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Commander pro - Incorrect RPM, cannot sustain stable rpm


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Hi All, 

I recently got a commander pro with my mobo upgrade. previously i was using a asus fan extension board but they dont have one for this board. So i had to get a new fan controller. I have all my fans based of the water temp in my custom loop. Unfortunately I cannot seem to get this thing to work properly. The RPM of all fans seem to range between 700 - 17,500 rpm. Completely random. The only time when the reading is accurate is when the fan is at 0% or 100%. Most fans are the same 4 pin corsair sp120. The "Front set" are a 3 pin and they work perfectly fine, "radiator right is split between 2". When i create a "test" preset with set RPM, they are not even close, they just go between basically off to full speed every second. So far things ive tried:


connect fan to motherboard ( faulty fan? ), - nope works fine, reading correct, full control and smooth.

select manually which fan is 4 or 3 pin. - no difference at all. 

update all firmware's,

connect only 1 fan - same issue. 

I do have windows 11 installed, not sure if this has any drivers conflicts. Asus Ai suite is not installed, HWinfo is turned off and shut down. Only icue is working and monitoring. 

As you can see from the screenshot, they are all linked to the same profile and yet the range between them is crazy. completely random. spacer.png

Any ideas ? 

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We do only tend to see this when there is a conflict.

You mentioned HWInfo. Did you install the driver? it does that by default and leaving that driver installed (Persistent Driver) can cause the issue. You do need to specifically go into the Safety settings and disable the Corsair/Asetek support AND make sure that you don't load the persistent driver. Just shutting down HWInfo doesn't necessarily fix it.

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4 hours ago, DevBiker said:

We do only tend to see this when there is a conflict.

You mentioned HWInfo. Did you install the driver? it does that by default and leaving that driver installed (Persistent Driver) can cause the issue. You do need to specifically go into the Safety settings and disable the Corsair/Asetek support AND make sure that you don't load the persistent driver. Just shutting down HWInfo doesn't necessarily fix it.

I didnt install the driver. The HWinfo is a portable version without it. I have however, just disabled the Corsair/Asetek support. That did not solve the issue but I can now open both and not have icue crash. I wonder if asus armoury has anything to do with it too. It installed automatically from bios. I have ordered some bequiet fans which will arrive on/before thursday and hopefully they will work better. What is bizzare is that a basic corsair case fan works and my 3 pin fans work too but just this fan type doesnt. 

nope. armoury crate removed, restarted, no change. still insane RPM. now just need to reinstall it. 

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Can you be more specific about exactly what fans are installed?  “4 pin SP” seems like SP-Elite possibly mixed with 3 pin DC SP-Pro?  If you are mixing DC and PWM fans, make sure to set the header accordingly. Don’t leave it on auto to fan test every boot. Is there anything else in play like PWM splitters?  Fan hub?
 

Unfortunately those BeQuiet fans are not likely to help resolve this. They use a different PWM spec and don’t respond well on Corsair controllers.  You are likely to see this same behavior that is common to BeQuiet but unusual for Corsair fans. 

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i wonder if the fan curve going up to a very optimistic 5000 RPM may not help.

Maybe try to set it to PWM % ?

Also some fans can't do zero RPM mode, so they may spin at full speed when the PWM goes to zero, the temp drops and they slow down brutally when PWM starts to increase.. 

The 3 pin fans will work good with this curve, but the PWM ones may not like it.

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11 hours ago, c-attack said:

Can you be more specific about exactly what fans are installed?  “4 pin SP” seems like SP-Elite possibly mixed with 3 pin DC SP-Pro?  If you are mixing DC and PWM fans, make sure to set the header accordingly. Don’t leave it on auto to fan test every boot. Is there anything else in play like PWM splitters?  Fan hub?
 

Unfortunately those BeQuiet fans are not likely to help resolve this. They use a different PWM spec and don’t respond well on Corsair controllers.  You are likely to see this same behavior that is common to BeQuiet but unusual for Corsair fans. 

Yeah of course. SP120 high performance PWM CO-9050007-WW. They are old fans. Had them since my first build in 2015 and they worked fine so didnt bother changing. Front DC fans are default 140mm case fans that came with Corsair 780T case. Fans are configured manually (4 pin and 3 pin correctly). It was one of the first things I have attempted. Splitters are used for the 3 pin ( "front set" and they are the only ones working correctly lol) and "radiator right" (which also does left fan) Rest is individually controlled. Fans have power consumption of 0.18A (0.3A for front set) so total of 1.68A, below 4a limit and 1a per channel.

If the silent wings 3 fans dont work i might return the commander. 8 silent wings 3 cost a bit lol and they seem quite good on paper. Its a shame because i like the autostop feature which i havent been able to enable in BIOS when in PWM more, only DC . Having 12700k passively cooled whilst just browsing internet is nice. Fingers crossed they work lol I needed to upgrade those fans anyway. 

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On 2/7/2022 at 1:25 PM, LeDoyen said:

i wonder if the fan curve going up to a very optimistic 5000 RPM may not help.

Maybe try to set it to PWM % ?

Also some fans can't do zero RPM mode, so they may spin at full speed when the PWM goes to zero, the temp drops and they slow down brutally when PWM starts to increase.. 

The 3 pin fans will work good with this curve, but the PWM ones may not like it.

sorry for not replying earlier. im a new member here and i can only post 1 comment a day. The 5000rpm is default for icue. You cant change it or at least i wasnt able to find it. When i set it to PWM %, the fans dont ramp up and down BUT the speed reading is still completely wrong. This is an issue because i couldnt find a way to set the curve based on PWM % and corsair does the speed curve based on RPM of the fan ( so if you have 2 different fans, 1 slower than another, 1 can be spinning at 100% whilst the faster one could be at 60%. Not sure I understand the purpose of this other than to make it harder for everyone but there must be a reason. If they did a curve based on the PWM % instead of insisting on RPM it would be all good. Reading would still be wrong but I wouldn't care as long as the fans spin at correct speed.  

Turning off and back on is not the issue. Playing games when the fans are supposed to be around 1200rpm is. They go from 800 - 2200rpm all the time ( readings go from 200 - 23,000 RPM+) so the software is trying to adjust it. It doesnt know that the reading is incorrect so it keeps sending incorrect signal to fan to slow down or speed up. 

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duh.. i was so used to Aquasuite, i forgot that iCUE doesn't do PWM fan curves.. that's extremely dumb indeed.. it always relies on speed readout for control.

Indeed the only time i had bogus speed readouts was with HWinfo with corsair support enabled.. but that doesn't seem to be the problem. You didn't mention them but i imagine you don't have HWmonitor or Aida64 running either. they will behave the same.

If there's no software conflict, i would try to make one speed curve per fan type, to keep the max speed just below the fan's maximum speed.

I guess one for the 140, and one for the 120mm will do since you don't want to run them at full speed anyway. Not sure if the weird speed readings would still happen like that.

 

Now, if your motherboard has a termal sensor input, which is more than likely, you still have the AI suite option to control the loop without breaking your balls... and your ears.

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2 hours ago, LeDoyen said:

duh.. i was so used to Aquasuite, i forgot that iCUE doesn't do PWM fan curves.. that's extremely dumb indeed.. it always relies on speed readout for control.

Indeed the only time i had bogus speed readouts was with HWinfo with corsair support enabled.. but that doesn't seem to be the problem. You didn't mention them but i imagine you don't have HWmonitor or Aida64 running either. they will behave the same.

If there's no software conflict, i would try to make one speed curve per fan type, to keep the max speed just below the fan's maximum speed.

I guess one for the 140, and one for the 120mm will do since you don't want to run them at full speed anyway. Not sure if the weird speed readings would still happen like that.

 

Now, if your motherboard has a termal sensor input, which is more than likely, you still have the AI suite option to control the loop without breaking your balls... and your ears.

yeah i was thinking of buying the quadro or octo fan controller too. Just really didnt want yet another software for just 1 thing. I already had icue as all my peripherals are corsair, ram etc. But if the bequiet fans dont work too ill probably have to deal with another software on startup or just a generic splitter and lots of cables from motherboard.... I do have a temp port so i can do that, just didnt want cables running through motherboard trying to reach each fan header. 

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Silent Wings 3 DC fans should work as expected.  The PWM ones need help.  They will work if you wash the PWM signal through a PWM hub/repeater.  This works for me with a limited number to control, but obviously forces them all to the same speed.  That may not be a viable solution if you are doing the whole case.

 

Not a lot of old SP120 "ring fans" come up in conversation these days, but if there was a fundamental PWM incompatibility it should have come up in the earlier years when there were a lot still in use.  I do not remember that and these "Euro spec" fans from a few companies like BeQuiet, Noctua, and EK were the first ones to present themselves like this. 

 

I am not sure what this is.  We see this with multi-fan splitters (3-4 fans) and when other programs interfere.  So aside from some very specific models from the brands just listed, it is not common at all.  The only other thing I can think of is to try the SP-PWM with the DC fans not connected at all.  There was another user having control issues like this with a mixed set of PWM/DC fans.  That should not happen, but he/she was able to resolve it by individually designating the headers as 3 pin or 4 pin as appropriate.  The auto detect protocol was not working with the mixed set.  While ultimately this would not solve your problem, it may highlight something that needs to be addressed.  

 

 

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33 minutes ago, c-attack said:

Silent Wings 3 DC fans should work as expected.  The PWM ones need help.  They will work if you wash the PWM signal through a PWM hub/repeater.  This works for me with a limited number to control, but obviously forces them all to the same speed.  That may not be a viable solution if you are doing the whole case.

 

Not a lot of old SP120 "ring fans" come up in conversation these days, but if there was a fundamental PWM incompatibility it should have come up in the earlier years when there were a lot still in use.  I do not remember that and these "Euro spec" fans from a few companies like BeQuiet, Noctua, and EK were the first ones to present themselves like this. 

 

I am not sure what this is.  We see this with multi-fan splitters (3-4 fans) and when other programs interfere.  So aside from some very specific models from the brands just listed, it is not common at all.  The only other thing I can think of is to try the SP-PWM with the DC fans not connected at all.  There was another user having control issues like this with a mixed set of PWM/DC fans.  That should not happen, but he/she was able to resolve it by individually designating the headers as 3 pin or 4 pin as appropriate.  The auto detect protocol was not working with the mixed set.  While ultimately this would not solve your problem, it may highlight something that needs to be addressed.  

 

 

well that sucks. i did buy the pwm version. How come the commander pro cant control them but all motherboards can ? 

I did disconnect the DC fans. same result. I have only just noticed that the "bottom left" fan 1 is actually working correctly. Even on previous screenshots. Checked what's the difference between them. Extension cable. (ones provided inside the commander pro box) Swapped them around. all work fine without an extension cable. Well i need them, its a large case. 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Patrick3463 said:

Swapped them around. all work fine without an extension cable

OK, that is more inline with previous experiences.  Splitters and extensions sometimes cause this wonky behavior.  You might try a different extension cable model and not all extensions cause a loss of control.  I have been using the Noctua colored extensions for several years with several dozen different fans types on the Commander without issue.  However, they are somewhat stiff and may not be to everyone's taste.  Regardless, a different extension may sort this.  

 

As for the 'Euro spec fans', you are correct and most motherboards do not have control issues.  However, if everyone was using the same PWM standard then all fans would work on all controllers.  It's a very limited selection of fans that do not respond, but they include the BeQuiet SW2 and SW3 fans, select Noctua industrial models, and older EK Vardar fans.  Those just happen to be popular models with a lot of enthusiasts.  Running them through a powered PWM hub seems to bridge the language gap, but also highlights how much wiggle room there is in the specifications.  

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15 hours ago, c-attack said:

OK, that is more inline with previous experiences.  Splitters and extensions sometimes cause this wonky behavior.  You might try a different extension cable model and not all extensions cause a loss of control.  I have been using the Noctua colored extensions for several years with several dozen different fans types on the Commander without issue.  However, they are somewhat stiff and may not be to everyone's taste.  Regardless, a different extension may sort this.  

 

As for the 'Euro spec fans', you are correct and most motherboards do not have control issues.  However, if everyone was using the same PWM standard then all fans would work on all controllers.  It's a very limited selection of fans that do not respond, but they include the BeQuiet SW2 and SW3 fans, select Noctua industrial models, and older EK Vardar fans.  Those just happen to be popular models with a lot of enthusiasts.  Running them through a powered PWM hub seems to bridge the language gap, but also highlights how much wiggle room there is in the specifications.  

ive tried 2 extension cables. the provided ones from corsair and some £2 akasa one. Same behaviour. Not to worry about. Anyway back to the bequiet and commander pro issue. I have my new fans and what would be the best way to make them work with the c-pro ? My top 3 fans can be split. bottom 2 also, front 2 can be split. Rear fan i can add to the front set. So total 3 powered splitters, Any recommendations to fix up the rpm issue without making it a mess?  Thanks

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Rather than splitting them up, you’ll be bundling them together on a PWM hub. This will make them all run the same speed. Fine for radiators but if you have 1-2 fans were you want individual control, it becomes problematic. Most PWM hubs have a large capacity, 6-10 fans per hub. If you are fine with everything running the same speed, than one is all you need.  They are inexpensive enough you can do two if needed for control purposes. Each will connect to the Commander and use 1 PWM header. In effect, a powered splitter. 
 

This is one example.  There are several other brands at similar price.

 

The other possibility might be some type of pull up harness.  BeQuiet’s PWM peculiarities are not just limited to Corsair controllers and others have devised ways to even out the PWM curve.  This might allow for more individual control, but I have not been keeping up on this, if they still can be purchased, or if it’s really financially viable for high numbers of fans.

 

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2 hours ago, c-attack said:

Rather than splitting them up, you’ll be bundling them together on a PWM hub. This will make them all run the same speed. Fine for radiators but if you have 1-2 fans were you want individual control, it becomes problematic. Most PWM hubs have a large capacity, 6-10 fans per hub. If you are fine with everything running the same speed, than one is all you need.  They are inexpensive enough you can do two if needed for control purposes. Each will connect to the Commander and use 1 PWM header. In effect, a powered splitter. 
 

This is one example.  There are several other brands at similar price.

 

The other possibility might be some type of pull up harness.  BeQuiet’s PWM peculiarities are not just limited to Corsair controllers and others have devised ways to even out the PWM curve.  This might allow for more individual control, but I have not been keeping up on this, if they still can be purchased, or if it’s really financially viable for high numbers of fans.

 

Thank you. ive seen the xspc powered pwm splitter, ordered it yesterday after reading your messages. Its being delivered tomorrow. Today SW3 got delivered.  F1, F2, F3, "rear fan" are those. they work flawless. EVEN WITH THE EXTENSION. They have like 50cm cable so i dont need them but if i wanted, 80cm cable, it works.!!!!!! -At last xD lol now i just need to return the xspc pwm splitter. 

They are tested outside the case.... watch it all go **** tits up when they are all in the case and all connected.... hahaha ill wait with returning the pwm splitter. worst case it will be 2 splitters. 1 for rad, rest for case. 

sw3.png.338a339d4765db174c539d285e7c8285.png

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Can you specifically list which SW3 model you purchased?  This has been an issue for a long time, so if those work perfectly then something may have changed on the fan end.  That would be welcome news, but I just put my old SW2 PWM and SW3 on and they won't respond to control.  However, I have a newer SW3 High Speed from May 2020 that does seem to respond.  

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For those who will read this further. Splitters are not the same.

I have a generic fan splitter. It varies RPM a lot. Back to 1300-1900rpm (better than 700-21,000 RPM xD) 

splitter.png.a7ec6bf94c46114d9c343c5ba3e0ec91.png

NOCTUA NA-yc1 splitter worked flawless.  same type of fans, reading was staying within 50RPM between each read at 80%. ( 1450rpm - 1490rpm ) and 2022 - 2064 at 100%

658067301_noctuasplitter.png.d32905093210594ddc54e71db0cdebed.png

When i swapped the splitters between ports again ( noctua in port 3 now ) The port 3 is reading consistent RPM whereas port 6 is 300rpm off. Same as before. So splitter is important. However port 3 fans are still not going 2100rpm even with noctua splitter. ( dont sound fast either so not incorrect reading). Next was swapping the fans to ensure its not a fan issue. 

1002031952_swappedsplitters.png.11bb0865d2d692fa5d045e144d4c8b17.png

Swapped fans (noctua still at port 3) and the same fans that reached 2100rpm in port 6 cannot get above 1700rpm in port 3.  ( They even sound quieter) 

777359389_fansswapped.png.5cbaaad5df0d7d2fb3a112eabd155bed.png

Port 2 without any splitter ( direct ) has results of 2093-2138 rpm ( basically 40rpm difference so similar to noctua splitter )  

direct.png.ada6a0064641945c39c3584cb2fe12e8.png.

 

Oh yeah port 1 is completely frozen. No response whatsoever. That port is just broken. I took a fan and directly tested each port. This is the result at 100% pwm. 

F1 - broken 300rpm max - no response
F2 - 2054rpm max
F3 - 1700rpm max
F4 - 2050rpm max
F5 - 2054rpm max
F6 - 2054rpm max

 

So. to conclude. :

1 - splitter makes a difference. Not sure how but it does. 
2 - 
I either have a faulty controller with port 1 broken and port 3 refusing to go 100% speed. Or this controller is not very well built.... considering ive had many corsair products without any issues. Im hoping for the first option. RMA time. 

3 - Turns out new variants of SW3 work with C-Pro

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2 hours ago, c-attack said:

Can you specifically list which SW3 model you purchased?  This has been an issue for a long time, so if those work perfectly then something may have changed on the fan end.  That would be welcome news, but I just put my old SW2 PWM and SW3 on and they won't respond to control.  However, I have a newer SW3 High Speed from May 2020 that does seem to respond.  

140mm BL071 SW3 High speed
120mm BL070 SW3 High speed

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I think i also understand the RPM control rather than the PWM% now. At low rpm they are all within 1rpm from each other. All identical speed, identical noise. PWM is just whatever the fan thinks 10% is. Plus those bequiet fans have insanely low speed ability and now the loudest part in my pc is the D5 pump lol at lowest rpm. Yup safe to say that once i get the RMA with port 1 & 3 fixed, this is it. All fixed. Case closed.

SP120 old versions do not work with extender.
Noctua splitters are required, cheap dont work. 
SW3 high speed 2022 version work with c-pro
C-pro is faulty 😄

 921575354_lowrpm.png.dee029624062111e7e3d916125a4598b.png

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Before you RMA the Commander, try force updating the firmware. The “stuck port 1” issue is an old one. It occurs very infrequently and I’ve seen it twice across 5 years and 4 Commanders. If this is the issue, port 1 should respond after the flash. If it does not, then there is something else in play. This always affects port 1 and only port 1, so I’m not sure how the port 3 behavior fits into this or if it’s on the fan/wiring side. 

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12 hours ago, c-attack said:

Before you RMA the Commander, try force updating the firmware. The “stuck port 1” issue is an old one. It occurs very infrequently and I’ve seen it twice across 5 years and 4 Commanders. If this is the issue, port 1 should respond after the flash. If it does not, then there is something else in play. This always affects port 1 and only port 1, so I’m not sure how the port 3 behavior fits into this or if it’s on the fan/wiring side. 

how does one force update c-pro ? Updates had been done before on all devices, no new update was found so i cant install anythign using icue. Any dev. options to reinstall it ?  

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Go to the Commander Pro tab.  "Device Settings" -> Check for update -> None -> then force update will appear.  This reloads the current firmware.  Fans will go nuts for 3 seconds while it reloads.  

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2 hours ago, c-attack said:

Go to the Commander Pro tab.  "Device Settings" -> Check for update -> None -> then force update will appear.  This reloads the current firmware.  Fans will go nuts for 3 seconds while it reloads.  

done. fixed port 1. you were right. However, port 3 is now completely broken. No control, no RPM, Fan at 100%. Tried the SP120 again, both 120 and 140mm versions. port 3 after the force update just refuses to function. 

2026443740_2ndissue.thumb.png.0c8cde6a0801f0b6b334fed893cba4f8.png

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On 2/8/2022 at 8:51 AM, LeDoyen said:

duh.. i was so used to Aquasuite, i forgot that iCUE doesn't do PWM fan curves.. that's extremely dumb indeed.. it always relies on speed readout for control.

Well, the Commander Core and Commander Core XT does do PWM fan curves, based on percentages. Maybe you should refrain from making comments or statements about things that you have little or no personal experience with, eh?

And we can debate the merits of PWM % control vs RPM control - there are certainly benefits to being able to control based on pure fan speed rather than PWM percentages - that's not really relevant. But just because most controllers implement PWM % control (because it's simpler to implement), doesn't mean that it's the best way - it's just the way that you are used to.

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