Commander core XT chained to commander pro

[StephanM]

Hi,

I got an obsidian 1000D with 30 LL120 fans, to manage them I use

• 3 PWM hubs
• 6 light hubs
• 3 light nodes
• 2 commander pro

The idea was to replace most of the PWM/light hubs and nodes with 4 commander core XT to get this configuration :

• 2 commander pro
• 1 light hub
• 4 commander core XT

My problem is when I plug the core XT on the USB port of the commader pro only two are recognised by ICUE.

I tryed all swapping possibilities, they all work individualy.

They work if i plug two, on the same pro or one on each.

But more than two and the others got a "code error 10 device can not start".

Is there any limitation on the number of commander core XT/pro plugged ?

 

[c-attack]

Motherboard series?  AMD boards won't be able to handle this.  The Commander Pro USB passthrough ports are passive and effectively the same as a USB splitter.  Loading up more devices with a heavy draw may lead to recognition or intermittent drop problems.  Most users are going to need a powered USB hub and with that kind of traffic I would suggest it regardless of MB brand.  

[StephanM]

I've got a Z390 aorus master g2.

Just ordered 2 NZXT internal hub, I'll update when I got them.

[c-attack]

Typically not an issue for Intel, but that is a lot of hardware going through one port.  You might only need 1 NZXT hub, but given the size and expense invested already that may be easier for installation purposes.  You can momentarily connect the other devices to MB directly for the purpose of demonstrating functionality, but this is the issue for 99% of users.  

Edited December 4, 2021 by c-attack

[StephanM]

Hubs here, and plugged, and still no more than 2 commander core xt working at the same time.

I even tried to do a new install of windows 10 on a spare ssd, got exactly the same code 10 error.

I even tried withour the commander pro.

I start to thin kthat you can't plug more than 2 commander core xt.

[StephanM]

Little update :

I did order an usb 3 to usb 2 internal adapter and plugged one nzxt hub on it. And now all my 4 commander core xt are working perfectly. It seems there's some limitation with usb 2 that prevent you to have more than 2 commander core xt, but it works with usb 3.

As i lost my front usb 3 plugs I did order an usb 3 pcie card extension, should be there monday.

[StephanM]

The pcie extension card did not work : where my motherboard usb 3 works with 4 commander core xt, the pcie card did saw only 2 of them, same error code 10 as the motherboard usb 2. I send the card back.

I saw a couple of post on reddit where people could not have more than 2 commmander core xt working.

Using a usb 3 to usb 2 internal adapter and the nzxt usb 2 hub i manage to have all 4 commander xt working, I left my 2 commander pro plugged on the motherboard usb 2 headers.

The cable management is a bit more clear as the commander core xt replace at the same time a pwm hub, a lightning hub and a lightning node pro.

 

 

 

[c-attack]

20 minutes ago, StephanM said:

I saw a couple of post on reddit where people could not have more than 2 commmander core xt working.

I don't know that we have seen this come up before, but then 4 Com XTs is not common either.  I think we'll need Corsair to look into this.  I don't have enough to test it, but have run 2 Commander Pros + Commander Core at the same time.  Perhaps there is something different about the XT or Com Core devices.    

[StephanM]

I did get in touch with Corsair support about that, and they think it's the bandwith of usb 2 that is the problem.

So to resume my tests this is number of commander core xt working :

- usb 2.0 : 2 commander core xt

- usb 3.1 : 4 commander core xt

I'm upgrading from z390 to z690 this weekend ( finaly find a kit of vengeance ddr5 at msrp ). I will test again.

 

[c-attack]

1 hour ago, StephanM said:

So to resume my tests this is number of commander core xt working :

- usb 2.0 : 2 commander core xt

- usb 3.1 : 4 commander core xt

Interesting.  That does seem like a valid theory.  Hopefully things hold up on Z690.  There are some reports of USB connectivity issues on the new chipset, although not enough to piece together any reasonable theories.  

[CrunchLab]

I'm having the exact same problem. I'm trying to run 8 Corsair ML Elite fans (three 140mm front intake, four 120mm side intake, one 140mm rear exhaust) and 6 ML Elite fans on my AIO (top push/pull exhaust). To accomplish this, I'm trying to run the Commander Core included with the H170i Elite LCD (for the six radiator fans) plus another 2 Commander Core XTs (1 for the four 120mm fans and 1 for the four 140mm fans), which will require 4 USB 2.0 connections. My Asus Crosshair VIII Extreme has two USB 2.0 headers so I purchased a NZXT powered USB hub and no matter what configuration I try my computer will only run two things. I tried running everything off the NZXT hub plugged into one of my motherboard headers, I tried running the included Y-splitter with the H170i on one header and daisy chaining the Commander Core XTs into the other motherboard header, and every other combination you could think of. Since the H170i Elite requires 2 USB connections that's all I can get iCue to display. If I unplug one of the AIO connections, I can see one of my Commander Core XTs. If I unplug both AIO connections iCue displays both of the Commander Core XTs. I even purchased another NZXT hub thinking I had originally received a defective one. Digging into my Device Manager I'm getting "This device cannot start. (Code 10) Insufficient system resources exist to complete the API." I tried every troubleshooting recommendation I could find. I reinstalled iCue, I flashed my motherboard BIOS to stock and back, I updated my chipset drivers, I deleted Upper/Lower registries for the unresponsive USB devices, I deleted and let Windows reinstall USB Host Controllers, and tried a fresh Windows install. Luckily the Commanders are receiving power, so all my fans are spinning, but it's annoying that I spent a lot of money building this rig and have no control over the RGB on most of my fans.

Case - Corsair 7000D Airflow

CPU - AMD Ryzen 5900x

Motherboard - Asus Crosshair VIII Extreme

RAM - G.Skill 32gb (4 x 8gb) 3600 CL14

GPU - Asus ROG Strix 3080ti

[StephanM]

I took some times before updating after I replaced my motherboard. But here the update :

I'm on Z690 now, I got a commander pro on each of the motherboard usb 2.0 internal port, one of them got the nzxt usb hub connected with all 4 commander xt on it. It works quite well : from time to time on boot a couple of led can be of a different color (I'm using static color with lighting link all ll120 with red outside and white inside). I just swap red and white and then back on the affected commander and they got back to my original design.

I did not have those problems with a configuration full of lightning hub, lightning nodes and pmw hubs, but it was quite a mess for cable management.

The error code 10 come from the lack of bandwith on the usb 2 controler, it seems the controler on the z690 got more bandwith than the one on my old z390. It seems the commander core xt use quite a lot of bandwith, even without the commander pro I could only get 2 working with the z390.

What did works to go around was to connect the nzxt hub on a usb 3 controler through a usb 3 to usb 2 internal adapter. You can either plug it on one of the motherboard internal usb 3, but you loose one for your front panel, or buy a pcie extension card with internal usb 3.

[Corsair Notepad]

39 minutes ago, StephanM said:

I took some times before updating after I replaced my motherboard. But here the update :

I'm on Z690 now, I got a commander pro on each of the motherboard usb 2.0 internal port, one of them got the nzxt usb hub connected with all 4 commander xt on it. It works quite well : from time to time on boot a couple of led can be of a different color (I'm using static color with lighting link all ll120 with red outside and white inside). I just swap red and white and then back on the affected commander and they got back to my original design.

I did not have those problems with a configuration full of lightning hub, lightning nodes and pmw hubs, but it was quite a mess for cable management.

The error code 10 come from the lack of bandwith on the usb 2 controler, it seems the controler on the z690 got more bandwith than the one on my old z390. It seems the commander core xt use quite a lot of bandwith, even without the commander pro I could only get 2 working with the z390.

What did works to go around was to connect the nzxt hub on a usb 3 controler through a usb 3 to usb 2 internal adapter. You can either plug it on one of the motherboard internal usb 3, but you loose one for your front panel, or buy a pcie extension card with internal usb 3.

You should not be plugging the internal powered USB hub to the USB Passthroughs on the Commander Pro fan controllers. If you are going to utilize an internal powered USB hub then it should be connected directly to the motherboard header, and then the other devices plugged in to the powered USB hub.

But it does appear you are at this time also bumping up against and exceeding the USB controller's bandwidth capabilities at the same time.

[WITCHBANE]

I want to first say thank you all that have submitted to this thread, as I'm new here and this being my first thread as well.

I recently build a new system and had issues with 4 Commander XT's running and showing within the software. Only 1 XT shows within the software. Currently I'm running all QL fans, (6) 140s, and (15) 120s (Push/Pull on (6) 140s and Push/Pull on (8) 120s.

My build is the this: 

Thermaltake P8, EVGA X570 FTW, EVGA 3080ti FTW3, AMD 5800X 3D, Corsair Dominator Pro 32GB, (2) EK Flat 240 res with D5, Pacific MX2 Ultra CPU Waterblock, EVGA 1300 GT PSU. 

I have (2) USB headers on the motherboard that are 2.0.  Just for clarification, I'm seeing that I can use the an Commander PRO on each motherboard header and utilize it as a splitter giving me  (2) XTs per Pro? This would also run through iCUE, correct?

 

Thank you in advance! 

Edited August 13, 2022 by WITCHBANE

[LeDoyen]

It would be better, to avoid detection bugs in icue, to use as few commander units as possible.

Since you use push pulls, that's a ton of fans that will use the same speed. You could group them on powered PWM hubs and only use one PWM output per radiator.

Same for the pumps, they will have to run at the same speed, so they can go on a simple 2 way PWM splitter

Bottom fans, 2 rads, side fans, pumps, back fan, that's 6 PWM outputs. You can drive all that with one commander unit only

What you can't do without is a bunch of Node core lighting controllers, and those don't cause any issues with iCUE, so you could go that route. If you bought your fans in 3 packs, you should already have them actually.

And finally, you can connect all that with powered internal USB hubs to the motherboard. (the commander pro is not powered externally, so it's not ideal, and it only has 2 ports).

 

[c-attack]

11 hours ago, WITCHBANE said:

I recently build a new system and had issues with 4 Commander XT's running and showing within the software.

This is going to be difficult.  As far as I know, only one user was successful in getting 4 Commander Core/XTs recognized at the same time and it took a lot of maneuvering.  They were also on an Intel board and this will be even more difficult with AMD which sometimes has trouble with single connections.  

 

As mentioned above, these Commander Core/XT controllers were intended to be "1 device/1 controller" set-ups for people with basic 6 RGB fan systems.  Your set-up is not simple.  I don't know if you have return options, but the scheme suggested above it what I would normally recommend.  Using the "dumb" PWM repeater hubs.  The hard part is the RGB.  Normally I would say use the Lighting Node Pro devices (2 channels, small box) but you likely don't have any RGB Lighting Hubs and obtaining a bunch of those would make the LNPro cost as much as the XT.  Additionally, the LNPro will only allow you to put 6 QL on it and not 12 like other lower 5v current fans.  That makes it only marginally better a XT.  

 

So the best way out of this might be to try and tackle the USB 2 issues that prevent the software from detecting the controllers.  AMD boards don't always output the needed voltage on the USB 2 port, so a SATA powered USB hub is almost mandatory.  You may have one already since no board has more than 2 native connections.  However, on some B550 and definitely the newer Z690 motherboards we are seeing issues with this as well on the Com Core/XT.  The most consistent solution has been to use a USB 3->2 conversion cable.  You likely have two USB 3 internal connectors and need one for the front of the case.  You could try using one and connecting it to the powered HUB to see if that helps.  If you have been daisy chaining the XTs to each other along the same USB path using the passthrough, that definitely will not work.  

[WITCHBANE]

On 8/12/2022 at 9:26 PM, LeDoyen said:

It would be better, to avoid detection bugs in icue, to use as few commander units as possible.

Since you use push pulls, that's a ton of fans that will use the same speed. You could group them on powered PWM hubs and only use one PWM output per radiator.

Same for the pumps, they will have to run at the same speed, so they can go on a simple 2 way PWM splitter

Bottom fans, 2 rads, side fans, pumps, back fan, that's 6 PWM outputs. You can drive all that with one commander unit only

What you can't do without is a bunch of Node core lighting controllers, and those don't cause any issues with iCUE, so you could go that route. If you bought your fans in 3 packs, you should already have them actually.

And finally, you can connect all that with powered internal USB hubs to the motherboard. (the commander pro is not powered externally, so it's not ideal, and it only has 2 ports).

 

 

On 8/13/2022 at 8:25 AM, c-attack said:

This is going to be difficult.  As far as I know, only one user was successful in getting 4 Commander Core/XTs recognized at the same time and it took a lot of maneuvering.  They were also on an Intel board and this will be even more difficult with AMD which sometimes has trouble with single connections.  

 

As mentioned above, these Commander Core/XT controllers were intended to be "1 device/1 controller" set-ups for people with basic 6 RGB fan systems.  Your set-up is not simple.  I don't know if you have return options, but the scheme suggested above it what I would normally recommend.  Using the "dumb" PWM repeater hubs.  The hard part is the RGB.  Normally I would say use the Lighting Node Pro devices (2 channels, small box) but you likely don't have any RGB Lighting Hubs and obtaining a bunch of those would make the LNPro cost as much as the XT.  Additionally, the LNPro will only allow you to put 6 QL on it and not 12 like other lower 5v current fans.  That makes it only marginally better a XT.  

 

So the best way out of this might be to try and tackle the USB 2 issues that prevent the software from detecting the controllers.  AMD boards don't always output the needed voltage on the USB 2 port, so a SATA powered USB hub is almost mandatory.  You may have one already since no board has more than 2 native connections.  However, on some B550 and definitely the newer Z690 motherboards we are seeing issues with this as well on the Com Core/XT.  The most consistent solution has been to use a USB 3->2 conversion cable.  You likely have two USB 3 internal connectors and need one for the front of the case.  You could try using one and connecting it to the powered HUB to see if that helps.  If you have been daisy chaining the XTs to each other along the same USB path using the passthrough, that definitely will not work.  

@LeDoyenand @c-attack thank you both for your input and great advice.. I was able to get all 4 XT's to show in iCUE with full functionality. What I did was use (1) USB 2.0 header for (1) NZXT hub, and put (2) XT's on it. I then used the USB 3.0 hub with a splitter, and mimicked the first USB 2.0 header setup. I'm not saying this is the perfect setup, but I may tweak it some more with your suggestions. Only thing left to install is the UV lighting for the coolant. 

Setup:

USB 2.0 Motherboard Header --> Thermaltake Pacific MX2 Ultra CPU water block

USB 2.0 Motherboard Header --> NZXT Hub --> (2) Commander XTs

USB 3.0 Motherboard Header --> 2.0 splitter --> NXT hub --> (2) Commander XTs

 

[LeDoyen]

well if it ain't broke, don't fix it 🙂

You may get annoyed with the commanders reordering themselves randomly in iCUE, so it will be hard to keep track of which one is which, and adjusting fan speed may quickly get on your nerves ^^ but you know how to do if you need to change the setup.

side question, for UV you use near-UV LEDs or cold cathode tubes?

[WITCHBANE]

@LeDoyenI use the Darkside UV strips. 

https://www.mnpctech.com/products/darkside-12-30cm-dimmable-pc-led-strips

I have yet to install them on this build, but I used them for 2 year on my previous build without any issues. I recommend getting the SATA extensions if you go with them. I'll have them set to come on and remain static.

[c-attack]

If you’ve got 4 XTs detected, well done and don’t move them. Only a couple of users have managed it and what you did seems perfectly logical to me.  2 per “channel” seems to be the limiting factor.