Asus Z690 Extreme hangs on boot due to iCue.

[sblantipodi]

Hi,

I have 4sticks of SK Hynix from Corsair Dominator 6200MHz C36.

Running them at 5.2GHz.

To run my RGB with iCue I need to disable the SPD Write Protection in BIOS.

Running a Z690 Extreme.

I noticed that my system is 100% stable, no matter what load I put on it, but if I disable the SPD write protection I have a strange problem.

When SPD write protection is off, my RAM LEDs stops working from time to time,

When this happen my PC continue to be stable and I can continue to work on it but if I reboot the PC it hangs on boot with error code 00 and a "Detect memory" error on the oled display.

This is very annoying and it seems to not happen if I disable the SPD write protection.

Is there someone from Corsair that can comment on this please?

Thanks

[sblantipodi]

Is there someone from Corsair that can help?

[BlaiseP]

I have 2 sticks of Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 6200 CL36 (32GB) in a Z690 Hero and the RAM isn't consistently detected by ICUE (mostly 2 sticks, sometimes 1 stick and not always the same one,  other times none). Easy to tell as the stick(s) not being detected remains on Hardware Lighting or fails to light up at all.

My system doesn't have any problem with the RAM using XMP 1 and completes 3 full passes of memtest86 with zero errors. Any software like CPU-Z or AIDA64 have no issues detecting the RAM correctly and yes; "SPD Write Disabled" is set to False in the BIOS.

[Ambidexter]

It may be that with the Extreme, the SPD is updated in real-time, with certain BIOS settings. Basically, the MB may detect that it can OC the memory more, so it changes the SPD (it's some kind of custom SPD using Asus Extreme Memory Profile AEMP - Asus Enhanced Memory Profile. This is supposed to work on memory without specific SPD support, so you basically make a new SPD on these sticks. My 690 Hero is using SPD'ed memory, so I can't use AEMP.

Here's an explanation of it, if that helps at all.

-Ambi

[Corsair Fer]

@sblantipodi What happens if you do not mix kits?  Only use one paired kit in the system in slots A2/B2 of your motherboard.

On 4/11/2022 at 3:03 PM, BlaiseP said:

I have 2 sticks of Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 6200 CL36 (32GB) in a Z690 Hero and the RAM isn't consistently detected by ICUE (mostly 2 sticks, sometimes 1 stick and not always the same one,  other times none). Easy to tell as the stick(s) not being detected remains on Hardware Lighting or fails to light up at all.

My system doesn't have any problem with the RAM using XMP 1 and completes 3 full passes of memtest86 with zero errors. Any software like CPU-Z or AIDA64 have no issues detecting the RAM correctly and yes; "SPD Write Disabled" is set to False in the BIOS.

Do you happen to have any other RGB software installed?  I have not heard of this issue as described.  I'd be interested in looking at which programs you're running.  

[BlaiseP]

2 hours ago, Corsair Fer said:

@sblantipodi What happens if you do not mix kits?  Only use one paired kit in the system in slots A2/B2 of your motherboard.

Do you happen to have any other RGB software installed?  I have not heard of this issue as described.  I'd be interested in looking at which programs you're running.  

No other monitoring software but I was having trouble with the ASUS plugin (I do have Armory Crate installed) causing anything running off the ARGB strips of the board to freeze once ICUE fully loaded. This could be fixed by going into Aura Creator and clicking Save/Apply. I think the order these two products load may have some bearing on the issue. I ended up deleting the ASUS plugin and this solved the freezing issue (I don't use the RGB header, just the ARGB ones so the plugin was near to useless for me anyway). 

Truth be told, I haven't had any ICUE Dominator detection issues for about a week yet I haven't installed or updated any ASUS software in that time. I am now running a pre-release of ICUE v4.23.135 and an updated Streamdeck plugin @Corsair Nick sent me to try since yesterday (ICUE/Streamdeck integration broke in ICUE v4.22.203) and everything is working as expected.

[Corsair Fer]

On 4/15/2022 at 5:40 PM, BlaiseP said:

No other monitoring software but I was having trouble with the ASUS plugin (I do have Armory Crate installed) causing anything running off the ARGB strips of the board to freeze once ICUE fully loaded. This could be fixed by going into Aura Creator and clicking Save/Apply. I think the order these two products load may have some bearing on the issue. I ended up deleting the ASUS plugin and this solved the freezing issue (I don't use the RGB header, just the ARGB ones so the plugin was near to useless for me anyway). 

Truth be told, I haven't had any ICUE Dominator detection issues for about a week yet I haven't installed or updated any ASUS software in that time. I am now running a pre-release of ICUE v4.23.135 and an updated Streamdeck plugin @Corsair Nick sent me to try since yesterday (ICUE/Streamdeck integration broke in ICUE v4.22.203) and everything is working as expected.

Thanks for the information.  The launch order may have affected your system as you mentioned.

[sblantipodi]

On 4/15/2022 at 9:31 PM, Corsair Fer said:

@sblantipodi What happens if you do not mix kits?  Only use one paired kit in the system in slots A2/B2 of your motherboard.

Do you happen to have any other RGB software installed?  I have not heard of this issue as described.  I'd be interested in looking at which programs you're running.  

If I not mix kits there isn't this problem.
The only RGB software I have is iCue and Asus Aura. I tried uninstalling Aura but it doens't have solved it.
 

[Corsair Fer]

7 hours ago, sblantipodi said:

If I not mix kits there isn't this problem.
The only RGB software I have is iCue and Asus Aura. I tried uninstalling Aura but it doens't have solved it.
 

Then it is clear the mixing of kits is causing an issue when SPD write is toggled.
 

Can you clarify if both of these scenarios are causing you to have the issue?

1 - SPD write enabled + XMP + one kit installed (only paired kit of 2 sticks)

2 - SPD write enabled + XMP + both kits installed (4 sticks total)

[sblantipodi]

2 hours ago, Corsair Fer said:

Then it is clear the mixing of kits is causing an issue when SPD write is toggled.
 

Can you clarify if both of these scenarios are causing you to have the issue?

1 - SPD write enabled + XMP + one kit installed (only paired kit of 2 sticks)

2 - SPD write enabled + XMP + both kits installed (4 sticks total)

I'm not using XMP, I have a 6.2GHz kit and XMP is not stable enough for my tastes even with 1 kit only.

1) SPD write enabled + XMP + one kit installed (only paired kit of 2 sticks)
I have not tested this scenario enough, I'm using my PC for working (and gaming) and I need 64GB of RAM.
I have spent 1000€ for 4 6200MHz sticks, I think that they should work even considering the fact that I heavily downclocked the RAM. 🙂
Before the SK Hinyx kit I have bought the Samsung Kit and never worked well, so I have tested Samsung Dominator kit too with same issue.

2) SPD write enabled + XMP + both kits installed (4 sticks total)
this is my normal use case, I have tested it for months, yes, the problem occurs in this scenario.
I even tried using SPD clocks and timings with no overclock (4000MHz C40), problem remains.

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by sblantipodi

[Corsair Fer]

Our kits are only validated to work alongside the other sticks within that kit only.  Having two kits, regardless of part number, may cause issues even if at default timings and frequency.  I would've recommended you stick with DDR4 z690 plus a high-end DDR4 4up kit for best performance if your use case required 64GB instead of going with a DDR5 board and mixing kits, but I digress.

The interesting part in this scenario is the SPD being toggled which is causing issues.  I would like for you to test scenario 1 if you get a chance and report back.

[sblantipodi]

11 hours ago, Corsair Fer said:

Our kits are only validated to work alongside the other sticks within that kit only.  Having two kits, regardless of part number, may cause issues even if at default timings and frequency.  I would've recommended you stick with DDR4 z690 plus a high-end DDR4 4up kit for best performance if your use case required 64GB instead of going with a DDR5 board and mixing kits, but I digress.

The interesting part in this scenario is the SPD being toggled which is causing issues.  I would like for you to test scenario 1 if you get a chance and report back.

come on, mixing kit at default timings and settings MUST work.
what about SPD/JEDEC specifications? Are you saying that your kit does not meet the JEDEC Specifications?

 

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by sblantipodi

[Corsair Fer]

There can be issues as previously explained as the retail kits are not validated to work alongside any other that is not part of the same kit (or box).  The confirmation that you are not having issues when not mixing kits is a testament to that fact.  Using the same part number and version as a mixed set lowers the chance of having problems, but it is not guaranteed.

You seem to be missing vital information of our memory and misconstruing what JEDEC standards are.  We may use different internal components or layout hence the different versions with some part numbers and validate the kits to meet operating spec and work alongside the other modules of that kit only.

The interesting part here is that the SPD toggle is causing issues when mixing memory.  We are in contact with ASUS and looking into your reported issue as it seems this is something that may need to be addressed with a BIOS update.

[sblantipodi]

On 4/21/2022 at 7:44 PM, Corsair Fer said:

There can be issues as previously explained as the retail kits are not validated to work alongside any other that is not part of the same kit (or box).  The confirmation that you are not having issues when not mixing kits is a testament to that fact.  Using the same part number and version as a mixed set lowers the chance of having problems, but it is not guaranteed.

You seem to be missing vital information of our memory and misconstruing what JEDEC standards are.  We may use different internal components or layout hence the different versions with some part numbers and validate the kits to meet operating spec and work alongside the other modules of that kit only.

The interesting part here is that the SPD toggle is causing issues when mixing memory.  We are in contact with ASUS and looking into your reported issue as it seems this is something that may need to be addressed with a BIOS update.

Thank you for the time you are spending answering me and trying to let me understand this thing but I don't feel that this is right.

I can understand that I can't mix kits when using them out of specs with an OC (even a small one), but if there is no OC,
sticks should work, no matter if mixing them or not.
In 20 years and more that I build computers, this was always true.I'm having problems at 4GHz that is perfectly in specs without OC.

I love Corsair, I have so many Corsair's products (I'm a Corsair fan since the first DDR kit), if Corsair makes a product that I need,
a case, a chair, a pair of headphones, some sticks of RAM, I buy Corsair because I know that it's a company that cares about customers.
This is the most important thing to me, even more than the absolute price and the price/quality ratio. I know that I can trust your support.

Hope that you and Asus will solve this problem soon.

Please keep us updated if you find a solution and thank you for the continued support.
 

[LeDoyen]

even within the same "DDR4 2133" name there are several variants of the standard with different timings. The chips from different kits can be either of those, so even without OC it could be unstable.

For DDR5, it could be the same.. haven't looked into it 🙂

Edited April 23, 2022 by LeDoyen

[Corsair Notepad]

On 4/23/2022 at 9:35 AM, sblantipodi said:

Thank you for the time you are spending answering me and trying to let me understand this thing but I don't feel that this is right.

I can understand that I can't mix kits when using them out of specs with an OC (even a small one), but if there is no OC,
sticks should work, no matter if mixing them or not.
In 20 years and more that I build computers, this was always true.I'm having problems at 4GHz that is perfectly in specs without OC.

I love Corsair, I have so many Corsair's products (I'm a Corsair fan since the first DDR kit), if Corsair makes a product that I need,
a case, a chair, a pair of headphones, some sticks of RAM, I buy Corsair because I know that it's a company that cares about customers.
This is the most important thing to me, even more than the absolute price and the price/quality ratio. I know that I can trust your support.

Hope that you and Asus will solve this problem soon.

Please keep us updated if you find a solution and thank you for the continued support.
 

As @Corsair Fer has pointed out mixing memory, even of the same exact part number, can lead to incompatibility between the memory kits causing system stability issues, prevent XMP from working correctly, or even prevent the system from booting. It is not a supported practice or something that is covered under warranty as the memory kits are only validated and guaranteed to work in the configuration they are packaged and sold as, and with the corresponding module.

Mixing memory modules has never been a good idea going back to even the SDRAM days, but the incompatibility issues are seen more in the last few generations of DDR as the spec has gotten tighter.

[sblantipodi]

On 4/26/2022 at 5:49 PM, Corsair Notepad said:

As @Corsair Fer has pointed out mixing memory, even of the same exact part number, can lead to incompatibility between the memory kits causing system stability issues, prevent XMP from working correctly, or even prevent the system from booting. It is not a supported practice or something that is covered under warranty as the memory kits are only validated and guaranteed to work in the configuration they are packaged and sold as, and with the corresponding module.

Mixing memory modules has never been a good idea going back to even the SDRAM days, but the incompatibility issues are seen more in the last few generations of DDR as the spec has gotten tighter.

I think that we need to escalate this issue to some employees that knows what JEDEC is and why memory should work at JEDEC specs. 🙂

[sblantipodi]

@Corsair Notepad I don't want to be unpolite and I'm sorry if I appeared unpolite,
but is it clear that I have the same problem even at JEDEC frequency/timings/voltages?

What is the official statement from Corsair?

Can Corsair's memory work without problems at JEDEC specs (frequency/timings/voltages) ?

[sblantipodi]

Can I have an answer please?

Is it confirmed that Corsair does not guarantee its RAM to work at JEDEC specs when mixing kit with same specs?

I have an Asus Z690 Extreme board.

Should I consider my 4 sticks of CMT32GX5M2X6200C36 6200MHz C36 not able to run @4000MHz C40 ?

[sblantipodi]

@Corsair Fer and @Corsair Notepad can I have an answer please?

I think that this is an interesting topic for the entire community.

[Corsair Fer]

You have been answered in multiple places by multiple agents, including the ticketing system and these forums.  You can expect the kit to be used in its proper validated configuration, which is in a single paired kit of 2 sticks, not 4.  

If any issues should arise whenever you are using the memory in a supported configuration, please feel free to reach out to our team through the ticketing system.

[sblantipodi]

I have tried 4 kind of different sticks on the same mobo, it isn't clearly a Corsair issue.

I contacted Asus and they are refusing to assist me. 

They know that their motherboard have design flaws but they can't solve the issue.

Guys, don't make the same error I made, don't buy Asus, good marketing bad products and customer service.

 

[sblantipodi]

Asus is collecting data from me but they still not have a solution. 
No one said me that they are working on it, no one said me that they where able to reproduce the problem.

I am continuing to test but I'm pretty sure that SPD Write Protection to FALSE and Corsair iCue is the culprit of this problem.
I have uninstalled iCue and never had the problem since then.

With icue it happen "always", two times in a full day at least, without iCue it seems that it never happen, testing from three days now without icue and never happened.

Reporting if it happen in the future without icue.

This isn't a fix, it's a workaround but without icue I can't manage all my Corsair peripherals.

@Corsair Fer Said that, are we sure that this is an Asus problem?

[sblantipodi]

I bought another alder lake pc for my wife and I choosed to buy GSkill this time.

Corsair and Asus is not giving a solution or support for the problem after six months of the product release.

I tried my wife's GSkill kits and with GSkill there is no problem with RGB and SPD Write since I don't use icue to control that sticks.

I lost a lot on money with Corsair memory trying all the various kits,
I'm in doubt if selling my last 6200MHz Corsair kits to buy GSkill. 

 

[sblantipodi]

There are so many people with similar problem with iCue crashing their system.

Months since no reply to a thread like that from Corsair.

What's happening to the good old Corsair customer service?