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When's Alder Lake C1 comin?


zguy85
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Dell/Alienware is now offering their R13 with Alder Lake Processors.  When is Corsair going to offer Alder Lake Pr9cesssors / Setups. I want to buy a C1 with new hardware.

 

BTW R13 start at around less then $2,000 and they offer a 10% military discount.  Does Corsair offer military discount anybody?

Edited by zguy85
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Thank you for the reply Corsair Mordred appreciate it.  Definitely will be looking forward to a possible C1 Release with the Alder Lake.  I am rocking the OG C1 from 2017 still and love the product and would like to continue my support.  Thanks man.

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  • 1 month later...

I'm also in the market for an Alder Lake system and would prefer Corsair One.  Can anyone at least remark on what time of the year new systems typically come out, if there is any pattern at all?  Would hate to get a Dell if C1 just around the corner, but also learned not to wait on things just speculating on when they might come out.

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I have Corsair One Pro with AMD 5950x. Its CPU performance is reduced to 5900x level so it can fit in the small box. If Corsair is going to put an even hotter CPU, it is important to beef up the cooling. 

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Bumping but also because I feel compelled to say that I have been thinking a lot about and I agree with Vett93.   Corsair you need to SERIOUSLY beef up your cooling.  Downgrading performance of processors that we are paying a premium for just so they will run stable in C1 is unacceptable.  Stop being cheap, because we aren't, and put in better cooling.   Hearing things like downgrading performance of processors in some cases by 15%, makes me feel like Corsair is going the same route as their stock price this past year.  Take care of your customers, they will take care of you.  You go cheap, you will go broke and not last as long as you think you will.

These newer generations of Premium Processors, which is what we pay... a premium,  are running hotter and hotter.  C1 need to have top of the line Premium cooling or what's the point?

Edited by zguy85
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2 hours ago, zguy85 said:

Downgrading performance of processors that we are paying a premium for just so they will run stable in C1 is unacceptable.  Stop being cheap, because we aren't, and put in better cooling.   Hearing things like downgrading performance of processors in some cases by 15%, makes me feel like Corsair is going the same route as their stock price this past year.

What are you talking about? Are you saying you think they're underclocking CPUs, or are you saying the cooling needs to improve so that the CPU doesn't thermal throttle itself?

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11 hours ago, Wired said:

What are you talking about? Are you saying you think they're underclocking CPUs, or are you saying the cooling needs to improve so that the CPU doesn't thermal throttle itself?

Wired, your two questions are really two sides of the same coin. The cooling is not adequate for a small box and it looks like Corsair did something to the BIOS to limit the CPU too. If you are a Corsair employee, can you look it up and tell us what Corsair did to the BIOS?

The motherboard of A200 came from ASRock. Corsair modified the BIOS to detune the 5950x so it could fit in a small box without sufficient cooling. If you are not aware of it, try to use Geekbench 5 to do a multicore benchmark and compare to an average 5950x score published on Geekbench website. You will find it is 15% less than an average 5950x. This means your customers paid for 5950x but get 5900x level performance. 

I tested my A200 in the first 30-day return period. So I knew what I was getting into. I hope you don't think I am bashing Corsair. I like my A200 and hope you guys can improve and stay in the computer business. Selling a computer is more than just selling components. 

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See my sig: No, I don't work for Corsair. I've just been on the forum since before Corsair joined it 🙂 Started out as houseofhelp.com.

No, I don't think you're bashing Corsair (and yes, that's allowed within reason). I just lean towards the scientific method. Being on here for 21 years, I've seen tons of people claim this and that without evidence and/or full testing. Effect before cause and all that. Then when they think it through a bit more, their claim/argument doesn't always hold water. Sometimes it does, and that's either because of their logic and/or in spite of it.

 

Scientifically speaking, let's assume 15% drop is accurate (not saying you're wrong, I just don't have one to validate myself, nor have I looked up any reviews on that system). How did the test run? Is there data on the CPU / GPU temps during the run? Is there evidence for/against thermal throttling during the run, or did it run below thermal max for the entire run (or did something other than these scenarios happen)?

I've seen discussions about thermals before, but this is the first explicit BIOS modification I've seen someone mention. Haven't read every post either, so I may have missed something. A BIOS setting could be the answer, but it could still be an unmodified BIOS. For example (and note that I don't know much about BIOS settings), can the temp at which thermal throttling starts be changed? e.g. from say 9x C to 6x C?

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54 minutes ago, Wired said:

See my sig: No, I don't work for Corsair. I've just been on the forum since before Corsair joined it 🙂 Started out as houseofhelp.com.

No, I don't think you're bashing Corsair (and yes, that's allowed within reason). I just lean towards the scientific method. Being on here for 21 years, I've seen tons of people claim this and that without evidence and/or full testing. Effect before cause and all that. Then when they think it through a bit more, their claim/argument doesn't always hold water. Sometimes it does, and that's either because of their logic and/or in spite of it.

 

Scientifically speaking, let's assume 15% drop is accurate (not saying you're wrong, I just don't have one to validate myself, nor have I looked up any reviews on that system). How did the test run? Is there data on the CPU / GPU temps during the run? Is there evidence for/against thermal throttling during the run, or did it run below thermal max for the entire run (or did something other than these scenarios happen)?

I've seen discussions about thermals before, but this is the first explicit BIOS modification I've seen someone mention. Haven't read every post either, so I may have missed something. A BIOS setting could be the answer, but it could still be an unmodified BIOS. For example (and note that I don't know much about BIOS settings), can the temp at which thermal throttling starts be changed? e.g. from say 9x C to 6x C?

I don't know where to find your sig. But you seem to have multiple profiles. 

IMO, one needs to quote his credential before claiming "scientifically peaking". IMO, the minimal requirement to use the term is having a Ph.D. degree from a major school. Otherwise, it is just blow hot air to use the term. 

Before you question my claim, a scientific method is to test it yourself or finding someone who has tested it. I have talked to a few Corsair employees about my claim. None of them disputed that.

 

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10 minutes ago, vett93 said:

I don't know where to find your sig. But you seem to have multiple profiles.

  Do you have signatures turned off? You can check here: https://forum.corsair.com/settings/signature/ . Alternatively if you're on mobile, it looks like they're turned off by default in the back end.

image.png.f66a532c9b001261b2b4ac53722011cd.png

10 minutes ago, vett93 said:

IMO, one needs to quote his credential before claiming "scientifically peaking". IMO, the minimal requirement to use the term is having a Ph.D. degree from a major school. Otherwise, it is just blow hot air to use the term. 

Before you question my claim, a scientific method is to test it yourself or finding someone who has tested it. I have talked to a few Corsair employees about my claim. None of them disputed that.

Fair point, probably the wrong term. I probably should've just started with the assumption part and/or instead mentioned critical thinking. Respectfully, I'd say requiring a PhD to use a phrase like that may be a bit excessive, but to each their own. It's all good!

 

In any case, it comes down to repeatability and trust but verify. I'm only reading about the end result (15% reduction in benchmark results) and don't have data between the beginning and end of the benchmark test(s), so I have questions.

As for not disputing something - did they explicitly verify it, or explicitly comment on it? If you have links that would be greatly appreciated.

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33 minutes ago, Wired said:

  Do you have signatures turned off? You can check here: https://forum.corsair.com/settings/signature/ . Alternatively if you're on mobile, it looks like they're turned off by default in the back end.

image.png.f66a532c9b001261b2b4ac53722011cd.png

Fair point, probably the wrong term. I probably should've just started with the assumption part and/or instead mentioned critical thinking. Respectfully, I'd say requiring a PhD to use a phrase like that may be a bit excessive, but to each their own. It's all good!

 

In any case, it comes down to repeatability and trust but verify. I'm only reading about the end result (15% reduction in benchmark results) and don't have data between the beginning and end of the benchmark test(s), so I have questions.

As for not disputing something - did they explicitly verify it, or explicitly comment on it? If you have links that would be greatly appreciated.

Let me refer you to other test. Tom's Hardware had an article about A200 and the benchmark: Corsair One a200 Review: Liquid-Cooled Ryzen and RTX 3080 | Tom's Hardware (tomshardware.com)

It has a Geekbench 5 CPU benchmark of AMD 5900x and its multicore score is 11,968. An average score for 5900x is 14,053, as published by Geekbench: Processor Benchmarks - Geekbench Browser

As you can see, it is a 15% reduction for 5900x. For 5950x, it is at least 15% reduction, because 5950x generates even more heat. Some of my tests showed 18% reduction. Now you can see the repeatability by another tester. But if you have been around this forum for 20 years, this should not surprise you. Putting a hot CPU in a small box without adequate cooling would definitely require some slow down of the CPU. Wouldn't you agree? 🙂

My communication with Corsair employees was in private PMs. It is probably not a good idea to publish them in a public forum. Basically, I told them the same thing and they acted that they did not know anything about it. They did not come back to me with their findings afterwards. I was not surprised by that either. 

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Another test by TechRadar: Corsair One a200 review | TechRadar

Their Geekbench 5 multicore score is similar to Tom's Hardware's finding. On an A200 with AMD 5900x, TechRadar's Geekbench 5 multicore score is slightly less: 11,762.

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Posted (edited)

Very Very interesting Vett!  the 5900x in an a200 scoring 11,762 as per article on TechRadar lol is actually on par (actually little lower) then a Ryzen 9 3900XT in multicore.  WOW!  These numbers presented just confirms, atleast the PC used by TechRadar, is underperforming for what we are paying for, regardless of what the cause is.  Disappointing. 

Nice digging Vett.  Corsair... lets fix this.

Edited by zguy85
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On 1/1/2022 at 12:37 AM, zguy85 said:

Very Very interesting Vett!  the 5900x in an a200 scoring 11,762 as per article on TechRadar lol is actually on par (actually little lower) then a Ryzen 9 3900XT in multicore.  WOW!  These numbers presented just confirms, atleast the PC used by TechRadar, is underperforming for what we are paying for, regardless of what the cause is.  Disappointing. 

...

__Both__ Tech Radar and Tom's Hardware have similar findings: 15% multicore performance drop for 5900x. My own tests are inline with these too.

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you are buying a form factor rather than performance unfortunately, at least that's how i'd put it ^^

alder lake + nvidia 3000 series or AMD 6000, they would have to figure out how to cram 720mm worth of radiators in a SFF case to keep the stock performance.. 

Anytime you go small form factor you have to give up some cooling.. and ultimately, performance.

For Corsair to fix it, they would have to make an XXL C1 with bigger rads, more fans.. or just aircooled with tons of ventilation.

That small case is ultimately not really suited for high power components (it's starting to be old actually)

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Agreed, LeDoyen. That's why I decided to keep it after extended testing. (Thanks for the suggestions when I first got it.)

What I am trying to say is that this small box is overloaded already with the current generation of high performance CPUs. If Corsair wants to put even hotter CPUs, more cooling will be needed. 

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Posted (edited)

Would just make sense then to put a cheaper processor in that could run 100% and overall cost less money.  I get your paying for form factor, but then you don't need the "hottest" thing available.  You could literally get a I5 12600K for $200 less that takes much less power and will be on par/exceed the 5900 with little tuning for much cheaper and tune to smash on the 5900 with same temps.   But that won't sell as well as labeling at a 5900 cause that's all people will see,  but you sure will pay the extra cause its what's "hot".

Good find Vett.  Wouldn't mind if they make the case slightly larger to get a more acceptable radiator in there so they don't have to de-tune without notice. 

Edited by zguy85
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On 1/4/2022 at 3:38 AM, zguy85 said:

Would just make sense then to put a cheaper processor in that could run 100% and overall cost less money.  I get your paying for form factor, but then you don't need the "hottest" thing available.  You could literally get a I5 12600K for $200 less that takes much less power and will be on par/exceed the 5900 with little tuning for much cheaper and tune to smash on the 5900 with same temps.   But that won't sell as well as labeling at a 5900 cause that's all people will see,  but you sure will pay the extra cause its what's "hot".

Good find Vett.  Wouldn't mind if they make the case slightly larger to get a more acceptable radiator in there so they don't have to de-tune without notice. 

From the reviews I've seen, an i5 12600K would make a great gaming rig with much better thermals.  For gaming, multi-core doesn't particularly matter, and the CPU impact is so secondary to GPU impact, that a cooler, non-throttling CPU probably would provide near equal real-world performance.  I'd love to see a more reasonable, gaming-focused build.  That's really the only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger now.  (That and the fact that my i160 is still performing like a champ.)  

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The 3080Ti in my A200 works very well. Its CUDA score is even higher than the 3090 score on Geekbench. Worth the wait, zguy!

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Well just pulled the trigger.... yea that price is hefty... but I'll figure it out financially lol.   I'm really excited now.  Wow it's really happening, my Wife is gonna be a little pissed off, buttt we'll work through it, between this a new house and new car yaaaa.  Well just sold our house and made good bank so why not eh?

I'm sure I'll have many of posts coming regarding performance / product quality.  Lets GO!

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