Custom Performance Curves and Zero RPM on Corsair Liquid CPU Coolers

[Zaaphjod]

I also cannot get Zero RPM to work on my H115i Pro RGB, even if I just turned the system on, everything is COLD and system is idling at just a few percent, and all temperatures are lower than 24degrees.. the fans are still turning at 600+ RPM. I can un plug them and nothing happens to any of my temperatures, proving that zero RPM would be valid in this state, yet selecting zero RPM mode does not stop the fans as advertised.

 

I am unable to apply a custom performance curve to the pump on my H115i Pro RGB CPU cooler... I want a custom curve that cranks up the pump when CPU Package temperature reaches a certain point, and this would happen WAY before the pump temperature sensor detected any temperature change.. the idea is to crank everything up at the moment a heavy CPU load is detected. by the time the temperature probe in the pump is able to detect any difference at all, the CPU die has already been very hot for a while... and now the cooling system has to catch up to try to cool it back down. I have been manually changing the pump between balanced and Extreme, but I want it to happen automatically. Balanced never goes up high enough, and extreme is way too fast except during heavy CPU loads...

 

I also would like to program hysteresis into the pump and fan control of the cooler... I don't see any way to do this. Hysteresis would speed up the pump and fans once the temperature went above a certain point, but would leave them there until they cooled off to a point LOWER than the point they turned on at.. for example, I would have my fans and pump go to 100% if the package temperature went above 60degrees, and stay there until the temperature dropped below 36degrees. Is there some way to keep fans running until well lower than the point they turned on at? Using the package temperature does help keep the fans running a little longer as it ends up waiting for the package temperature to drop, but it still does not use hysteresis the way real temperature controls work (i.e. AC in your house... it turns on at one temperature, then cools it way down then shuts off at a lower temperature than it came on at). I want to leave the fans and pump running all the way until the system returns to idle and temperature return to the idle level temperatures... instead of turning them up and down and up and down which I find very annoying. If Hysteresis is no possible is there some way I can program a time delay before allowing the RPMs to reduce.. to make sure I am really done with the heavy processing... because if I'm not done, they are just going to have to come on again anyway.. I would rather them just stay on.

 

I also cannot select 0RPM in a custom performance profile for the fans on the CPU cooler, I can on just regular fans, but not the ones on the CPU cooler, the minimum is 20% I can see enforcing a minimum on the pump, but not the fans, but I can't use a customer performance curve at all on the pump anyway. I know I can plug fans into the fan controller... but I already have two fan controllers maxed out, and I should be able to program the CPU cooler to go to 0 RPM if I want to.

 

There doesn't seem to be a way to get any of this to work with just a cooling profile, but is there a way to make a Marco or something that will kick everything up to extreme when the CPU package temperature goes above a certain point, and keep them there until after it returns to a point lower than it came on at? It seems like everyone would want it to behave this way, especially if your system is overclocked... Mine is not, but the I7-8086 runs hot with factory settings

[DevBiker]

First, are you using the stock fans with the cooler?

 

Second, you really shouldn't tie your radiator fans to your CPU temperature; they should be tied to the coolant temperature. With this, hysteresis is not necessary. Really, once they understand the physics of it, everyone should want their fans to be tied to the coolant temperature rather than the CPU temperature, especially if the system is overclocked, regardless of the CPU.

[Zaaphjod]

Yes, stock fans.

 

I see how changing the fans based on the coolant temp alone would be logical... but why can't I make my own profile for the pump? I did some more tinkering with this and I find that yes basing everything off the coolant temperature works the way I want it to... but I also identified a bug that was causing me to think I needed to do something else...

 

 

Fan2 does not use Quiet mode correctly and it also prevents the pump from using quiet mode correctly.

 

 

Let me explain how I arrived at this:

 

 

If I have the fans both running fast, and put the pump in quiet mode, then the pump is acting the way I want it to... it slows down when at idle, and speeds way up when needed... with a maximum speed of 2172RPM.. If I turn Fan1 to quiet, than under heavy load, Fan1 also remains running fairly fast.. BUT if I turn Fan2 on Quiet, the pump instantly goes way down.. and Fan1 also goes way down as well... For some reason Fan2 being set to Quiet prevents the pump from following the profile it is set to and also fan2 itself does not follow the quiet profile... which with fan1 does follow. I just tried it again and got the same result...

 

 

Set Fan1 and Fan2 to Extreme, set pump on Quiet...

 

at idle, pump is 1080 RPM, Fans are 1380RPM

 

Start stress test

pump jumps up to 2130RPM, fans are still 1380

 

turn Fan 1 to Quiet...

Everything remains the same, stress test is still running, pump is 2130, both fans are 1380

put fan 1 back on Extreme,

Everything remains the same... stress test still running

 

put fan 2 on Quiet

 

Stress test still running.... Temp suddenly starts rising, Pump dropped back to 1080, Fan1 is 1380, fan 2 is 780

 

I don't understand why the pump is dependent on fan2 running at any particular speed.. the fans should be based on the coolant temperature, and not in control of how fast the pump runs..

 

so to see how quiet mode works, I did this:

 

I put Fan1 on Quiet, Fan2 on Balanced, and the Pump on Quiet, now at idle, Fan1 is 720RPM, Fan2 is 1270RPM, and the pump is 1080 RPM, when I run my heavy processor task....

 

within 3 seconds, both fans go up to 1380 RPM, and the pump goes up to 2130RPM

 

when the task ends Fan1 drops to 760RPM Fan2 stays 1380 RPM, and the pump drops to 1080RPM...

 

to me this is how quiet mode on Fan1 and on the pump are intended to run... but if I reverse my settings, or do ANYTHING with Quiet on Fan2, then the pump NEVER runs faster then 1110RPM, even if things are getting excessively hot to where I am forced to stop the experiment and put everything on extreme and stop the processor task. Fan2 never runs faster than 720 RPM and the pump never runs faster than 1110 RPM, no matter how hot the coolant gets... this happens any time the pump and Fan2 are both on Quiet.

[Zaaphjod]

Oh great, I just went in and changed my custom fan profile to use coolant temperature to see if it would work with the pump in quiet mode the way it was working before, and now quiet mode on the pump is not ever working the way it was before.. even if I repeat my procedure I did in my pervious post, quiet mode never makes the pump run faster... I don't know why I have inconsistent results. I can't even look at the pre-set profiles so I don't know what they are supposed to do.

[DevBiker]

First, I do recommend that you use a custom fan curve. That should resolve at least some of the issues. And it should definitely be based on coolant temperature.

 

Second, for the pump speed, it's supposed to be fixed. That said, your analysis is interesting and certainly not the intended behavior; this will likely require investigation from Corsair's development team.

 

Additionally, I would recommend that you use at least Balanced for the pump speed and not Quiet. There's actually a pretty noticeable performance difference between Quiet and Balanced on the pump speed for the Pro series coolers - but not much, if any, difference between Balanced and Extreme. From a noise perspective, I don't notice Balanced any more than Quiet.

[Zaaphjod]

My custom fan curve based on coolant temperature seems to work fine. I still wish my custom fan profile could go to 0 RPM like the case fans can. and zero rpm mode still never works for me.

 

The noise level difference between quiet and balanced on the pump is very little, so I have no problem leaving it on balanced. I'll do some more tested to see if I really need the pump running at the extreme speeds.

[Zaaphjod]

These are NOT the stock fans I have on this cooler, they are LL140RGB fans. I never hooked up the RBG because I ran out of fan ports and I never got around to getting another fan controller hub.. I saw the Corsair Logo and no LEDs so I thought they were stock.. but I just found the stock fans still in the box, so I plugged one in and Zero RPM DOES work with the Stock fan, but it does NOT work with LL140RGB fans.

 

The Corsair advertising makes it seem like the cooler would work interchangeably with the LL series fans, it shows nothing but LED fans in the 3 fan documentation on the 3 fan version and even the 280mm version shows the 3 fan version with LED fans at the bottom of the page... so, yep I'm sold on RGB fans, and also want zero RPM.

 

I don't understand it it's sending out a signal for zero how can any fan be turning? strange

[DevBiker]

These are NOT the stock fans I have on this cooler, they are LL140RGB fans. I never hooked up the RBG because I ran out of fan ports and I never got around to getting another fan controller hub.. I saw the Corsair Logo and no LEDs so I thought they were stock.. but I just found the stock fans still in the box, so I plugged one in and Zero RPM DOES work with the Stock fan, but it does NOT work with LL140RGB fans.

 

The Corsair advertising makes it seem like the cooler would work interchangeably with the LL series fans, it shows nothing but LED fans in the 3 fan documentation on the 3 fan version and even the 280mm version shows the 3 fan version with LED fans at the bottom of the page... so, yep I'm sold on RGB fans, and also want zero RPM.

 

I don't understand it it's sending out a signal for zero how can any fan be turning? strange

 

Aha! The mystery is solved!!

 

The stock fans that go with the cooler stop at a very low (something like 10%) PWM signal. This is different from other PWM fans where they will spin at a minimum level as long as they have power.

 

Which is why I asked if you were using the stock fans ... I would not expect zero RPM mode to work with a non-stock fan. Of any type, from any maker.

[c-attack]

It's not entirely clear how and why the zero RPM mode works with the cooler's original ML140 "Quiet gray" fans (or ML120-Quiet for the other two models), but Dev is correct and you must use those for that feature. However, before you go ripping the LL140s off and put those back on, you should be aware there are some clear limitations to the Zero RPM mode. It will only work up to a coolant temperature of 35C. At that point, the pump and fans will come on like a freight train. 35C coolant temp is a very easy mark to reach in Summer time with no fan speed. You could hit it easily doing nothing more than word processing or web browsing. In a cold/cool room, it would have slightly more utility. The second problem is the Zero RPM mode will need to be toggled on/off before use and cannot be worked into a custom fan curve. So, no 0% fan speed up XX temperature, then a gradual step up in speed. It's OFF-OFF-OFF-FULL BLAST.

 

For the reasons above, I generally recommend most people stick with their own custom fan curves that can be set to extended low levels. The pump or fans will not trigger on at 35C or any other, unless you direct it do so. Additionally, in terms of cooling there is a definite difference between 0 rpm and a very low 300-400 rpm. Just like the slightest breeze feels wonderful on a hot day, at least with a minimal fan speed you get some heat dissipation rather than simple radiation. Depending on your radiator location, using zero rpm mode may not be desirable at all. The 460/570X with the H150i in front may have no intake air at all when this mode is engaged. Finally, not all noise is equal in terms of irritation. Most people are accustomed to the diffuse sound of a fan. Things like pump hum and HDD clicks usually rank higher up on the annoyance scale. Killing all your fan speed may reveal some uglier noise underneath. Every set-up is unique, but something to be aware of when planning.

 

I can see how you are kind of stuck right now. You want zero rpm, but would have to go back to stock fans. You want RGB, but that requires keeping the LL. The LL do not have quite as low a minimum speed as you would like. You will probably need to compromise somewhere. The ML140-RGB can run lower than the LL, but the look is not exactly the same. My HD140s are very quiet at 500 rpm and I can't hear them at 3ft in a relatively open case, but I don't know if I would toss the LL aside for that. I suppose the obvious final option would be to dump all the RGB stuff and get the quietest and lowest running case fans possible. I am not sure how you rank your priorities.

 

*Pump speeds are fixed for the three modes on the PRO coolers. No dynamic adjustable mode. The gen 6 pump is capable of doing this, but I don't know if that is something that can be resolved through a firmware update or not. For the time being, you can certainly use Quiet mode on the desktop. The 1100 rpm pump speed will cost you a few degrees coolant temp at extended load. Most people find a happy place on "balanced" that is still unnoticed, but with no performance loss. You likely do not need to use the Extreme pump mode for anything except CPU renders or other full blast, long duration operation. You will hear the pump at 3000 rpm. Since you have to toggle the pump setting each time (unless you create iCUE profiles for "Quiet desktop", "Play", "Render" etc.), I usually advise most people to leave it on balanced. As mentioned, you could create sound level profiles rather than the traditional "application" based profiles.

[Zaaphjod]

Thank you for the explanation. I think I'll stick with the LL fans and my custom fan curve and not worry about zero RPM.

 

I am very interested in the Gen 6 pump you mentioned, is this available yet, and if so which models use it? I find I still need to turn it to extreme when heavy processor activity is going on, sometimes its only for a few seconds, and it's ok with balanced, but other times it I can have the processor at near 100% for an hour and I defiantly notice a big improvement in extreme. I really like the RGB pump and have it set to change color based on temperature, but if I had to pick one or the other, I would rather it change speeds on demand.

[c-attack]

The Pro coolers do have the Asetek 6th generation pump. In some other brands, it is dynamic and programmable. If you hit a certain coolant temp (35C in zero mode, 40C with fan presets) the pump will kick up to maximum, so it is capable. Corsair has never discussed why they chose this path, but there could be a very legitimate basis. Certainly one possibility is a pump that constantly changes speed will have lower expected longevity than one set to a constant speed. It also prevents users who napped through science from doing silly things, like setting the pump to zero rpm.

[Zaaphjod]

I can see preventing zero rpm on the pump, but I would think a pump running 90% of the time in quiet mode and 10% of the time in extreme mode would last a lot longer than a pump running 100% of the time in extreme mode.

 

I wanted to stick with Corsair for the entire system, and use iCue for everything, but I really wish I could make it only go to extreme mode when it was really needed.

[c-attack]

I can see preventing zero rpm on the pump, but I would think a pump running 90% of the time in quiet mode and 10% of the time in extreme mode would last a lot longer than a pump running 100% of the time in extreme mode.

 

That's probably true, at least from a logical 1 revolution = wear perspective. Still, they usually measure these things in terms of hours of use. What I really meant was a programmable pump that someone sets like a fan curve, changing its speed every degree or multiple times per minute. I do not know how that would affect longevity. My first one certainly didn't last very long, although I believe it was an electrical failure rather than a mechanical one. The options are not perfect, but sticking with one brand from a control perspective is certainly something to be wary of. A lot of these "full monitoring" app packages are incompatible with each other. That is definitely something to look at before buying.

[Zaaphjod]

It certainly complicates things having a lot of different control packages.

 

I'm using a Corsair Obsidian 1000D case with two systems installed, both water cooled, the main one with an H115i Pro and the mini ITX with an H100i Pro... because any air cooler I put on it would block my pcie slots on the main motherboard... But I haven't put the glass sides on yet, because I don't have room on my desk to swing them open to work on it. I'm wondering if I will even hear the one pump in extreme mode with the glass sides on. If not then maybe I'll leave the pump on Extreme and be done with it... so the real question is:

 

Does running the pump in extreme mode 24/7 really affect its life expectancy in any way that really matters?

[c-attack]

I don’t think so. The standard is hours in use rather than revolutions. It’s hard to shake the simple logic of more revolutions equals more wear, but the fact is people don’t show up here saying my cooler has been running great for years, but I feel like the pump is _______ (slowing down, getting louder, making unusual noises). Every once in a while, but most people with problems have some kind of component failure (lighting, electric, physical water flow). Those things are not affected by pump speed, but rather the individual parts or manufacturing.

[Zaaphjod]

Now I have a new idea... My radiator is horizontal, with the LL series fans pushing air up from underneath... but now I'm thinking of hooking up the LL fans to a commander pro where I can program them the way I want to, AND put the stock fans on the top of the radiator pulling air up through the radiator, plug those into the pump and set those to zero rpm. The description of those staying off until the coolant reaches 35 degrees then coming on full power would be just what I would want for the fans on the pull side. I was pleasantly surprised that there were actually enough screws included for push-pull configuration.

 

I've been running with the pump in extreme mode all day and if I don't need to worry about life expectancy, then I'll be happy with it like this. What is the warranty on these pro coolers? I looked through all the paperwork that came with it and the "warranty guide" states the warranty period will vary by specific product as identified in your user documentation... so I looked all through the manual and I did not see anything about the warranty period

[DevBiker]

Warranty is 5 years.

 

And yes, it's great that they include enough screws for push/pull - I was very happy with that as well as my H115i PRO is also push/pull. It's a great way to get better performance with lower fan speeds.

 

The LL fans will have a minimum speed of about 650-700 RPM up to about 30%. The ML fans will go lower.

[Zaaphjod]

I have this working... but the stock fans connected to the pump in zero rpm mode don't come on until 40 degrees, I really wish it was more like 35 degrees.. they also only came on at 390RPM so there is some kind of curve.. well maybe not a curve, I can't get past 40 degrees because the extra airflow from the fans makes is oscillate between 39.6 and 40

[DevBiker]

Well, you can always do a custom fan curve.

 

That said, it's not a bad thing that your cooler isn't going (much) over 40C. Keep in mind that your coolant temperature is your baseline CPU temperature so the warmer the coolant, the warmer the CPU.

[Zaaphjod]

Yes, I can do a custom fan curve, but then I'm back to the custom fan curve not allowing zero RPM even though my idea of zero RPM would have the fans kicking in much earlier than the pre-set zero RPM.

 

Can I put two commander pro fan controllers on the same system? I can get the fan curve I want with the commander pro, and it does let me start at zero rpm, and zero rpm on the commander pro works with my LL series fans too. Is there any reason I might not want to control all the cooler fans with that? I did a quick test and quit iCue, and my fans do still follow the fan profile I had, even if something caused iCue to stop running I would still have fan control.

[c-attack]

I have this working... but the stock fans connected to the pump in zero rpm mode don't come on until 40 degrees, I really wish it was more like 35 degrees.. they also only came on at 390RPM so there is some kind of curve.. well maybe not a curve, I can't get past 40 degrees because the extra airflow from the fans makes is oscillate between 39.6 and 40

 

There seems to be some discrepancies in user reported experiences with this. It could be for the normal reasons, but also changes may been made in the last two packages or the firmware update, none of which were documented. It seems a bit more functional now.

 

If you are getting into push pull on the radiator, it seems counterproductive to use zero mode one one side. You are creating resistance, although probably a trivial amount. People double up on the radiator to try and force more air through than a single pair (more performance) or to try and get adequate performance at really low speeds. I am not sure what the noise difference is between 600 + 300 and 600 + 0 rpm, but the turning on and off would alert me and crossing the trigger temp threshold repeatedly is probably a fact of life in Summer when using this. You’ll have to decide what works for you.

[Zaaphjod]

Yes, I tried turning off one set of fans, and indeed the other set would need to constantly come on and go off to keep the coolant at the temperature I would like it to be at idle (28) and I really do need some kind of fan to exhaust hot air out of the case anyway and it seems the upper top fans would be the best place to remove hot air. I live in Florida and run the A/C pretty much all year, so the ambient temperature is fairly constant.

 

 

Right now I have the upper set at 20% all the time, and they increase starting at 27 degrees, and the lower set at 0% but kicking in at 29 degrees. so the upper fans run constantly and the lower ones just sit there, but as soon as there is any load at all, the lower set kicks in and by the time the coolant hits 30 degrees they are all going full blast, and even under the prime95 torture test My coolant temperature never goes above 30 degrees and my CPU package stays right at 65degrees with the highest spike at 70 degrees. when the system goes back to idle, it only takes a minute for all the fans to go back to their idle state. At idle, this method keeps my upper fans running 800 - 900 RPM and they aren't very loud, and maintains my coolant temperature at 28degrees.

 

I'm very pleased with the performance of this and the fan and pump noise is not bad at all, my pump is still in extreme mode.. with a 5 year warranty, I'm not even going to worry about it.

 

 

Just for fun, I put the lower fans on all the time too, their minimum speed seems to be 600rpm.. with the lower fans running, the upper ones slow down to 200 RPM and my coolant temperature drops only 1/2 a degree. If I bring up the upper fans to 600 RPM my idle coolant temperature drops another 1/2 degree. None of this seems to have any effect on the CPU package temperature at all.

[Corsair James]

As a side note, Zero RPM fan mode for a cooler is very different than setting RPM to 0 for a Commander Pro.

 

LL fans cannot support Zero RPM Fan mode with the coolers. But on a commander PRO, you can set LL fans to 0 RPM. The former uses a special feature in the coolers firmware to reduce fan speed but will kick back on if the conditions are met. However, the fan needs to be able to support zero RPM in this mode natively and we've tested this with the stock fans. If I recall as well, all ML fans can support Zero RPM natively. For a commander PRO, we allow users to set 0 RPM through Fixed and Fixed % because the unit is actually cutting all power to that specific fan port. In this case, there is no safety net unlike a cooler and if your system is overheating, the fans will not come back on by themselves.

 

I hope this helps.

[Zaaphjod]

Yes, thank you for the explanation. If I understand correctly Zero Rpm with the stock fans are actually still powering the fans up, but they accept a zero rpm signal, as opposed to only being zero rpm because they have no power anymore.

 

I would use zero rpm mode with the stock fans, but they wait way too long to come on for my system. I wish there was a way I could program the cut-on point of Zero RPM fans. The point they come on now is what I would consider the absolute furthest extreme.. coming on at 40 degrees C. my processor is pegged at 100C when the coolant is 40 degrees, but it's only 70C when the coolant is 30 degrees.

I would be much happier they come on at 28-30 degrees. but coming on at 40 degrees makes zero rpm unusable for my setup.