How many Commanders? Product advice for new cooling setup..

[exploiteddna]

Anyways, my old case and setup just had 6 rgb fans, which worked out nice for the Commander Pro (plus lighting node). But now I've got 9, possibly adding a 10th (all QL120 rgb fans). I've also got a pump but don't usually control it through iCUE, as it has its own software suite for advanced metrics and whatnot, but I'm curious if anyone actually plugs their D5 pump into it? Also, I don't need more than 4 temp probes. I don't intend to have any LED strips.. at least, I don't think. My GPU block and CPU block both have RGB, but it's EK so I can't plug those into the Commander, right ??? 

When I bought the Pro, the Core and Core XT did not exist, as far as I'm aware. But either way, here we are:

1. is one Commander Pro enough to run all of this?
2. If yes, how do you connect 9 or 10 fans to the 6 fan ports on the Pro?
3. If no, which extra device is the best choice for my needs, pairing it with the Pro I already have?
4. Finally, are there any Corsair products that come bundled with the Core or Core XT? 

[c-attack]

1, 2, & 3 - In theory you could use four 2-way PWM splitters to connect the fans, but the better method is to use a PWM hub that acts as a powered splitter for 4-10 fans depending on the model you choose.  Most users do not need individual fan control on their radiators or any of the now typical 3x120 or 3x140 panels.  The PWM hub will use 1 fan port from the Commander leaving 5 for to use.  Most users will want their pump on the Commander so they can program it or set a specific level when needed, but if you have an unusual pump with its own control scheme then that may be an exception.  

 

4) A couple of cases come with a Commander XT -- 5000T, 7000x.   Expensive way to get one, but if you are in the market.... still I would choose the case I wanted.  A Commander XT has been hovering around $50 USD.

The Elite Capellix AIO series comes with a Commander Core, but I don't think you're shopping for an AIO.  Commander Cores are meant for the AIO and it has a special power/data port on the side required to operate the Elite Capellix pump.  

 

There are 3rd party adapters that will allow you to connect your EK blocks to the Commander Pro or any other device with a LED port.  The trick is finding a compatible Corsair element to match LEDs counts.  EK uses some odd numbers.  Some older stuff is 9 LEDs.  Those can be set 1 x strip, which is 10 LEDs.  Some of the newer stuff is 14 LED, which is close enough to use a Hydro X blocks (16 LEDs).  It you PM me what you have, I can make a recommendation.  

Edited May 27, 2022 by c-attack

[exploiteddna]

 

20 hours ago, c-attack said:

1, 2, & 3 - In theory you could use four 2-way PWM splitters to connect the fans, but the better method is to use a PWM hub that acts as a powered splitter for 4-10 fans depending on the model you choose.  Most users do not need individual fan control on their radiators or any of the now typical 3x120 or 3x140 panels.  The PWM hub will use 1 fan port from the Commander leaving 5 for to use.  Most users will want their pump on the Commander so they can program it or set a specific level when needed, but if you have an unusual pump with its own control scheme then that may be an exception.  

 

4) A couple of cases come with a Commander XT -- 5000T, 7000x.   Expensive way to get one, but if you are in the market.... still I would choose the case I wanted.  A Commander XT has been hovering around $50 USD.

The Elite Capellix AIO series comes with a Commander Core, but I don't think you're shopping for an AIO.  Commander Cores are meant for the AIO and it has a special power/data port on the side required to operate the Elite Capellix pump.  

 

There are 3rd party adapters that will allow you to connect your EK blocks to the Commander Pro or any other device with a LED port.  The trick is finding a compatible Corsair element to match LEDs counts.  EK uses some odd numbers.  Some older stuff is 9 LEDs.  Those can be set 1 x strip, which is 10 LEDs.  Some of the newer stuff is 14 LED, which is close enough to use a Hydro X blocks (16 LEDs).  It you PM me what you have, I can make a recommendation.  

ok awesome thank you!

Any recommendations on this PWM hub? Im guessing if I go that route, no need for a Core or Core XT, right?

I'll DM you the EK hardware

[c-attack]

You can use any of these PWM hubs.  They all should work, as long as there is a SATA cable for power.  If it's a dangling 4 way straight from the fan header, it's just a 4 way splitter and that will not work.  This will work for all of the Commanders - Pro, XT, or Core.  

[exploiteddna]

Oh ok, by "these PWM hubs" you're referring to the line of Commander products. Ok, I will find one that's being sold separately. 

 

Edit: And about the pump, im using the Aquacomputer D5 Next, which has its own software.. though, I suppose I could try running it throu iCue and see if I like it (https://www.performance-pcs.com/water-cooling/pumps/aquacomputer-d5-next-rgb-aq-41118.html)

Edited May 27, 2022 by exploiteddna

[c-attack]

10 minutes ago, exploiteddna said:

Aquacomputer D5 Next

No, you're fine.  That is the exception I had in my mind.  I don't have one, but another user may be able to answer if there is a benefit to moving PWM control to the Commander.  I suspect not.  

 

No, by PWM hubs I mean the 3rd party box with SATA and 1 PWM cable.  I've sent you a list of three with one recommendation.  

[LeDoyen]

the Next already has its own embedded water temperature sensor and integrated controller, so you're better off running it hardware mode or with aquasuite, but you dont need the software for it. Just set a pump curve and done.

If you weren't using QL fans i would have told you to go with Aquacomputer entirely, but that can be expensive with QLs because of how many LEDs those fans have.

Since you already have aquasuite, you could have two choices :

-Use a Commander with iCUE for the fans and only have the D5 on aquasuite

-Use lighting nodes core just for lighting control of the QL with iCUE, and get an aquacomputer PWM controller (Octo or Quadro) to manage all the cooling.

iCUE has very basic controls for cooling (fan curve, one temperature sensor, done) so if you're looking for simple, it can work.

For custom loop, Aquasuite is way more powerful so i'd tend to recommend that instead since you already have one foot in the ecosystem. And either controllers have standard ARGB control for your EK blocks. the D5 NEXT also has one channel that can control up to 90 LEDs so you could connect your blocks there too.

And if you got your QL in 3packs, you may already have some lighting node core units laying around to use with iCUE?

Edited May 27, 2022 by LeDoyen

[exploiteddna]

Hmmm.. yeah those are some interesting options.. Everything makes sense. I guess one thing I'd say is I sorta like iCue over aquasuite. Also my aquasuite license is nearly expired, which means I will stop receiving updates. In my last setup with D5 Next, I had aquasuite and iCUE, but I only really used aquasuite to setup water temp alarms or pump failure alarms. I much preferred controlling fans, LEDs, etc in iCUE. 

 

I have way too many lighting nodes.. I think I've got 4 of them, plus the Commander Pro.

Edited May 28, 2022 by exploiteddna

[exploiteddna]

4 hours ago, LeDoyen said:

-Use a Commander with iCUE for the fans and only have the D5 on aquasuite

This is what I did last time. It worked out pretty well. But I do wonder how much control of the pump I'd be able to get inside of iCUE. Id probably still have aquasuite installed, but if I could use iCUE for most of the pump control functions that would be cool. The D5 Next connects to the system via direct link to motherboard USB header. Not sure if iCUE can read this information or not. Though, maybe I'm able to plug it into one of the fan headers on the commander. I need to go look at its wiring options again, its been almost a year since I disassembled the old loop, delayed waiting for system upgrade components.

 

4 hours ago, LeDoyen said:

-Use lighting nodes core just for lighting control of the QL with iCUE, and get an aquacomputer PWM controller (Octo or Quadro) to manage all the cooling.

Last loop I had, I used the aquasuite for controlling the display on the Next, for alarms, and some other basic stuff (rbs on the pump housing). I remember considering those controllers, but as you noted they are kind of expensive. I think thats why I originally bought the Commander instead. My last build only had 6 fans so it was a non-issue, I just used the commander plus a lighting node, IIRC.

 

4 hours ago, LeDoyen said:

For custom loop, Aquasuite is way more powerful so i'd tend to recommend that instead since you already have one foot in the ecosystem. And either controllers have standard ARGB control for your EK blocks. the D5 NEXT also has one channel that can control up to 90 LEDs so you could connect your blocks there too.

yeah i have this weird mix of ecosystems.. I think I'd prefer to stay more in Corsair, I just really liked the Next pump, not so much the entire aquacomputer ecosystem. 

[LeDoyen]

If you prefer iCUE that's fine ^^

It won't read the NEXT sensors though but you can keep an eye on them with HWinfo or aquasuite.

The choice really lies in your choice of wanting to use what Aquasuite offers or not. It is too different from iCUE to really be compared. iCUE is more user friendly, and lighting setup is stupildly easy if you stick to presets.

Aquasuite is more for cooling powerusers and helpless tinkerers who want to extract every last bit of performance from the radiators, and automate everything.

[c-attack]

Whether you want the pump on a Commander or on its own won't change the hardware list, aside from using one for PWM header.  However, there are a couple points that may nudge you one way or another.

 

1) Do you have any RGB Lighting Hubs?  These were used with the original ML, HD, LL fans to connect to an LED port.  If not, then you won't be able to connect the QL to the Commander Pro for RGB control.  Those LED ports can go to your 3rd party adapters for the blocks so not wasted, but it then makes getting a Commander XT a better idea because of #2.

 

2) The Lighting Node Core RGB controllers that come with the QL multi-packs will light up any Corsair fan, but it is RGB only.  You cannot run a LED/RGB device from it other than a Corsair fan.  

 

 

So that makes the primary options either:

 

A) Commander Pro + PWM hub -> Up to 15 fans for speed control.  2 LED ports on Commander Pro for blocks.  2 Lighting Node Cores from QL box for RGB (6+3 or 6+4 for fans).  This is 3 USB 2 ports and 4 SATA power plugs.

 

B) Commander Pro + Commander XT -> Up to 12 fans for speed control.  3 available LED ports.  6 QL on Com XT for RGB.  Remaining fans on 1 LNCore from QL box.  This is 3 USB 2 ports and 3 SATA plugs.  If you have 1 RGB Lighting hub from before, the LNCore can be dropped in exchange for 1 LED port on the Commander Pro.  

[exploiteddna]

On 5/28/2022 at 1:20 PM, c-attack said:

Whether you want the pump on a Commander or on its own won't change the hardware list, aside from using one for PWM header.  However, there are a couple points that may nudge you one way or another.

 

1) Do you have any RGB Lighting Hubs?  These were used with the original ML, HD, LL fans to connect to an LED port.  If not, then you won't be able to connect the QL to the Commander Pro for RGB control.  Those LED ports can go to your 3rd party adapters for the blocks so not wasted, but it then makes getting a Commander XT a better idea because of #2.

 

2) The Lighting Node Core RGB controllers that come with the QL multi-packs will light up any Corsair fan, but it is RGB only.  You cannot run a LED/RGB device from it other than a Corsair fan.  

 

 

So that makes the primary options either:

 

A) Commander Pro + PWM hub -> Up to 15 fans for speed control.  2 LED ports on Commander Pro for blocks.  2 Lighting Node Cores from QL box for RGB (6+3 or 6+4 for fans).  This is 3 USB 2 ports and 4 SATA power plugs.

 

B) Commander Pro + Commander XT -> Up to 12 fans for speed control.  3 available LED ports.  6 QL on Com XT for RGB.  Remaining fans on 1 LNCore from QL box.  This is 3 USB 2 ports and 3 SATA plugs.  If you have 1 RGB Lighting hub from before, the LNCore can be dropped in exchange for 1 LED port on the Commander Pro.  

well you wouldnt believe this but im just finally getting around to setting this up. i was waiting for the new white EK rads to release last year and then life got busy, ran everything on air in the meantime. but i tore it all down this weekend and did the build, hoping to finish the loop this week.

#1 - Yeah I do have one of the old RGB hubs that came with an old set of ML fans (circa 2018). In my last build i plugged all 6 rad fans into it, and plugged the hub into the commander pro. Now I have 3 sets of QL. I have 3 lighting nodes that with the 3-packs, plus the OG hub (and the commander pro). You cant connect the lighting node to the commander pro? I might have an extra OG hub in the original product box but it's in a box packed up somewhere in the basement lol. But in theory I could find it and combine it with the other one for 12 total rgb ports

Response to Plan A: need to see if i have 3 internal usb headers on my board. Although, I saw a video where the dude plugged the two lighting node USB into the commander pro and then the commander pro into the motherboard usb header. Maybe this is what you were implying. Also, the EK blocks be plugged intro the commander directly without any sort of adapter?

I could go with Plan B but ill compare the pricing on the pwm hub and commander xt. also need to think about where im going to mount all of these things.. but thats a separate issue, for now

 

 

[c-attack]

2 hours ago, exploiteddna said:

Response to Plan A: need to see if i have 3 internal usb headers on my board. Although, I saw a video where the dude plugged the two lighting node USB into the commander pro and then the commander pro into the motherboard usb header.

Going to be motherboard dependent.  The first generation "PCI-e 4.0 boards" (AMD x570+B550, Intel Z690) don't do well with multiple devices stacked on the same USB line.  Whatever motherboard you do have will have 2 USB 9 pin internal at most.  

 

Most users will get a powered USB hub like the one Corsair now sells or the NZXT to help manage all this.  However, you can try first with connecting one LNPro through the Commander Pro's passive USB ports.  

[exploiteddna]

On 7/31/2023 at 7:39 PM, c-attack said:

Going to be motherboard dependent.  The first generation "PCI-e 4.0 boards" (AMD x570+B550, Intel Z690) don't do well with multiple devices stacked on the same USB line.  Whatever motherboard you do have will have 2 USB 9 pin internal at most.  

 

Most users will get a powered USB hub like the one Corsair now sells or the NZXT to help manage all this.  However, you can try first with connecting one LNPro through the Commander Pro's passive USB ports.  

Ok thats good to know. Right now I've got a Crosshair 8 Dark Hero (x570). However, I'm likely going to be upgrading before the end of the year at which point I'll prob go back to intel (unless i wait for arrow lake), and however many internal USBs are, or will be, on z790 / z890. Guess we'll cross that bridge later.. 

I also bought these adapters from pirate dog tech, theyre corsair adapters I was originally planning to use for the two EK blocks so I could control them from iCUE 

Are there any downsides to plugging the USB of each lighting node into the commander pro? I think the older RGB hub I have uses a 3-pin corsair rgb plug instead of the USB that newer lighting nodes use. Like, I guess I could just omit the old RGB adapter and use 2 lighting nodes for the fans and then plug the blocks into the LED ports on the commander using the adapters i got. PWM hub for power, or just use 2-way splitters and double up the power channels to control 2 fans each. Although i suspect the proper way is to just use a pwm hub

 

EDIT: I guess the PWM hub would also come into play if I wanted to use aquasuite for all of my cooling management and leave iCUE for controlling LEDs

Edited August 7, 2023 by exploiteddna

[exploiteddna]

  

11 minutes ago, exploiteddna said:

Ok thats good to know. Right now I've got a Crosshair 8 Dark Hero (x570). However, I'm likely going to be upgrading before the end of the year at which point I'll prob go back to intel (unless i wait for arrow lake), and however many internal USBs are, or will be, on z790 / z890. Guess we'll cross that bridge later.. 

I also bought these adapters from pirate dog tech, theyre corsair adapters I was originally planning to use for the two EK blocks so I could control them from iCUE 

Are there any downsides to plugging the USB of each lighting node into the commander pro? I think the older RGB hub I have uses a 3-pin corsair rgb plug instead of the USB that newer lighting nodes use. Like, I guess I could just omit the old RGB adapter and use 2 lighting nodes for the fans and then plug the blocks into the LED ports on the commander using the adapters i got. PWM hub for power, or just use 2-way splitters and double up the power channels to control 2 fans each. Although i suspect the proper way is to just use a pwm hub

 

EDIT: I guess the PWM hub would also come into play if I wanted to use aquasuite for all of my cooling management and leave iCUE for controlling LEDs

EDIT continued (rant): One problem I'm running into with aquacomputer is that there isnt as 10-fan hub. Unless im thinking about it wrong, the way i understand it is that If I want to control 10 fans in aquasuite then I need to have them alll run through an aquacomputer hub..? idk, the more i think about it... maybe that's not correct. but If i have the Octo, for example,l it handles 8 fans.. well, whats it going to look like in aquasuite when i have 8 fans on the octa and another 2 fans on a different interface? Does it appear uniform or will I essentially have to manage them as two groups of fans, one thats on the hub and the other that isnt

It seems there is 9-way hub that they sell, and if i dont add the tenth fan then maybe thats the way to go

Edited August 7, 2023 by exploiteddna

[exploiteddna]

sorry this sort of conversation im having with myself lol.. but Ive spent a lot of time looking at the different aquacomputer splitters, hubs, and controllers.. and the more i think about it, i feel like a proper migration and integration into aquasuite would require more than im willing to give right now, both time and money.. when i already have the commander pro that can handle almost everything.

a proper aquasuite integration (fans, temp probes, pump, flow) would require one of the aquaero fan controllers or a quadro/octo, in addtion to any of the hubs or splitters i'd need. I just dont think it makes sense right now. I think getting the Splitty9 (or several 2-way spltters) and connecting it to the commander might be better. Stay with iCUE, it's sufficient for now, and maybe during the next upgrade I can get the requisite hardware to fully leverage aquasuite

[LeDoyen]

you can use simple cable splitters with the octo or even a quadro. they can take 25w per channel. since most radiators use 3 fans, you can use 3 way splitters and connect everything to an Octo and have channe's to spare. PWM hubs are preferred for Corsair controllers only to avoid overloading PWM channels. I currently have 13 fans in my case plus a pump, and still one free pwm channel on the octo. it's far from complaining 😉

If i remember the specs correctly it's 25w per channel up to a total max of 100w (hence the molex plug).

The Aquaero is really needed only if you intend to run virtual sensors in hardware mode, like when running other OSes thqn windows. otherwise the Octo is fine. it has 4 temp probes inputs,  aflowmeter input for the High flow 2 or LT..

for 10 fans you really only need it, the flowmeter, and whatever temp probes you like, then corsair lighting controllers.

[c-attack]

10 hours ago, exploiteddna said:

Are there any downsides to plugging the USB of each lighting node into the commander pro?

Only that it won't detect the device.  The Commander Pro USB ports do have additional power, so this is like using a 3 device splitter on a single USB port.  A lot of boards don't like that -- X570 being the most picky.  Z790 is pretty good and I am able to use the Commander Pro with both a LNPro and new CUE Link hub connected through it.  However, still device dependent.  It won't detect every device including those from other brands like Lian Li.  In general, the more complex the device, the more likely you are to have issues with connection when using the passthroughs.  There is no reason not to try, but I'll be stunned if you can use 2 additional devices on a X570.  

 

 

There are Lighting Node Core devices (6 fan RGB ports only) and Lighting Node Pro devices (2 LED channels.  RGB Lighting Hub booster required for fan use -- additional power).  So there are a number of ways to do this.  For the Pirate Dog adapters, you need the LED ports on the Commander Pro or Lighting Node Pro.  In general, it doesn't matter if you use the Commander Pro for fan RGB or a different device.  The speed control and RGB can be separate.  However, be aware there are some limits with QL fans on a Lighting Node Core.  Once you fill up the first RGB Lighting Hub with 6, the second channel shuts down.  Likely not what you want here.  So with a similar set-up, I use the Commander Pro LED #1 with a RGB Lighting Hub and whatever fans I am currently using.  Then LED 2 varies between GPU block LEDs, LC100 triangles, or random other RGB devices often with an adapter.  Then I have a Lighting Node Pro with 2 PD adapters for the my CPU block and pump/res from another brand.  

 

You likely want a powered PWM hub if you have more than 8 fans.  With water cooled builds there is no reason not to use one.  It's an inexpensive powered splitter ($12-15) and you have no reason to run fans on the same radiator at different speeds.  The best way to pair things off depends on the case layout, but effectively you drop two banks of three onto the PWM hub to lighten the load on the Commander Pro/XT and keep everything in the same device window.  For you I think this is better than two Commander XTs, but we can analyze that as well.  

[exploiteddna]

18 hours ago, c-attack said:

There is no reason not to try, but I'll be stunned if you can use 2 additional devices on a X570

You mean if I connect 6 fans onto one LNCore, and the other 4 fans on a different LNCore, and plug both LNCores into the Commander Pro USB ports, then connect the Commander Pro to an internal USB header.. you think that will be problematic? Maybe i connect one LNCore to the commander and the other LNCore directly to the second internal usb header.

With respect to controlling power and fan speed, I guess Im a little confused why you cant just use a splitters and connect directly into the commander pro? does it not offer enough power? But you're right, 15 bucks on a hub is cheap and easy. Octo is appealing, we'll see if i can afford it rn..   (times are tight, I'm in between jobs and in the middle of moving (which is why I'm finishing this build so i dont have to pack and keep track of all the parts and pieces that've been sitting here for 18 mos now lol)

 

With respect to case and design if it helps you envision what's going on, it's an O11D-XL with 2 EKWB Quantum Surface P360M rads.. one in the top setup for exhaust (push), the other rad in the bottom set up for intake (pull). The vertical 360 rad spot at the front of the case isn't being used this time (In my original non-XL O11D build I filled that space with a slim HWLabs 360 instead of having a rad in the floor). This time I do have a rad in the floor, and instead I am just putting 3 fans in that front section (set for intake). The 10th fan is in the exhaust section of the case, rear, single 120mm slot. So, 6 fans on intake, 4 on exhaust. D5 pump/res glass heatkiller tube mounted to the 3 vertical fans in the front section

Rads (x2): https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-quantum-surface-p360m-white

EDIT: nvm, i see why you prefer hubs on the commander.. LeDoyen mentioned it above (avoid overloading PWM channels) .. so ok, ill either get a cheap hub for now and Octo later, or Ill get the Octo now.. either way, looks like i need the PWM hub. And once i resolve the RGB/LNCore/RGB-Hub/Commander dilemma, I'll be all set

Edited August 8, 2023 by exploiteddna

[c-attack]

4 hours ago, exploiteddna said:

Maybe i connect one LNCore to the commander and the other LNCore directly to the second internal usb header.

That would be the thing to try first, but on x570 I don't know if you can passthrough even one device.  One device or the other won't be shown in CUE or drops in/out intermittently.  

 

4 hours ago, exploiteddna said:

With respect to controlling power and fan speed, I guess Im a little confused why you cant just use a splitters and connect directly into the commander pro?

I've pushed as high as 10 fans on one Commander Pro via splitters.  It lasted two years.  Others have done more and needed a new Commander fairly soon.  If you have 7-8 fans, then it still  makes sense.  But any more than that and it will cost you more in 2 way splitters than a safe powered PWM hub.  Also, you can't use 3 way splitters on the Commanders so all those banks of 3 become a real pain with 2+1 configurations on the controller.  If you really want individual control over two banks of fans, you can use two PWM hubs.  I shifted over to that pretty quickly when I was in my O11 and running two very different fan types on two different thickness radiators.  

 

 

The major question right now is if you have any of the old style "RGB Lighting Hubs" to use with the Commander Pro for the QL fans.  This is the tiny matchbook size 5v booster hub.  Newer controllers have it internally, but also only one channel for fans.  

You need two of these to get the QL into the system.  They can be hard to find from 3rd parties, so if not then you are forced into 2x Commander XT controllers and there are no more PWM hubs.  

[exploiteddna]

On 8/8/2023 at 8:46 AM, c-attack said:

or drops in/out intermittently

ugh yeah i had that happen to me with my last6 setup that was just using a single commanmder pro and 1 rgb hub.. not even complicated setup, only 6 fans last time and i still had weird dropouts (although now that i think about it i think mightve been caused by conflicting sensors/software). Nonetheless, yeah, id like to avoid BS like that if possible

 

On 8/8/2023 at 8:46 AM, c-attack said:

Others have done more and needed a new Commander fairly soon

like, as in it burns out? or starts acting funny so you relent and just buy a second one for the additional fans?

Im sorta at that point now where i may just say "F it" and get a commander XT to add into the mix.. idk, im in the process of cutting all my hardline tubing runs so its not super pressing but i need to decide and get something ordered in the next few days.

On 8/8/2023 at 8:46 AM, c-attack said:

The major question right now is if you have any of the old style "RGB Lighting Hubs" to use with the Commander Pro for the QL fans.  This is the tiny matchbook size 5v booster hub.  Newer controllers have it internally, but also only one channel for fans.  

Here is the old RGB device I have, on the left. Whatever it's called, but it's clearly different from the lighting nodes i have from the new fans (right side). I only have one fo these readily available, the other one is in a box somewhere and inaccessible while im prepping for a move. But it doesnt look matchbook size to me.. idk maybe it is? Lmk your thoughts on this

I dont understand why if motherboards cant handle these lighing nodes then why even make them and include them with the kit? I could go for one commander XT but buying 2.. idk thats a lot. then i gotta figure out where to mount all these darn things. I guess the good news is I can finish the build at any time and always mess with this stuff after the loop is installed.. if it dcomes to that

[c-attack]

OK, you have enough for the QL.  1 RGB Lighting Hub that can connect to the Commander Pro.  That's 6 QL max.  Then the larger one on the right is the Lighting Node Core.  That's another 6 QL.  Where that might leave you short is on LED ports for RGB water blocks, strips, etc.  There will be one left over on the Commander Pro.  You likely need another.  There is also a Lighting Node PRO, correct?  That would be the two additional LED channels for blocks and a good use for that device. 

 

In the alternative, you get one Commander XT and drop the Lighting Node CORE.  Up to 6QL on Commander Pro.  Up to 6 QL on Com XT.  All individually controllable.  Cost 2 USB and 2 SATA.  That also leaves 2 LED ports (1 on each device) for RGB blocks.  That might be enough.  If not, you might be able to pass the Lighting Node Pro through either Commander to get 2 more LED channels.  I think that would be lucky, but if 2 LED channels is enough than the Commander XT for $50 USD is probably a smarter bet than PWM hub + 3 devices.  That would be 4 SATA and 3 USB 2.  

 

2 hours ago, exploiteddna said:

like, as in it burns out? or starts acting funny so you relent and just buy a second one for the additional fans?

You'll blow the individual fan ports and they will no longer be controllable.  This is a general weakness on the Commander Pro and something they beefed up when it went to the Commander Core/XT model.  We don't see users showing up with blown XT/Core fan headers.  

 

The controllers pre-dated the connection issues.  When the PCI-e 4.0 standard was first added to AMD x570/B550 motherboards, this issue emerged.  It wasn't entirely clear what was wrong at the time, but when Intel Z690 boards (their 1st gen 4 board) starting having the same issues, the underlying issue was clear.  Both had taken some compromises to squeeze Gen 4 onto the board.  USB 2 was the victim.  Worse still, x470 owners who had zero issues up until that point, suddenly found themselves in that predicament after taking the BIOS update to offer compatibility with the new CPUs that went along with x570.  It was something that could have been avoided and those on lower tier MBs always get hit harder with these issues.  On the bright side, both seemed to have learned from the mistake.  It's much less of an issue on subsequent generations.  I am currently running on my Z790  a Lighting Node Pro full of water block strips and a new CUE Link Hub with QX fans through my Commander Pro, both connected through the USB passthrough.  However, it's always going to have some limitations.  I can't run a Lian Li v2 controller hub through it, or another Commander Core/XT type controller.  The device does matter too.  Ultimately, it's 3 way splitter on one port.  You can't keep connecting things without adding more to the line.  

[exploiteddna]

13 hours ago, c-attack said:

OK, you have enough for the QL.  1 RGB Lighting Hub that can connect to the Commander Pro.  That's 6 QL max.  Then the larger one on the right is the Lighting Node Core.  That's another 6 QL.  Where that might leave you short is on LED ports for RGB water blocks, strips, etc.  There will be one left over on the Commander Pro.  You likely need another.  There is also a Lighting Node PRO, correct?  That would be the two additional LED channels for blocks and a good use for that device. 

 

In the alternative, you get one Commander XT and drop the Lighting Node CORE.  Up to 6QL on Commander Pro.  Up to 6 QL on Com XT.  All individually controllable.  Cost 2 USB and 2 SATA.  That also leaves 2 LED ports (1 on each device) for RGB blocks.  That might be enough.  If not, you might be able to pass the Lighting Node Pro through either Commander to get 2 more LED channels.  I think that would be lucky, but if 2 LED channels is enough than the Commander XT for $50 USD is probably a smarter bet than PWM hub + 3 devices.  That would be 4 SATA and 3 USB 2.  

 

You'll blow the individual fan ports and they will no longer be controllable.  This is a general weakness on the Commander Pro and something they beefed up when it went to the Commander Core/XT model.  We don't see users showing up with blown XT/Core fan headers.  

 

The controllers pre-dated the connection issues.  When the PCI-e 4.0 standard was first added to AMD x570/B550 motherboards, this issue emerged.  It wasn't entirely clear what was wrong at the time, but when Intel Z690 boards (their 1st gen 4 board) starting having the same issues, the underlying issue was clear.  Both had taken some compromises to squeeze Gen 4 onto the board.  USB 2 was the victim.  Worse still, x470 owners who had zero issues up until that point, suddenly found themselves in that predicament after taking the BIOS update to offer compatibility with the new CPUs that went along with x570.  It was something that could have been avoided and those on lower tier MBs always get hit harder with these issues.  On the bright side, both seemed to have learned from the mistake.  It's much less of an issue on subsequent generations.  I am currently running on my Z790  a Lighting Node Pro full of water block strips and a new CUE Link Hub with QX fans through my Commander Pro, both connected through the USB passthrough.  However, it's always going to have some limitations.  I can't run a Lian Li v2 controller hub through it, or another Commander Core/XT type controller.  The device does matter too.  Ultimately, it's 3 way splitter on one port.  You can't keep connecting things without adding more to the line.  

Wow thanks for the response, the history of the problem makes perfect sense, well explained. Couple thoughts..

1) yeah, I'm starting to think that commander XT might just be the simplest solution here, and I can dive into the Aquacomputer stuff more deeply when i leave x570 behind later this year (moving and starting a new job, then upgrade). But for now, $50 on a commander XT seems reasonable just to be done with it. Time is money and I'm short on both for the next month or two. So, I think Ill order the commander XT. Ordered the commander XT, it'll be here tomorrow. (along with some heavy duty double sided tape for mounting). Then Im going to read your post again and do the mental math to make sure I understand how you have everything being connected; if i have any questions ill def ask

 

2) I didn't even know QX fans existed.. those are sexy af. How do you like them so far? Also never heard of the CUE Link Hub, I'll have to look into that as well (for the future, not now). Hopefully the Corsair product line continues to improve over time as the needs of the enthusiast community change (although to be fair.. it hasn't changed a whole lot in the last 10 years.. aside from liquid cooling becoming more common, but I digress)

 

3) I guess IM still a little hazy on why you can connect the CUE Link Hub to the commander pro USB passthrough but you cant connect a different corsair product like a Core or XT. When I think of a '3-way splitter on one port', I think of being able to have 3 distinct devices connected to the PC via the single USB mobo header. As far as why some devices are treated differently than others, I'm still a little unclear on. Which, really is just curiosity at this point bc it's moot for my current build plan (I think)

Edited August 11, 2023 by exploiteddna

[c-attack]

1) I think you’ve simplified things quite a bit. 1 Commander Pro, 1 Commander XT. Each gets up to 6 fans. Each has a led port for other RGB devices. Direct individual fan control. No need to worry about grouping things off and the natural groups of three fans are easy to accommodate on the controllers. 2sata, 2 usb. No powered usb hub required — fingers crossed. A lot of x570 users need it regardless of device or connection. More likely if you are running a GPU that is pci-e 4.0. 
 

2) So Corsair has gotten into the interlinked fan game like everyone else. The CUE Link hub is that system to put fans, AIOs, and water blocks all on the same single line connection system. I think the QX are an improvement on the QL in terms of fan noise and airflow. Not that the QL are loud, but the QX have a hybrid style blade that you can run faster for the same noise. The visual appeal is subjective and not substantially different than the QL. Both have the same front/back 34 LED ring arrangement. However, the CUE Link hub does not have any way at the moment to accommodate other brands of RGB or even its own Hydro X parts due out in Q3. It would be an additional controller for fans only. Since it does speed and RGB on the same line, in theory you would drop the Commander XT, use the Link hub for QL, and either a Commander Pro or Lighting Node Pro for water blocks and strips only. 
 

3) It’s supposedly the voltage draw on the single usb header, but with 3 devices on “2 motherboard usb ports” there can be other issues too. Some devices either need more usb voltage or simply don’t share well. What each device actually is doing is an unknown to most of us, but there is a solid history of users with devices and specific motherboards. The x570/B550 groups can have trouble with only 1 device and unsteady usb voltage output got the blame. The Z690 was strange and the hub didn’t help some users — so not voltage per se. Best workaround for them was a USB 3->2 conversion cable, so whatever the underlying cause it goes right to motherboard design.  You don’t see this much at all on x670 and Z790, so it seems changes were made. 
 

So why can I put a CUE Link hub through my Commander Pro and not a Lian Li v2 hub?  I don’t know. The v2 hub could be more voltage needy. Since it doesn’t even show up as an unknown device in Windows, I suspect it does not want to share the line and has communication issues. Works just fine when directly connected. 
 

You won’t know for sure until you try and this is very much motherboard make and model specific. Based on past history, lower tier board owners are far more likely to have issues with even one device by itself. This is less common at the top end of the motherboard range. As such, this is now just a standard warning so you don’t get caught on the first day unable to get things set up. 

[exploiteddna]

(PSA: I took the time to update my system specs on my profile here)

Thanks for explaining the USB passthrough stuff further, it makes sense now. It's more or less empirical so we use history as a guide for what's most likely based on specs. Yeah I'm on x570.. I'd consider the C8 Dark Hero to be high end-ish.. it's not quite the flagship but it's near the top of the ROG x570 line.. so we'll see. And yeah, I have been running my 3080ti at PCIe4 but honestly I doubt it's close to saturation so could run it at 3.0 if absolutely necessary. I've got a PCIe 4.0 riser cable that I'm using to connect it from the EK vertical mount, but Ive also got the stock PCIe 3.0 cable that it came with if I need to use that instead

Dude this iCUE Link stuff looks amazing. At least based on the marketing material I'm looking at..  linking to each other instead of individually linking to a hub or motherboard.. looks like it could make cable management sooo much easier.. This could be a great addition to my upgrade build. But you raise a good point about many products not having support. Idk if I'll ever be in the Corsair ecosystem enough to use their water blocks (who is the OEM? I did a basic google search but didnt see anything). But that's not to say there arent other products of theirs that I'd like to have CUE Link support for. Actually I'd be more inclined to use more of their components if it means cutting down on the wire spaghetti we're so accustomed to dealing with.

I think iCUE Link is a very Apple-esque thing to develop.. in a good way I think. It's all proprietary, so theyre going to make extra money just because of that, but in this situation, to achieve what they did, there was no other way because there is no existing standard that can do what this does (that I know of). They could license the technology to other companies in the future and allow them to use the same method of interface (unique plug), and combined power delivery and RGB data transfer. Guess we'll see. But def something to look forward to later this year

So yeah, my Commander XT arrived today (that was fast) and I'm hoping to finish the loop this weekend, and then I can boot up, install iCUE, and see how the system is handling the controllers. I don't think I've had iCUE installed yet since the last time I clean installed Windows. So, there shouldnt be any old data/config files in %appdata% but I'll double check. And then, fingers crossed..