Gigabyte Aorus Master z690 + Vengeance 2x32GB 5600

[hoardofbaboons]

I have a bit of an idiotic situation... I never checked any websites for compatibility and got the motherboard and RAM from the thread title above. Everything worked and continues to work perfectly fine with the XMP profile enabled. However, as of BIOS v. F20 (and continues with F21) on the first boot after enabling the XMP profile the machine goes into an infinite loop of memory initialization errors. Now, if you power down and then start again, memory initializes properly and everything works fine (XMP profile stays enabled). 

This issue with first initialization was pretty annoying, so I contacted Gigabyte and they pointed me to the fact that this RAM (model #CMK64GX5M2B5600C40) isn't on their compatible list (https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/Z690-AORUS-MASTER-rev-1x/support#support-memsup). They also pointed out that the motherboard isn't listed on Corsair's memory compatibility page either. So, the two manufacturers are in agreement: their products are not compatible. To this, I say congratulations.

As far as I am concerned, things could get worse with new BIOS updates. Can Corsair and Gigabyte try to work together and verify proper operation of this RAM or do I need to get rid of this memory for good? Can this silliness be figured out?

Edited December 7, 2022 by hoardofbaboons

[hoardofbaboons]

No response? 🙂

[c-attack]

You don’t alter the RAM or the motherboard to make this work. When a RAM kit is truly incompatible with a board, it’s a physical materials issue. No amount of voltage or timing adjustments will change the result. However, that’s probably not the case here.  It’s a DDR5 intel kit at 5600C40. It was intended to work on Z690. 
 

On 12/7/2022 at 12:26 AM, hoardofbaboons said:

issue with first initialization was pretty annoying, so I contacted Gigabyte and they pointed me to the fact that this RAM (model #CMK64GX5M2B5600C40) isn't on their compatible list

This has become a standard response from some manufacturers and is the only really good reason to stress over the compatibility list. They use the list as a way to deny technical support. The compatibility list is a series of RAM kits your motherboard manufacturer tested. It is not the result of them testing every kit on the market and these are the ones that passed. These lists usually are not updated after the MB’s initial release. 
 

It’s quite clear your motherboard is running a changed series of pre-boot tests as part of the new BIOS. I can’t speak for GA but my Asus boards have a good 50+ variables that can be toggled into different states as part of the warm up. Your chances of identifying the flunked test are extremely low. 
 

Best options

1) Roll back to previous bios. At this stage in development no one suddenly realized there was some critical change that had to be made or realized a quantum leap in performance or stability.  You are also not likely to see much further work on Z690 now that Z790 is out.  It is not uncommon to see some issues with RAM tuning in early bios versions, particularly if you are overclocking to the edge. I think the bigger problem here is a lot of Z690 boards we’re not receptive to ddr5 at all in larger amounts. Presumably you’ve been just fine and error free all along. Unless GA can tell you there is some critical security aspect in the last two bios versions, you stay on F19 or the last known. Just based on prior history, I’d guess they messed things up for you when they added in Raptor Lake support for the Z690 platform. This has been a repeating problem over the years when adding cpu compatibility for the prior CPU’s board.

 

2) Disable XMP and manually enter the frequency (5600), primary timings 40-40-40-77, and voltage 1.25v.  Then boot normally.  The board will auto program remaining values in accordance with its mem tests on power on.  This generally lets it get past a situation where the result of a test does not equal expected value.  You could try a small voltage boost to 1.275v if that does not work and it would have no effect on temperature.  If that still does not work, there is likely a serious obstacle in the new RAM training protocols.

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by c-attack

[hoardofbaboons]

Thanks for responding, this more or less confirms my thoughts. Gigabyte is a bit more active than you think messing around with this board (I mean, look at it: https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/Z690-AORUS-MASTER-rev-1x/support#support-dl-bios) and they specifically do a lot of RAM-related stuff, but overall I agree.

I don't know if rolling back is needed at this point, so I will just stay on F21 unless these modules magically appear on those "compatibility" lists. The last BIOS version that didn't have any issues was F20b, which is now gone from their downloads page altogether. 

 

[hoardofbaboons]

9 hours ago, c-attack said:

It’s quite clear your motherboard is running a changed series of pre-boot tests as part of the new BIOS. I can’t speak for GA but my Asus boards have a good 50+ variables that can be toggled into different states as part of the warm up. Your chances of identifying the flunked test are extremely low. 

That begs the question though: why does it start and hand over to the OS normally if I power down during these tests and start again? Presumably, the board should do the same thing, no? Bottom line is, my system is currently doing perfectly fine with the XMP profile enabled. 😉  

[c-attack]

You likely have some type of BIOS memory training switch and most boards default to "auto".  This means it selectively runs the full gamut of RAM tests on cold boot, but restarts and fast boot power-ons skip the RAM training.  Then underneath that umbrella is another 30-50 types of RAM tests, some of which may or may not run depending on conditions.  That is likely proprietary info and not something any normal user can dig up.  

 

So you may be able to bypass this by going into the BIOS and under some type of "advance memory training" type of sub menu looking for the "enable fast boot" for the entire BIOS and then there also will be a toggle to skip most of the RAM training.  Setting fast boot to ON and the RAM training to OFF may let you glide through every time.  Unfortunately I don't have any GA boards so I can direct you to the right place within the overall BIOS.  

[hoardofbaboons]

You seem to be right, but it's unclear to me which setting would be responsible and whether it's even a good idea to prevent this testing... This BIOS has been nothing but trouble, including clearing the TPM after every update.

[c-attack]

The only one you should need is the "Memory Boot Mode" in the top screen shot.  It likely has 3 settings for enabled/disabled/auto.  The trick is whether they wrote the options with a 'positive' or 'negative' aim and thus "enabled" may turn on fast boot or it may turn it off and force RAM training.  it looks like the proper setting is "enable fast boot" under that setting.

https://download.gigabyte.com/FileList/Manual/mb_manual_600series-bios_e.pdf

 

Once you click fast boot on, it will skip all the tests in picture #2.  Leave those on auto.  We don't know which test fails and the BIOS will still run the training if it has to in order to determine an initial value.  Enabling fast boot through RAM training will stop the BIOS from checking it's values on every cold boot.  However, my recommendation is to run a RAM stress test to make sure this is actually stable.  If it is not, then you need a different plan.  Lots of opinions on memory stress test programs.  My recommendation is to use OCCT AXV data set (the default setting).  It's quick (30 min) and will generally pop errors in 5 min or less.  No need for 24 hour runs or anything like that.  

Edited December 10, 2022 by c-attack

[hoardofbaboons]

8 hours ago, c-attack said:

My recommendation is to use OCCT AXV Large data set (the default setting).  It's quick (30 min) and will generally pop errors in 5 min or less.  No need for 24 hour runs or anything like that.  

The large dataset AVX test is under the CPU tab. Under Memory, this is what I have. Are these tabs for choosing settings for the same one test or are CPU/Memory/etc separate tests? For the CPU test, which I only tried for like 6 mins, all is stable and the temperatures don't even reach 70C (12700KF + Noctua cooler).

[c-attack]

Sorry. Auto AVX2 to start. Use the memory test. Cpu will be loaded but not to a high level. Early morning response above. 

[hoardofbaboons]

39 minutes ago, c-attack said:

Sorry. Auto AVX2 to start. Use the memory test. 

Yeah, that's what I did right after posting... AVX2, 30 mins completed without a hitch. Also tried windows memory diagnostics a bunch of times in the past, always clear. 

Edited December 10, 2022 by hoardofbaboons

[c-attack]

OK, so all good on cold boots now?

[hoardofbaboons]

22 minutes ago, c-attack said:

OK, so all good on cold boots now?

I have no idea. I am not sure if my initial post made it clear, but the issue I described happens only once -- after a BIOS update and my enabling the XMP profile right after. So, in total, I only observed it twice -- with F20 and F21 updates. Once you get past that by for instance forcing a power down, all is good with cold booting without changing any boot options in the BIOS.

But yes, you certainly did clarify a few things -- thank you. I do have another very pressing unrelated question, but don't want to overstay my welcome. 😉

[c-attack]

1 hour ago, hoardofbaboons said:

I have no idea. I am not sure if my initial post made it clear, but the issue I described happens only once

Oh.  I thought this was an every cold boot thing and you were not able to get past it until you go into the BIOS, look around for a moment, then exit out which in turn bypasses the full memory check.  That leaves open some other possibilities.  The BIOS could be looking for something, a default setting on the new BIOS is incorrect for your set-up, a programming error, or any of the usual new BIOS kinds of issues.  If this is only on the first boot after the BIOS, leave the Mem check on.  Having to do this once every few months is probably not a hardship and there appears to be no actual mismatch or incompatibility block.  Frankly, if GA understood this was happening one time only after the BIOS install, then they should not have responded in the manner they did.  That is their responsibility.  Unfortunately this exactly the reason I steer some users to the compatibility chart -- as a future defensive measure.

Edited December 10, 2022 by c-attack

[hoardofbaboons]

45 minutes ago, c-attack said:

 If this is only on the first boot after the BIOS, leave the Mem check on.  Having to do this once every few months is probably not a hardship and there appears to be no actual mismatch or incompatibility block.  Frankly, if GA understood this was happening one time only after the BIOS install, then they should not have responded in the manner they did.  That is their responsibility.  Unfortunately this exactly the reason I steer some users to the compatibility chart -- as a future defensive measure.

My main worry is that future BIOS updates could end my little workaround. Otherwise no, not much of a hardship. Gigabyte support has some creature in there who simply copy/pastes boilerplate nonsense.

[c-attack]

I would not expect this to get worse.  I think it more likely they fix their error on a later BIOS.  If this just started with the last two releases and those dates coincide with the release of Raptor Lake and Z790 in October, then it is likely a dual compatibility issue on their end and those usually get sorted.  I do not think you need to go buy new hardware.  

[hoardofbaboons]

Alright then, thanks!