Corsair ML140 RGB Pro Fan can RPM lower 400 cause damage?

[Derenei]

Hello,

 

I just bought an additional ML140 RGB Pro Fan for my h115i RGB Platinum Cooler. (One of the two included fans was defective). After hooking up the new fan to the pump I noticed that the fan was running pretty low (~280 RPM).

 

The LEDs are now working flawlessly put the new fan omitted a strange clicking noise at < 400 RPM. Trying to force the fan at higher rpms works for a short period but results in a reset of the fans in the icue software.

 

After some googleing I found out, that the h115i ships with special versions of ml140 RGB Pro fans. (Rpm up to 2000). Tomorrow I will connect the new fan to my mainboard.

 

My Question: is it harmful for the ml140 RGB Pro fans when you run them at rpms lower than 400 rpm? (Mine was running for 1 - 2 hours at 290 rpms) Has anyone experienced similar issues when hooking up new fans to the aio pump?

Edited January 11, 2021 by Derenei

[c-attack]

I am surprised you get it run 280 rpm. 400 is the official spec minimum, but I would not be surprised if a given fan could get to 360 rpm. That is a bit more. The Platinum controller is always in 12v PWM mode, so I am not sure what this suggests about the fan. Typically I would expect it to max out around 1100-1140 rpm when faced with radiator resistance.

 

The Platinum has 2 independent fan channels, so what one fan does should not affect the other. The fans can be set to run two different fan programs, although frankly there isn't much reason to run 140mm fans past 1200 rpm on a 280mm unless you working on some very high 250W+ loads from a 12 or 16+ core CPU.

 

 

The LEDs are now working flawlessly put the new fan omitted a strange clicking noise at < 400 RPM. Trying to force the fan at higher rpms works for a short period but results in a reset of the fans in the icui software.

 

Frankly the clicking is enough for me to send it back. The puzzling part is why this would cause CUE to crash. I would contact Corsair Support and also look at your return options for the fan. Corsair Support should also have a replacement high speed ML140 RGB. Apparently there are some on the Ebay market as well.

[Derenei]

Thanks for your reply!

 

I'm planing to use my Noctua NF-A14 PWM Fans for the Radiator. Can I connect these fans without problems to the pump or should I connect them to the main board?

[c-attack]

Brown & Latte NF-A14s will work.

 

Hearing a few issues with Chromax A14 and Industrial 2000 rpm A14, specific to the XT.

 

Industrial PPC 3000 PWM 12v tend to be problematic for most of the controllers.

[Citizen Crazed]

I just bought an additional ML140 RGB Pro Fan for my h115i RGB Platinum Cooler. (One of the two included fans was defective).

 

 

It's not impossible for a lemon to leave the factory, but the ML fan design is extremely robust and reliable, so this sounds surprising. What, exactly, was the 'defect' with the included fan - and are you absolutely certain that fan was defective? Did you rule out the problem being inside the fan controller, for example, by swapping the fan channels over so "channel 1" on the pump is connected to "fan 2"?

 

Second, and most fundamental question: On the face of it, your AIO is under warranty. Is there a reason why you bought a new fan, rather than simply go through the supplier or Corsair's warranty/RMA process? That would appear to be the best option for you if it's available.

 

 

After hooking up the new fan to the pump I noticed that the fan was running pretty low (~280 RPM).

 

That's not surprising. As you've already discovered, the 'retail' ML140's have a maximum speed of 1200rpm vs 2000 for the special ones supplied with the cooler. This also suggests that for any given PWM value, the retail unit will rotate slower - 60% or so of the speed of the AIO spec one. So if you were seeing 280rpm on the retail, and had both fans on the same control curve, were you seeing around 450-480rpm on the other one? That would count as 'normal'.

 

If you want to stick with this configuration, and we assume the pump/fan controller is working properly, and want the speeds of the two fans to roughly equal out, you'll have to define at least one custom fan curve. Albeit that you will obviously only be able to equalise them up to the retail unit's maximum speed.

 

 

The LEDs are now working flawlessly put the new fan omitted a strange clicking noise at < 400 RPM. Trying to force the fan at higher rpms works for a short period but results in a reset of the fans in the icue software.

 

 

It sounds like something more fundamental than a defective fan is wrong here. Assuming the fan controller in the AIO is working as it should, there's no obvious reason why the fan should 'click' at any speed. Let alone "reset the fans" inside the iCue application. From a simple probability point of view, the likelihood of you having one defective ML fan is very low. The odds on you having two of them are very low indeed. Low enough to suspect something else is going on here.

 

Have you ruled out any other problems? Is the 'click' regular in timing - once per fan revolution or something like that? Or does it sound completely random in frequency?

 

Are you certain there's nothing physically impinging on the fan - for example, a cable lying close enough that it can touch the blades? Have you also tried spinning it over with your fingers? If so does it click at all? Or feel smooth all round its rotation or 'notchy' in any way?

 

Again, have you tried swapping over the connectors on the AIO (i.e. so "fan 1" is powered by "fan 2'"'s channel to see if the 'defects' swap over to the other unit (and therefore suggest there's a problem inside the AIO's fan controller)? Or have you tried - either via a motherboard header or the AIO, setting temporary custom fan control profiles that force the fans (including the 'defective' onee) to run at a range of speeds to establish what exactly is working properly and what isn't?

 

 

My Question: is it harmful for the ml140 RGB Pro fans when you run them at rpms lower than 400 rpm? (Mine was running for 1 - 2 hours at 290 rpms)

 

Bottom line, no, it's not harmful. The 'special' ML140 Pro RGB fans supplied with your cooler have a minimum, self-startable operating speed of around 150-160rpm - which corresponds to 18% PWM value on a custom fan curve in iCue. There is no longevity or reliability issue posed to the fans by running them them as slow as you want - although obviously they don't move much air so there's little practical value in running them much below 400-odd rpm or so. There's certainly no reason why they should make odd noises at any rotation speed.

 

 

Has anyone experienced similar issues when hooking up new fans to the aio pump?

 

 

Can't help think that you have complicated the issue by tackling the original 'defective fan' in the wrong way - and are potentially complicating things further via spending even more money on Noctua units. As good as the Austrian stuff is, the ML140s supplied with your unit work great, are very robust and reliable, have the performance necessary to cool pretty much anything you could stick under the pump. And have the lighting you presumably paid extra for that you will lose with the Noctuas.

 

Aside from anything else, connecting the rad fans to the mainboard as you are proposing will mean you lose the AIO (and iCue)'s ability to automatically manage the fan speed in response to coolant temperature, so your attempt to solve one problem potentially causes another.

 

The best way forward for you here would first appear to be to be absolutely certain the AIO and fan controller is capable of running correctly with its proper fans. At least then you can have confidence the controller is working correctly if you want to swap in any third party fans in future. Aside from anything else, if the original ML140 really is defective, Corsair owe you a new one, with the correct speed rating, for free.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Citizen Crazed

[Derenei]

Thanks for your huge input :)

 

It's not impossible for a lemon to leave the factory, but the ML fan design is extremely robust and reliable, so this sounds surprising. What, exactly, was the 'defect' with the included fan - and are you absolutely certain that fan was defective? Did you rule out the problem being inside the fan controller, for example, by swapping the fan channels over so "channel 1" on the pump is connected to "fan 2"?

 

Second, and most fundamental question: On the face of it, your AIO is under warranty. Is there a reason why you bought a new fan, rather than simply go through the supplier or Corsair's warranty/RMA process? That would appear to be the best option for you if it's available.

 

 

The leds do not work on one of the two included fans. I opened a support ticket with corsair, but they expected me to send the whole aio back. I did not want that. I purchased the aio in december 2019 and had no further issues (except the defective leds of course). Could corsair just sent me a new ml140 2000 rpm fan, or is this not possible?

 

 

 

 

 

That's not surprising. As you've already discovered, the 'retail' ML140's have a maximum speed of 1200rpm vs 2000 for the special ones supplied with the cooler. This also suggests that for any given PWM value, the retail unit will rotate slower - 60% or so of the speed of the AIO spec one. So if you were seeing 280rpm on the retail, and had both fans on the same control curve, were you seeing around 450-480rpm on the other one? That would count as 'normal'.

 

If you want to stick with this configuration, and we assume the pump/fan controller is working properly, and want the speeds of the two fans to roughly equal out, you'll have to define at least one custom fan curve. Albeit that you will obviously only be able to equalise them up to the retail unit's maximum speed.

 

That makes a lot of sense.

 

 

It sounds like something more fundamental than a defective fan is wrong here. Assuming the fan controller in the AIO is working as it should, there's no obvious reason why the fan should 'click' at any speed. Let alone "reset the fans" inside the iCue application. From a simple probability point of view, the likelihood of you having one defective ML fan is very low. The odds on you having two of them are very low indeed. Low enough to suspect something else is going on here.

 

Have you ruled out any other problems? Is the 'click' regular in timing - once per fan revolution or something like that? Or does it sound completely random in frequency?

 

Are you certain there's nothing physically impinging on the fan - for example, a cable lying close enough that it can touch the blades? Have you also tried spinning it over with your fingers? If so does it click at all? Or feel smooth all round its rotation or 'notchy' in any way?

 

Again, have you tried swapping over the connectors on the AIO (i.e. so "fan 1" is powered by "fan 2'"'s channel to see if the 'defects' swap over to the other unit (and therefore suggest there's a problem inside the AIO's fan controller)? Or have you tried - either via a motherboard header or the AIO, setting temporary custom fan control profiles that force the fans (including the 'defective' onee) to run at a range of speeds to establish what exactly is working properly and what isn't?

 

Like i said, i am pretty sure that the aio fan controller is ok. (i have been using the cooler for over an year now). Unfortunately i was not able to read your reply in time and have already swapped the aftermarket ml140 for an noctua nf-a14. (both connected to the pump) At lower rpms both fans now show pretty similar rpm levels (picture below). At higher rpm they tend to show a higher delta value between both fans. (60 - 80 rpm).

 

The reason for that must be because of the different max rpm levels of both fans, right?

 

ML140 = 2000 rpm

NF-A14 = 1500 rpm

 

Unfortunately the icue software still crashes periodically (fans rpm, pump rpm and leds get reset). Can ICUE handle fans with different rpm ratings or am i overlooking something here? Those resets are not happening when the icue software is closed.

 

 

Bottom line, no, it's not harmful. The 'special' ML140 Pro RGB fans supplied with your cooler have a minimum, self-startable operating speed of around 150-160rpm - which corresponds to 18% PWM value on a custom fan curve in iCue. There is no longevity or reliability issue posed to the fans by running them them as slow as you want - although obviously they don't move much air so there's little practical value in running them much below 400-odd rpm or so. There's certainly no reason why they should make odd noises at any rotation speed.

 

Thats a relief. For now i am planning to use the working ml140 that was included and the new noctua fan. as both have somewhat similar rpms. I already have three a14s in my rig, so it does not even look that bad ;)

 

I will update this thread later, when i get the chance to connect the aftermarket ml140 to my mainboard. i will try different pwm values and will keep an eye out for the clicking noise.

Edited January 13, 2021 by Derenei

[Senosse]

As an aside to the rest of the thread, here is the correct replacement fan https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Accessories-%7C-Parts/ML140-RGB-Magnetic-Levitation-Fan-Replacement/p/CW-8960066 or https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Accessories-%7C-Parts/PC-Components/Cooling/Hydro-Series-H115i-RGB-Platinum-Replacement-Fan%2C-140mm%2C-2000RPM/p/CW-8960058

[Citizen Crazed]

The leds do not work on one of the two included fans. I opened a support ticket with corsair, but they expected me to send the whole aio back. I did not want that. I purchased the aio in december 2019 and had no further issues (except the defective leds of course). Could corsair just sent me a new ml140 2000 rpm fan, or is this not possible?

 

Hey sorry for delay seeing this. Were the LEDs defective from when the unit was new - or did they fail after some time in use?

 

Either way, it seems reasonable to expect Corsair to be able to test and exchange one fan rather than expect you to break the system down and ship the *entire* AIO. Aside from anything, there's less shipping cost - and carbon - sending a single ML140 than an entire packaged cooler.

 

Any Corsair employees reading this have any input??

 

Also good to see that the proper fans are now available as spare for purchase (on the US site at least). Although a bit confuse that they haven't been given a unique name...