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Commander Pro and Corsair Link problems


drakhorn
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Hi all.

 

I received my CLCP just recently and immediately ran into problems.

 

First here what does work:

- 2 of the included thermal probes that I've installed + Phobya thermal probe

- EK-Vardar F1-140 fan works

 

What does not work are the EK-Vardar F4-120 ER fans. Here's the ticket #616709 I have made about it:

 

As the title says, I cannot control my EKWB Vardar F4-120 ER fans with my Commander Pro using the Corsair Link software. The fans do not react to any changes in speed when used in a group with a thermal monitor but they also cannot be controlled with a fixed RPM or not even the Max speed option. The fans can only be turned off completely and they can be run at very low speeds. 2/3 of the fans tend to run around 400-500 RPM constantly and 1/3 fans runs around 250 RPM. Frequently the fans might rev up to about 2000 RPM just on their own and come back down to earlier mentioned speeds.

 

Using 3rd party software, it would seem that the Corsair Link software does not recognize the fans correctly as 4-pin PWM fans but rather thinks they are 3-pin voltage fans. Even if so, I don't see why this would be a problem as you advertise Commander pro as able to also control 3-pin voltage fans.

 

I am using version 4.8.2.1 of Corsair Link and my Commander Pro has been updated to firmware version 0.2.136.

 

Here's how it looks using SIV:

https://ibb.co/fjRoWv

Fan #1 is the water pump.

Fans #3-#5 are the 120mm Vardar fans.

Fan#6 is the 140mm Vardar fan.

 

Any help would be appreciated!

 

On a side note, I have experienced several BSOD's after installing the CLCP and I had to remove overclocking from my CPU. This could or could not be related but I would have to research more of it.

 

Also my Corsair Utility Engine has begun to have problems recognizing my Corsair Vengeance K70 RGB keyboard and I've had to re plug the keyboard every time I power on for it to work properly.

 

All these combined and after reading so many problems from others I hardly doubt I would keep the CLCP but I'm giving this thing one week before returning it back to the retailer. I sincerely hope these issues are fixed in a timely manner.

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attachment.php?attachmentid=30962&d=1504452434

 

  1. If you wish me to help then attach the image so I can easily insert it, see http://forum.corsair.com/forums/showthread.php?p=853900 for how to attach a file/screen image to a post.
  2. So the 3 x EK-Vardar F4-120 ER fans are 4-pin PWM and the CLCP firmware detects them as 3-pin voltage?
  3. What about the water pump? Is that 4-pin PWM and can it be controlled?
    attachment.php?attachmentid=30959&stc=1&d=1504449176
     
  4. As you can see SIV is capable of setting all the fans to 4-pin PWM.
  5. I can't guarantee this will be possible after the next firmware update and will PM you how to do this provided you promise not to tell others.
  6. I feel I need to make sure it's sensible for a member to do this and they are aware it may not be possible if Corsair change the firmware.
  7. I feel Corsair should support as I proposed in http://forum.corsair.com/forums/showthread.php?p=908336 and suggest you request them to add this to the CLCP firmware.
  8. Once/if there is firmware that supports this then I suspect there will be a SIV beta within a couple of days and with a bit of luck within a couple of hours.
     
    1. Had I designed or specified the CLCP firmware there would be a per fan register to set the fan detect mode with possible settings of:
      1. auto detect (what the CLCP currently does).
      2. detect if a fan is connected and if so always use 3-pin voltage.
      3. detect if a fan is connected and if so always use 4-pin PWM.
      4. assume a fan is connected and use 3-pin voltage.
      5. assume a fan is connected and use 4-pin PWM.

      [*] A write to the register would force a fan redetect using the mode written.

      [*] This setting would be saved in NVM and so would only need to be setup/written once.

      [*] Ideally the setting would be preserved across firmware updates.

      [*] Register 0x20 (READ_FAN_MASK) would be extended to report the four additional detection possibilities.

      [*] Supporting fan hotplug would be a requirement.

      On a side note, I have experienced several BSOD's after installing the CLCP and I had to remove overclocking from my CPU.

      I suspect a dump file was generated, if so use WINDBG to analyse the dump file/files in C:\Windows\Minidump\ too see which driver caused the BSOD, see http://forum.corsair.com/forums/showthread.php?p=760776.

      810579844_LinkFans.thumb.png.97303690dd7fd27732e57a1024db5d0d.png

Edited by red-ray
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  1. If you wish me to help then attach the image so I can easily insert it, see http://forum.corsair.com/forums/showthread.php?p=853900 for how to attach a file/screen image to a post.
  2. So the 3 x EK-Vardar F4-120 ER fans are 4-pin PWM and the CLCP firmware detects them as 3-pin voltage?
  3. What about the water pump? Is that 4-pin PWM and can it be controlled?
  4. As you can see SIV is capable of setting all the fans to 4-pin PWM.
  5. I can't guarantee this will be possible after the next firmware update and will PM you how to do this provided you promise not to tell others.
  6. I feel I need to make sure it's sensible for a member to do this and they are aware it may not be possible if Corsair change the firmware.
  7. I feel Corsair should support as I proposed in http://forum.corsair.com/forums/showthread.php?p=908336 and suggest you request them to add this to the CLCP firmware.
  8. Once/if there is firmware that supports this then I suspect there will be a SIV beta within a couple of days and with a bit of luck within a couple of hours.

 

  1. attachment.php?attachmentid=30962&stc=1&d=1504452434
  2. Yes
  3. The pump is EK-XTOP Revo D5 PWM. It draws power from a molex and has a 4 pin pwm cable for controlling it. Yes the CLCP recognizes it correctly and controls it to some extent as in it does fluctuate constantly even on fixed rpm. attachment.php?attachmentid=30963&stc=1&d=1504452691

Please, any advice on how to fix this using SIV would be appreciated. I'm still not sure I will stick with the CLCP as I have other issues to resolve too. You have my word I won't pass on information confided to me.

1393814166_LINKFANS.thumb.PNG.8010f9c3b8014a37abf5cf8f3719b780.PNG

Pump.PNG.68e8e00d28fe0404dfded295bbd5f7e9.PNG

Edited by drakhorn
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  1. The pump is EK-XTOP Revo D5 PWM. It draws power from a molex and has a 4 pin pwm cable for controlling it. Yes the CLCP recognizes it correctly and controls it to some extent as in it does fluctuate constantly even on fixed rpm.

  1. If you have both CL4 + SIV controlling it then I would expect this.
  2. What happens if you just use SIV to control it?
  3. Once you select 4-pin then the blobs should change colour within a few seconds, do they?
  4. It's possible the pump speed may vary less when PWM mode is used for all the fans as a constant +12 volts will be used for all the fans rather than the voltage changing.

Edited by red-ray
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Thank you so much for the help with SIV.

 

After I managed to change the 120mm vardar fans to 4-pin PWM in SIV the fans became controllable in Link. So far they have been behaving as intended but they did dip to 0 RPM once when I made changes to the water pump settings.

 

Ï wonder could I control the fans through SIV completely and uninstall the Corsair Link all together? This just in case if the Link ends up being root of the other problems mentioned in the original post.

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Ï wonder could I control the fans through SIV completely and uninstall the Corsair Link all together?

 

I am pleased to hear SIV helped and yes, see the SIV User Guide. Have a read of http://forum.corsair.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137428 to see what other members who use SIV have said.

 

I sincerely hope these issues are fixed in a timely manner.

40. When there is an issue with SIV this is typically addressed with a SIV Beta release within a few days. Some CL issues have not been addressed after 28 months.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=30833&d=1503819593
Edited by red-ray
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  1. If you have both CL4 + SIV controlling it then I would expect this.
  2. What happens if you just use SIV to control it?
  3. Once you select 4-pin then the blobs should change colour within a few seconds, do they?
  4. It's possible the pump speed may vary less when PWM mode is used for all the fans as a constant +12 volts will be used for all the fans rather than the voltage changing.

 

  1. I see.
  2. With Link closed and using SIV the pump still fluctuates constantly. With value set to 1000 RPM for all temperatures, the actual speed goes between 800 - 1300 RPM. The average speed is very close to the set value. But actually if I set the pump to a "fixed RPM" either in Link or in SIV the pump stays there.
  3. Yes they do.
  4. With everything now set on PWM mode it still fluctuates when on custom or preset curves.

 

Will continue testing problems with BSOD's and CUE.

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Ok so I have uninstalled Link now and overclocked the CPU back to 5.1GHz.

 

I did have several BSOD's before but only found 2 dumpfiles. From what I understand from them, the crashes were caused by unstable CPU. Most of the BSOD's occured during startup of windows apps. I noticed that the CUE hanged up when loading but that was fixed when I uninstalled Link. Also CUE now recognizes the K70 keyboard again by itself.

 

I'm not saying Corsair Link caused the BSOD's but it seems to me that the problems between Link and CUE caused the other to hang up and my CPU was not stable enough for that.

 

The pump still keeps fluctuating constantly and the 120mm fans drop down to 0 RPM and jump up to full speed every now and then before returning to normal. This does not affect the overall performance of the pc I think but is kinda annoying.

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Further testing and I noticed that when setting the water pump even on any fixed RPM value it would fluctuate but when set on fixed PWM it stays relatively stable.

 

I do believe this is more of an issue with how the pump reports RPM, than it is with CLCP.

 

Is there a way to set a curve for PWM fan speed rather than RPM speeds in custom mode?

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  • Corsair Employees

From the looks of things there are at least two known bugs being discussed here:

 

1. CUE and Link having trouble functioning at the same time. This was a bug introduced in 4.8 and is something we've isolated and, if 4.8.2.1 doesn't fix the issue, an upcoming release will.

 

2. Unstable fan curves. This has been brought up in multiple threads, a bug has been filed, and we're working out solutions. This will likely be fixed in a firmware update in the near future.

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From the looks of things there are at least two known bugs being discussed here:

 

1. CUE and Link having trouble functioning at the same time. This was a bug introduced in 4.8 and is something we've isolated and, if 4.8.2.1 doesn't fix the issue, an upcoming release will.

 

2. Unstable fan curves. This has been brought up in multiple threads, a bug has been filed, and we're working out solutions. This will likely be fixed in a firmware update in the near future.

 

I would add fan type detection problems and set fan type limitations to this list. Being able to set the fan type would kill this bug and add a control feature. Is there any reason not to do this?

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  • Corsair Employees

In the strictest sense I think it's feasible, but I have some reservations. While many, arguably most, users would have no trouble telling the software whether the fan they have connected is DC (3-pin) or PWM (4-pin), some would. I have to account for end users who are going to be less savvy than others.

 

And while I don't mix fan types, I also have the luxury of going down to the lab and being like "hey guys, I need some ML fans." End users who don't would basically need to remember which port they plugged which fan into, and the last thing we want is for someone to have to pop the side panel off.

 

The beauty of SIV, for example, is that it caters very specifically to power users. And that's great and it's good that an alternative exists for end users who want to get that deep into the hardware. But SIV is third-party software while Link is official; ultimately we have to account for a broader user base with a broader range of experience, and part of that means we need automatic fan detection with all of the teething issues that accompany it.

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From the looks of things there are at least two known bugs being discussed here:

 

1. CUE and Link having trouble functioning at the same time. This was a bug introduced in 4.8 and is something we've isolated and, if 4.8.2.1 doesn't fix the issue, an upcoming release will.

 

2. Unstable fan curves. This has been brought up in multiple threads, a bug has been filed, and we're working out solutions. This will likely be fixed in a firmware update in the near future.

 

Correct, not forgetting the original problem of not being able to control the EK Vardar F4-120 ER fans at all with Link.

 

In the strictest sense I think it's feasible, but I have some reservations. While many, arguably most, users would have no trouble telling the software whether the fan they have connected is DC (3-pin) or PWM (4-pin), some would. I have to account for end users who are going to be less savvy than others.

 

And while I don't mix fan types, I also have the luxury of going down to the lab and being like "hey guys, I need some ML fans." End users who don't would basically need to remember which port they plugged which fan into, and the last thing we want is for someone to have to pop the side panel off.

 

The beauty of SIV, for example, is that it caters very specifically to power users. And that's great and it's good that an alternative exists for end users who want to get that deep into the hardware. But SIV is third-party software while Link is official; ultimately we have to account for a broader user base with a broader range of experience, and part of that means we need automatic fan detection with all of the teething issues that accompany it.

 

I understand your reasoning but I really fail to grasp what is the focus group this product was made for. I would argue any PC owner who has even an interest to figure out what Commander Pro is made for is "tech savy" enough to know what kind of fans they have and what they want to accomplish with their system.

 

... and baby, my sidepanels are popping all the time :D

Edited by drakhorn
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In the strictest sense I think it's feasible, but I have some reservations. While many, arguably most, users would have no trouble telling the software whether the fan they have connected is DC (3-pin) or PWM (4-pin), some would. I have to account for end users who are going to be less savvy than others.

 

And while I don't mix fan types, I also have the luxury of going down to the lab and being like "hey guys, I need some ML fans." End users who don't would basically need to remember which port they plugged which fan into, and the last thing we want is for someone to have to pop the side panel off.

 

The beauty of SIV, for example, is that it caters very specifically to power users. And that's great and it's good that an alternative exists for end users who want to get that deep into the hardware. But SIV is third-party software while Link is official; ultimately we have to account for a broader user base with a broader range of experience, and part of that means we need automatic fan detection with all of the teething issues that accompany it.

 

Correct, not forgetting the original problem of not being able to control the EK Vardar F4-120 ER fans at all with Link.

 

 

I understand your reasoning but I really fail to grasp what is the focus group this product was made for. I would argue any PC owner who has even an interest to figure out what Commander Pro is made for is "tech savy" enough to know what kind of fans they have and what they want to accomplish with their system.

 

... and baby, my sidepanels are popping all the time :D

 

First, Dustin - Thank you for your detailed and well considered response. I see your point but have to agree with drakhorn on this one. The CLCP is really not a "plug-n-play" hardware device. People who purchase this have or are about to build their own machine, or want better fan control than what their MOBO provides. They are doing AIO coolers and buying upgraded fans. They are going to know the difference between DC and PWM fans.

 

IMHO this is similar to the debate over whether to allow users to stop their fans (or pump). It's a greater range of control, but it can also get you into trouble. Auto detection, if reliable, is the simplest solution. The ability to "force" the fan type only came up when it became apparent that the CLCP has auto-detect problems with some brands of fans.

 

I do understand Dustin's position, even if I don't agree. What I don't understand is why fan type detection seems to be a problem for the CLCP but not the older CLCM (Commander Mini). Are they totally different designs in that regard? Most higher end motherboards perform auto detection without incident. It does not appear to be that difficult to do reliably.

 

If you can get auto-detect working 100%, then the need to allow manual fan type setting is minimized. Perhaps it could be added under an "Advanced" tab that is only accessible after user acknowledgement of a warning message. SIV is a good example of this. There are some features that are not enabled by default that can only be accessed by enabling certain Qualifiers. In this way, a novice SIV user can avoid getting themselves into trouble.

 

BTW - Its nice to see Corsair reps actively posting on the forum. Can't say I agree with every post but at least people can feel like their problems are being listened to and something is being done to resolve them. I've read some horrible tales about getting run around in circles and/or ignored by Corsair Customer Support. Some post here in desperation. Its probably good for business to not ignore them here too. :o:

Edited by SpeedyV
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Most higher end motherboards perform auto detection without incident.

 

Most if not all ASUS motherboards allow the owner to force 3-pin voltage or 4-pin PWM mode for the fan headers in the BIOS.

 

I often recommend forcing 4-pin PWM mode for the CPU_FAN header so the Corsair H100iV2 get's the constant +12 volts it needs.

 

Given this I find it difficult to understand why this is not possible with the CLCP and some enlightenment would be good.

Edited by red-ray
force 4-pin PWM mode for the CPU_FAN header
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  • Corsair Employees

I hear you guys loud and clear and your logic is sound. So I'll tell you what I'm gonna do.

 

Even though I'm the manager for the Corsair Link software, I can't unilaterally make these decisions. What I CAN do is propose the option to the other product managers, the ones affected, and get their buy in.

 

Out of curiosity, would there be any other "power user" features you'd want to see implemented?

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Update.

 

On thursday I received a reply to my ticket.

 

It reads as follows:

Hello Drakhorn

The commander mini is compatible just with Corsair's product, actually it's designed and built to control just Corsair fans.

Best regards

Ismael H

 

That was utterly useless and took 4 business days.

 

While this representative is most likely completely clueless and Corsair might some day fix the software, I'm not willing to wait for that. I also found my earlier ticket from the system when I bought the Vengeance K70 RGB keyboard and the CUE did not even run for first months and did not recognize the keyboard for almost half a year. To me these two incidents represents a pattern and I would strongly advise to use caution when acquiring Corsair products which require proprietary software to control them.

 

I will return the product to the retailer, demand full refund and file a complaint against Corsair to the consumer authority for false advertisement.

 

Thank you everyone who have assisted me with this ordeal on these forums.

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  • Corsair Employees

Holy hell, I am genuinely sorry for that. While it's true we don't strictly guarantee the Corsair Link Commanders - Mini OR PRO - with non-Corsair fans, it would be awfully asinine for us not to support them and we do try to validate the more popular ones with Commander PRO.

 

With that being said, I'm putting in to have a manual fan setting added as soon as possible.

 

As for your woes with the Vengeance K70 RGB and the CUE software, for that I'm genuinely sorry and unfortunately I can't help you there. For what it's worth, CUE is much, much more stable right now.

 

But I totally get why you're pissed and I would be, too. The best I can do now is to take your feedback, bake it into our software, and try to do better next time.

 

Update.

 

On thursday I received a reply to my ticket.

 

It reads as follows:

 

 

That was utterly useless and took 4 business days.

 

While this representative is most likely completely clueless and Corsair might some day fix the software, I'm not willing to wait for that. I also found my earlier ticket from the system when I bought the Vengeance K70 RGB keyboard and the CUE did not even run for first months and did not recognize the keyboard for almost half a year. To me these two incidents represents a pattern and I would strongly advise to use caution when acquiring Corsair products which require proprietary software to control them.

 

I will return the product to the retailer, demand full refund and file a complaint against Corsair to the consumer authority for false advertisement.

 

Thank you everyone who have assisted me with this ordeal on these forums.

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I hear you guys loud and clear and your logic is sound. So I'll tell you what I'm gonna do.

 

Even though I'm the manager for the Corsair Link software, I can't unilaterally make these decisions. What I CAN do is propose the option to the other product managers, the ones affected, and get their buy in.

 

Out of curiosity, would there be any other "power user" features you'd want to see implemented?

 

Before we start asking for other "power user" features, can we get an update on this one?

 

This thread went dead after drakhorn gave up after being told that the CLCP is only intended to control Corsair products. He got mad, sent everything back, and has not posted on the forum since. The issue of fan detection remains.

 

In our last episode, Corsair Dustin had agreed that perhaps manually setting fan type was not beyond the technical expertise of the average CLCP customer and was going to propose this feature to the development team. Has there been any progress, feedback etc on adding the ability to do this (on a fan by fan basis)? Just wondering. :o:

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