Is the cpu cooling on the i7400 good?

[Scotters]

I ran the 1st test again, , time off, score 37,663.  Temps in msi afterburner for the CPU reached 84.

 

2nd test, at 10 minutes, temps did not go above 56.

I'm running the 30 minute test now.  It shot right up to 85C temp, only 1 minute in.

 

What do you guys think?  Should I increase the 125 w limit? 

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Scotters

[Scotters]

Ok, I did the 30 minute test.  Some cores got up to 95C.  Overall max CPU temp was 89 C.

 

Score was 30,967.

 

Ok, so now what?  Do I raise the wattage, if, so, to what?  Or do I stay where I'm at?

[c-attack]

17 hours ago, Scotters said:

Temps in msi afterburner for the CPU reached 84.

No, 84C is normal for anyone at 5.5x8. With the 253W power limit on, the most you can run is 5.5x8 cores (stock setting) unless you have some golden CPU that is capable of running a much lower voltage and thus producing a lot less watts at 5.6x8.  There is no reason to set up your CPU to run cinebench, unless that is what you normally do.  The key factor is if your power consumption and temps will go down during gaming or whatever you normally do.  

 

If you run R23 long enough, you will hit a temp limit or a power limit.  This downclocks the CPU and you score lower because it spends more time at 5.4x8 instead of 5.5x8.  R23 is a pretty simple test.  The more cores you have and the higher their frequency, the better your score.  Don't get caught up in this.  It doesn't have an actual application for most people.  

Edited July 14, 2023 by c-attack

[Scotters]

Thanks C-Attack. 

So, am I all set?  Should I leave everything the way it is?

[LeDoyen]

See how it goes in game as it is. Looks alright

[Scotters]

Cool!  Thanks LeDoyen!

[LeDoyen]

landing in a busy settlement to kill innocent farmers in Elite should provide a good test 😛

[Scotters]

LOL, I don't even have my controller setup, I just did some training missions last week.  I think it will be a while before I attack some busy settlement.🤣

2 cores got p to 88C Total War Warhammer III. 

 

 

[Scotters]

On 7/14/2023 at 2:27 PM, LeDoyen said:

landing in a busy settlement to kill innocent farmers in Elite should provide a good test 😛

It wasn't Elite, it was X4 Foundations that set some of my CPU cores to 100C!  Every other game, including Forspoken, Red Dead Redemption 2, Mech Warrior 5 Witcher 3, Elden Ring, etc, have only gotten to the low 80s C, so I have been very happy, but today when I play X4 foundations for a bit, I was a little bit concerned at the 100C temps.  I was surprised as well, with all the other games producing such low temps.

 

What are your thoughts LeDoyen and C-Attack?  If I really start to play X4, its a game that can consume hundreds of hours, but I don't know about those 100 C temps for the CPU.  The 4090 GPU though was fine, no higher than 72C.

[c-attack]

Does that game use AVX or similar instructions for turn generation?  Not sure what else would cause a hefty jump over stress test levels.  

[Scotters]

c-Attack,

I have no idea!  I never heard of AVX.   The game is X4 Foundations.  It's on Steam.    I have no idea why the CPU cores get to 100C.  And that was with less than a half hour of play time.

 

Yes, the temps make no sense when some of the most demanding games like RD Redemption 2 and Forspoken now run in the low 80s. I had played Forspoken for maybe 40 minutes this morning, highest temps I think were 81 or 82 C.  The only other game that I can test that is very demanding would be Cyberpunk 

 

Is there anything I should do?

 

 

 

 

 

[c-attack]

I don't know the game, but a quick search reveals similar concerns.  It clearly is a 'high object count' kind of game which will keep CPU usage really high, particularly if it generates it in a round style format.  However, that would not take it any higher than a normal CPU stress test.  What might is if the game uses a specific instruction type like AVX that can create higher than normal temps.  Most of the current motherboards have a specific slider in the BIOS to reduce the CPU frequency when AVX instructions are in use to reduce temps and power.  There may also be some basic in game stuff you can do to lower the object count, like how many layers or overlays you keep active.  Probably need someone with game specific knowledge here.  

[Scotters]

Ok.  I would like to play X4, I just not sure about those 100C temps.  And I sure don't want to lower the graphics, the amount of objects in the game, all of that, one of the main reasons I bought this gaming computer was to run X4 Foundations in all of its glory.

 

I also gave Cyberpunk a good whirl, played for maybe 40 minutes, also ran some benchmark tests, etc.  At the highest settings, in 4k, even with the ray tracing tech demo, max temp was 87C in three of the CPU cores, everything else was lower.   GPU max was 71.  So, that was not too bad!

 

 

[Scotters]

I posted about this in the X4 Foundations discussion forum on steam.

 

https://steamcommunity.com/app/392160/discussions/0/3809533595061455004/

 

C-Attack, and LeDoyen, if you have any more suggestions, I would appreciate it.  I am very concerned about the 100C temps in X4. 

[Scotters]

Here was one suggestion on the X4 Foundations Steam forum.

 

"Try lowering the boost overclock by 100-200mhz when all cores are in use."

 

Should I do that, and if so, how do I do it?

[Scotters]

C-Attack, do you work for Corsair?  Or is there someone I should talk to?  I really don't think the CPU should be getting to 100 C, especially after everything we tried.  What should I do?

 

At the X4 steam forum, they are suggesting a new cooler or the following:  (Details below)

 

"Temperature issues are not caused by software. They are always the fault of hardware. Video games aren't some magical thing that can heat up your hardware, that's not how any of this works. Heat is generated as a result of hardware simply doing it's job. The higher the load, the more heat. However, even under 100% stress loads you should not be reaching temperatures like 100 degrees on your processor, or anything really. Even if you were running all your components at maximum load hours on end, nothing should ever reach dangerous temperatures in a well designed system. So no, X4 is not doing anything wrong to your processor, pick any other similarly intensive CPU task and run it for the same amount of time and you will see the exact same results. You need to take a look into your PC and see what is wrong with it. Some examples:

- Change your thermal paste to fresh one, make sure not to apply too little of it. You can't really have too much thermal paste contrary to the popular myth, just make sure you don't put so much it oozes around the socket and makes a mess.
- Also make sure the part of the CPU cooler that touches the CPU is putting enough pressure on it to form a firm connection, and that all the sides are putting similar amount of pressure, if you tight the screws unevenly then the unequal pressure can lead to severe degradation of cooling.
- Clean the fins on your CPU cooler.
- Buy a better CPU cooler if you're using the garbage stock one (you don't seem to be from your description).
- Clean your case's air filters if you have those
- Just clean your PC in general from dust
- Check if your fans are actually mounted correctly and aren't blowing air in the wrong direction
- Make sure your PC has enough room to take in fresh air and there is enough room to exhaust it away from it. Putting a PC in an enclosed space and having it's back close to a wall will have a negative impact on cooling.

Or maybe your system as a whole just has really bad airflow due to a bad case and badly positioned fans, but if you really have the case you've listed then that should not be a problem. Or maybe that processor just runs really, really hot and you need to seriously improve your setup to efficiently cool it, I am not familiar with that specific model but others seem to suggest exactly that."

[c-attack]

52 minutes ago, Scotters said:

C-Attack, do you work for Corsair? 

No, I do not and this is mostly a user forum.  To talk with Corsair Support, use the link at the bottom of this page "SUPPORT -> Customer Support" or do the same through the main Corsair.com website.

 

When you are entering in your query information, make sure you list the "i7400" as the product.  There are separate support teams for complex items like pre-built PCs and Hydro X custom cooling that require very specialized knowledge.  That will ensure you are talking to the right support group.  

 

I am not terribly surprised by the responses you got in the Steam forums.  It's a gaming discussion arena.  Not going to be a lot of people with technical backgrounds and even fewer with actual troubleshooting skills.  Clearly no one read your information carefully and they ran over the clues without slowing down.  

 

To that end, there is one more thing to observe.  You've run R23 and other stress tests and the maximum CPU temp gets to about 84C.  These are either short tests or ones which only involve the CPU.  The big component making all the heat in the case is the GPU and it has the ability to raise the internal case temp by 10C or more.  When it does that, every component in the box goes up by 10C as well.  There are a few ways to measure what's happening during gaming.  The most central is the H100i Temp in CUE.  This is coolant temp or the water temp inside the AIO.  It also represents the lowest possible CPU temp with zero volts or no load.  If you run a CPU stress test for 30 seconds, the CPU will heat up but in terms of watts transferred into the cooling system, the number is very low and you won't see any coolant temp change.  If you run a stress test for 10-20 min, you will see the H100i Temp slowly creep up during this time.  Each +1C of coolant temp = +1C to CPU temp.  For CPU wattage alone, you might expect it to go up 6-8C during gaming.  However, if the GPU is heating the case up even more, then the CPU temps will be higher than expected....  possibly higher than when running a stress test but that is the part to check.

 

Before you start playing X4, check the H100i Temp and write it down.  Play for 30 min and see what it reads now.  A particularly large increase (+15C or more) likely means there is a lot of GPU heating going on.

 

The other thing to do is run a better monitoring tool like HWMon or HWinfo to track min/max/avg CPU temps.  If your CPU was 100C for 0.7s, it really doesn't matter.  If it is averaging 85C or spending a lot of time lingering in the 80-100C range, that is unusual.  

[Scotters]

Thank you C-attack.

[Scotters]

Ok, so I ran X4 for a bit, and the results are good I think!

First, the Coolant Temp was steady at 41 C  while playing.  GPU was at 70-72C during the game.

The CPU temps on some cores got to 96, and I am sure would eventually get to 100C, but these were momentary spikes, and then it would stay in the 50s to60s C, with occasional momentary spikes to high temps.  I will include some pictures.

 

So what do you think C-attack, am I ok? In my uneducated opinion, I think the CPU is doing its job well, maintaining great beautiful frame rates and spreading the heat from core to core when needed, with only momentary high spikes.  I think I am good, but I really value your opinion.

 

[Scotters]

Here are pics of the temps.

[c-attack]

So the last question is what is the H100i Temp normally, like when on the desktop now?  (not after playing)  Most users will see around 4-7C above the room temperature.  That might be 33-34C this time of year.  

 

I don't think we quite got all the power under control, but these load spikes are not terribly concerning.  What has my attention is the difference between some core peak temps.  12C is more than normal.  However, if the 96C are power cores and the 86C are e-cores, then that makes more sense.  Is that EVGA precision in the screen shots?  Typically the Power Cores are listed first 0-7, then efficiency cores come after that.  

[Scotters]

The coolant temp is 31 C.  31-34 is normal temp for my coolant when not gaming.

The screenshots are of MSI Afterburner.  I like their temp monitoring, and it shows every core.

Here are the peak temps per core.

Cores 1-10 had a max of 86/87C.

Cores 11 and 12 got up to 96C

Cores 13 and 14 89C

Cores 15-16:  95C

Cores 17-24:  58C

Cores 25-26: 51C

Cores 27-32:  49-55C

The final CPU Temp just says Cpu Temp, so I assume its the overall temp.  Peak was 95C.

 

Btw, CPU usage for every core was from 90-100 usage, most were at 95 and 96% usage.

 

What do you think?  Are we ok?

 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Scotters

[c-attack]

On the 13000 series of Intel CPU, it lists "CPU temp" as the maximum recorded core temp from any core.  It's not any average or specific sensor like on some older CPUs.  If you have 23 cores at 80C and 1 core at 90C, then it would read "CPU temp = 90C".  

 

So if you see an 10-12C rise in coolant temp when gaming, that would explain the mid-90s numbers vs the mid-80s Cinebench peak temps when the coolant is 10-12C lower.  That 10-12C increases the baseline CPU temp for all load levels.  

 

Most of this is not CPU waste heat but interior case heat from the GPU.  +10C is a pretty common value in most cases with more powerful GPUs.  However, there are some things you can do to help drop that.  

1) Make sure any dust filter in the top has been removed. The 4000D is supposed to have a mesh top, but when I look at the Vengeance i7400 page pictures it somehow looks different.  You don't need a glass plate or dust filter trapping heat against the radiator.  

2) Make sure the rear fan and front three fans are turning at medium or better speed when gaming.  Those are the worker fans for getting cooler outside air in and moving warmer inside air out.

3) Experiment with limiting the two radiator fan speeds.  At 40C they likely go into blast off mode and that is based on there being that much CPU waste heat in the system.  However, that has the potential to pull for GPU waste heat in than necessary.  If you run 40C air through any radiator, the water temp will be 40C before any component heat is added.  Try setting a fixed speed like 1300-1500 before gaming to compare.  It may decrease the coolant temp by pulling less hot air through the radiator.

4) Flip the top fans to intake to force all heat out the back, but I don't want to get into that until easier methods are attempted.

 

 

So my take away is the system is functioning normally.  X4 has some strange loading max peaks that generate a load equivalent to a max render.  That's not common, but does match the R23 peak when temp adjusted.  Those are momentary peak values, so you don't need to worry.  Regardless, there are some things you can try to help temps with all game scenarios.  

[Scotters]

Thank you for you suggestions C-attack.

I have been stupidly leaving the mesh filter on top of the case while gaming.  I keep forgetting to take it off.

 

Using corsair's icue program, I have had the fans on max since realizing that these hight temps were occuring.

 

I can mess around with the radiator speeds.

 

Thanks!