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Loss of Faith TwinX3200C2PT


DCKC

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I have just purchased a set of TWINX1024 - 3200C2PT for a new build.

 

Now this is advertised with a latency of 2-3-3-6 / 400Mhz, But SPD detects These modules as 3-3-3-8, confirmed with CPUz and Memtest, in both a Giga NF2 and MSI K8T Neo.

 

Now I assume, and from trawling through various posts and forums, this means that the memory is supposedly guaranteed for 2-3-3-6 (Label Indicating CL2), and the SPD reported is the JEDEC rating, or what the memory should be.

 

This would be a fair enough explanation, but if so, why is this not mentioned when purchasing, and how is it that I am pretty much certain, that I have used Corsair Modules in the past, that have reported SPD as advertised ?

 

For example, a recent friends woe with his 1024 - 3200XLPT, posted elsewhere on this forum. His is rated at 2-2-2-5 / 400Mhz, and picked up by SPD as quoted. However, his problem was slightly different in that it failed to operate at the quoted speeds, even though correctly identified by SPD.

 

If somebody could also dismiss another myth for me. Modules rated at CL2, I have long believed could possibly have stability issues in Athlon Based systems and thus should be set to 2.5. However there appears to be some confusion as to whether this is still the case with more recent Athlons / Athlon 64's. Should they function correctly at CL2 ?

 

And to finish with a minor gripe - If the reported SPD is indeed what my modules truly are, understanding the concept that XMS is memory tested beyond specification. This difference between, CL2 and CL3 memory, cost wise is quite substantial. In many builds, I purchase generic memory, rated at CL2.5, for perhaps less than half the price of these, and it too will usually function at CL2. Now I appreciate the guarantee of quality, hence the corsair purchase, but it does leave you feeling a little gutted, when in reality you have just purchased CL3 memory.

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Many bios's do not read the spd correctly as they are expecting JEDEC rated latencies. JEDEC spec's are always behind in updating the published values quality ram can actually do. When it doesn't see these values it will default on auto settings to more relaxed timings. Your Twinx pack has been physically tested to run in dual channel mode at the modules rated specs in an actual board; as long as your board can support these values they will run at these values. To achieve the rated specs however, you need to manually set the bios to the rated latencies, 2-3-3-6 at 400mghz. CPUz and Memtest only read what values are set in the bios for latencies. All of the newer core A64's are capable of running cl2, including your 4200 X2. The cost difference is due to the exhaustive testing your sticks have been through to be life-time gauranteed to run at the stated specs.

 

ps: Could you copy and paste a link to your friend's post. I'd like to have a look at it.

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To add to what Garvin posted, the PC3200C2 memory is suited to a much wider and more generic amount of MOBOs as compared to the PC3200XL. Not every MOBO can even run CAS2 so, the SPD is set to a more conservative timing. This is to make sure you can boot into your bios and then set the more aggressive timings manually. The SPD is only there for the purpose of communicating with the MOBO. It does not determine or limit the performance of the memory. However, you will need to set the 2,3,3,6 timings manually.

 

Mike.

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http://www.houseofhelp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43162

 

This is a link to my friends post, who I think you will see was and is rather disgruntled.

 

From further research it appears to me that XL memory probably has the SPD programmed to its guaranteed settings, whereas C2 SPD is set to the JEDEC standard for the modules used in production.

 

My only gripe was that although granted they are tested to their given ratings, and indeed do run at that. Why is it not stated anywhere that the SPD value will not be that quoted. It makes me think back to when I used to modify front ends of receivers for high gain, where upon I would buy quantities of ungraded components, as this was much cheaper than A graded units. However upon testing, many of them would reveal gains higher than that of A graded units, n thus I used these. Just strikes me as a very similar scenario.

 

Looking at the above reply, I can see the theory in the SPD being set more conservative to ensure Mobo boot, but then why is this not done with the XL too ?

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The PDF Document here for the PC3200C2 1024mb kit clearly states that the memory boots at JEDEC standard values:

 

http://www.corsairmemory.com/corsair/products/specs/twinx1024-3200c2.pdf

 

As to your friends dilemma, running lowlatency memory on the socket 754 MOBOs was troublesome due to the nature of the memory controllers on those CPUs. Most likely he will need to run the memory at slightly reduced latencies due to this chipset/CPU limitation. Also, MSI has some very strange performance acceleration settings. These need to be disabled as they interfere with manual tuning.

 

Mike.

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I must admit that it does indeed state that it boots a Jedec settings, it is a pitty though that this information isnt included with the packaging material.

 

I can imagine a great deal of first time purchasers or those unfamiliar with Latency Settings, either never noticing or being bewildered.

 

My friends problems with his memory were not limited to his Mobo. In addition, the Bios Rev supplied with this Mobo does not allow deviation from SPD - little help to either of us.

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My friends problems with his memory were not limited to his Mobo. In addition, the Bios Rev supplied with this Mobo does not allow deviation from SPD - little help to either of us.

Many first time builders do need assistance in setting the latencies. I did with my first build and got help here from RAM GUY. That is what makes this forum so valuable. So, since Corsair makes a great product and helped me out, I come here to offer my assistance.

 

That is terrible that your friends bios does not allow him to tweak the latencies. I hope that he can find a satisfactory solution soon. If there's any way we can help here, we will be happy to do it.

 

Mike.

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I will let him know.

 

We did find a solution that allowed us to modify the latency settings, which was dropping the BIOS version to 1.9, I believe. From what I can tell, it seems that later versions supported later Sempron CPU's, as in the version 2.2 supplied with the Mobo. Why this should require the latency settings to be locked, I have no idea.

 

After this, we were able to get the machine to run but it wasnt what u would call perfect, games for example, using his 6800Gt, would stutter. However this was not the case using the same cards etc in his old Giga NF2 2800 system.

It was on this new system that the Memory problems first flared up, only really being stable when dropping mem speeds to 333. Question was whether it was now a CPU compatibility issue, as it now had an earlier BIOS with an A64 3700+. Eventually getting it to run reasonably well, using memtest, memory speeds were impressive, faster than the Dual setup in the NF2.

But then memory errors started to crop up again. Now after being told it was the CPU, PSU, change this or that, and eventually selling the Mobo, he tests the Memory back in his NF2 using Memtest, and it faults. wasnt quite so bad at 333, but at 400, an error list the length of your arm.

So it appears to be the memory after all this. I personally think that using a Mobo capable of running it at its rated spec, emphasised a fault.

An RMA has been obtained, but remembering that he has been told to change PSU's, CPU's etc, having to pay £16 to return it to Fremont was not what he needed to hear.

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Another question, I have been clocking memory and the likes in old P3's and cheapy systems for a long while. Cant really see the need in a decent one.

Now when it came to memory in this new system, I thought of corsair and not really looking into any other memory vendors. C2 was fine for my needs, but wasnt until this SPD issue that I looked into anything further.

 

Now, like I said, I generally use a generic, but often Major memory, samsung or the likes. Very often with a CL2.5. Should I wish to obtain a CL2, which I admit appears to make little differance to Athlon performance compared to say the old P3's, I would up the voltage to say 2.6 / 2.7 volts and it would usually run as CL2 without a glitch, not always the case, but usually.

So doing some research on another major vendor(see ur site replaces it with X's), they have memory of 2225, but running at a voltage of 2.5 / 2.6(DDR Spec). So along with the fact that SPD detects my C2 memory as CL3, it gets me asking the question of why does corsair run at 2.75v ?

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  • Corsair Employees
JEDEC spec for DDR400 is 2.6 Volts +- 1.2 Volts, and our modules are suggested at 2.75 Volts for a few reasons, one of which is like you your self said upping the voltage would sometimes allow you to run the memory at tighter timings. But second and probably more important many times the memory controller will share the same power source and when over clocking it would be best to add a bit of voltage to increase stability. Many users have left the voltage at stock settings even with our XL modules and not had a problem, but more than likely if you do have a problem upping the DRAM Voltage will solve it. I cannot speak for other makers memory, but I would be willing to bet if you had one of the other makers modules and had a problem, and were able to get a hold of their tech support they would suggest you up the memory voltage.
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Ive been meaning to respond to Garvins post above.

I had used Memtest and CPUz, to confirm SPD settings, but just in case it proves of use at any time, the New CPUz that I downloaded for this purpose, I believe actually gives the SPD value aswell as the actual user defined settings.

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