safe.

 

C) Last thing from your response that confuses me is - If my ram is truly running at 889 mhz.. which I thought was impossible - Why does it still say under SPD that it is 270, 4-4-4-13-15 and another slot with 400, 5-5-5-18-22 as shown in the second picture.. the SPD remains that way regardless of OC - Which I had interpreted as always reading ~670 mhz. But then the memory tab only displays one number, taking into account a total of both DIMMs? of that value or is it a combination of the two to get to the (ddrx2=~889 mhz?) Know how to explain this one to me? (basically under the impression from the SPD that one dimm is not acting as high as another dimm)

 

Thanks a bunch again, I'm sure these are simple questions for ya guys, really appreciate the help considering OC guides really don't pinpoint small newbie issues :):

[DerekT]

Thank you!, makes more sense now..however more questions in response to those answers:

 

A) You said "You want to raise your fsb, whilst raising your dram and have both running with stability." So - considering from that third picture my system was running stable with that OC of RAM to: 444.9x2=890 mhz and FSB is 222mhz - If continued to run stable then this is a decent OC?

 

That would be the settings I would pick. It is the best of your overclocks since the DRAM is high and the FSB is high.

 

B) The terminology confuses me - In the Bios I am able to change the "FSB Clock (Mhz)" Only in linked mode.. and I change that value to the 889 mhz. Thus it is actually referring to the fact I'm changing the "RATED FSB" not the FSB or else I would be inputting 222.4 mhz? Correct?

 

Link mode means that your DRAM and FSB are linked. A raise of one will concurrently raise the other. This is the best mode with that board actually. You will find your best performance in linked mode even if the numbers might seem to belie this.

 

Then I suppose if I wanted to do it manual for both (which I presume I won't and depend on preset changes to the memory with change in FSB) then I would enter the memory target of i.e. 444.9 I'm betting it's best to let memory change via linked mode only - to be safe.

 

LOL You answered my last answer :) Not only safer though, it is a better performing mode as your CPU and DRAM "Speak" to each other at the same speed.

 

C) Last thing from your response that confuses me is - If my ram is truly running at 889 mhz.. which I thought was impossible - Why does it still say under SPD that it is 270, 4-4-4-13-15 and another slot with 400, 5-5-5-18-22 as shown in the second picture.. the SPD remains that way regardless of OC - Which I had interpreted as always reading ~670 mhz. But then the memory tab only displays one number, taking into account a total of both DIMMs? of that value or is it a combination of the two to get to the (ddrx2=~889 mhz?) Know how to explain this one to me? (basically under the impression from the SPD that one dimm is not acting as high as another dimm)

 

SPD (Serial Presence Detect) is a method that allows the memory controller to read these settings and when in that FSB to then set the timings to that mode. SPD is not very useful unless you keep to that exact FSB/DRAM speed and for overclocking it is best not to even think of SPD because you will never be at those settings, you will be higher and then they mean nothing as the system memory controller will not make use of them.

 

The SPD is no more than a "table" of Speed --> Timings and will never change and does not apply unless you have set your system at AUTO and Default which as an overclocker, you will not be doing :)

[desikida]

Wow all right you rock! :D: - I didn't think I would learn so much in one night as opposed to the last week researching other posts! Few more to verify and sum up/clarify a few loose ends then -

 

 

So each dimm is actually being OCed to reach a combination result of over 800mhz? Or is it safe to say each is reading 200mhz(ddr=x2=400mhz thus 2 dimms = 800mhz)?

 

 

Then there were those options to enable memory/cpu optimal modes in my bios.. still not sure about what those really do.. but doesn't seem to effect the OC one way or the other.

 

 

Voltages! - I read that this D950 can stay at it's stock voltage up to ~4ghz by some during my research rampage. In the bios I have left the voltages to "auto" for both memory and cpu, and cpu reads as 1.2v using CPUZ as you saw. Any recommendations on voltages? (The guides usually say to increase very little if any, not sure how to know if I need to increase the voltage) And I'm not sure if I should set the memory to 2.1 voltage as I read in other posts for the corsair ram?

 

 

 

After these I think I'm going to try a 235-FSB thus a 940 rated and ~4ghz OC and monitor temperatures and benchmarks, and a couple hours of memtest86+ ! :biggrin:

 

 

Thanks for baring with the redundant questions!

[DerekT]

So each dimm is actually being OCed to reach a combination result of over 800mhz? Or is it safe to say each is reading 200mhz(ddr=x2=400mhz thus 2 dimms = 800mhz)?

 

Yes DDR (Double Data Rate) in Dual Channel mode. 200MHz x 2 = 400 X 2 = 800. Keep in mind that this is a theoretical maximum bandwidth.

 

Then there were those options to enable memory/cpu optimal modes in my bios.. still not sure about what those really do.. but doesn't seem to effect the OC one way or the other.

 

The effects on that board will be minimal in the real world (much of the time) but for the anal "Tweaker" they help to "Pass the Time" :p

 

Voltages! - I read that this D950 can stay at it's stock voltage up to ~4ghz by some during my research rampage. In the bios I have left the voltages to "auto" for both memory and cpu, and cpu reads as 1.2v using CPUZ as you saw. Any recommendations on voltages? (The guides usually say to increase very little if any, not sure how to know if I need to increase the voltage) And I'm not sure if I should set the memory to 2.1 voltage as I read in other posts for the corsair ram?

 

Keep in mind that "Auto" settings are not static mode settings. When you set voltages to "Auto" the system automatically looks to necessary raises to run the necessary speeds. For example, if you were to manually set your default CPU voltage, then you would have it static. It would not raise automatically.

 

Setting the Vdimm can help when your memory is not running your required bandwidth/timings without erroring. I only raise voltages when instability occurs in my overclock. I never raise for the sake of raising them although many who are impatient or not knowledgeable do this to gain stability on an instable system. Since Corsair guarentees this dram at 2.1 Vdimm for life, there really is no problem with running them at 2.1 Vdimm. For me though, raised voltages equates to raised thermals and I like my system running to as close as stock voltages as possible. Keep in mind, that if you want this dram to run well, you will need higher voltages. I would try setting the Vdimm to 2.1 and the timings to 4 - 4 - 4 - 12. If they run memtest (http://www.memtest.org) stable then you can lower the Vdimm to 2.0 and retest until you find them running instable. When you find that instability you can then raise the Vdimm by 0.1v.

 

After these I think I'm going to try a 235-FSB thus a 940 rated and ~4ghz OC and monitor temperatures and benchmarks, and a couple hours of memtest86+ ! :biggrin:

 

I would say that you will definitely need to raise your Vdimm to ~2.1 to gain 1:1 CPU:DRAM.

 

You are very welcome. Have fun with the clocking, and let us know how it goes.

[wun911]

You run a PC that is almost the same as mine!

 

P5N32 SLI Deluxe

P4 960

TWIN2X2048-6400PRO (The ones with the blinking lights)

 

I can raise the FSB to about 985 (stock is 800)

So my 3.6 turned into 4.4

 

But I cant seem to push my ram past 802 (800 stock)

So I decided to lower the times to 4.4.4.12

 

How many volts are you pushing into your CPU and RAM?

[desikida]

I have my rated FSB still at 887.8 so I'm up from 3.4 to ~3.8ghz

 

I still haven't decided whether to try to set my ram to lower timings or continue OCing to ~940 fsb.. Haven't had much time lately to play with it.. a bit nervous to do so as well.. and the bios for changing timings is giving me a headache on which ones to choose so I need to research which each name corresponds to which # to change etc hehe :p

 

Well that and I don't want to OC my ram anymore.. I suppose I could switch it over to manual and try to increase just processor with ram remaining same.. no idea.

 

My CPU voltage is still the default ~1.2 but its on auto I watch it jump from 1.216-1.232, Still kicking myself for not buying a core 2 duo i think the difference is HUGE on performance between the two. at least OCed right now my score in 3dmark06 my cpu gets ~1900 whereas stock core 2 duo only like 30 bucks more expensive does ~2000 score not OCed

 

 

Voltage on my memory - at this overclock I was having trouble in games after awhile despite it passing memtest86+ so I set it permanently to 2.1volts

That's another issue.. I don't want to have to increase the ram voltage anymore .. so Ill decrease the timings to 4-4-4-12 like you and see what happens.. eventually..well if you could tell me which ones you changes that'd be very helpful.

 

That's odd you can't change the ram.. very easy for me to do so.. not sure if thats a good thing or not though might cause damage to them sooner - I use solely linked mode at the moment.. .. that's very odd then your ram should be way OCed if you were using linked mode and managed to shoot the processor up that high...

 

Let me know! - and you can buy two core 2 duos.. one for me :p:

 

 

EDIT - oh and my memory timings at the moment are set to auto and result in 5-6-6-21-25 at 443.9 mhz ratio of 1:2.. still confused on the ratio thing.

[desikida]

Weird on linked mode I can boost it up to over 800 mhz but on manual I can only let the memory go to ~800 tops but at the moment its set to 667 and I increased the FSB to 235 or in other words it's sitting at 4.0 ghz

 

The memory tab in cpuz is set to 335.7 mhz with a ratio of 7:10 and 5-5-5-16

 

Can I have some feedback whether this OC is better or worse than my previous OC of 3.8 ghz 444.9 memory 1:2 5-6-6-21?

[DerekT]

Weird on linked mode I can boost it up to over 800 mhz but on manual I can only let the memory go to ~800 tops but at the moment its set to 667 and I increased the FSB to 235 or in other words it's sitting at 4.0 ghz

 

The memory tab in cpuz is set to 335.7 mhz with a ratio of 7:10 and 5-5-5-16

 

Can I have some feedback whether this OC is better or worse than my previous OC of 3.8 ghz 444.9 memory 1:2 5-6-6-21?

 

If you test some benchmarks you will find for yourself. My personal view is the highest FSB with the RAM running 1:1 gives the best and most stable system. Ratios of 7:10 will show better in canned benchmarks and if SuperPi scores are important to you then by all means use them. However, in the real world, if you were to bench real world applications such as loading a 20MB RAW graphic in Photoshop and render it into a TIFF you would find little difference. Tighter timings will show you a greater difference.

 

For example. My system is running Corsair 8500C5's at 800Mhz with 4 - 3 - 3 - 10 timings. My FSB is 400 X 4 (Quad Pumped) = 1600Mhz, my DRAM is 800Mhz X 2 (Dual Channel) = 1600Mhz to give me a 1:1 ratio. The timings at 800Mhz give me a faster performing system than having the dram running at 1000Mhz with 5 - 5 - 5 - 15.

 

So it is up to you how you want your system to perform. By the way, what is the exact model of your ram?

[desikida]

Aye I did a benchmark with 3dmark06 and get higher scores with the higher FSB and lower memory.... that's just very hard to decide then, I can't really tell between the two if my games are performing better.. definitely frames arn't that much better between the two different OCs.. I should just fork out 500 bucks for a core 2 duo - then maybe I won't lag in big mmorpgs like LOTROnline beta or other high performance demanding i.e. NWN2 - that and I think my video card is crying for not being able to stretch its legs.

 

 

RAM STOCK IS: CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 PC2 6400 TWIN2X2048-6400PRO 5-5-5-12 1.9V

 

I need someone with exact same setup and tell me what exactly to set either at haha - even with 4 ghz I'm not noticing my cpu getting above 40C nor have I had to put more voltage into it.

[DerekT]

There is no doubt that your CPU is the bottleneck on that system. I'm not very big on Nvidia based chipsets for Intel CPU's though.

 

You might end up with even more issues when you install are Core2 on that board.

[desikida]

Well I think if I did upgrade the CPU which I don't plan to for another year, It will be fine with this setup - Just probably not so fine for overclocking (I think that's what you meant)

 

 

All right been trying to OC my RAM a bit and tried 4-4-4-12 and system became unstable bsod.. reset during gameplay - So my question is which do i exactly what to change in the bios there are as follows when set to manual:

 

CAS Latency

tRCD

tRP

tRAS

tRC

Address

 

In that order - I tried setting first 4 as 4-4-4-12 and failed. Which do I want to change.. were those right.. suggestions? Thanks!

 

EDIT: All right I think I was doing it right I decided to set first three to 4-4-4 and left tRAS on auto.. defaulted to 16 so 4-4-4-16 are my timings and so far so stable.

[DerekT]

Did you set the Vdimm (DRAM Voltage) to 2.1v?

[desikida]

Yes it's set to 2.1volts

[DerekT]

All right I think I was doing it right I decided to set first three to 4-4-4 and left tRAS on auto.. defaulted to 16 so 4-4-4-16 are my timings and so far so stable.

 

Good thinking. Well done. Those Nvidia boards are a touchy lot. :)

[desikida]

Bah-Humbug!

 

System became unstable (BSOD, reset) during game play. I've decided memtest86+ is utterly useless. I let it run for 2 hours completed 4 cycles and all passed. I played CS:Source then NWN2 and neither lasted longer than 45 minutes and got the dreaded BSOD with a reset.

 

I now left the ram to its default, and link oced it to an FSB of 888 bringing her back to my previous post of ~3.8 ghz and system is stable with nearly 4 hours of heavy game play.

 

What frustrates me more than the fact I am unable to lower the timings of the memory is when I try to do it manually.. and plug in same exact values but it does not except them, only on linked will it work. I.e. if I try to manually OC the FSB then manually set the Memory.. It out right refuses unless I lower the memory to ~667mhz. But can't make it manually do 888 fsb with the ~444 mhz ddr - thus can not push it any further unless I wanted to OC my memory a ton as well.. which I don't. Strange isn't that?.. .The motherboard must be to blame?.. Curse her. :evil:

[DerekT]

I am in the industry and I have to say that on a percentage of returns, there is no doubt that Nvidia based Intel boards have more issues than all the main Intel boards (ASUS, Gigabyte) combined. That is a considerable reason why I refuse to advise anyone to purchase a Nvidia based Intel CPU motherboards.

[desikida]

Good to know for the future - so far this OC will just have to work I suppose - IT's not bad but could be a lot better given a better mobo - thanks for all your help with this.. I'll be back if I find more things annoying. :eek:

[DerekT]

Sure thing and please keep us updated as it helps to find all the characteristics of these boards. :)