hquest Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Hi all. Yesterday i got a pair of XMS4000 mems, but some strange things happened. About my hardware, Asus P4P800 Deluxe, P4 2.4C and 1Gb TWINX-4000Pro. More of my hardware can be found at http://web.onda.com.br/hquest/hw.html First, i can't use it properly as 250MHz FSB (1:1 divider settings). Windows boots up, but 3D applications (read DX games) get bogus traces on each screen element.. A quick brief gathered with Everest can be found in http://web.onda.com.br/hquest/Report.htm (i'm at work now, can't change bios settings). Then, i backed up to 200MHz FSB (1:1 divider) and tried to find the lowest CAS ratio, and reached 2.5-2-3-5-4 (using 2.75V). Then, i've tried to use back Asus EasyOverclocking, and get again up to 30%, but unstable. SuperPI get me errors at first 1Mb test pass. I could even reach 45% overclocking (up to 3.5GHz) using CPU-Z ClockGenerator, but again, unstable. Got up to 286.5MHz FSB (190MHz memories IIRC), with 3:2 divider. When used my old Hyper-X 3200 kit, i can use my machine as 3.12GHz rock stable -- used near 2 years that way. I found while Google'ing last night some reports about BIOS version too, and backed up BIOS to latest "recommended" for better over -- 1016 -- instead of the latest one 1019 i was using before. So, i need some advice about what to do now to get a nice overclocking and full system stability as i got with my old memoy kit. More info on demand. Thanks for any help :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee RAM GUY Posted March 22, 2005 Corsair Employee Share Posted March 22, 2005 Please follow the link in my signature and set the dim voltage to 2.85 Volts and set the bios like the settings listed in XMS Qualifications and Testing or What are the correct timings for my modules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hquest Posted March 22, 2005 Author Share Posted March 22, 2005 Please follow the link in my signature and set the dim voltage to 2.85 Volts and set the bios like the settings listed in XMS Qualifications and Testing or What are the correct timings for my modules? Thank you for your reply. I'll change VDIMM to 2.85V and see what happens. [EDITED] Just raised VDIMM to 2.85V, same glitches as posted below. No good news :( [/EDITED] About timings: these modules are, by default 3-4-4-8, and actually my BIOS setup is just like one specified at your signature link (http://www.houseofhelp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33521): Testing parameters for TWINX4000: TWINX1024-4000 Data Sheet TWINX512-4000 Data Sheet Motherboard make and model: Asus P4C800/-E and/or Abit IC7/-G. Each pair is tested and packaged together using the following settings: CPU External Frequency: Manually set to 250MHz DRAM Clock: Manually set to 1:1 or 400MHz SDRAM CAS Latency: 3T SDRAM RAS to CAS Delay (tRCD): 4T SDRAM Row Precharge (tRP): 4T SDRAM Active to Precharge Delay (tRAS): 8T SDRAM Bank Interleave: 4 Bank SDRAM VDIMM: 2.75 All other settings are motherboard defaults. Maximum recommended VDIMM: 2.9 [EDITED] Another screen with (near) all interesting values: http://web.onda.com.br/hquest/full_cpu_info.PNG (69k) [/EDITED] This is a screenshot of how 3D games looks buggy at above settings: http://web.onda.com.br/hquest/visual_bug.PNG (1.35Mb) Thanks again for your help and time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee RAM GUY Posted March 23, 2005 Corsair Employee Share Posted March 23, 2005 Please test the modules one at a time and lets see if we can isolate one of the modules failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hquest Posted March 23, 2005 Author Share Posted March 23, 2005 Please test the modules one at a time and lets see if we can isolate one of the modules failing. Thanks again for your reply. Looks like the TWIN mems don't like to work for me as Dual Channel. At my first tests, both worked alone (512Mb at a time) and as Single Channel. So, before i even think of RMA'ing this mem (i wait 50+ days to get them :eek:, don't wanna wait all that time again :confused:), please, help me to extinguish all possibilities: - Does DualChannel uses lots more of my PSU? (I didn't notice much demand at all using a multimeter while measuring 3/5/12V lines) - Does TWINX uses lots more PSU than HyperX kits? (I didn't noticed that too) - Does TWINX heats much more than other kits? (I didn't noted much diff from my HyperX kit. It's still being "touchable" w/out any harm, but i can feel them warm. Unfortunately, can't have a decent/real measure) Those are the 3 items that came in my mind at first, generally they are the root of many troubles. But as i "pre-tested" them, didn't think these could be the troublemakers. Any other recomendation/idea/tip? [EDITED] I left machine entire night with mems as Dual Channel, doing some random calculations while recompiling GNOME/KDE from scratch and some Seti@Home on background too. No failures at all. So, i'm starting to think it's not memory fault after all. So, my troubles could be related by power shortage, and i am thinking in buy a new power supply. Using this nifty power supply calculator, i have an insane 512W max. So, i will keep my generic one for extra disks (non-bootable) and devices (like my DDS-2 and 10/100 switch "oncase") and get a new decent ATX v2.0 compliant power supply to main disk, CPU and VGA. These are the ones i can get: - OCZ ModStream 520W - OCZ PowerStream 520W - Enermax 550W - EG651P-VE(FMA) - SevenTeam 520W - ST-522HLP - Thermaltake 560W - W0023 + Active PFC Any recomendation over them? I really like casemodding (that's why i've bought Pro memory kits instead of another high-performance mem), but my PSU will be completely hidden from mod because of case disposal. [/EDITED] Thanks again for your time and help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hquest Posted March 23, 2005 Author Share Posted March 23, 2005 Hi all again :) I'm just aware of similar troubles from another memory maker, but same trouble. You can check here his troubles, and its just like mine. So, i'm starting to give up about PSU limitations. Looks like Asus or i865PE don't like PC4000 memories. Thanks again for all help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee RAM GUY Posted March 23, 2005 Corsair Employee Share Posted March 23, 2005 Well it looks like you are heading to the right conclusions, but there are a few things you can do to verify what you have found so far. First the power supply. This is one of the most important pieces of hardware in your system. Power Supplies will as they reach the peak allow more noise to filter through and can make your system unstable or display erratic behavior at times of high demand. So for sure a new PSU would be worth the money especially if you are an over clocker. In addition, as you over clock you will need to add a bit more power to what’s listed because of Ohms Law, so yes the PSU can have a big impact on over all system performance and stability. I personally prefer PC Power and Cooling as they are the only PSU made in the USA and have had great luck with them. Ennermax and Sparkle have also worked good for me.. We have indeed seen where the Springdale chipset would at time not perform as well as Canterwood chipset had in our lab and one of the reasons we have used Canterwood chipset MB’s on our production line to Validate our modules. However, Springdale MB’s do have a price advantage and most have had no issues other maybe not able to reach the high O.C. that we have seen with Canterwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hquest Posted March 23, 2005 Author Share Posted March 23, 2005 So for sure a new PSU would be worth the money especially if you are an over clocker. Agreed on that. I'll pick a new PSU ASAP, but as we're going to a holiday tomorrow, PSU only on Tuesday :(: I personally prefer PC Power and Cooling as they are the only PSU made in the USA and have had great luck with them. Ennermax and Sparkle have also worked good for me.. Never knew about PC Power and Cooling, but will take a look on them. Thank you. We have indeed seen where the Springdale chipset would at time not perform as well as Canterwood chipset had in our lab and one of the reasons we have used Canterwood chipset MB’s on our production line to Validate our modules. However, Springdale MB’s do have a price advantage and most have had no issues other maybe not able to reach the high O.C. that we have seen with Canterwood Just another question: Don't you think this is a bit strange, another similar trouble with other manufacturer? And with overall system running "slower" with a PC4000 then PC3200 memories, wasn't supposed to use a bit less power? (just to remember: my Dual Channel PC3200 works like a charm @ 260MHz/3:2 divider, both 2D/3D) Can you or someone try such a similar test too? Running a i865/875 mobo with some PC4000 dual channel memories and a 3D video card, and post results? memtest, prime95, superpi, sandra and all "cpu/memory" combo tests works, but 3D fails. [EDITED] Found some people claiming a design flaw in Asus boards -- both P4P800 and P4C800. I personally have noted that before but never really cared about. The situation is: I mark VCORE as 1.65V (example only). When i use full CPU power, VCORE drops 0.1V. This post explains a bit more of that flaw. They claim to fix VCORE drop with an MB Mod (pics inside). Didn't have done that yet. I don't know if will do it anyways. [/EDITED] Thanks all again for help and spent time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee RAM GUY Posted March 23, 2005 Corsair Employee Share Posted March 23, 2005 This post explains a bit more of that flaw. They claim to fix VCORE drop with an MB Mod (pics inside). The situation is: I mark VCORE as 1.65V (example only). When i use full CPU power, VCORE drops 0.1V. Well with regards to the links you provided, if you read the Intel platform design papers I think that will shed some insight into this issue, and according to Intel this is to be expected to some extent, as the CPU VCORE is internally regulated in the CPU. So I would not put too much in to those claims. Just another question: Don't you think this is a bit strange, another similar trouble with other manufacturer? And with overall system running "slower" with a PC4000 then PC3200 memories, wasn't supposed to use a bit less power? (just to remember: my Dual Channel PC3200 works like a charm @ 260MHz/3:2 divider, both 2D/3D) Not really, Springdale chipset was an after thought from the Canterwood design. In other words Springdale chipset is a speed bin down from Canterwood. And are essentially the same chipset, just some of the features have been disabled in the DIE. Or when the DIE is produced some of the DIE will be destined for Springdale and some will be Canterwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hquest Posted March 23, 2005 Author Share Posted March 23, 2005 Hi all again. Real bad news: just got an Thermaltake PurePower 560W w/ all bells and whistles. Unplugged all boards and devices i have, got online only what i need to run Windows. No lucky at all. :(: I still getting image artifacts when running 3D apps, all at default settings (timings, clock, fsb) and 2.85V VDIMM. Also, i just tested running this mem as 200FSB. I got visual artifacts too. Way less than when @250, but still have them :bigeyes: I'll try to find something more at Internet, but will put back these memories in pack until i can get a new motherboard. As i can't do/wanna a complete upgrade now, gonna move to a "less-expensive" P4C800, as anyone who got PC4000 memories are doing. [EDITED] Any suggestion of a nice i875 board, with similar features as P4C800 Deluxe, which works fully with these mems? [EDITED] [RE-EDITED] I'm really don't understand anymore wtf is happening... http://web.onda.com.br/hquest/wth.PNG (179k) Memtest give me ***** loads of errors Aquamark give me ***** loads of artifacts SuperPI give me NO SINGLE ERROR 3DMark 2001 give me NO SINGLE ERROR 3DMark 2003 shuts down in middle of tests. No visual artifacts. FarCry have no artifacts, but freezed after 15mins playing Chronnicles of Riddick have some visual failures and freezed after 30+mins playing I'm re-downloading Sandra too. Will test prolly tomorrow morning before go work. [/RE-EDITED] Thanks all for your time and help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee RAM GUY Posted March 24, 2005 Corsair Employee Share Posted March 24, 2005 What bios version are you using? The latest I can find is Ver. 1.020 Beta 02. You might try that one and see if that helps. But I would reset the bios after you flash and load setup defaults and set all of the settings again. Also you might check with ASUS and see if there is some known issue they might be able to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hquest Posted March 24, 2005 Author Share Posted March 24, 2005 What bios version are you using? The latest I can find is Ver. 1.020 Beta 02. You might try that one and see if that helps. But I would reset the bios after you flash and load setup defaults and set all of the settings again. Also you might check with ASUS and see if there is some known issue they might be able to fix. Thank you for your reply. I have not tried no BIOS higher than last "official" one (1019). At this moment, i'm running with original one recovered from install CD (1009). By the way, i have added back my HyperX kit together with TWINX one. Running all 2Gb as DDR400, i have found no flaws until now. I'll try to get my old overclock with TWINX on system too, and see if i get troubles. And, for sure, i'll flash my BIOS too, then do some tests, as follows: flash, see if all boots up, power off, clear CMOS (via MB jumper), power on, configure general settings (no memory at all), memtest, 2d/3d tests, configure memory timings, memtest, 2d/3d tests, try some overclock, memtest, 2d/3d tests. About ASUS. I have tried in the past some help with ASUS people. Unfortunately, never get any answer from them :( But will try again. A later question: I've just saw in my MB manual the following info: ASUS p4p800 Deluxe motherboard user guide, p2-11 2.5.2 Memory configurations 7. Double-sided DDR DIMMs with X16 (databus width = 16-bit) memory chips are not supported due to chipset limitation. TWINX kits uses no X16 memories, right? Thank you again for your time and help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee RAM GUY Posted March 25, 2005 Corsair Employee Share Posted March 25, 2005 No we do not use by 16 IC's on any of our XMS modules. Also have you checked that you have all of the latest drivers for both Video and chipset and the latest DirectX installed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hquest Posted March 25, 2005 Author Share Posted March 25, 2005 No we do not use by 16 IC's on any of our XMS modules. Also have you checked that you have all of the latest drivers for both Video and chipset and the latest DirectX installed? Thank you for your reply. Yeah, all my drivers are up-to-dated. WinXP SP2. I was playing HL2 for some hours with both TWINX and HyperX modules together, no overclock -- got timings 2.5-3-3-6, VDIMM 2.75V, 3:2 divider (200MHz FSB, 133MHz mem :confused: ) Could not get better values because of (i think) too high timings difference from memories. Thank you for your time and help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hquest Posted March 25, 2005 Author Share Posted March 25, 2005 Hi all. What are the higher VDIMM these TWINX modules can get? As i've already asked for a P4C800-E Deluxe -- as everybody else did --, i'm about to massacrate this board with lots of VMODs. Done already the VCORE one, gonna do VDIMM soon, but before i wanna know the max i can reach without kill them. Maybe my memos are just "out of gas" and i can save US$200... ( BTW, just discovered my HyperX kit is BH-5 based :sunglasse maybe that's why i can't do with TWINX the same as i was doing until now...) Thanks all for your time and help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wired Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 They are warrantied up to, but not over, 2.9 volts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hquest Posted March 25, 2005 Author Share Posted March 25, 2005 They are warrantied up to, but not over, 2.9 volts. Thank you for your reply. Well, this just vanishes my last speculation. Together with your info, i should add that i'm running without any glitch again with TWINX as 1:1 divider, 250MHz FSB/Memory, 2.75V VDIMM, SPD timings. But as a single channel. If i put them as dual channel, troubles are all way around. So, it *must* be a chipset limitation. Way bad, btw. Thanks all again for time and help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAG66 Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Have you disabled PAT during your testing? I had the same problem with a P4P800 and XMS3500. With the PAT-BIOS-HACK (the same as real PAT for P4C800) only 205 MHz FSB without graphic artifacts. Without PAT 217+ MHz FSB and there are no graphic artifacts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee RAM GUY Posted March 30, 2005 Corsair Employee Share Posted March 30, 2005 I have read back through your posts, and have you tried or tested the modules in another system? Also from what you have posted, I would suspect the CPU or maybe a noisy PSU and testing the modules in another system will help isolate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hquest Posted April 7, 2005 Author Share Posted April 7, 2005 Hello all. Sorry for the lack of info these last days. Have you disabled PAT during your testing? I had the same problem with a P4P800 and XMS3500. With the PAT-BIOS-HACK (the same as real PAT for P4C800) only 205 MHz FSB without graphic artifacts. Without PAT 217+ MHz FSB and there are no graphic artifacts. Yes, i have tried with and without PAT. Unfortunately, i've never heard about your quoted "PAT-BIOS-HACK", can you please point me to more information about it? I have read back through your posts, and have you tried or tested the modules in another system? Also from what you have posted, I would suspect the CPU or maybe a noisy PSU and testing the modules in another system will help isolate that. I went into a lan party this last weekend and did a similar test as you asked, even not reading your post until now. Plugged back my DDR400 HyperX kit, got my friend's kit (HyperX too, exactly the same memories, combined total = 2Gb) and plugged my TWINX on his A64-3200+. Both machines worked like a charm near 12h of non-stop, hardcore gaming (phew!). I can't test my CPU in another system, as everyone i knew is an "AMD fanboy" (no offenses to anyone). At my work, we only got standard Intel desktops unable to provide most of features i'm wanting/needing (like dual channel). The day i got this kit, i've plugged it onto a P4S800 w/ a P4A 2.0GHz. Worked so beautiful at 200MHz, but single channel. My power supply is a PurePower 560W from ThermalTake, but this was happening with my old, generic ones. I got in touch with an ASUS technician, he told me he was starting to simulate my machine to try to help me. Last time he e-mailed me was Apr 3. In this meantime, however, i've asked a new ABIT IC7-G motherboard. If ASUS tech couldn't solve this issue, my solution (i hope so) is on my way. Thanks all again for your valuable help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee RAM GUY Posted April 7, 2005 Corsair Employee Share Posted April 7, 2005 Please let me know how you make out, and I have no problem replacing your modules if you want to try that, but what you have posted would suggest some other issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hquest Posted April 23, 2005 Author Share Posted April 23, 2005 Hi all. Yesterday i've received my new IC7-G. I'm running my TWINX memories as 250FSB 1:1 divider as it was supposed to run (dunno why yet, but BIOS insists in detect them as 3-3-3-8), no visual glitches, no stability troubles, all is running fine now. BTW, Asus technician did not contacted me anymore even i sending him daily e-Mails asking about my trouble (maybe he got pissed of my mails or was i marked as a spammer to him? :sigh!:). Way bad they don't care about their customers, but that's past now. So, as anyone who got troubles with these combo DDR-500 and i865 chipset, i changed my MoBo to one with a i875 chipset and life is running in peace again. Thanks all for your help, hope this thread could be useful to more people in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee RAM GUY Posted April 25, 2005 Corsair Employee Share Posted April 25, 2005 Thanks for letting us know, and there has been more than one report this issue with I865 based MB's and changing to I875 had solved their problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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