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Not too long ago i decided to upgrade from the H150I to the H170I and consequently since i had so much space i placed my radiator as a push/pull config.

I purchased the ML140 RGB Elite thinking they were a direct replacement to the one's that come with the AIO, obviously they aren't, i have 3 fans running ~1500RPMs and 3 ~1900

What fans come with the aio? can they be purchased separately?

Which have a better static pressure? the ML140s or the one that come with the AIO, any help would be appreciated.

 

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Do you have the “standard” H170i Elite Capellix or the LCD top version?  
 

The original Elite Capellix AIOs all came with what we were calling a “ML Elite” fan. We kept expecting it come out as a retail product but there was a long delay (COVID) and finally we did get it. So now we have two versions of the fan. The ML Elite (OEM) still comes with most Elite Cap coolers. The 140mm model for 280 and 420mm radiators maxes out at 2000 rpm free air, which is likely to be ~1900 with radiator resistance. The retail Elite is the exact same blade and LEDs, but you’ll notice it gets the new “smooth frame” look. I though that was the only difference but now notice the retail ML Elite 140 tops out at 1600 rpm vs 2000 on the OEM and likewise the 120mm version is 2000 retail and 2400 OEM. 
 

Blade geometry is identical so a 140 OEM and 140 retail will have the same airflow/pressure at the same rpm. There is no reason to run 6x140 push pull at 1900 rpm. With a 30mm medium fpi radiator there won’t be any difference between 3x or 6x at that speed and what is likely to be less than a 250W max load.  Where push pull can help is to get better cooling at lower speeds than you would with just one set of fans. 
 

I am assuming you are using the Commander Core as the controller and then probably the 6 port PWM hub in back to handle the load. Make sure one of the Elite retail fans goes into the “control” (dot) header on the little circuit board. That will make the rest follow its lead and keep you at 1500x6 rather than leaving the retail fans behind at maximum and creating some pressure anomalies. 

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11 hours ago, c-attack said:

Do you have the “standard” H170i Elite Capellix or the LCD top version?  
 

The original Elite Capellix AIOs all came with what we were calling a “ML Elite” fan. We kept expecting it come out as a retail product but there was a long delay (COVID) and finally we did get it. So now we have two versions of the fan. The ML Elite (OEM) still comes with most Elite Cap coolers. The 140mm model for 280 and 420mm radiators maxes out at 2000 rpm free air, which is likely to be ~1900 with radiator resistance. The retail Elite is the exact same blade and LEDs, but you’ll notice it gets the new “smooth frame” look. I though that was the only difference but now notice the retail ML Elite 140 tops out at 1600 rpm vs 2000 on the OEM and likewise the 120mm version is 2000 retail and 2400 OEM. 
 

Blade geometry is identical so a 140 OEM and 140 retail will have the same airflow/pressure at the same rpm. There is no reason to run 6x140 push pull at 1900 rpm. With a 30mm medium fpi radiator there won’t be any difference between 3x or 6x at that speed and what is likely to be less than a 250W max load.  Where push pull can help is to get better cooling at lower speeds than you would with just one set of fans. 
 

I am assuming you are using the Commander Core as the controller and then probably the 6 port PWM hub in back to handle the load. Make sure one of the Elite retail fans goes into the “control” (dot) header on the little circuit board. That will make the rest follow its lead and keep you at 1500x6 rather than leaving the retail fans behind at maximum and creating some pressure anomalies. 

The ML140s OEM are not the same as the ML elite, the elite have a different frame with what the call "air guide", i dont know if this means same statis pressure and cfm

I had a couple of degree drop when i added the push/pull config, my radiator is top mounted and the 1000D is very restrictive for the top (FYI i can not do front mounted)

The reason why i can not front mount my aio is due to the intake/exhaust ratio, i would have a lot more exhaust than intake, which also huts my thermals

Unfortunately i lucked out on the cpu lottery and my 11900k needs a crap ton of voltage for a stable overclock

My 11900k reaches 300 watts easily FYI

I dont care about fan noise

I just want the best possible set-up with my current hardware, hence the question regarding the fans and their specs

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Correct. The ML-Elite retail got the polished frame with the directional vanes and the sculpted outer frame wall. If we were comparing them independently in a free air test, the vanes would have some influence on how the air is shaped. On a radiator and especially in push pull it won’t matter. The blades are the same and each fan is going to be the same at like RPMs, each entering force on the other. 
 

In a 1000D I don’t think you could reach the front if you wanted to and clearly the top is the place for a 420mm with a natural fit. No reason to ruin the front aesthetic. Other guidelines about “cooler intake air” may not be in play for a case that large and with that level of volume and airflow. It also means you have plenty of space up top and the whole thing may look more balanced with the thicker push pull stack. Unlike a lot of other builds were this is tedious, I don’t think there is any question you should use the extra fans in push pull. 
 

So I suppose the real question is should you buy 3 more ML-Elite OEM or another 2000 rpm fan to support them. My answer would be absolutely not unless you routinely set your fans to 1900 rpm and leave it there. Even then, the 400 rpm difference in push pull with a 300W load will be at most 1C, but with a noticeable increase in noise. For most people this is a bad trade. 
 

So then back to control.  I thought you might have a 7000 with the included PWM hub. However, in a 1000D you likely had to get your own PWM hubs to handle the huge number of fans. If you put one of the slower ML Elite retail in the lead position on the hub, all others should keep in step and prevent the two sides from developing that speed difference which is likely to cause some odd noises with no benefit to cooling. 

Edited by c-attack
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10 hours ago, c-attack said:

Correct. The ML-Elite retail got the polished frame with the directional vanes and the sculpted outer frame wall. If we were comparing them independently in a free air test, the vanes would have some influence on how the air is shaped. On a radiator and especially in push pull it won’t matter. The blades are the same and each fan is going to be the same at like RPMs, each entering force on the other. 
 

In a 1000D I don’t think you could reach the front if you wanted to and clearly the top is the place for a 420mm with a natural fit. No reason to ruin the front aesthetic. Other guidelines about “cooler intake air” may not be in play for a case that large and with that level of volume and airflow. It also means you have plenty of space up top and the whole thing may look more balanced with the thicker push pull stack. Unlike a lot of other builds were this is tedious, I don’t think there is any question you should use the extra fans in push pull. 
 

So I suppose the real question is should you buy 3 more ML-Elite OEM or another 2000 rpm fan to support them. My answer would be absolutely not unless you routinely set your fans to 1900 rpm and leave it there. Even then, the 400 rpm difference in push pull with a 300W load will be at most 1C, but with a noticeable increase in noise. For most people this is a bad trade. 
 

So then back to control.  I thought you might have a 7000 with the included PWM hub. However, in a 1000D you likely had to get your own PWM hubs to handle the huge number of fans. If you put one of the slower ML Elite retail in the lead position on the hub, all others should keep in step and prevent the two sides from developing that speed difference which is likely to cause some odd noises with no benefit to cooling. 

Here's a question for you, I have the 1000d and the h170l in a push pull config, the top 3 are the ml, but the bottom are the sp140, so I'm thinking maybe different air patterns? I set the top on extreme so thru spin at around 1400-1500 and the ml on balanced so thru spin at around 1500-1600, will that have any major effects on the cooling in the 1000d case? Or should I not worry? They are all hooked up to the commander core pro and an rgb hub in the case, and not tan off of a regular fan splitter.

I have 3 more of the radiator ml fans, as I had two h170l but I didn't notice until it was too late that I didn't install the other 3 on it and only put the sp140 and not ml 140 elite.  But my car is already put together and organized and cable managed, so I don't want to pull it back apart for 3 fans if it won't make much of a difference.

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28 minutes ago, FreakyFreak87 said:

have the 1000d and the h170l in a push pull config, the top 3 are the ml, but the bottom are the sp140, so I'm thinking maybe different air patterns? I set the top on extreme so thru spin at around 1400-1500 and the ml on balanced so thru spin at around 1500-1600, will that have any major effects

Probably not. The fans don’t have to be identical and they don’t have to be at the same speed. However, as you stray from equilibrium you may start to notice weird vibrations or odd harmonics. That is usually a consequence of a pressure imbalance. If you’re running a mixed pair on each side, you may actually need a little less on one side or the other. These are fine details, so if the fans truly sound terrible then it’s a bad match. 
 

Don’t be afraid to use your own custom curve that will allow you finer control. Click the + to create a new curve. A graph will appear below along with 4 shape tools in the lower right corner. Your water cooling Quiet, balanced, extreme presets are there, but this time you can see and edit the data points. You can make one for each side and tune as necessary. Either way, better to use the version of the preset where you can see the curve. 
 

 

You are not likely to see a meaningful difference by changing fans. Your fans regulate the H170i coolant temp and changes are small. There is no such thing as a miracle fan that takes 5C off your temps with a large radiator. You can use bad fans and still get good results because of the large surface area. 

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8 hours ago, c-attack said:

Probably not. The fans don’t have to be identical and they don’t have to be at the same speed. However, as you stray from equilibrium you may start to notice weird vibrations or odd harmonics. That is usually a consequence of a pressure imbalance. If you’re running a mixed pair on each side, you may actually need a little less on one side or the other. These are fine details, so if the fans truly sound terrible then it’s a bad match. 
 

Don’t be afraid to use your own custom curve that will allow you finer control. Click the + to create a new curve. A graph will appear below along with 4 shape tools in the lower right corner. Your water cooling Quiet, balanced, extreme presets are there, but this time you can see and edit the data points. You can make one for each side and tune as necessary. Either way, better to use the version of the preset where you can see the curve. 
 

 

You are not likely to see a meaningful difference by changing fans. Your fans regulate the H170i coolant temp and changes are small. There is no such thing as a miracle fan that takes 5C off your temps with a large radiator. You can use bad fans and still get good results because of the large surface area.

Well wouldn't you know it lol.  I decided to go ahead and remove the 3 SP fans and install the other 3 ML fans I had from the other h170i.

 

Well I guess the normal h170i and the h170i with LCD screen come with older or newer models of the ML 140.

 

Because the fans that came with the non LCD model of the h170i have a top rpm of 1800 and the ones that came with the LCD model top out at 1600rpm lol.

 

So I just installed the 1600 rpm ML 140 on the bottom and left the 1800 ML on top..

But why two models of the same AiO would come with two different ML 140 is beyond me lol.

 

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10 minutes ago, FreakyFreak87 said:

Well wouldn't you know it lol.  I decided to go ahead and remove the 3 SP fans and install the other 3 ML fans I had from the other h170i.

 

Well I guess the normal h170i and the h170i with LCD screen come with older or newer models of the ML 140.

 

Because the fans that came with the non LCD model of the h170i have a top rpm of 1800 and the ones that came with the LCD model top out at 1600rpm lol.

 

So I just installed the 1600 rpm ML 140 on the bottom and left the 1800 ML on top..

But why two models of the same AiO would come with two different ML 140 is beyond me lol.

 

Upon looking a bit more, I guess the new LCD models come with the ML140 RGB Elite. While the capellix non LCD model comes with the ML 140 RGB.  but the non elite versions have more rpm, but likely less cfm.  But that's the configuration it's staying in lol.

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On 8/4/2022 at 7:39 AM, c-attack said:

Do you have the “standard” H170i Elite Capellix or the LCD top version?  
 

The original Elite Capellix AIOs all came with what we were calling a “ML Elite” fan. We kept expecting it come out as a retail product but there was a long delay (COVID) and finally we did get it. So now we have two versions of the fan. The ML Elite (OEM) still comes with most Elite Cap coolers. The 140mm model for 280 and 420mm radiators maxes out at 2000 rpm free air, which is likely to be ~1900 with radiator resistance. The retail Elite is the exact same blade and LEDs, but you’ll notice it gets the new “smooth frame” look. I though that was the only difference but now notice the retail ML Elite 140 tops out at 1600 rpm vs 2000 on the OEM and likewise the 120mm version is 2000 retail and 2400 OEM. 

From above. The ML Elite OEM from the radiator kit is only packaged with the AIO kit. When it launched, there was no ML-Elite model available at retail. AIO sales are often driven by reviews. If model A is at the top of the list and model B finishes 4th, model A likely sells more. Most people don’t bother to look at the maximum fan speeds and not all reviews standardize their fan speeds for testing. This lead to a period of time where everyone was packing 2700 rpm fans into their AIO kits to be competitive, but then you get push back about “your fans are loud and they suck”.  Now that we have a polished retail version of the ML-Elite, it is included with the premium LCD package where the appearance is a strong selling point and the difference in speed is not meaningful on a 420mm rad. 

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