Problems with 250FSB on TwinX 1024 4000PT

[Shamblerock]

I am quite dissapointed with my TwinX 1024 4000PT memory that I purchased from Corsair. I have bought a Asus A8v Deluxe MoBo and have it running very stable at 250FSB with an Athlon 64 3000+. I paid a premium (compared to OCZ) for this dual bank matched memeory to also be able to reap the benefits of running 250FSB @ DDR400. Not to be no matter how I set up the Bios. So I am now running @DDR333. The best the Mobo/Memory will allow me is a 204 FSB stable for the memory frequency. The processor is running @ 2250 as opposed to stock of 1800. If I don't over clock Memory runs @DDR 400 automatically.

 

 

Here is my set up for this overclock:

 

FSB 250Mhz

AGP/PCI locked at 66/33

Memory voltage 2.7/2.8 volts

Cas 3

TRCD 4

Tras 8

TRP 4

Mem Lock: Limit DDR 333 (Auto also defaults to this)

Hyper Transport multiplier 4X (800)

Processor: voltage 1.5

Multiplier: 9

 

I am dissapointed indeed. I could have saved myself over $100 if I got regular OCZ memeory that could run @ 200fsb.

 

Mem Lock: Limit DDR 333

 

RAM GUY: Please advise if you can.

[RAM GUY]

First thing, XMS4000 was made for Intel platform, please see XMS Qualification and Testing and look up your modules part# to see the make and model of MB we use to validate them and the suggested settings.

This MB was made after the release of these modules and some have had mixed success with over clocking this MB. And actually running the settings you have set will run the memory at 208.33 MHz they way the chipset does the divider. But I would try and set these settings to see if you can get a bit better performance.

Memory voltage 2.8 volts

Cass 3

TRCD 3

TRAS 8

TRP 3

Then please test with http://www.memtest.org to make sure its stable. In addition, what core of CPU do you have, if you have an older 130 NM core CPU that may be what’s holding you back. And what is the currant bios version you have installed? And have you tried to reset the bios with the jumper. And what do you have the Hyper Transport buss set to?

[Shamblerock]

Well, I saw your compatibility list and some of the modules that would suit my purposes are much more expensive than wht I bought. Question of economics I guess. Don't get me wrong, the bandwidth is there for example when I run Sandra at auto speed (DDR400) I get 5100 as a score and when I overclock to 250 I get a score of 5800 but CPU Z indicates that the HTT @250 and the memory frequency is approx. 205. So I do see improved memory results but when I force it to be DDR400 @ 250FSB I can't come up and if I do, Prime95 craps out almost immediately.

Does this make sense to you? What I would like to be able to do is to see a memory frequency of 250 @ DDR400, which is what I expected. Is there some magic setting or architecture of the Athlon 64 that I am missing? Because the Athlon 64 keep dividing the memory as you increase the FSB in the Bios. BTW, I have the latest Bios .

 

By the way I have the 90nm core not the 130nm core.

 

Please advise if you have the chance as I would greatly appreciate it.

 

Thanks for your continued support.

[Wired]

What I would like to be able to do is to see a memory frequency of 250 @ DDR400

 

That is impossible, setting memory to 2 different speeds at the same time. Are you trying to set the memory to 250 Mhz, but keep the FSB @ 200 Mhz?

[Shamblerock]

That is impossible, setting memory to 2 different speeds at the same time. Are you trying to set the memory to 250 Mhz, but keep the FSB @ 200 Mhz?

 

No it is possible with the Athlon 64 becuase the memory controller is om the chip. As you raise FSB in Bios the CPU automatically increases the divider. For example, I am set @ 263 FSB in the bios and the processor is running @ 2366Mhz instead of 1800 which is its regular frequency. This makes sense because the normal multiplier is 9 so 9 X 263 =2367. However, the memory frequency under CPU-Z shows 215 because in auto mode it knocks the divider from 9 to 11. Therefore 2367 / 11 = 215. However, If I force the memory multiplier to be 9 i.e. DDR400, then I can't boot up, even at 232 fsb.

 

My Sandra score are approx. 5.1gb while running regular fsb 200 and default ddr400. But at 263 and memory running @ 333, my score is 6.1gb. So the throughput has increased but I am seeking more. something to the effect of approx 10-20% more throughput by forcing the memory to be DDR400 and running synchronous (divider will remain as 9). I paid for Corsair modules thatare supposed to run @ 250fsb, but under the Athlon 64 design, for some reason it can't and I am dissapointed for sure. I just hope the Ram Guy can advise me of what settings to use because I am usinfg 3-4-4-8 as per SPD.

[leeghoofd]

Did you put 2T to enabled ? It could also be the CPU holding you back, did you try any increase in CPU VCore ? Is Q&C disabled ? , I have had 3 3500 Cpu's, 2 Newcastle cores and one Winnie now, the winnie gives me the 2400Mhz I wanted( 10x240), the first 3500 was rock steady at 2300 (10x230) but any higher than that and it was lockup time. The 2nd was even worse :( 2250 and it gave me weird stuff , lockups, reboots, BSOD.

 

I would first try to set the cpu to normal non OC to see if the ram works perfectly and the board detects it.

 

Then start to slowly increase the FSB and see where it stops you could loosen the timings then but I think you will hit a brick wall at around 240Mhz with 3-4-4-8. You did well by reducing the HTT to 4x Did you update to Bios 1009 ? I would go to http://www.abxzone.com and look in the AMD64 Via section there , they have some master Oc'ers there with your Motherboard.

 

GL

[Wired]

No it is possible with the Athlon 64 becuase the memory controller is om the chip. As you raise FSB in Bios the CPU automatically increases the divider. For example, I am set @ 263 FSB in the bios and the processor is running @ 2366Mhz instead of 1800 which is its regular frequency. This makes sense because the normal multiplier is 9 so 9 X 263 =2367. However, the memory frequency under CPU-Z shows 215 because in auto mode it knocks the divider from 9 to 11. Therefore 2367 / 11 = 215. However, If I force the memory multiplier to be 9 i.e. DDR400, then I can't boot up, even at 232 fsb.

 

My Sandra score are approx. 5.1gb while running regular fsb 200 and default ddr400. But at 263 and memory running @ 333, my score is 6.1gb. So the throughput has increased but I am seeking more. something to the effect of approx 10-20% more throughput by forcing the memory to be DDR400 and running synchronous (divider will remain as 9). I paid for Corsair modules thatare supposed to run @ 250fsb, but under the Athlon 64 design, for some reason it can't and I am dissapointed for sure. I just hope the Ram Guy can advise me of what settings to use because I am usinfg 3-4-4-8 as per SPD.

 

 

Read my post again. You just described what my guess was. What I said was impossible is impossible. It's like going 60 MPH and yet going 30 MPH at the same time.

[Shamblerock]

I have it set up as "auto" for 2T. I also think it masy bbe the controller in the CPU that's may possibly be the culprit here. Under normal conditions yes, it recognizes the memory properly and all is perfect as expected. I do have the latest released bios. From what I have read, the maximum theoretical output on the athlon 64 is 6.4GB. I am achieving 6.1GB and no matter what kind of configuration I have, I can't get over that 6.4GB threshhold. You see, I can force it to be DDR400 with a FSb of about 233 but my throughput on the memory is almost the same as if a FSB 266 with memory running (after dividing) @ 333. But the difference is that allowing it to divide gives me the ability to increase the FSB in the BIOS to 266 and squeeze more out of the CPU. Right now I've dropped the FSB in the BIOS to 250 and running Prime 95 as I am writing this response. The divider is 11 as oppposed to 9 and therefore my memory is running @ 204. I still am trying to figure out how to get this memory to run @ DDR400 @ 250FSB. The cpu has no problem handling the 250FSB because I've tested it to death. The problem might be in the relationship between the internal controller and the memory.

 

Leeghoofed, I'm goin to look into your link as see if there is any tips. Are you running 1:1 (DDR 400) @ 240 or 250FSB now?

[leeghoofd]

Yes it's DDR 400 set up in the Abit AV8 bios, Bandwith in Sisoft Sandra is about 6,2. Had to drop to 10 multiplier instead of the 11 stock. Also had to loosen timings and test 3 cpu's to gain this speed on stock air cooling. The peep at Abxzone wil definatly give you an answer, look for Sierra and Gocchin they are crazy Oc'ers. Gl keep me posted what gives.

[Shamblerock]

Read my post again. You just described what my guess was. What I said was impossible is impossible. It's like going 60 MPH and yet going 30 MPH at the same time.

 

Then perhaps the defintion of FSB in the Bios is not necessarily as you and I have know before. CPUZ calls it HTT instead of FSB when looking at the CPU info . There is something else going on that no one seems to be able to explain and I hope there is a simple setting(s) I am overlooking. If the CPU has a limit of throughput and will not shoot out more than 6.4GB then there is no need to buy special/quality ram then, is ther? So then why doesn't Corsair and the like state this on their site or packaging material? Buyer be aware I guess?

[Wired]

What I would like to be able to do is to see a memory frequency of 250 @ DDR400

 

That is impossible, setting memory to 2 different speeds at the same time. Are you trying to set the memory to 250 Mhz, but keep the FSB @ 200 Mhz?

 

The afforementioned quote is what is not possible. Rephrasing it:

"What I would like to be able to do is to see a memory frequency of 250 @ a memory frequency of 200"

[leeghoofd]

Read this Wired then it will all become clear. Glad to see you around helping so many peeps you guys are awesome :laughing:

http://www.insanetek.com/index.php?page=overclocka64

[Wired]

Thanks for the link and the props!

 

Not talking about the A64 architecture, or about CPUs in general. The STATEMENT itself is impossible. It's like saying on 9/1/2004 at 9:00 AM EST I ran the 1-mile in 4 minutes, and then saying on 9/1/2004 at 9:00 AM EST I ran the 1-mile in 6 minutes. Impossible to have one thing do 2 things at the same time.

[leeghoofd]

Thanks for the link and the props!

 

U R welcome, I just think he means that with the DDR400 he means the 1:1 divider, but I just experiment with it lol and see how far it goes, happy about my setup :laughing:

 

DDR 400 (1:1) Divider

Ram set at 240Mhz or 480DDR

CPU multiplier at 10X (2400Mhz)

HTT at 4X (960)

Ram set at 2.5-3-3-6 at 2.8 volts

[Wired]

DDR 400 (1:1) Divider

Ram set at 240Mhz

 

That's the problem though. When you say that, you're really saying:

 

DDR 400 (1:1) Divider || Ram set DDR480

in otherwords:

200 Mhz (1:1) Divider || Ram set at 240Mhz

 

Can't state the original state of the memory, as it is in that state no more. The manipulation of the state of the thing changes that by which it is defined, and as such does no longer hold the same label as it once did. Now, if you were to say:

 

3200XL running @ 480 Mhz, then that's ok, as 3200XL is the name of the product as well as a denotation of the speed / timings. While the latter changes, the former has not.

 

Dude, I feel like a hippy in psych class all of a sudden... :eek:

 

Yeah.... I get INTERESTING when I have a cold... :)

[Shamblerock]

That's the problem though. When you say that, you're really saying:

 

DDR 400 (1:1) Divider || Ram set DDR480

in otherwords:

200 Mhz (1:1) Divider || Ram set at 240Mhz

 

Can't state the original state of the memory, as it is in that state no more. The manipulation of the state of the thing changes that by which it is defined, and as such does no longer hold the same label as it once did. Now, if you were to say:

 

3200XL running @ 480 Mhz, then that's ok, as 3200XL is the name of the product as well as a denotation of the speed / timings. While the latter changes, the former has not.

 

Dude, I feel like a hippy in psych class all of a sudden... :eek:

 

Yeah.... I get INTERESTING when I have a cold... :)

 

 

Wired, I wish you had a Athlon 64 to test out for yourself and could have a better understanding of my frustration. At the end of the day, It seems that the CPU can work at a much higher frequency then the memory controller can. Unfortunately, both get increased at the same time. It just seems that if I push the memory throughput beyong 6.1 GB I'll get instability through running Prime 95. So I have to overclock and use the divider for the memory to lower the throughput to achieve max CPU and memery bandwidth. Running more that 232 1:1 gets a bit dicey and running at 250 1:1 is a no-go. However, running @250 with a higher divider (i.e. ddr333 = FSB 204) allows me to get as much throughput as running 232 1:1 on the memory (DDR400 FSB 232) but allows me to reap more CPU power because I am running 2.38Ghz @263 vs 2.08Ghz @ 232 = an 14 % increase in CPU speed.

 

If I could get the memory to run 250 1:1 stable, I would forego the extra 13 FSB I can push the processor and would consider that a fair trade off.

 

But running 232 for the sake of running stable @ 1:1 (DDR 400) seems to be uinsufficent and not as high results as running 263 while memory running 5:3 (DDR333).

 

It a shame really. It make me want to go out and get some cheap ram that can run stable @ 204FSB, which is just about any brand. Therefore, I conclude that either the memory is limited/not suited for AMD64/memory controller hits its peak and will not run beyong 232 stable. So why buy the extra quality ram when you don't use it to maximize CPU and memory performance? Its late and I'm starting to babble, sorry about that.

[Wired]

That's what we do best around here, babble! :)

 

Got an A8V / 3400+ in the corner actually. Just no time to muck with it. 99% of the time I'm on my laptop writing papers for class (I HATE WRITING PAPERS!!!!!!!). I understand the whole HTT / FSB thing, but that's aside from what I was saying.